Sony and target renders...
- Thread starter SniperHunter
- Start date
Quantifying beauty is not that hard, most people would agree on what looks good or bad.
But since it is a subjective matter, I'll leave at that. I thought the end result was more than good enough, you think it wasn't. As I said we'll agree to disagree.
But thanks for all the tech information, I learned a lot from yours and other users links and corrected some mistaken assumptions.
phosphor112
Banned
Agreed
TUROK
Member
The Halo 3 beta actually looked really close to the E3 06 trailer. Then they changed the material shader for the armor, for some odd reason.
phosphor112
Banned
Not really. Bungie has never made good looking games. They always ran well and had strong mechanics, but graphics was never their strong suit.
Once 343 took over, Halo 4 looked so much better AND ran at 720p.
Cuban Legend
Member
Like shit?
Lol, even more wrong
Edit: I mean wtf?
http://www.abload.de/img/pgr43dark8dxu.gif[IMG][/QUOTE]*swoon*
OH, will you look at the time- HEY EVERYBODY TIME TO GUESS THIS GAME!
[IMG]http://www.abload.de/img/b1aa8f13-de1b-424b-9eayeyl.jpg
Hint: on a DVD9 in 2007 in native 720p with 2XAA it's...now who was talking about what now?PGR4
Dry, Wet, it don't fucking matter what the weather is, Bizarre Creations did it right YEARS AGO and has since been undefeated in Racing games fidelity.
Sure the gifs look nice, what about in motion? CHECK. THAT. SHIT.
TUROK
Member
Yeah, now there's a massive load of shit that you should feel bad for regurgitating.
Yeah, I know it's a bullshot, but look at the facial detail on Jorge and the intricate modeling for the Spartans. If this doesn't look good to you, then just don't even bother talking to me.
Cuban Legend
Member
I'm not in no war, I just get teared up when PGR4 is mentioned and have the urge to show everyone the glory of it.
RIP Bizarre Creations. Amen.
Evolution_1ne
Banned
umm, so why post it? You killed your own argument before you even made one
TUROK
Member
Because the focus isn't on resolution or AA?
Do you even know what a bullshot is?
Bullshot usually just means added AA or resolution etc. The models are still the same.
BBQMan
Member
They are all off screen recordings :S
Haunted
Member
Just like that Ellen Page .gif. Off screen always makes games look better.
Something about colours and the contrast that makes it pop more (I don't actually know why).
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
katsubento
Member
This is like 2005 all over again. Literally.
I NEED SCISSORS
Banned
Halo 3 - wait for the PC version.
Thing about target renders... They usually have a lot more going on technically than what the generation can put out. None of the PS3 demos were matched from this point of view. But at the same time they are made quite quickly and some can have questionable art like the Killzone video. Everyone can see that the final game looks better, not because it's more advanced, but because the target render looks washed out and the characters are derpy.
dragonbane
Member
Really? I think the actual game comes pretty close. Even the ingame stuff.
Here is a direct feed shot of the same scene (with slight video compression). I'm pretty sure it's running in real time, because the shadow on her face is a bit blocky and the wounds are apparently totally dynamic and change based on how much you screw up. The only way to do that is to render everything in real time.
Some comparison shots from other parts of the same demo that are definitely running in real time. The model looks exactly the same to me.
Lovely Salsa
Banned
No one answered my question if Killzone 2 cgi trailer will be possible in real time on next playstation
We'd need the exact polycount and shader/post processing info that they used to make that trailer.
ionicbluebird
Member
What video is this from?honestly this looks better than any of the ps3 target render trailers.
PairOfFilthySocks
Member
multiplayer.
Not even close. We don't even have a crisp 720p render of the CG render but it's still vastly superior. It's a CG render made by a studio that makes some of the best CGI out there, people. The real-time games had no chance.
Haunted
Member
It dawned on me when I started reading posts on GAF like "what was the PS3 announcement like? I was a small kid when it happened".Shit really?
This gen started for me in 2007, it dosent feel so long ago...
Or "anyone else have huge nostalgia for old games from their childhood? I remember seeing commercials on TV and begging my mom to get me that game for my birthday. Super Mario Galaxy - best gift ever!"
velociraptor
Junior Member
On a technical level, yes, the CG render beats KZ2/KZ3.
However, visually, GG have delivered. The game looks incredibly close IMO. Those pictures nib has posted look jaw-dropping.
Sorry, I should have clarified. I didn't mean that it wasn't real time, just that the source of the gif is an off screen video. It hides prettty much all of the flaws and makes it look ungodly good. The actual game is impressive on its own though.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
I still can never get over the fact that the majority of gamers now didn't start gaming until the Playstation era. I was an adult living on my own with a full time job and a live in girlfriend when Sony's first party games were Sega CD games based on shitty movies like Cliffhanger and Three Ninjas.
The Omega Man
Member
I think it was 2003 or so. My cousin, who was born in 1996, got a PlayStation for Christmas. At some point, it hit me that it was older than he was.
Given how long the PS2 lasted, I wonder how many kids younger than it got one as a gift.
velociraptor
Junior Member
Just how old are you?
I first got a gaming console at the age of 7 (Playstation 1, in 97 I believe)
Wipeout 2097 was my first game.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Intellivision was my first system and I was the manager of a local game store around the time that the SEGA CD first came out.
gutter_trash
Banned
I remember Atari 2600 boxes with screen pics on the back that looked leaps n bounds better than what the actual game looked like LOL
this shit ain't new, heck Nintendo shows Link pre-rendererd footage to try to edge up people onto Wii-U without gameplay footage so the cycle continues.
this shit ain't new, heck Nintendo shows Link pre-rendererd footage to try to edge up people onto Wii-U without gameplay footage so the cycle continues.
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
It would be kinda sad if games didn't surpass target renders in a number of ways since the target render is frozen in time and devs have 7 years to create more efficient and better looking rendering techniques. Killzone demonstrated this well I think.
However, people who believe other aspects will be surpassed or are surpassed are crazy. There are things you can do with a 2 minute pre-rendered sizzle reel that you just can't do in real-time on a console (due to brute force) and you were never going to no matter how much time passed.
However, people who believe other aspects will be surpassed or are surpassed are crazy. There are things you can do with a 2 minute pre-rendered sizzle reel that you just can't do in real-time on a console (due to brute force) and you were never going to no matter how much time passed.
Sony did good to match or exceed the videos shown for the PS1 and PS2, but they really went overboard with the PS3.
You'll have the blind saying they matched, or even exceed, targets such as the KZ video, but this simply isn't the case.
This is completely untrue, unless you mean they don't put narrow corridors and scripted events above open ended gameplay. No matter what, their games have always been gorgeous with some flaws, no different than any other game. Halo 3, and by extension ODST, have some glaring compromises, but how anyone can say their other games aren't great looking is beyond me.
You do realize every time someone posts a ps3 gif, that's essentially the same as a bullshot right? So do you downplay every gif that's I'm sure has been posted in this thread?
You'll have the blind saying they matched, or even exceed, targets such as the KZ video, but this simply isn't the case.
This is completely untrue, unless you mean they don't put narrow corridors and scripted events above open ended gameplay. No matter what, their games have always been gorgeous with some flaws, no different than any other game. Halo 3, and by extension ODST, have some glaring compromises, but how anyone can say their other games aren't great looking is beyond me.
You do realize every time someone posts a ps3 gif, that's essentially the same as a bullshot right? So do you downplay every gif that's I'm sure has been posted in this thread?
phosphor112
Banned
Yeah,... no they don't look that good in game. Not even in cutscene of the game...
This isn't even a thread about 360 games. If you want to talk about that make a new thread.
AbandonedTrolley
Member
My first games console was a Sega Master system I believe with Alex Kidd built in. I previously had a Spectrum 48k before that and various other home computers.
But yeah people that say they have been gaming years and say that their first console was a PS2/3 kinda of make me chuckle and make me feel old too!
dragonbane
Member
It's a demo that runs in real time. It was filmed during gamescom: Click Here
Yeah, I agree with that.RoboPlato said:
Not true at all. Halo 1 and 2 were graphical bests and Halo 2 still looks pretty good today. Halo 3's lighting and environments are still right up there as well, too bad the only thing people remember about Halo 3's graphics were how god awful the faces looked, but reach was a huge improvement in that regard.
Metalmurphy
Member
Why are you reiterating what I already said?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=47264331&postcount=437
Hahahaha. You think people were fooled? 2 freaking years later the game was still charting. The game is about to reach 10 million sales. It was around 7 by the time sales completely die for any other game. GT5 just kept on selling.
That car had a bug, it's been fixed. It's still a standard though.
This car that sounds like a vacuum is not doing it's job when it is sitting next to a premium car, the standard models did not do their job for that matter the standard models didn't deserve the job in the first place.
Not having standard cars would not get you more premium cards. These cars were already done, there was no more modeling done....
For the first 2 months. The people that stick around for the next 2 years are the real fans.[/QUOTE]
Same can be said for blind hate. Your posts have been a perfect example. You started off as any junior troll would. By posting silly and very selective shots.
Forza 2 had cars from Forza 1. Forza 3 had cars from Forza 2. Forza 4 had cars from Forza 2 and 3. Also I very much doubt they actually did dyno every single engine sound.
I'd rather have 1000 cars then 400. They drive just as well, and when it comes down to it, that's what a racing sim is all about.
Game is the best selling Sony game on PS3. They also have the best selling PSP game. Also they are a Japanese developer. Hiring more developers isn't as easy as you think due to the cultural and language barrier.
NFS games stop selling pretty fast.
You also don't seem to care about the actual racing at all.
Case and point.
Above is a picture I personally took of a track from the gold build of GT5, these guys are standing right off the road and are just as bad around the entire map.
Also, this is Forza:
Bwahahaha, you think they did those million poly cars for Auto Vista alone?... Please.
Ahh fuck it, I'm not gonna reply to the rest. Already too big.
Melchiah
Member
Your opinion ≠ everyone else's.
It didn't bother me at all, quite the contrary.
I remember reading the same, and it definitely did give the game a different feel, which wasn't to everyone's liking, particularly the CoD crowd.
Yep, I didn't like how KZ3 handled based on the demo and multiplayer beta, which is why I never bought the game. The same happened with Resistance series, where the sequel was changed so much, that many of the original fans hated it.
I've always find it odd, that the developers seem to listen to the haters more, than those who actually played and liked the game.
HueyFreeman
Banned
I think it had worked generally in their favor in the past but with ps3 it just completely backfired. Even they had just firmly said "these are target renders" it would have been a different story.
That said I think the PR fallout has been sufficient that IF we see any target renders with the ps4 unveiling (which I'm not even sure we will), it will be explicitly stated. They can't afford the stumbling out of the gate that was the ps3s first few years.
That said I think the PR fallout has been sufficient that IF we see any target renders with the ps4 unveiling (which I'm not even sure we will), it will be explicitly stated. They can't afford the stumbling out of the gate that was the ps3s first few years.
Cuban Legend
Member
I disagree with this thought because in the case of developers, this long console lifecycle we've seen has been in their favor. Time has helped them to learn better coding for the hardware while optimizing their own engines.
Of course they also are learning places they can cut corners, and where to effectively use graphical "smoke and mirrors" (ala pre baked lighting, SSAO, and FXAA) in place to replicate lighting/shadowing/IQ fidelity that need to be worked on in order to reach CG target renders.
Think the engine evolution of Halo 3 -> ODST -> Halo Reach -> Halo 4. That engine is starting to show it's age and is using the hardware more now than it was at the beginning of the console lifecycle.
New consoles need to supercede the Dev's hardware/computational-limit expectations because when a new Gen comes out, not everything is known about it and so sloppy coding/engine results from that. And so, the early console games doesn't yield the best results the first time around.
This is where the hardware being more powerful than they need it to be will allow them to be sloppy at first while being able to achieve amazing graphics at the start of the learning curve. Becaue as time passes, they will refine the coding and engines and graphics will become standard to the public to where they can no longer afford to be sloppy and then have to learn to be resourceful to pull every gigaflop flowing through that GPU/CPUs FSB to wow us.
gfx wars are serious business.
-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity
Please. Stop.
Art wise it most certainly did. The target render looks quite poor in fact. The only impressive thing being all the bells and whistles being active at the same time and the polycounts are very high it being a pre-rendered scene.
But at the same time had to make other concessions, like AI that was active in a much smaller radius to the player and weapons and corpses that disappeared quickly and other background details being replaced with static 2d imagery.
The removal of the campaign recording/screenshots etc.
There were certainly some tradeoffs as well as just pure coding cleverness
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Ellen Page GIF, believe it or not, is not an off screen video. I was pretty convinced it was as well, until I saw the video it originated from. I hope someone can find it, but the scene from that GIF also happens literally in the middle of gameplay, when camera zooms onto her when she leans on some car, the second after what's in that GIF you regain control of her character.
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