Sony Interactive Entertainment sues Tencent Holdings for allegedly ripping off 'Horizon' video games; Tencent originally pitched to license the IP

...And Palworld isn't??
Yes, but no. It's shameless what the Palworld dudes are doing, and I don't particularly like it, but there are enough unique mechanics that it at least qualifies as a different game. It's "style," such as it is, is different, too. Though still similar. Look, I don't want to be in the position of defending Palworld. It's enough of a ripoff that it's actually damaging to the Pokemon brand, because Joe and Jane Average are just going to see Pokemon with guns (and zero tact) and think "I don't think that's good for kids."

But this stuff is just straight, cheap, and embarrassing knock-off trash. I mean, that's all this is.
 
idk, i don't see it


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I already addressed this, allowing two extremely similar projects on the market, that would inevitably compete with each other, is a great way to sour relationships with your partners. Think for two seconds on why we're not getting MvC4 anytime soon, for instance.

MvC4 is something different; that was Capcom screwing everything up with Infinite and Marvel being soured on them as a direct result. The NCSoft Horizon game isn't out yet; we haven't even had an official reveal for it as of this time. So the partnership there is just a backend one ATM as no commercial product is actually out.

Odd to say SIE would be stepping over partners if they had two Horizon games from two 3P companies, when they're sort of doing that anyway given NCSoft's Horizon is only one of two; Guerrilla's got their own Horizon game cooking and just because they're 1P doesn't mean the same overlap situation wouldn't unfold. In fact in that case, it's worst for NCSoft because Guerrilla has 1P resource & support advantages!

All of this is a big reach, this won't necessarily impact their venture on China, why would it? Not only have they fostered many relationships with different Chinese companies, but Tencent doesn't particularly the influence you think they have to suddenly make the entire industry look against SIE.

That's in part because Tencent haven't had a case for putting in real effort to grow as a big presence in the Chinese gaming market yet. But they clearly have the resources, they have people in the industry who know how (including Shawn Layden himself as a consultant), and they have "home court" advantage, as it were.

And Tencent wouldn't need to get the entire industry on lock with them to push against SIE, just the Chinese side of the industry. Which, again, that's the market SIE want to grow in the most, quite eagerly so considering they are prioritizing them over other territories for press events and whatnot these days (i.e going to ChinaJoy but skipping Gamescon). If Tencent wanted to generate a sphere of influence to compete against SIE directly in China, they could, and would probably be successful in stifling SIE and PlayStation's growth in the region.

They'd just need a reason to get motivated, and this lawsuit could be the trigger. We've seen too many times in this industry: partners and companies scorned over business betrayals and falling outs is a recipe to create massive disruption in the market. That's what stirred Sony into pushing the PlayStation, for example.

In what way would Tencent be competitive with SIE? In what way they are NOW? Do you seriously think this lawsuit will result into actual company resentment that Tencent will spend the necessary resources and effort into making a console competitor to PlayStation in China (especially when PS isn't exactly huge over there? Come back to fucking reality.

This reads like a classic underestimation of a sleeping giant, same thing companies like SEGA and Nintendo did to Sony back in the mid-90s prior to the PS1's launch in Japan. And in some ways, Tencent today isn't that much different from Sony way back then, meaning they could, similarly, just have a moment where everything clicks and they're bringing about a major disruption in a stagnated industry.

You ask how they're competitive with SIE today? Well for starters they own shares in MANY gaming companies, a lot more than SIE, and own more studios than SIE as well. In companies where both Tencent and Sony Corp have shares, the former tends to have a higher amount. As to what this lawsuit could result in...I'm not saying it's anything of a certainty Tencent gets spurred into competing directly with Sony/SIE in China as a result of the suit (whether they win or lose). I'm just saying, it's silly to write off that possibility, and you don't know if there's a Kutaragi or Ohga-type within Tencent who compels the company to go forward with that intent.

Those people could be there, they could not. But it's dangerous to assume they simply aren't there, period. Which means, yes, spurring Tencent on to compete with them directly in the gaming space is something SIE risks by going with the lawsuit. Again, they are completely right to sue on principle, same as Nintendo was against Palworld's devs. But Pocket Pair's simply a single small-sized 3P dev; in fact the only reason they probably felt confident enough to not buckle completely when the lawsuit came was because a Sony Corp subsidiary partnered with them to expand the IP (ironically enough).

Tencent isn't Pocket Pair; they have real assets, resources and market presence (as a corporation, maybe not so much as a brand), and can afford to take on SIE in court over this. It could get pretty ugly but, considering the ramifications it could have in China, it feels like SIE have more to lose if in fact they lose this case. That's something I want to put out there.
 
Lmao even the music sound the same. I watched the announcement trailer on the phone and my youngest one heard the sound but didn't see anything:
- Is it Horizon?
 
Honestly my opinion is the same as with Palworld. Both have the right to exist.

It's a survival game with an artstyle that is similar to a successful game from 8+ years ago. After that much time you can't pretend for IP damage when your ideas have already been out there and already made all the money it could have by being the first execution of it.

Even if the robots are near identical if you squint your eyes, you could say the same thing about plenty of other genres and trades, like comic book heroes or auto manufacturers. In essence it is still a different game with it's own distinctive differences. Just like you could say hundreds of NES RPGs look near identical to Dragon Quest in both style and pixel art, but it doesn't mean they should get sued for it. Or else you create a chilling effect that would destroy the chances of a fantastic derivative game like Final Fantasy to exist at all.

Even Nintendo wasn't dumb enough to use that angle against Palworld (though gameplay patents are just as bad and scummy in a lot of ways).
 
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Attempted comedy?
Did you really have to ask?

Also, anyone hating Nintendo for suing Palworld but not hating Sony over this is a hypocrite. I get it, I'd rather play as pretty Aloy too but you have to be based. Luckily for me I don't play as Aloy or Pokemon as I don't like those games, especially Horizon. Horizon 2 was a stinker and it had the best graphics ever. Pokemon got shit graphics but some decent ideas and fun gameplay loop. It is what it is.
 
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Did you really have to ask?

Also, anyone hating Nintendo for suing Palworld but not hating Sony over this is a hypocrite. I get it, I'd rather play as pretty Aloy too but you have to be based. Luckily for me I don't play as Aloy or Pokemon as I don't like those games, especially Horizon. Horizon 2 was a stinker and it had the best graphics ever. Pokemon got shit graphics but some decent ideas and fun gameplay loop. It is what it is.
> Corp vs one and half men

> Corp vs Corp

Looks the same to me
 
Did they pitch to use the license for this game? Seems weird, I can see them wanting the license to make some mobile game or other, but they wanted to make a mainline Horizon sequel?
 
Some key art looks similar.

The games themselves are extremely different.

Sony will waste money just to obviously lose this pointless lawsuit lol.

Im actually rooting for tencent here just for the hilarity.
 
MvC4 is something different; that was Capcom screwing everything up with Infinite and Marvel being soured on them as a direct result. The NCSoft Horizon game isn't out yet; we haven't even had an official reveal for it as of this time. So the partnership there is just a backend one ATM as no commercial product is actually out.
Infinte was literally Marvel fucking over Capcom, and the only reason there isn't a new one coming anytime soon is because Marvel is aware of how having two Marvel tag fighters on the market would be detrimental for both SIE and Capcom.
Odd to say SIE would be stepping over partners if they had two Horizon games from two 3P companies, when they're sort of doing that anyway given NCSoft's Horizon is only one of two; Guerrilla's got their own Horizon game cooking and just because they're 1P doesn't mean the same overlap situation wouldn't unfold.
Both aiming two completely different markets as Guerrilla's is essentially a high-end console project, while NCSoft's is, first and foremost, a mobile venture targeting the Asian audience.
In fact in that case, it's worst for NCSoft because Guerrilla has 1P resource & support advantages!
What does having ""1P resource & support advantages"" even mean?
That's in part because Tencent haven't had a case for putting in real effort to grow as a big presence in the Chinese gaming market yet. But they clearly have the resources, they have people in the industry who know how (including Shawn Layden himself as a consultant), and they have "home court" advantage, as it were.
They are a big presence in the Chinese gaming market already. They're a software provider, they don't belong in any position to directly compete with SIE on any front.
And Tencent wouldn't need to get the entire industry on lock with them to push against SIE, just the Chinese side of the industry. Which, again, that's the market SIE want to grow in the most, quite eagerly so considering they are prioritizing them over other territories for press events and whatnot these days (i.e going to ChinaJoy but skipping Gamescon). If Tencent wanted to generate a sphere of influence to compete against SIE directly in China, they could, and would probably be successful in stifling SIE and PlayStation's growth in the region.
And I ask, how exactly would Tencent manage to push the Chinese video gaming industry against SIE? Why would any Chinese gaming company have any interest on being part of such moves? What's the benefit on cutting relationships with SIE just because they acted against Tencent?
They'd just need a reason to get motivated, and this lawsuit could be the trigger. We've seen too many times in this industry: partners and companies scorned over business betrayals and falling outs is a recipe to create massive disruption in the market. That's what stirred Sony into pushing the PlayStation, for example.
Tencent has literally no reason to spend the effort on creating a competitor to a very niche console on the Chinese market.
This reads like a classic underestimation of a sleeping giant, same thing companies like SEGA and Nintendo did to Sony back in the mid-90s prior to the PS1's launch in Japan. And in some ways, Tencent today isn't that much different from Sony way back then, meaning they could, similarly, just have a moment where everything clicks and they're bringing about a major disruption in a stagnated industry.

You ask how they're competitive with SIE today? Well for starters they own shares in MANY gaming companies, a lot more than SIE, and own more studios than SIE as well. In companies where both Tencent and Sony Corp have shares, the former tends to have a higher amount. As to what this lawsuit could result in...I'm not saying it's anything of a certainty Tencent gets spurred into competing directly with Sony/SIE in China as a result of the suit (whether they win or lose). I'm just saying, it's silly to write off that possibility, and you don't know if there's a Kutaragi or Ohga-type within Tencent who compels the company to go forward with that intent.
Completely different circumstances that making the comparison is ultimately pointless. The only thing that Tencent could do in retaliation is to directly push their Horizon knock-off as a direct competitor to SIE's own Horizon mobile game, and it isn't nearly as catastrophic as you make anything out to be.
Those people could be there, they could not. But it's dangerous to assume they simply aren't there, period. Which means, yes, spurring Tencent on to compete with them directly in the gaming space is something SIE risks by going with the lawsuit. Again, they are completely right to sue on principle, same as Nintendo was against Palworld's devs. But Pocket Pair's simply a single small-sized 3P dev; in fact the only reason they probably felt confident enough to not buckle completely when the lawsuit came was because a Sony Corp subsidiary partnered with them to expand the IP (ironically enough).

Tencent isn't Pocket Pair; they have real assets, resources and market presence (as a corporation, maybe not so much as a brand), and can afford to take on SIE in court over this. It could get pretty ugly but, considering the ramifications it could have in China, it feels like SIE have more to lose if in fact they lose this case. That's something I want to put out there.
We all know Tencent is huge, there's still nothing to take from this because Tencent will never ever have any reason to directly compete with PlayStation (not SIE, PlayStation), SIE's primary business.
 
I mean everyone can see it's a complete rip-off, but I think it will be really hard for Sony to provide that they are actually stole something. "This looks very similar" is not enough evidence at all.

Then again, I am sure Sony wouldn't do this, if they wouldn't have done enough research already and think they have enough strong evidence.
 
I mean everyone can see it's a complete rip-off, but I think it will be really hard for Sony to provide that they are actually stole something. "This looks very similar" is not enough evidence at all.

Then again, I am sure Sony wouldn't do this, if they wouldn't have done enough research already and think they have enough strong evidence.
If this is allowed. What stops a China dev from copying Mario down to the core, then call him Nario and have an N on the cap, redhead, full beard instead of mustache, gray overall, eat broccoli to go big, go through brown/rusty pipes?
 
It's a survival game with an artstyle that is similar to a successful game from 8+ years ago. After that much time you can't pretend for IP damage when your ideas have already been out there and already made all the money it could have by being the first execution of it.
lol what? eg Mario and Mickey Mouse are older and just copying it can not be considered "nice" just because they already had their run.

Just judging from that trailer I kinda wonder why Sony declined cooperation. It looks decent and since Forbidden West suffered from a convoluted weird story, imho, that parallel take, what was happening somewhere else in the world (or whatever its story now still is) might have been actually better. Expanded the universe meaningful.
I guess it might be a business rift, not agreeing on the terms and now Sony is pissed because Tencent continued anyway, while tencent is pissed because they put in the effort and might have had positive affirmation in some stage, just no final contract. Sorta like the SNES Sony CD drive... working together until one party said no, and the other then said: fuck them, we make it anyway.
 
There have been plenty of cartoon mice and similar antropomorphic animals in that same style in other productions with similar premises.
You wanna tell me that Feivel Mousekewitz, Stuart Little, Remy (Ratatouille) look similar to Mickey? lol? Milton Mouse did, until Disney knocked on their doors.
Even Remy, without some clothes the above all have, isn't looking just like an actual animal would.
But I just read that original Mickey is too old since last year, so everyone can now copy his original design. That is a time frame that seems reasonable, a lot longer than just a couple years, around a full lifetime for the artist.
 
You wanna tell me that Feivel Mousekewitz, Stuart Little, Remy (Ratatouille) look similar to Mickey? lol? Milton Mouse did, until Disney knocked on their doors.
Even Remy, without some clothes the above all have, isn't looking just like an actual animal would.
But I just read that original Mickey is too old since last year, so everyone can now copy his original design. That is a time frame that seems reasonable, a lot longer than just a couple years, around a full lifetime for the artist.
I see what you did there. You came in ready to give that specific answer and I dived in head first like a moron, when in fact Disney is notoriously known to be litigious and abusive of copyright laws. Making it the worst possible example in this case. Fair enough, you got me on that (even tho mascot characters in an extremely similar artstyle still came to exist and be successful, most of those aren't mice but other small animals (Felix the Cat, Sonic the Hedgehog, and many more))

But then, games like Bloodstained (and many others), 20XX (and many others), and hundreds of Metroidvanias like Axiom Verge, and countless others in other genres, could easily fall afoul of such drastic point of view, since some of those games could look mistakenly similar to their respective inspirations. Would you have it that they all get sued and destroyed?

What about the books, games and movies that are very blatantly inspired by the works of JRR Tolkien, often with the same races, character and villain archetypes down to a T (and often matching the same physical descriptions), would you destroy all of it too?


Edited: remembered mascot characters in the same artstyle as Mickey were everywhere and many are still around. Silly me.
 
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