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[FunkMiller]

 

[Midn1ght]

 

[vaibhavpisal]

I actually think they were. At least Shu was.

News - Game Dev - Hardware - Shuhei Yoshida: “Indies will take the risks” on PlayStation VR 2

Speaking at GI Live 2022 on Wednesday – attended by VGC – PlayStation Head of Independent Developer Initiative Shuhei Yoshida discussed the upcoming virtual reality hardware and where he thinks indie games will fit in its lineup when it releases next year. “There are big games like Horizon...

www.neogaf.com

I thought he was propping indie devs since he oversees them.

Maybe he was dropping a hint that Playstation studios will offer limited support to potential buyers. Probably not good for his job to accept it publicly.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

They should’ve been honest about it from beginning that they won’t support it.

And should’ve launched as ps5/pc peripheral.

The PSVR2 has been on the market for a year and a half and Sony has released GT7 and Horizon Call of the Mountain on it. Two big AAA games. Bigger than anything they released on PSVR1.

Why did it need to launch with PC support from day 1?

If that were the case then it wouldn't necessitate an adapter.

Every PCVR headset on the market requires an adapter, even the Quest 3 if it is going to get proper PD while using it for PCVR. Can people just admit that they don't know what they're talking about

 

[Punished Miku]

I thought he was propping indie devs since he oversees them.

Maybe he was dropping a hint that Playstation studios will offer limited support to potential buyers. Probably not good for his job to accept it publicly.

Yeah, could be interpreted either way I guess.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I thought he was propping indie devs since he oversees them.

Maybe he was dropping a hint that Playstation studios will offer limited support to potential buyers. Probably not good for his job to accept it publicly.

LOL first you say they should have been up front and then you see they were up front and you say, that was bad for his job.

You're genuinely dishonest.

 

[ManaByte]

Designed for PC...requires a $60 add-on to use on PC.

 

[Resenge]

Pimax pc connection.

Valve Index pc connection

Vive breakway box

Sony PSVR2 to PS5 connection.

Not sure what people expected when a default PC needs extra hardware for the connection, anyone who has experience with wired headsets knows that it's not as simple as plugging 1 wire in.

I was impressed with the one wire setup on the PSVR2 when it was first announced tbh, it's obvious that there has to be some extra hardware for PC connection, just like other PC specific headsets use.

 

[Roxkis_ii]

If it was made with pc in mind, seems like it would have increased sells to mention that on release.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

LOL first you say they should have been up front and then you see they were up front and you say, that was bad for his job.

You're genuinely dishonest.

Wut, it makes perfect sense if you see all the posts.

Punishedmiku pointed out that they did tried to beware potential buyers after I assumed they were being dishonest.

 

[Punished Miku]

Wut, it makes perfect sense if you see all the posts.

Punishedmiku pointed out that they did tried to beware potential buyers after I assumed they were being dishonest.

Yeah, I don't get it. We were just having a polite conversation. Very strange reaction.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Wut, it makes perfect sense if you see all the posts.

Punishedmiku pointed out that they did tried to beware potential buyers after I assumed they were being dishonest.

And your response to finding that information out was, oh he probably shouldn't have done that.

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

If that were the case then it wouldn't necessitate an adapter.

The adapter is a pure necessity because current GPUs dropped Virtual Link support. It’s actually native on RTX20xx series. Blame Nvidia.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

The adapter is a pure necessity because current GPUs dropped Virtual Link support. It’s actually native on RTX20xx series. Blame Nvidia.

The only reason why people are bringing this up is because the PSVR2 isn't wireless.

Every PCVR headset requires an adapter.

The biggest difference here is that the PS5 doesn't require more than a cable because it delivers 12 volts, but if the PSVR3 (if it ever releases) were to be wireless, it would also require an adapter to charge off of the PS5.

 

[GHG]

The adapter is a pure necessity because current GPUs dropped Virtual Link support. It’s actually native on RTX20xx series. Blame Nvidia.

Again, virtual link isn't and doesn't have to be necessary. If they had designed it around PC use from the start then they would have an out of the box solution like all other PC VR headset manufacturers do.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

And your response to finding that information out was, oh he probably shouldn't have done that.

This is what Shu Yoshida said:

“There are big games like Horizon: Call of the Mountain and Resident Evil Village and yes, they’re amazing, but it’s the indies, in my mind, that really take the risk because they want to make games on VR.”

See the bold part. They want to make games on VR.

How do you read this?

I feel he is implying AAA studios dont want to make games on it. Pretty clear cut. But wont clarify it.

Its a warning in disguise.

 

[willothedog]

The adapter is a pure necessity because current GPUs dropped Virtual Link support. It’s actually native on RTX20xx series. Blame Nvidia.

Blame Nvidia for removing the port that nobody made hardware for

 

[Mibu no ookami]

This is what Shu Yoshida said:

“There are big games like Horizon: Call of the Mountain and Resident Evil Village and yes, they’re amazing, but it’s the indies, in my mind, that really take the risk because they want to make games on VR.”

See the bold part. They want to make games on VR.

How do you read this?

I feel he is implying AAA studios dont want to make games on it. Pretty clear cut. But wont clarify it.

Its a warning in disguise.

It's not a warning in disguise.

It's simply a highlight of reality to say that indies are more bought in on VR and that their investment in VR is more inherently risky, which is kind of obvious.

I actually think that combining Call of the Mountain and Village doesn't make a lot of sense. One game is a VR game and the other is a VR mode.

Creating VR modes isn't especially risky. Modders do this all the time and more games should have VR modes as that is probably the future until VR is inherently self sustainable.

But none of that is what is important here, which is you saying one thing and then saying another.

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

Blame Nvidia for removing the port that nobody made hardware for

Every PCVR headset requires an adapter.

It is also worth noting that Oculus solution is not an output but a cpu-heavy packed streaming which quite wonky in heavy games even via the cable.

The funny thing is we had this conversation like two times already, and Sony is not lying. Adapter is here to compensate for a missing open standard on modern PCs. Every standard used in PSVR2 is open, unlike custom usb and breakout box in PSVR 1.

 

[Three]

Again, virtual link isn't and doesn't have to be necessary. If they had designed it around PC use from the start then they would have an out of the box solution like all other PC VR headset manufacturers do.

All other PC headsets have a splitter cable or breakout box that's in the box but then they would be getting PS5 users to pay for something they don't need. Because they do it separate doesn't mean it wasn't designed for support with the same box as other headsets from the beginning.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Yeah, we can believe them

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Blame Nvidia for removing the port that nobody made hardware for

You think two years is enough time to make that determination?

The PSVR2 was built around VirtualLink, which is why it requires 12V and how it works with PS5.

My guess is that if VirtualLink hadn't been abandoned, PSVR2 would have come to PC sooner, maybe even at launch. They probably sold far fewer units than they had planned to recoup the R&D budget, because they had initially planned on selling to PC users sooner and having a larger footprint.

Then the hope would have been to drop the price of the PSVR2 sooner having reached break even. Because it didn't and because studios like Firesprite underperformed with Call of The Moutain, the call was made to decrease VR expenditure.

Pretty similar to the delays with Microsoft and Activision causing a shift in strategy as a result of not being able to prop up the Xbox Series with Activision games earlier and you cross over a period where it's difficult to create momentum.

This PC adapter is somewhat of a soft product relaunch, but it still isn't feature rich and the price hasn't officially dropped, and there are no major VR games officially in the pipeline... Leaves a lot of questions for the future of PSVR2 and it obviously doesn't look good.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

All other PC headsets have a splitter cable or breakout box that's in the box but then they would be getting PS5 users to pay for something they don't need. Because they do it separate doesn't mean it wasn't designed for support with the same box as other headsets from the beginning.

These people are struggling to understand that PS5 works via VirtualLink and would have worked with VirtualLink on PC. So why would you include the adapter with the headset when it isn't designed to work with one? So of course the adapter is separate now.

It's not Sony's fault that VirtualLink was not offered on newer video cards and thus did not get the requisite market penetration.

The standard largely died before the PS5 even launched...

As for the adapter not being available from day 1, Sony had to create the adapter, test it, produce it, and market it AND create the software to support it.

They've done that within a year and a half on the market... That's not bad, assuming it works without a hitch.

I think some people also think that Sony (PlayStation) has like unlimited software and hardware engineers and that they can just do things overnight. Things get complex, especially when hardware is involved.

 

[yurinka]

Then why is it missing features on the PC?

The PCVR games published until now were made for VR devices that don't have these features.

In order to use unique features Sony has to publish stuff for devs that allow them use them, and after that devs have to update the old games to support these features.

Or more likely, to make other future games that use them because that implementation could take more time and money than it would be worth it for them.

If it's hardware and that hardware was designed to work with PC then why can't you just plug that hardware straight into the PC, download drivers from Sony, and use it? Why do you need to buy a PC adapter?

Maybe because their priority was and is PS5, so kept PC as something secondary.

Why do you need to have Bluetooth on your PC?

I assume to use the controllers.

 

[Josemayuste]

Pay Valve, release Half - Life Alyx on PSVR2 for PS5, done, there you have it, the thing would sell millions (I'd have bought a PSVR2 myself for that game for sure)

 

[Outlier]

Question is: Since PSVR2 uses USB-C shouldn't be able to connect directly to a PC USB-C port?
I'd think this'd be a software issue more than hardware.

 

[GHG]

All other PC headsets have a splitter cable or breakout box that's in the box but then they would be getting PS5 users to pay for something they don't need. Because they do it separate doesn't mean it wasn't designed for support with the same box as other headsets from the beginning.

Both my oculus quest 2 and 3 came with no such thing.

My lenovo WMR headset also came with no such thing.

 

[RickMasters]

Then they should have released it day and date on PC. Or this just another case of them thinking they can treat PC gamers like second tier citizens to their Playstation console audience…..

 

[schaft0620]

Didn't the adapter come out today? I don't see anything on PS Direct or Best Buy.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

If it's hardware and that hardware was designed to work with PC then why can't you just plug that hardware straight into the PC, download drivers from Sony, and use it? Why do you need to buy a PC adapter? Why do you need to have Bluetooth on your PC?

One of the most wildly ignorant posts I've seen on a gaming forum and that is saying a lot.

• Because video card manufacturers removed VirtualLink from their video cards
• There isn't a video card on the market that takes a single USB-C cable and charges while you play and the PSVR2 doesn't have a battery because it isn't a wireless headset
• The PC adapter is a solution for the lack of VirtualLink on the vast majority of video cards on the market
• You need Bluetooth for the controllers just like you need Bluetooth to use Bluetooth gamepads... You can't be serious... Absolutely unserious question

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Then they should have released it day and date on PC. Or this just another case of them thinking they can treat PC gamers like second tier citizens to their Playstation console audience…..

How many video cards supported VirtualLink a year and a half ago? And if you're saying they should have had the adapter ready a year and a half ago, you don't know how real life works. Someone actually needs to design and test the hardware and software, which wasn't initially planned because when they were designing this, they thought people would have VirtualLink video cards.

Didn't the adapter come out today? I don't see anything on PS Direct or Best Buy.

Tomorrow.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Then they should have released it day and date on PC. Or this just another case of them thinking they can treat PC gamers like second tier citizens to their Playstation console audience…..

Not sure who will buy this on PC now, when PS VR players themselves are treated like 3rd class citizens.

I see this as upgrading current owners to second class from third class.

 

[Resenge]

Both my oculus quest 2 and 3 came with no such thing.

My lenovo WMR headset also came with no such thing.

Quest 2 and 3 are not native PCVR. They are streaming a video through the USB.

Oculus Rift S didnt either, it was just a USB and Display port cable but it was super unreliable with USB ports.

The majority native PCVR headsets do have some sort multiple wired connection.

 

[Fess]

That's assuming Sony keeps PSVR2 at the same price, which we see is not likely.

What's likely is that the PSVR2 is a significantly cheaper headset than the Quest 3 and if we see Sony officially drop the price of the PSVR2 and it supports both PC and PS5 there is a decent chance we see movement in the VR market share.

It'll be interesting to see what the market for the PSVR2 is at 300-350 and the adapter at 60 (which should also hopefully come down in price after a bit.

I think at a combined price of 350 (300 for the PSVR2 and 50 for the adapter) it's a pretty compelling PC headset, especially if the features are added in later.

Yeah at $300 it’s interesting but we’re not there yet, it could happen but Quest 3 could drop in price as well.

 

[Holammer]

Let people install linux on the PS5 and they can say it was designed to be PC from the beginning.

 

[Fess]

Read this:



Funny, this thread shows that a lot of people have no experience with VR and are just here for the drive by posts.

People don’t know shit about VR.

I’ve had VR long enough to drop it because of a lacking games library. But I’ve never experienced eye tracking, headset haptics and HDR. That’s not there on PC VR?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Yeah at $300 it’s interesting but we’re not there yet, it could happen but Quest 3 could drop in price as well.

I don't see Quest 3 dropping in price anytime soon. Meta is already taking a massive beating on VR as is.

Quest 3 has a lot of expense to it that the PSVR2 doesn't have, internal battery, snapdragon XR2+ vs XR2, 8gb ram, onboard storage....

 

[Three]

Both my oculus quest 2 and 3 came with no such thing.

My lenovo WMR headset also came with no such thing.

The Oculus/Meta Quest 2 and 3 ironically weren't designed for PC they were designed to be standalone headsets with less than ideal PC compatibility hence why they use video compression and not enough power to use it continuously from PC. Look at other actual headsets designed for PC like the Vive, Valve Index, Pimax Crystal, pretty much any PC headset. They come with separate HDMI, USB and power cable splits or hubs. Which Lenovo WMR are you referring to? If it's the Explorer it came with split cables for HDMI, USB, headphones:

 

[FoxMcChief]

Yeah, ok, lol

 

[FoxMcChief]

Aren’t features missing from PC use? That doesn’t sound like it was designed for PC from the beginning.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

BREAKING: Phil Spencer announces retirement from Xbox

ALSO BREAKING: Phil Spencer announces new position as 3rd co-CEO at Sony Interactive Entertainment

 

[octos]

Pretty sure it wouldn't require an adapter if that were the case.
About missing features - I hope it's temporary and that a driver update will solve this!

 

[Mr Moose]

Yeah, that's why you need an adapter for it and half of the stuff doesn't work.

 

[Crm114]

Of course it was, but only as a back up plan in case it was struggling sales wise.

 

[Crm114]

Pretty sure it wouldn't require an adapter if that were the case.
About missing features - I hope it's temporary and that a driver update will solve this!

Sony's not stupid they take a lot of moves out of apples play book. Why not make money off an extra accessory?

 

[analog_future]

Then why is it missing features on the PC?

PlayStation VR2’s PC adapter hits this August, with missing features

You can play Steam games on it, but many of the modern tricks are disabled.

arstechnica.com

Because the software on PC markets didn't have these features. Not Sony's fault.

If PSVR2 takes off then maybe the software developers would actually put the features in. Sony can't magically add features to games that never meant to have those features. You might as well demand a Colour TV to retroactively colour in a black and white video recording.

This is hardware, not software. Just because the hardware has features doesn't mean it can work retroactively on older software.

Sony COULD force all software that works on it to have been certified by Sony first, which is what happens with PSVR games. But that would mean the existing PCVR software wouldn't be allowed to run and thus defeats the purpose.

Go bug your VR software developers to add the missing features. This is NOT Sony's job.

A lot of clueless posts here. PSVR2 uses open PC standards like Bluetooth and VirtualLink. It’s not Sony who killed VL on PC, you know.

Yes, totally Sony's plan all along! That's why they added PSVR 2 to PC 2 years late with little fanfare and zero first party software to take advantage of these missing features that you're blaming PC devs for.

 

[Three]

Yes, totally Sony's plan all along! That's why they added PSVR 2 to PC 2 years late

Hey, that doesn't stop people who are certain from the getgo that PC ports are planned to come.

 

[Pharaoh 117]

Hard to believe when the features that makes PSVR2 stand out doesn't work on PC. It totally killed my interest on it.

 

[reinking]

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Hey, that doesn't stop people who are certain from the getgo that PC ports are planned to come.

I mean doesn't it make sense to port Call of the Mountain to PC since it underperformed on PS5. That's a life line for Firesprite to get some additional cash.