Support NeoGAF

[Neofire]

So they intended to throw the PS5 support under the bus from the beginning

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

The only relevant statistic would be the number of Quest 2/3 users that use it on PC.

More than once

 

[MarkyG]

 

[danklord]

Just snagged mine off Gamestop!

 

[rodrigolfp]

The only relevant statistic would be the number of Quest 2/3 users that use it on PC.

Let's say the Steam user count is 132 Million and the VR users equals roughly 2% of that number. That's about 2.6 Million users that use VR on Steam. Now based on the stats that 56% of those users are using a Quest 2 or 3 then that means about 1.5 Million. Combined Quest 2 and 3 sales are roughly 22 Million.

So roughly 6-7% of Quest users use it on PC (at least one time).

Steam VR is not the only VR on PC plus hardware survey is optional.

 

[Ozriel]

The only relevant statistic would be the number of Quest 2/3 users that use it on PC.

Let's say the Steam user count is 132 Million and the VR users equals roughly 2% of that number. That's about 2.6 Million users that use VR on Steam. Now based on the stats that 56% of those users are using a Quest 2 or 3 then that means about 1.5 Million. Combined Quest 2 and 3 sales are roughly 22 Million.

So roughly 6-7% of Quest users use it on PC (at least one time).

The percentage of overall Quest users on PCVR is irrelevant to this conversation, though. What’s more relevant is the percentage of SteamVR users that are on Quest, which the survey provides.

 

[ArtHands]

...unless you factor in the pancake lenses that the Quest 3 uses vs the fresnel lens on PSVR, in which case I'd still take Quest 3 any day.

Quest 3 has no mura, no blurry edges, better colour contrast, as well as no blue and red borders too

 

[nemiroff]

Quest 3 has no mura, no blurry edges, better colour contrast, as well as no blue and red borders too

And it also has 100% of its sub pixels intact via RGB stripe against the notoriously hated pentile diamond layout with only 66%.

 

[ReBurn]

And it also has 100% of its sub pixels intact via RGB stripe against the notoriously hated pentile diamond layout with only 66%.

 

[Wonko_C]

The only relevant statistic would be the number of Quest 2/3 users that use it on PC.

Let's say the Steam user count is 132 Million and the VR users equals roughly 2% of that number. That's about 2.6 Million users that use VR on Steam. Now based on the stats that 56% of those users are using a Quest 2 or 3 then that means about 1.5 Million. Combined Quest 2 and 3 sales are roughly 22 Million.

So roughly 6-7% of Quest users use it on PC (at least one time).

Ouch. PSVR1 last reported sales were 5 million in 2019. (Likely they broke the 6 million mark in 2020-2021). No wonder why games are developed on standalone first.

 

[CitizenKratos]

Quest 3 has no mura, no blurry edges, better colour contrast, as well as no blue and red borders too

PSVR2 has much better color contrast. Look up VR enthusiast reactions.

Edit. Just one example. 38 min in…

 

[Mibu no ookami]

PSVR2 has much better color contrast. Look up VR enthusiast reactions.

Edit. Just one example. 38 min in…

That the adapter isn't even required is more evidence of their statement that it was originally designed for PC.

All you need is VirtualLink. Once again, it was not Sony's fault that video card manufacturers removed VirtualLink.

One thing they should have probably done is set the Bluetooth to pair with the headset rather than the device. I'm sure that was a consideration, but it might also make for a more difficult setup.

It'll be very interesting to see if Sony releases a new model PSVR2 that is wireless. If I'm Nishino and I want to stay in VR, I wouldn't wait for PSVR3. There are a lot of things they should have done with PlayStation Link making it a lot more like W1 but advancing it further to include a direct wireless connection for devices like Portal, PSVR, e.t.c. Would have given them a huge advantage in the gaming space.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

The only relevant statistic would be the number of Quest 2/3 users that use it on PC.

Let's say the Steam user count is 132 Million and the VR users equals roughly 2% of that number. That's about 2.6 Million users that use VR on Steam. Now based on the stats that 56% of those users are using a Quest 2 or 3 then that means about 1.5 Million. Combined Quest 2 and 3 sales are roughly 22 Million.

So roughly 6-7% of Quest users use it on PC (at least one time).

Sir, this is what we call good analysis and why people were somewhat silly to say Sony needed to make this work Day 1 on PC.

There is a market there to be sure, but in terms of selling a profitable headset, there really isn't this huge impetus.

If Sony wants to create a successful PSVR3, it needs to be able to play stand-alone VR games. So they probably need to release two versions one with onboard storage and ram and one without.

If you compare VR to the original video game generations, it's growth path is well established.

The first generation of gaming started in 1972 and lasted until 1983. VR is advancing much faster than that. Gaming didn't hit its first mainstream numbers until the NES. While the Atari 2600 sold 30 million units, the NES sold nearly double that. 17 years after the Atari 2600 we had our first 100 million selling console launch in the PS1.

2016 is really ground zero. We're only 8 years into VR. The next generation of VR will likely be a sea change for the technology.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

So I've tried PS R2 on my second rendering rig with RTX 2080 today directly through USB-C on the card (without any adapter) and with BT on the mobo.

It works natively and flawlessly with SteamVR. So I can see no lies. Any native VirtualLink port or adapter should work with PSVR2, you don't need to buy Sony's adapter.

Sony clearly designed this thinking that VirtualLink would be a standard on video cards moving forward and were blindsided when manufacturers decided to cut it out.

They pushed to design their own VirtualLink adapter, but it's not as if that instantly jumps to the front of the priority list. You have to design, produce, and test the adapter and the software that will go with it on PC.

Meanwhile, you have people complaining that they didn't test enough bluetooth adapters..., something that is damn near impossible to do. The market is saturated with different adapters and even if something is Bluetooth 4.0, there is no real guarantee that it means specific requirements.

Anyways, I fully expect the PSVR2 to significantly drop permanently at or before black Friday.

Yes, there aren’t a lot of VR games that support eye tracking on PC, for instance.

However the (more expensive) VR headsets with eye tracking, *do* continue to support that feature with the few PC games that support it (eg flight sims).

What’s Sony’s excuse?

There could be a multitude of reasons. Two off the top of my head would be

• They need to build out support for it in the driver and test the driver out
• They rather people buy the headset for PS5 rather than PC

My guess is the other features eventually come via an updated driver. If they release GT7 on PC and want people to be able to play it with PSVR2, there could be an update in line with the games release to support those features.

People continue to forget that this headset has only been on the market for 18 months and it has had official PC support for 1 day. The more people buy it to use on PC, which they can get solid metrics around for the number of people using PSVR2 via Steam, they can ascertain whether to put resources on enabling the rest of the features.

 

[Snake29]

 

[Three]

Why would they want this statement out there, in light of core features not being supported on PC. If they play it as PC support being a bonus, then it is justifiable. If they want to play it as "this was the plan all along," then it makes them look incompetent. As I didn't believe they are incompetent, I call BS as well.

I don't think it's incompetence in that these "core features"* are missing from almost all other PC headsets too. They don't have things like eyetracking and head haptics. The dualsense was built for PC support and bluetooth connection too but it also has "missing features" on PC compared to PS5 that most PC controllers don't have anyway. These boil down to mostly software support in games and apps not being there on PC rather than the hardware (often some modder gets some things working in some way like DS4Windows). Still, "this support was the plan all along" isn't the same as "we expect every feature to work like on the PS5"

*Core features: what the fuck, I thought you were saying these weren't core to the VR experience just a few days ago:

... I already gave my sentiment regarding the potential quality of the experience without eye tracking, headset haptics, and OLED with HDR displays. The games would still be immersive and top notch.

This was when you were asking for cheaper and putting it up against the Quest alternative I guess.

 

[onQ123]

It clearly was but they did not want to to sell these to PC only people at a loss with no return from software.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

It clearly was but they did not want to to sell these to PC only people at a loss with no return from software.

I think it is clear that they were not taking a loss selling this at 550 dollars.

Almost certainly they didn't support PC at launch because the market for VirtualLink fell through, so they decided to push back the PC software and drivers prioritization and instead prioritize other projects that were more pressing and probably related to the PS5 more. Things like Dual Sense PC Driver, PS Link, PS PC Overlay, PS Portal updates, e.t.c.

They announced they would release this adapter in June (2-month window). They announced that they were testing this in February. They probably had a final product 3-6 months earlier than that.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I don't think it's incompetence in that these "core features"* are missing from almost all other PC headsets too. They don't have things like eyetracking and head haptics. The dualsense was built for PC support and bluetooth connection too but it also has "missing features" on PC compared to PS5 that most PC controllers don't have anyway. These boil down to mostly software support in games and apps not being there on PC rather than the hardware (often some modder gets some things working in some way like DS4Windows). Still, "this support was the plan all along" isn't the same as "we expect every feature to work like on the PS5"

*Core features: what the fuck, I thought you were saying these weren't core to the VR experience just a few days ago:



This was when you were asking for cheaper and putting it up against the Quest alternative I guess.

Controller:DualSense - PCGamingWiki PCGW - bugs, fixes, crashes, mods, guides and improvements for every PC game

www.pcgamingwiki.com

When you look at this, I think it starts to make a bit more sense.

Some of these features might need to be enabled via firmware update and some of these features might require specific games to support them as well.

I think over the next year or so we'll have to pay a lot of attention to Gran Turismo 7, Horizon Call of the Mountain, Until Dawn, and Astro Bot.

 

[MarkMe2525]

I don't think it's incompetence in that these "core features"* are missing from almost all other PC headsets too. They don't have things like eyetracking and head haptics. The dualsense was built for PC support and bluetooth connection too but it also has "missing features" on PC compared to PS5 that most PC controllers don't have anyway. These boil down to mostly software support in games and apps not being there on PC rather than the hardware (often some modder gets some things working in some way like DS4Windows). Still, "this support was the plan all along" isn't the same as "we expect every feature to work like on the PS5"

*Core features: what the fuck, I thought you were saying these weren't core to the VR experience just a few days ago:

I worded in a regrettable way, differentiators would be better. Regardless, we shouldn't conflate "core to the current value proposition" with "core necessity to enjoy an experience", and my poor word choice may hint that I was doing that. I did not intend to.

I do recognize that there would almost no software that would be able to support these features "out of the box", I still find it bizarre that Sony would release such a product without giving devs the tools to change that.