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[zedinen]

.2. Units shipped is defenitly units sold

Yes

Revenues from hardware are recognized when obligations are satisfied by transferring control to the retailer / distributor


Revenue Recognition

G&NS

 

[Bryank75]

This is true to a point. Exclusives are used to drive hardware sales. But hardware is used to sell software, as is indicated by the loss-leader strategy employed at the start of every fucking generation. Sony make waaaaaaay more profit from software sales than they do on hardware. Like it or not, Sony is in the ecosystem business now.



Its better that you cannibalise yourself, than be eaten alive by your competitors.
See: The Walkman vs. iPod, Kodak vs. Digital Cameras etc.

So, they will lose all the MTX and 3rd party and subscription sales when people decide to go PC rather than PlayStation / console. It's stupid.

Not to mention backlash from hardcore fans.... I cancelled 4 subscriptions and I still have not bought Returnal due to them putting games on PC. So they might want to think about this again. Many people are pissed off and they are people that spend money..... more than most.

 

[Bryank75]

O boy you must hate Jim Ryan don't you?? I bet that you in your dreams are kicking him in the nuts al over the place that he can't speak anymore....forever..am I right ore am I right?

Have you seen the new Venom / Carnage trailer.... where Venom breaks Eddie's nose and then fixes it, so he can break it again? That is the dream.

 

[mckmas8808]

What a difference a year makes.

Herman Hurst in March 2020.



I remember the last time I brought this up earlier this year when Days Gone was announced, people told me that Days Gone is just one game and Herman was 'technically' right. Well, now can I get some apologies? My DMs are open. I also accept cash and nudes if you cant muster up an apology.

P.S Some more choice quotes from February and June of this year.


So I guess they do care what forum dwellers and the twitter mobs think but didnt see a big enough backlash. I am guessing they had TheAPP99 blocked on twitter.


So to summarize, first it's just horizon then days gone because no backlash then all PS games, and then two months later he went out and bought Nixxes. Who wants to bet he will do a 180 on the 'at launch' bit before the end of the year? You get most of your revenue on day one after all and Nixxes has a good 6 months before launch to port the game. They have experience doing day one PC ports of Tomb Raider games.

I for one have come around to liking this strategy. Should save me a lot of money on mid gen refreshes, $60 a year PSN subs and if Nvidia ever decides to stop scamming the PC userbase, I might even buy a 3080 and run everything at 2x the framerate. I just really dislike how Sony went about misleading their audience for a year. I went back and read some of the replies, and so many gaffers bought into what Herman was saying. I dont much like VFX but I remember everyone jumping on him when he said Sony will eventually port everything to PC.

NONE of that means Sony will be publishing PS5 games day one on PC though.

 

[Thirty7ven]

So, they will lose all the MTX and 3rd party and subscription sales when people decide to go PC rather than PlayStation / console. It's stupid.

Not to mention backlash from hardcore fans.... I cancelled 4 subscriptions and I still have not bought Returnal due to them putting games on PC. So they might want to think about this again. Many people are pissed off and they are people that spend money..... more than most.

They should be investing in their own PC store, where you get discounts for cross platform purchases and so on.

It does seem that not only is Sony arriving late to the PC market, their strategy is also very limited in scope. I wonder where it’s all heading.

 

[mckmas8808]

They should be investing in their own PC store, where you get discounts for cross platform purchases and so on.

It does seem that not only is Sony arriving late to the PC market, their strategy is also very limited in scope. I wonder where it’s all heading.

OR............they continue being Playstation and focus on the console business 1st. And worry about PC later. They are literally breaking records doing things this way. Why change to make non-Playstation fans happier?

 

[BattleScar]

So, they will lose all the MTX and 3rd party and subscription sales when people decide to go PC rather than PlayStation / console. It's stupid.

Not to mention backlash from hardcore fans.... I cancelled 4 subscriptions and I still have not bought Returnal due to them putting games on PC. So they might want to think about this again. Many people are pissed off and they are people that spend money..... more than most.

Ah yes PC, the platform where a mid range GPU costs more than a whole PS5 and a years subscription to PS Plus and maybe even a game or two. The PC gaming market is not exactly the same as the console market, to assume that they are is being willfully obtuse. Buying and owning a console is much much cheaper than buying a GPU right now, leave alone a whole PC. As long as that is the case, consoles aren't going anywhere.

Its good that you're no longer paying for things you don't want, but "many people"? Who are these "many people"? You?

 

[Thirty7ven]

OR............they continue being Playstation and focus on the console business 1st. And worry about PC later. They are literally breaking records doing things this way. Why change to make non-Playstation fans happier?

Sure but they are doing it anyway, train has left the station. Releasing late ports on PC in third party stores to little fanfare isn’t exactly something that helps the brand IMO. Either do it proper or don’t.

 

[Bryank75]

Ah yes PC, the platform where a mid range GPU costs more than a whole PS5 and a years subscription to PS Plus and maybe even a game or two. The PC gaming market is not exactly the same as the console market, to assume that they are is being willfully obtuse. Buying and owning a console is much much cheaper than buying a GPU right now, leave alone a whole PC. As long as that is the case, consoles aren't going anywhere.

Its good that you're no longer paying for things you don't want, but "many people"? Who are these "many people"? You?

Well, I know plenty about PC.... I used to be a PC gamer back when GPU's went into AGP slots instead of PCI.

Anyway, PC is and will run into many issues..... GPU supply, states banning pre-made rigs that draw too much energy. Eventually the individual GPU's could be banned at this rate.

I think it's a big assumption to think console gamers do not have the knowledge or means to go to PC though.

 

[Bryank75]

They should be investing in their own PC store, where you get discounts for cross platform purchases and so on.

It does seem that not only is Sony arriving late to the PC market, their strategy is also very limited in scope. I wonder where it’s all heading.

I agree that IF they have to go to PC, it should be on their own launcher with all their own library and 3rd party games, where if you buy on console...you get on PC or vica-versa.

 

[BattleScar]

Well, I know plenty about PC.... I used to be a PC gamer back when GPU's went into AGP slots instead of PCI.

Anyway, PC is and will run into many issues..... GPU supply, states banning pre-made rigs that draw too much energy. Eventually the individual GPU's could be banned at this rate.

I think it's a big assumption to think console gamers do not have the knowledge or means to go to PC though.

I said nothing about knowledge, but cost.
Not everyone who plays games has thousands of dollars to spend on the hardware alone. And some people who do, believe it or not, don't want to.

 

[Bryank75]

I said nothing about knowledge, but cost.
Not everyone who plays games has thousands of dollars to spend on the hardware alone. And some people who do, believe it or not, don't want to.

Yeah, I just don't like the headache of it.

I was thinking of getting one for other things though...it's when people decide to make content or do some art on photoshop etc that PC becomes the obvious choice.

So there is a threat there in my eyes to the potential of PlayStation sales.

 

[reksveks]

They should be investing in their own PC store, where you get discounts for cross platform purchases and so on.

It does seem that not only is Sony arriving late to the PC market, their strategy is also very limited in scope. I wonder where it’s all heading.

By the time they arrive as a PC storefront, that 30% rev cut for pc might not be the norm.

 

[Oddvintagechap]

They expect to increase market share? 50+? Thats the craziest part.

PC gaming releases might have a negative effect on Ps+ Subscriptions. Whatever it is, they are gonna have to analyze that fast. For their jobs sakes. Investors really care about subscriber numbers even if youre losing money on them. Daddy Ryan is gonna be replaced by a Tencent janitor.

 

[Panajev2001a]

So, they will lose all the MTX and 3rd party and subscription sales when people decide to go PC rather than PlayStation / console. It's stupid.

Not to mention backlash from hardcore fans.... I cancelled 4 subscriptions and I still have not bought Returnal due to them putting games on PC. So they might want to think about this again. Many people are pissed off and they are people that spend money..... more than most.

Cancelling PS+ and not buying Returnal (sorry, but your loss :/) does not send the message you think you want to be sending here I think.

 

[hlm666]

Well, I know plenty about PC.... I used to be a PC gamer back when GPU's went into AGP slots instead of PCI.

Anyway, PC is and will run into many issues..... GPU supply, states banning pre-made rigs that draw too much energy. Eventually the individual GPU's could be banned at this rate.

I think it's a big assumption to think console gamers do not have the knowledge or means to go to PC though.

Your a pretty angry chap shooting from the hip alot, that whole pc ban shit is about stand by power they can pull 1200 watts in use and be fine.

How do you expect Sony to increase income/revenue? the ps4 is not going to sell more hardware than the ps2 did. The console market is not expanding so if they go your way they pretty much continue doing what they are doing and the only way to increase income is to increase game prices, sub costs and deploy mtx into their singleplayer games like ubisoft. It's not like the ps4 gen when they can just slap a subscription onto a service microsoft has made acceptable and get instant big revenue increase.

They stagnate doing it your way, things change just like the ps3 days when subscribing to play online was considered a horrid idea by ps users. People Don't need a box under their tv's anymore to play discs streaming has killed that, and while probably somewhat niche it's another hit to the console market.

It blows my mind how angry you are at sony looking at putting their games on other platforms. If your a share holder you want them to make as much money as possible, and don't really give a toss where it's coming from as long as the numbers keep going up and that's what they are trying to keep going.

 

[zedinen]

Nintendo reports results for the quarter ended June 30, 2021

 

[reksveks]

Nintendo reports results for the quarter ended June 30, 2021

Software down 10%, OG switch up which is a bit of a surprise. Overall down 9.9.

I have forgotten what the Sony numbers were.

 

[zedinen]

Gaming Revenue

June 2021

Sony ¥633,770 million (G&NS + Mobile Gaming)

Nintendo ¥322,647 million



June 2008

Nintendo ¥423,380 million

Sony ¥229,600 million

 

[Evilms]

PlayStation, Xbox, Mario and FIFA dominate EMEAA games markets in H1 2021

2.7 million games consoles, 8.2 million accessories and 82 million video games have been sold across Europe, Middle Eas…

www.gamesindustry.biz

Switch Sales Drop 26% in H1 2021 in EMEAA, PlayStation and Xbox Gain Marketshare​

 

[IAmAnAgnostic]

+---------+-------+-------+
| Quarter |  PS4  |  PS5  |
+---------+-------+-------+
|  FY1Q1  |       |       |
|  FY1Q2  |       |       |
|  FY1Q3  |  4.50 |  4.50 |
|  FY1Q4  |  3.10 |  3.30 |
|   FY1   |  7.60 |  7.80 |
+---------+-------+-------+
|  FY2Q1  |  2.80 |  2.30 |
+---------+-------+-------+
|   LTD   | 10.40 | 10.10 |
+---------+-------+-------+

So PS5 is no longer the fastest selling console and is now behind the PS4. If the supply was unlimited, probably this wouldn't be the case, but it still isn't ideal at all is it?

 

[John Wick]

i dont know about other territories but in the UK, gamepass is definately having an affect. how many games used to have an 80% share on PlayStation platforms last gen? for outriders it was understandable but resident evil 8 also had an 80% share on PS platforms. usually its only final fantasy that has such a split. we're seeing it more often now but again, this is just the UK. we dont have any sales data for US.

Of course GP is having an effect. I've myself not bought an Xbox game for ages. There is no reason to when I can get them on GP for the next 2 and half years.

 

[John Wick]

What a difference a year makes.

Herman Hurst in March 2020.



I remember the last time I brought this up earlier this year when Days Gone was announced, people told me that Days Gone is just one game and Herman was 'technically' right. Well, now can I get some apologies? My DMs are open. I also accept cash and nudes if you cant muster up an apology.

P.S Some more choice quotes from February and June of this year.


So I guess they do care what forum dwellers and the twitter mobs think but didnt see a big enough backlash. I am guessing they had TheAPP99 blocked on twitter.


So to summarize, first it's just horizon then days gone because no backlash then all PS games, and then two months later he went out and bought Nixxes. Who wants to bet he will do a 180 on the 'at launch' bit before the end of the year? You get most of your revenue on day one after all and Nixxes has a good 6 months before launch to port the game. They have experience doing day one PC ports of Tomb Raider games.

I for one have come around to liking this strategy. Should save me a lot of money on mid gen refreshes, $60 a year PSN subs and if Nvidia ever decides to stop scamming the PC userbase, I might even buy a 3080 and run everything at 2x the framerate. I just really dislike how Sony went about misleading their audience for a year. I went back and read some of the replies, and so many gaffers bought into what Herman was saying. I dont much like VFX but I remember everyone jumping on him when he said Sony will eventually port everything to PC.

They would be stupid to port to PC day and date with their consoles. Them porting games made 2 years ago doesn't really mean much. So until they do day and date there is nothing to be concerned about. I don't know what it is your trying to tell us with this post?
Sony should port games to PC it's extra money for the business.
There will be a minimum 6-12 months before a PC game is released.

 

[yurinka]

They expect to increase market share? 50+? Thats the craziest part.

They didn't mention it but yes. Switch passed its sales peak, which means that in the following years its yearly sales will keep decreasing until it gets discontinued. XBO had a small market share, and seems Series isn't improving it. PS5 instead is performing at gaming history record levels, breaking the PS4 records. So yes, in the following years PS4 will increase its market share.

So PS5 is no longer the fastest selling console and is now behind the PS4. If the supply was unlimited, probably this wouldn't be the case, but it still isn't ideal at all is it?

PS5 is the fastest selling console ever after its first 3 quarters, and if Sony reaches its FY sales target (seems they already secured the chips and are on track) will continue being the fastest selling console ever after its first 6 quarters.

These 10.4M vs 10.1M were shipments, and PS4 had a bigger number. But PS5 sold them to consumer several weeks faster reaching the 10M consoles sold to consumers faster than PS4 did.

 

[zedinen]

They expect to increase market share? 50+? Thats the craziest part.

48% (G&NS + Mobile Gaming)

 

[yurinka]

48% (G&NS + Mobile Gaming)

Hard to believe MS makes similar or more revenue than Nintendo. Do MS numbers really only include their gaming revenue? Or do they include something else that MS integrated on that division but isn't gaming related?

 

[michaelius]

They used to lump surface hardware and some other things into it but I haven't been checking lately.

 

[Bryank75]

Your a pretty angry chap shooting from the hip alot, that whole pc ban shit is about stand by power they can pull 1200 watts in use and be fine.

How do you expect Sony to increase income/revenue? the ps4 is not going to sell more hardware than the ps2 did. The console market is not expanding so if they go your way they pretty much continue doing what they are doing and the only way to increase income is to increase game prices, sub costs and deploy mtx into their singleplayer games like ubisoft. It's not like the ps4 gen when they can just slap a subscription onto a service microsoft has made acceptable and get instant big revenue increase.

They stagnate doing it your way, things change just like the ps3 days when subscribing to play online was considered a horrid idea by ps users. People Don't need a box under their tv's anymore to play discs streaming has killed that, and while probably somewhat niche it's another hit to the console market.

It blows my mind how angry you are at sony looking at putting their games on other platforms. If your a share holder you want them to make as much money as possible, and don't really give a toss where it's coming from as long as the numbers keep going up and that's what they are trying to keep going.

Well, their share price is going down.... so I wouldn't say it's working out too good for them and I will be advising anyone that I talk to to not invest in them or to sell. At least until they get the message.

If they wanted to put games on PC, there are better ways of doing it. They need way more than 13 studios.... they should have bought Square Enix and Kadokawa and made their own PC launcher and put all their PC games on that with cross-buy on the consoles. But they still need to keep games like GOW, Uncharted, R&C and a few others fully exclusive to the console to give a reason to buy it.

That way PC gamers might download the launcher and buy games and then later say.... a PS5 is only 400 or 500 dollars and I can play everything there too.... would be great for my sitting room or as a back-up etc.

Acquiring Square and letting them still publish some games on Nintendo along with FF14 revenue on all platforms would push revenue up past 30 billion easily and probably add between 500 million to 1 billion in profit, especially if they integrate publishing functions and do some other cost saving.

 

[prinz_valium]

Hard to believe MS makes similar or more revenue than Nintendo. Do MS numbers really only include their gaming revenue? Or do they include something else that MS integrated on that division but isn't gaming related?

Halo and Minecraft royalties for toys.
But Nintendo has the same for Pokemon and Mario

 

[reksveks]

Hard to believe MS makes similar or more revenue than Nintendo. Do MS numbers really only include their gaming revenue? Or do they include something else that MS integrated on that division but isn't gaming related?

Their gaming revenue for the last 12 months is 15.4m so that half year numbers looks right.

 

[yurinka]

Halo and Minecraft royalties for toys.
But Nintendo has the same for Pokemon and Mario

Their gaming revenue for the last 12 months is 15.4m so that half year numbers looks right.

Ok thanks, I thought they also included here some devices like Surface or some other non-gaming service.

 

[hlm666]

Acquiring Square and letting them still publish some games on Nintendo along with FF14 revenue on all platforms would push revenue up past 30 billion easily and probably add between 500 million to 1 billion in profit

How do you increase earnings/profit by up to 2.5 times in your scenario? because however your doing that for square they should just apply it to their own development and publishing right now.

Square Enix (9684.T) - Earnings

Current and historical earnings charts for Square Enix . As of September 2024 Square Enix 's TTM earnings are $0.13 B

companiesmarketcap.com

 

[Bryank75]

How do you increase earnings/profit by up to 2.5 times in your scenario? because however your doing that for square they should just apply it to their own development and publishing right now.

Square Enix (9684.T) - Earnings

Current and historical earnings charts for Square Enix . As of September 2024 Square Enix 's TTM earnings are $0.13 B

companiesmarketcap.com

Well I said 'between 500 million and 1billion'. I was aware they had profits around 500 million but this hasn't been a great year for them.

The increase in profit would come from integrating publishing with Sony and cutting the majority of their publishing staff..... their film and manga division would also publish through Sony, so that cuts many more costs.
Then focusing the game development around PlayStation would give focus to the catalog and allow profits to potentially rise quite a bit.

I would still say to publish some games on Switch though, that is profitable,

And a big expansion and update to FF14 or a FF14 successor.... across PS and PC.

 

[Insane Metal]

You fucking idiot

You had this gif ready just for this, I bet lol

 

[yurinka]

they should have bought Square Enix and Kadokawa

I'm curious, what is the price, yearly revenue and yearly profit of SE and Kadokawa? What is the amount of available cash that Sony has? And debt?

P.S.: Without knowing the numbers I'd say Sony already has/will have many exclusives from them with a current strategy cheaper, healthier and less risky for both sides .

 

[SlimySnake]

Microsoft revenue drop was 6%, don't think we got anything about gametime/engagement

Nintendo posted a 10% drop in revenue just now.

So 15% for Sony.
10% for Nintendo.
6% for MS.

MS and Sony seems to be only giving the software numbers where is NIntendo is including both hardware and software which is fine considering their hardware prices have remained the same whereas Sony and MS are selling $500 consoles compared to the $300 ones they sold in the quarter last year.

 

[reksveks]

Nintendo posted a 10% drop in revenue just now.

So 15% for Sony.
10% for Nintendo.
6% for MS.

MS and Sony seems to be only giving the software numbers where is NIntendo is including both hardware and software which is fine considering their hardware prices have remained the same whereas Sony and MS are selling $500 consoles compared to the $300 ones they sold in the quarter last year.

I am pretty sure there is a total xbox and Sony GN&S revenue YoY number out there. They are both up cause of the new consoles.

Xbox is 11% up. Software and services is down 6%

 

[Zombie9ers]

PS4 now approaching 2 billion games sold - more than any other console in history

 

[kretos]

You fucking idiot

You had this gif ready just for this, I bet lol

 

[Bryank75]

I'm curious, what is the price, yearly revenue and yearly profit of SE and Kadokawa? What is the amount of available cash that Sony has? And debt?

P.S.: Without knowing the numbers I'd say Sony already has/will have many exclusives from them with a current strategy cheaper, healthier and less risky for both sides .

Sony has about 44 billion cash and very low debt of 7 billion.

They could fund it all in debt or go half and half..... would cost about 12 billion with a 20% premium.
Square would be enough though with a bit of an increase in investment in Kadokawa.

From a financial standpoint Sega is a better investment than Square but Square is more IP rich...

If you want revenue and profit of Square and Kadokawa I can go looking...

 

[Dabaus]

Sony has about 44 billion cash and very low debt of 7 billion.

They could fund it all in debt or go half and half..... would cost about 12 billion with a 20% premium.
Square would be enough though with a bit of an increase in investment in Kadokawa.

From a financial standpoint Sega is a better investment than Square but Square is more IP rich...

If you want revenue and profit of Square and Kadokawa I can go looking...

Havent They’ve had 44 billion since last year? Im’m guessing they’re closer to 50 now.

 

[Bryank75]

Havent They’ve had 44 billion since last year? Im’m guessing they’re closer to 50 now.

I wish, they spent a good bit on acquisitions for music and anime.

End of this financial year I expect it to well pass 50 though.

 

[Hobbygaming]

its insane that PS5 is the fastest selling console of all time. sony literally keep breaking records. everyone knew it would be a success but who thought it would be the fastest selling console ever? with no signs of slowing down sony are even predicting they will break more of their own records with more than 22m sold in a single year.

if PS4 ends up at 120m, im thinking PS5 will end up somewhere around 130m-135m lifetime. PS4 lifetime sales are even more impressive when you consider it only ever had one price cut, unlike the PS2 which went as low as $99.

It really is something to behold. And they're off to a way better start with exclusive software than the PS4, it's not even close

 

[TheGodfather07]

PS4 now approaching 2 billion games sold - more than any other console in history

and another record broken by sony. like i said, they keep breaking record after record.

It really is something to behold. And they're off to a way better start with exclusive software than the PS4, it's not even close

yeah PS4 was very dry up until bloodborne but they went into overdrive after that. they pretty much had goty nominee's every year since 2015, even beating RDR2 for goty with God of War.

 

[Hobbygaming]

That may be true....but its still no where near the $200-$300 of the PS3.

Sony taking big hit on each PS3 sold; Xbox 360 in the black

Market research firm iSuppli has done its teardown thing with the PlayStation …

arstechnica.com

Sony loses cash on each PS3 sold

Sony will lose over $300 on each 20GB PS3 sold, "And a further US$ 240 on high-end 60GB unit," according to research.

www.theguardian.com

Yep, Sony lost over 3 billion dollars on the PS3 and yet they still came out with the beast that was the PS4 it's crazy

 

[Hobbygaming]

I remember before this launch people were saying the PS5 wouldn't sell nearly as good because of the $500 price tag and stronger competition

 

[IntentionalPun]

NONE of that means Sony will be publishing PS5 games day one on PC though.

They probably will for whatever GAAS games they produce; they don't outright state it, but to me the implication of GAAS + this statement on the slide below:

Means day one GAAS games on and off console, which would probably be PC.

 

[TheGodfather07]

I remember before this launch people were saying the PS5 wouldn't sell nearly as good because of the $500 price tag and stronger competition

that was a good one. PlayStation only dominated because of weak competition apparently. so switch and xbox series are weak competition than? beause PS5 is the fastest seling console ever.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I remember before this launch people were saying the PS5 wouldn't sell nearly as good because of the $500 price tag and stronger competition

I remember some were extremely sure of a 600-700$ price for the system.

 

[Hobbygaming]

I remember some were extremely sure of a 600-700$ price for the system.

Wow I remember that too and overheating hardware on the level of the Xbox360