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[clarky]

Make the game F2P.
Give the people that paid for the game exclusive Legendary equipment and skins and/or free season passes.
Make MTX skins that give the game a better personality and charge a premium for them.
See your numbers go waaaaaay up. Potentially turn a profit in the long run.
As it stands now, they are burning cash with no incentive to bring in fence-sitters and casuals, which any and all liveservice games need to survive.
You can clearly see the end of the runway for this game if they don't dramatically shift gears.

FTP is a terrible idea unless they have a far more robust cheat solution.

 

[I collect VHS tapes]

The problem is people aren't even buying the game because it doesn't look interesting

Add some beefy campaign and get rid of the awful colorful art style and that might change

But I think people are overlooking the fact that they need to get people to actually give a shit about this game and have an interest to even pick it up

The only thing that's gonna get people to consider it who originally dismissed it is some sort of very significant overhaul

 

[coffinbirth]

It's by far the most complex and ambitious PvP genre outside of maybe survival. Overwatch needed 5 - 6 years before it became Overwatch. This genre needs closer to 10. The PvP RPG.

ARC Raiders is still an infant.

And now hero shooters are old news. Tarkov has been around for years and, IMO, is still the best in the genre.

The PVP RPG has been around for decades now and it's called an MMORPG, extraction shooters are not that.

This not Ultima, lol.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Sony: we will continue to support OmegaGenre marathon just to make men in boxes happy!!!!

 

[coffinbirth]

FTP is a terrible idea unless they have a far more robust cheat solution.

It's the only thing that will save this game. Having a cheating problem is beside that point.
Also, all, and I do mean ALL, live service games have cheaters.

 

[TheKratos]

At this point I think Hermen is either working for Microsoft, or Sony has lost the plot and basically became a gambler.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

And now hero shooters are old news. Tarkov has been around for years and, IMO, is still the best in the genre.

The PVP RPG has been around for decades now and it's called an MMORPG, extraction shooters are not that.

This not Ultima, lol.

It's not about how long a genre has been around. It's about the number of iterations a genre has gone through.

In the 1980s, games used to take 5 people 6 months to make. Today, they take 6 years and need 100+ devs.

So 10 years today is not the same as 10 years back in the day.

MMORPGs were not Extraction Shooters. Unless you think Kart Racers are Graphic Novels.

 

[mckmas8808]

The problem is people aren't even buying the game because it doesn't look interesting

Add some beefy campaign and get rid of the awful colorful art style and that might change

But I think people are overlooking the fact that they need to get people to actually give a shit about this game and have an interest to even pick it up

The only thing that's gonna get people to consider it who originally dismissed it is some sort of very significant overhaul

OR...............................they can tell Bungie to just start making Destiny 3.

 

[clarky]

It's the only thing that will save this game. Having a cheating problem is beside that point.
Also, all, and I do mean ALL, live service games have cheaters.

Having no barrier to entry in an extraction shooter is a terrible idea and would just make the cheating x10 worse unless you have excellent anti cheat, Bungie do not. In a regular game you die to a cheater and the only thing that you lose is a bit of time. In this game you lose a hell of a lot more.

 

[I collect VHS tapes]

OR...............................they can tell Bungie to just start making Destiny 3.

Yeah, I meant if they are set on trying to save marathon

I agree they should cut their losses and move on

 

[squallheart]

 

[coffinbirth]

It's not about how long a genre has been around. It's about the number of iterations a genre has gone through.

In the 1980s, games used to take 5 people 6 months to make. Today, they take 6 years and need 100+ devs.

So 10 years today is not the same as 10 years back in the day.

MMORPGs were not Extraction Shooters. Unless you think Kart Racers are Graphic Novels.

You said extraction shooters are PVP RPGS. What is an MMORPG?
Extraction shooters are a sliver of that experience.
This is not a revolutionary new concept that needs a decade to gestate like you are suggesting.
In fact, im arguing that it's already in decline.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

You said extraction shooters are PVP RPGS. What is an MMORPG?
Extraction shooters are a sliver of that experience.
This is not a revolutionary new concept that needs a decade to gestate like you are suggesting.
In fact, im arguing that it's already in decline.

I don't think World of Warcraft is a PvP RPG extraction shooter. I never viewed that genre as a PvP genre.

If it is, then it required the GTA2 (top down) to GTAIII (3D open world) jump.

 

[Moriarty1889]

Sony doubling down on stupid.

 

[coffinbirth]

Having no barrier to entry in an extraction shooter is a terrible idea and would just make the cheating x10 worse unless you have excellent anti cheat, Bungie do not. In a regular game you die to a cheater and the only thing that you lose is a bit of time. In this game you lose a hell of a lot more.

That would mean 10x the players...
Again, that is a problem all f2p games have. Are all f2p games a failure?
Is this game a failure?
The money spent on combating cheaters would be a drop in the bucket compared to having a dead game.
The onus is on Bungie to bring in players, as much is it is to prevent cheating...and having a $40 live service game in 2026 that is floundering only leaves one escape route.

 

[clarky]

That would mean 10x the players...
Again, that is a problem all f2p games have. Are all f2p games a failure?
Is this game a failure?
The money spent on combating cheaters would be a drop in the bucket compared to having a dead game.
The onus is on Bungie to bring in players, as much is it is to prevent cheating...and having a $40 live service game in 2026 that is floundering only leaves one escape route.

The most successful extraction shooters are not FTP. Like I said going that route without cracking what nobody else in the industry appears to be able to do would be a disaster. If you don't know the difference in say cheating in COD to cheating in an extraction shooter then I don't know what to say.

 

[coffinbirth]

I don't think World of Warcraft is a PvP RPG extraction shooter. I never viewed that genre as a PvP genre.

If it is, then it required the GTA2 (top down) to GTAIII (3D open world) jump.

Call it whatever you want, it's not that complicated, which is my point.
All PVP genres and subgenres, thus far, have a pretty quick come up, peak, and then wind down in popularity.
Arena shooter, lane based shooter, BR, hero shooter, survival, extraction...
And all of those subgenres have their peak game.
Arc Raiders is that game.

 

[coffinbirth]

The most successful extraction shooters are not FTP. Like I said going that route without cracking what nobody else in the industry appears to be able to do would be a disaster. If you don't know the difference in say cheating in COD to cheating in an extraction shooter then I don't know what to say.

Right, but they have massive cheating problems. That's my point.
This game isn't getting more players out of thin air.

 

[clarky]

Right, but they have massive cheating problems. That's my point.
This game isn't getting more players out of thin air.

PSN, Game pass. decent discounts, free weekends . Once they address some of the games failings.

Like I said going FTP with this particular game might bring in some players short term but would absolutely be the death of it in its current form.

 

[Luipadre]

Yeah f2p would be the dumbest thing ever just like clarky said

 

[twilo99]

 

[coffinbirth]

PSN, Game pass. decent discounts, free weekends . Once they address some of the games failings.

Like I said going FTP with this particular game might bring in some players short term but would absolutely be the death of it in its current form.

There is no long term for this game in it's current form.
Putting it on a subscription service would be a step in the right direction, but that is still a barrier to entry for millions of potential players.

 

[clarky]

There is no long term for this game in it's current form.
Putting it on a subscription service would be a step in the right direction, but that is still a barrier to entry for millions of potential players.

Ok? Thats why they are chucking 400 devs at it. Not doing that and going free to play wouldn't change a thing.

For fear of repeating myself a barrier of entry is required to discurrage cheating. FTP isn't a one size fixes all model and never will be.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

 

[coffinbirth]

Ok? Thats why they are chucking 400 devs at it. Not doing that and going free to play wouldn't change a thing.

For fear of repeating myself a barrier of entry is required to discurrage cheating. FTP isn't a one size fixes all model and never will be.

That is the point of this thread, is it not? Sony doubling down on a bad idea?
They can throw all the shit at the wall they want, nobody is paying for this game.
Clearly.

 

[clarky]

That is the point of this thread, is it not? Sony doubling down on a bad idea?
They can throw all the shit at the wall they want, nobody is paying for this game.
Clearly.

Going ftp is a terrible idea, i was just pointing that out and why.

 

[coffinbirth]

Going ftp is a terrible idea, i was just pointing that out and why.

NOT going f2p is a terrible idea and that will be proven when the game is shut down unceremoniously.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

NOT going f2p is a terrible idea and that will be proven when the game is shut down unceremoniously.

It should have launched f2p, game did not have a chance in its current form and many knew that a year ago

 

[coffinbirth]

It should have launched f2p, game did not have a chance in its current form and many knew that a year ago

 

[Zacfoldor]

What coffinbirth is facing is the fact that there will never again be a surge of players of any numbers willing to spend 40 dollars on Marathon.

Without said surge of players, relying on returning players alone, the game cannot reach the numbers needed to recover.

What current Marathon fans know is that would absolutely ruin the game for everyone with good tastes. Also there are other problems.

Going F2P before you have a store filled with good mtx or before you have resolved onboarding or the bleed, would result in you pulling your "oh shit" lever at the wrong time. Not to mention the current players who paid money for the game might be mad and/or sue.

Instead, there are other levers. F2P weekend and sales. These can juice the numbers a bit but not blow your big load yet. These things may allow time to add good onboarding, address the bleed, and get mtx into the store.

It's all hopium though isn't it?

The userbase isn't big enough to sustain them long enough to address those issues.

Doing things out of order here will ruin everything long term.

There are no good options. The real issue(besides the bleed) is the number 88,337. That number was too low by half and they have painted themselves into a corner with the premium pricing.

coffinbirth you should join us in the ccu thread if you have time if this thread dies down, it's great. Everyone else too. This is exactly what we discuss.

 

[coffinbirth]

What coffinbirth is facing is the fact that there will never again be a surge of players of any numbers willing to spend 40 dollars on Marathon.

Without said surge of players, relying on returning players alone, the game cannot reach the numbers needed to recover.

What current Marathon fans know is that would absolutely ruin the game for everyone with good tastes. Also there are other problems.

Going F2P before you have a store filled with good mtx or before you have resolved onboarding or the bleed, would result in you pulling your "oh shit" lever at the wrong time. Not to mention the current players who paid money for the game might be mad and/or sue.

Instead, there are other levers. F2P weekend and sales. These can juice the numbers a bit but not blow your big load yet. These things may allow time to add good onboarding, address the bleed, and get mtx into the store.

It's all hopium though isn't it?

The userbase isn't big enough to sustain them long enough to address those issues.

Doing things out of order here will ruin everything long term.

There are no good options. The real issue(besides the bleed) is the number 88,337. That number was too low by half and they have painted themselves into a corner with the premium pricing.

coffinbirth you should join us in the ccu thread if you have time if this thread dies down, it's great. Everyone else too. This is exactly what we discuss.

For sure they need to have those ducks in a row first, and I've been screaming this since the open beta.
I'm actually surprised Sony have said anything in between launch and shutdown, that's how obviously in trouble this game is and has been the entire time.
83% player loss inside two months has the casket crafters smacking their lips and the invested befuddled.

 

[simpatico]

Sony: hey these guys ripped me off! They charged me a billion dollars for 4 maps. I know, I'll order them to make another map at the same rate! When all those people who didn't like Marathon find out that there's now more Marathon, I think they'll start buying it.

 

[uncreativename]

Not surprising. It's not like Marathon is unpopular on the level that Concord was or Fairgame$ will be, it just seems undercooked. Plus Marathon was always the big one that couldn't be allowed to fail, in terms of budget and PR, so even more reason why they wouldn't just give up without a fight. Hopefully for the people who are fans of this thing they can pull a Rainbow Six Siege and turn it around, I guess.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Call it whatever you want, it's not that complicated, which is my point.
All PVP genres and subgenres, thus far, have a pretty quick come up, peak, and then wind down in popularity.
Arena shooter, lane based shooter, BR, hero shooter, survival, extraction...
And all of those subgenres have their peak game.
Arc Raiders is that game.

Good luck if you think Extraction has hit its peak. You aint seen nothin yet.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

F2P for a niche genre is a retarded idea generally recommended by nincompoops

 

[Ogbert]

I wonder if they might be considering adding straight PvP - team death match,
control etc. Guaranteed loot drops depending on performance.

That might be an easyish way to try and add something.

 

[coffinbirth]

Good luck if you think Extraction has hit its peak. You aint seen nothin yet.

What's the next big extraction shooter on the horizon?
Fair Game$???

 

[coffinbirth]

F2P for a niche genre is a retarded idea generally recommended by nincompoops

Yes, it did so poorly for Fortnite, PUBG and Rocket League.
All disastrous failures of critical thinking.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Yes, it did so poorly for Fortnite, PUBG and Rocket League.
All disastrous failures of critical thinking.

I'm always impressed with how fortnite is still going strong given how niche it is

 

[Johnny Concrete]

With that logic Roblox is the best game ever.

 

[coffinbirth]

I'm always impressed with how fortnite is still going strong given how niche it is

Fortnite is a success in a niche genre that saved itself by going F2P.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Fortnite is a success in a niche genre.

Truly we live in an era of nincompoops

 

[simpatico]

The idea of making a game intentionally ugly for artistic reasons and then planning on monetizing it by selling more of that art is certainly a choice. That's the thing about F2P - people still need to spend money on the skins. The road to fixing Marathon's gameplay systems is much shorter than the road to fixing its aesthetic appeal. At that point you're just making a new game. It's kinda the perfect storm to be exactly what it is right now. A niche, quirky shooter. It's fine to make those, just don't spend a billion doing it.

 

[coffinbirth]

Truly we live in an era of nincompoops

Just keep sniffing those farts of yours, bud.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Just keep sniffing those farts of yours, bud.

My farts are premium. Your brain is free to play

 

[coffinbirth]

My farts are premium. Your brain is free to play

This is expert trolling, I can't even pretend it's not.

 

[Fbh]

OR...............................they can tell Bungie to just start making Destiny 3.

For their sake I hope a majority of the studio is already working on Destiny 3 or some other new game.
If they are fully focusing on Marathon and they won't have anything new to release for the next 5-6 years

Marathon is a waste of time and money at this point. Even if Season 2 brings back some players who have dropped the game, unless it convinces a ton of new people to buy the game or it makes the existing audience start dropping some significant money on microtransactions, Sony will just be burning money by supporting Marathon.

This shit is currently generating more revenue on Steam than Marathon game sales and microtrnsactions combined

 

[yogaflame]

Its a dying gaas trash. Next up the ugly dei and woke infested horizon gathering

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

What's the next big extraction shooter on the horizon?
Fair Game$???

Beautiful Light, Hunger, and Fragmentary Order are the next ones to keep an eye on. ARC Raiders will dominate the next 3 - 4 years once they implement a proper end game. By the time 2030 rolls around, we'll start to see the next generation of Extraction inspired by ARC Raiders longer TTK and more social play.

 

[coffinbirth]

Beautiful Light, Hunger, and Fragmentary Order are the next ones to keep an eye on. ARC Raiders will dominate the next 3 - 4 years once they implement a proper end game. By the time 2030 rolls around, we'll start to see the next generation of Extraction inspired by ARC Raiders longer TTK and more social play.

Literally none of those games will do better than Arc Raiders. I'd take that bet any day.
Dominate what?
Extraction shooters haven't topped the most popular BR or Hero shooters for peak ccu, and Arc is slipping out already.
Slay The Spire 2, an early access deck builder, has more players, ffs.
By the time 2030 rolls around, I'd be surprised if Arc is in the top ten ccu.