Sony: Vita was designed for a different world, but changes are afoot
- Thread starter m.i.s.
- Start date
Nightengale
Member
No, Sony, Vita's problem was that it was never designed to be a serious competitor to a Nintendo handheld.
Your internal resources, be it first-party studios, marketing, focus are all gravitated towards the home console. All your core IPs are console IPs. You have nothing like Pokemon. or even Fire Emblem, which is more known a handheld IP than they are for their console iterations.
Your internal resources, be it first-party studios, marketing, focus are all gravitated towards the home console. All your core IPs are console IPs. You have nothing like Pokemon. or even Fire Emblem, which is more known a handheld IP than they are for their console iterations.
Earthpainting
Member
"Designed for a different world" is an odd way of phrasing it, but I kind of agree. When you looked at the specs and launch line-up, you wouldn't have expected that the main type of games for the system would be smaller indie titles and multi platform ports.
I can understand people feeling burned by the system if they were one of those early adopters. I was one of those people and had that "I didn't buy it for this" gut-reaction. I suppose this is more a fault of the player than of the system itself, if it's even a fault to begin with. I bet recent Vita-owners do not have this expectation "problem" as much. In the end it all boils down to how much mileage you can get out of a system, and not about how many big name exclusives it has under its belt.
I can understand people feeling burned by the system if they were one of those early adopters. I was one of those people and had that "I didn't buy it for this" gut-reaction. I suppose this is more a fault of the player than of the system itself, if it's even a fault to begin with. I bet recent Vita-owners do not have this expectation "problem" as much. In the end it all boils down to how much mileage you can get out of a system, and not about how many big name exclusives it has under its belt.
megaspiderweb
Banned
Off topic- I am planning to write my dissertation on the strategic change for Sony's Playstation brand and i am wondering if the GAF community would be glad to fill out a survey should i get approval ?
I bought a vita in July and love it, however it does feel like a missed opportunity. It has the advantage of being on par with tablets and smartphones but with physical controls and there's no reason it shouldn't have gotten tons of iOS ports (especially since they share the same processor architecture) or even more PSN games (Megaman 9 & 10, Double Dragon Neon, Ducktales, etc...).
itll be back
Nikodemos
Member
This, a lot. When people find out they have to shell a crapload of money for a puny memory card, they all go "yeah... no". Bigger (at least 64 GB), cheaper memory cards, larger game cartridges (at least 6 GB, so the Rayman cut content issue doesn't appear again) are what the Vita needs (alongside a good deal of marketing, evidently).
TechnicPuppet
Nothing! I said nothing!
Everybody loves a good survey.
I wouldn't call that out of touch. Having games like Spelunky, Binding of Issac, etc...are some of the main reasons I bought a vita recently. I would love some iOS ports as well as the physical control would greatly improve a lot of iOS games.
Jacksonlee
Member
games i've missed on PSP and few games on Vita will make me get the vita someday.
like, 150 dollars.
like, 150 dollars.
For Japan, Monster Hunter was their Pokemon. Letting Nintendo get hold of it was a pretty big loss.
Live Free or Die
Banned
Joke post? It has "games and support".
I love my Vita and there hasn't yet been a point since launch where I've been stuck for something to play on it, but I am getting a little concerned about the relative lack of larger (non-indie) titles for next year and beyond. I buy and enjoy a lot of the smaller indie games, but I also want a good supply of "proper" full size titles.
Sony really need to get every single one of their big first parties (Naughty Dog etc) to follow Media Molecule's lead and set up split teams where one focuses on Vita and the other on PS4. SCE gets a lot of praise for not forcing studios to make things they don't want to, but they should put pressure on their dev teams to support both their home and handheld consoles. It would also be nice if SCE asked third parties to do Vita ports/side games of their titles, rather than wasting money on getting a pointless "1 hour of exclusive content" that is probably just a few side missions using recycled assets and has doubtful impact on people's console purchases, just like timed DLC exclusives.
Another minor thing that would help a bit with mass market views and assumptions about handhelds is better naming of the Vita games. Uncharted should have been "Uncharted 4: Golden Abyss" just like LBP Vita should have been LBP 3 and Killzone Mercenary should be Killzone 4 (though admittedly that could be confusing with the imminent release of Shadow Fall). Making the handheld version the "next entry" in the series would prove that Sony really think of their handheld games as equals to their home console games (which I'm not convinced they ever really have done). That would also help to curtail the bizarre idea that handheld games should cost less than PS3/4 games, which I've never personally understood.
With the lack of backwards compatibility on PS4, it would have also been good for Sony to get their later PS3 games on Vita as well. There isn't really any excuse for Rain and Puppeteer to not be on Vita alongside PS3 and GT6 would have been better off as a Vita exclusive than a PS3 game (the help it would provide to their struggling platform should outweigh the reuced sales from avoiding the PS3 user base). At the very least it should have been available on both.
Sony really need to get every single one of their big first parties (Naughty Dog etc) to follow Media Molecule's lead and set up split teams where one focuses on Vita and the other on PS4. SCE gets a lot of praise for not forcing studios to make things they don't want to, but they should put pressure on their dev teams to support both their home and handheld consoles. It would also be nice if SCE asked third parties to do Vita ports/side games of their titles, rather than wasting money on getting a pointless "1 hour of exclusive content" that is probably just a few side missions using recycled assets and has doubtful impact on people's console purchases, just like timed DLC exclusives.
Another minor thing that would help a bit with mass market views and assumptions about handhelds is better naming of the Vita games. Uncharted should have been "Uncharted 4: Golden Abyss" just like LBP Vita should have been LBP 3 and Killzone Mercenary should be Killzone 4 (though admittedly that could be confusing with the imminent release of Shadow Fall). Making the handheld version the "next entry" in the series would prove that Sony really think of their handheld games as equals to their home console games (which I'm not convinced they ever really have done). That would also help to curtail the bizarre idea that handheld games should cost less than PS3/4 games, which I've never personally understood.
With the lack of backwards compatibility on PS4, it would have also been good for Sony to get their later PS3 games on Vita as well. There isn't really any excuse for Rain and Puppeteer to not be on Vita alongside PS3 and GT6 would have been better off as a Vita exclusive than a PS3 game (the help it would provide to their struggling platform should outweigh the reuced sales from avoiding the PS3 user base). At the very least it should have been available on both.
outunderthestars
Banned
soundscream
Member
That's still playing phone games. If it played vita quality games, it would have garnered more interest.
I have no use for a dedicated handheld gaming device. I drive, and have multiple TVs. But I need a cellphone, and I want one that can do a bunch of stuff. If I could get one to do proper games, I would be all over it.
awesomebro
Member
I'll take native sharpened up PSP games over the slew of indie ports. If Sony mandated each of its studios to create a vita game and instead of paying for terrible games like resistance, COD, EPIC MICKEY 2, and the yet to released borderlands, they invested in games like GTA, MH or GT, the vita would have been in a better position. Is about spending wisely on the franchise that had the potential to bring in a lot of new owners. Unless you do Nintendo numbers, third parties won't flock to you; if you don't bring games people want(moneyhat), you won't do Nintendo numbers. Sony failed to do the latter.
Moon_frogger
Member
Vita has plenty of games....that are old ports of games I've already played. It really doesn't have anything worth buying it for if you own even a handful of other consoles plus pc. I challenge you to prove me wrong.
Nightengale
Member
No, they didn't try, Xperia Play was nothing but utter idiocy.
The problem with Xperia Play was that it was the ultimate 'compromise' device. Its design made it a poor phone in consideration of competition, and the 'PS Mobile' aspect was poorly done.
It needs to be a competitive phone WITH actual Vita, period. No compromise.
Something like this.
Nikodemos
Member
Yup. A smartphone's requirements and a full-size handheld's requirements are antithetical. Every attempt to bring the two together has failed and will continue to fail.
OTOH, a micro-tablet and a handheld could coexist in the same body quite harmoniously. Why didn't Sony attempt to make the Vita a proper micro-tablet and a handheld console, I'll never understand. It's not like they didn't know what a tablet was or could do; the iPad launched in 2010.
Nintendo has a big problem with attach rate itself, despite having 6x the userbase.
Unless the game is called Animal Crossing or Pokemon or is an children's anime tie-in game, I'm not certain it's better off on the 3DS than the Vita.
Not in Japan. Doesnt the Vita only have something like 3 games that have done over 100k in sales over there.
The Vita (much like every console that has ever existed) needs the 1 big, AAA, flagship title that makes people need one.
Indies are cute and all but they don't sell systems. They also need to drastically drop the prices of those memory cards, which are just another big expense for no reason.
Indies are cute and all but they don't sell systems. They also need to drastically drop the prices of those memory cards, which are just another big expense for no reason.
It would be selling a lot better if it did.
I does have games. Its just games almost nobody wants or asked for. If you are not one of the very few who find the library interesting, it might as well have nothing.
Regarding support, sony doesn't give a shit about the Vita
H_Prestige
Banned
They already evolved. They turned into smartphones.
And I hear Sony makes a pretty good one.
The PSP made sense in 2004 because there was no such thing as a high end portable media player that also played games. Now everyone has something like that in their pockets. The dedicated handheld is a dinosaur that doesn't belong anywhere other than a museum. Sony needs to figure out how to make money off of Android gaming. I thought PS Mobile was going to be a serious attempt but it seems like it hasn't gone anywhere.
Magicpaint
Member
They are nice games to have portable but when you think of the alternatives elsewhere (iOS, PCs and consoles) on far more popular formats, it's hard to see these as major selling points. This is the biggest problem with the latest indie push. You're not appealing to the mainstream because they can get that fix elsewhere without the major investment required.
Crimson_Gold
Member
No, they didn't try, Xperia Play was nothing but utter idiocy.
The problem with Xperia Play was that it was the ultimate 'compromise' device. Its design made it a poor phone in consideration of competition, and the 'PS Mobile' aspect was poorly done.
It needs to be a competitive phone WITH actual Vita, period. No compromise.
Something like this.
I'll take 2
And thats all good but when the system is selling 16k in the US games like Spelunky are not going to change things.
awesomebro
Member
Don't be naive, focusing on indie and mobile games is exactly what their strategy is now. And do you think if Sony has something "awesome" to show for the vita, they won't show it even though its still a year before they announce is release date just to say "hey we got this awesome stuff cooking for the vita please buy it!".Shuhei Yoshida would say what people want to hear he fucking works for Sony. I won't be surprised if vita projects are being moved on to the PS3/4 and BEND is working on a PS4 game.
KimonoNoNo
Member
This is the crux of the quote.
If Sony was going to design the Vita now, with hindsight they would probably of done that.
But the question remains whether they would of gained any more traction in the market place, with the failures of Psp Go and that Erikson Playstation phone still fresh in the consumer minds.
Father_Brain
Banned
This may or may not still be true, but is there any confirmation of this more recent than job postings from November of last year? That's more than enough time for plans to change significantly, especially now that Bend is confirmed to be developing a PS4 project (I believe Yoshida tweeted that they weren't earlier this year, though I'm not 100% on that).
EDIT: Here's the @yosp tweet in question, from February.
https://mobile.twitter.com/yosp/status/306348552681029632?screen_name=yosp
No, they didn't try, Xperia Play was nothing but utter idiocy.
The problem with Xperia Play was that it was the ultimate 'compromise' device. Its design made it a poor phone in consideration of competition, and the 'PS Mobile' aspect was poorly done.
It needs to be a competitive phone WITH actual Vita, period. No compromise.
Something like this.
Two markets with one stone. Fantastic idea. You should work for Sony.
Manmademan
Member
No, they didn't try, Xperia Play was nothing but utter idiocy.
The problem with Xperia Play was that it was the ultimate 'compromise' device. Its design made it a poor phone in consideration of competition, and the 'PS Mobile' aspect was poorly done.
It needs to be a competitive phone WITH actual Vita, period. No compromise.
Something like this.
that's actually pretty damn brilliant. would buy.
awesomebro
Member
I'll give you that cos animal crossing and Pokemon are a phenomenon. However, unlike sony, nintendo brings a slew of quality titles, with consistent supply, that people want on the 3DS because all its dev studios work on the 3DS but not all sonys studios work on the vita so you get 5 indie ports (available for cheap on every platform but the vita) and 5 crappy mobile games for every big retail game on the vita. Another thing, MH aa has been said before, big on the PSP but absent on the vita and now big on the 3DS. That sums it up.
H_Prestige
Banned
They already have a similar solution.
Not portable obviously, but most people play their handhelds at home anyway.
Epic Mickey 2 isn't really that bad (I think it's a better 3D platformer than Sony's own Jak 1 and 2 to be honest) and Borderlands 2 could be good with a decent port (though it is pretty old now) and I imagine they were much cheaper than getting Rockstar to release a GTA game or outbidding Nintendo on Monster hunter (as they seem to have got that locked down), but I agree that Sony should look at investing better in third party games. The annoying thing is that they probably paid a hefty sum for COD on Vita and then they went and gave it to Nihilistic and didn't care about the quality. I understand that they didn't want to use up their first party studio's time on it, but they should have been more exacting in their quality standards for it, as that really could have been a big seller.
Yes their strategy now but not their end all. I would say it's even more naive to truly believe they're not working on any AAA titles.
All I know is I'm happy with mine. As long as we continue to get a relatively steady influx of japanese titles, I'll have more than I can play. I've got an actual backlog of at least 10 games I can't fit on my 16gig mem card until I finish other stuff.
I also doubt the business is as dire as WE think it is, as I imagine the attach rate per vita is pretty decent.
Ultimately, I think there's room for vita to become a modest success within the present strategy, smart phones or no.
EDIT: Also, it's crazy looking at the JP sales charts. Sales spike ridiculously with the release of a major game. I had no idea. Then again, I'll be part of a 3DS spike when AA5 comes out.
I also doubt the business is as dire as WE think it is, as I imagine the attach rate per vita is pretty decent.
Ultimately, I think there's room for vita to become a modest success within the present strategy, smart phones or no.
EDIT: Also, it's crazy looking at the JP sales charts. Sales spike ridiculously with the release of a major game. I had no idea. Then again, I'll be part of a 3DS spike when AA5 comes out.
legacyzero
Banned
Love my Vita. Even if I've only really bought a ton of PS1 games 
. What can I say, I love Nostalgia. The MGS HD collection is surprisingly good on Vita. I can only hope more HD collections make their way to this beauty. HEY KOJIMA! Can we have ZOE and ZOE2 please??
However, I have big plans for my Vita:
-REMOTE-FUCKING-PLAY
-Killzone
-Borderlands
-Minecraft
-FFX-X2
-Oh, and MINECRAFT
Can't wait.
. What can I say, I love Nostalgia. The MGS HD collection is surprisingly good on Vita. I can only hope more HD collections make their way to this beauty. HEY KOJIMA! Can we have ZOE and ZOE2 please??However, I have big plans for my Vita:
-REMOTE-FUCKING-PLAY
-Killzone
-Borderlands
-Minecraft
-FFX-X2
-Oh, and MINECRAFT
Can't wait.
They already evolved. They turned into smartphones.
And I hear Sony makes a pretty good one.
The PSP made sense in 2004 because there was no such thing as a high end portable media player that also played games. Now everyone has something like that in their pockets. Sony needs to figure out how to make money off of Android gaming. I thought PS Mobile was going to be a serious attempt but it seems like it hasn't gone anywhere.
Fuck phones as consoles!
They are phones. They are meant to perform tasks that wont drain your battery dry and render its phone calling/texting capabilities useless in hours. Or heat the device until its uncomfortable to use in your hands and slow the UI to a crawl.
Its like the smart watches nonsense. Its a damn watch, its supposed to work without you having to worry about charging it every night. But because another dumb company thought they could squeeze some cash from the all-in-one device craze going on, the world can now go to the internet and play games in their wrists. "Oops! Battery dead, better look at the time on my phone...also dead. Better bring out my tablet..."
I truly do believe the benefits of dedicated devices will drag us back into a world where people no longer find the shortcomings of cramming a million functions into one slab appealing.
Priorities are wonderful things and watches and phones have theirs clearly defined.
SneakyStephan
Banned
Well vita games cost as much as pc games, but they are babby console games (features, graphics, content all less than in console games, let alone pc games)
Expensive games, super expensive insultingly much so memory cards = no sales
They didn't need 2 years of failure to know guess this was gona happen.
Father_Brain
Banned
On a related note, Gara himself was asked in an interview around March about Vita's retail lineup post-Tearaway/Killzone, and promised "the cupboard won't be bare."
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/the-...-gara-a-and-coultate-talk-playstation/0112130
KingJ2002
Member
I hear you guys... but i think of the market at the time of the PSP Go and it wasn't ready for the DD only aspect... it's not til recently that we've started to see people embrace it with the market dominance of the iPhone and let's not forget that Sony did not have the PlayStation store in place at the time either. A win wasn't possible 4-5 years go... but now... sony has the best chance to create a lane in between the iPhone and Nintendo DS and going DD is the only way that handheld games can get rid of the 40 dollar entry tier. Apple is winning the mindshare game by mixing the their indie and traditional libraries... giving gamers the price points between .99
cents and 40+ dollars while traditional handhelds have the stigma that games are really expensive in comparison.
Sony can axe that idea and create a device that can truly disrupt Apple's iPhone market... by releasing a DD only PlayStation Portable with the Xperia OS hub, smartphone capabilities and have people buy content through the PS Store similar to iTunes.
Sony needs to fully marry the Xperia and PlayStation experiences if they ever want to see success in the handheld space. No more half baked attempts like the Ericsson Playstation Phone.
cents and 40+ dollars while traditional handhelds have the stigma that games are really expensive in comparison.
Sony can axe that idea and create a device that can truly disrupt Apple's iPhone market... by releasing a DD only PlayStation Portable with the Xperia OS hub, smartphone capabilities and have people buy content through the PS Store similar to iTunes.
Sony needs to fully marry the Xperia and PlayStation experiences if they ever want to see success in the handheld space. No more half baked attempts like the Ericsson Playstation Phone.
Perfect.
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
No, they didn't try, Xperia Play was nothing but utter idiocy.
The problem with Xperia Play was that it was the ultimate 'compromise' device. Its design made it a poor phone in consideration of competition, and the 'PS Mobile' aspect was poorly done.
It needs to be a competitive phone WITH actual Vita, period. No compromise.
Something like this.
This will happen
Off the top of my head there's Persona 4, Toukiden, Ragnarok Odyssey, Soul Sacrifice, Hatsune Miku, Gravity Rush, Dragon's Crown, Hot Shots Golf, Senran Kagura, Dynasty Warriors, One Piece Musou, PSO2... so, no.