When you say cheaper games, do you mean games more similar to the ones found on iOS and Android? If so, why would someone buy a dedicated gaming machine to play games similar to what they can already get on their cell phone?
Sony: Vita was designed for a different world, but changes are afoot
- Thread starter m.i.s.
- Start date
KimonoNoNo
Member
That boat has long since departed to Nintendo land.
I think the upcoming Killzone bundle is decent if you want the game. You get a PS Vita 3G, 8GB card, and of course Killzone Mercenary for £169.99.
http://www.game.co.uk/en/playstatio...599?pageSize=20&searchTerm=killzone mercenary
I would personally take it over the mega pack version if I didn't already own a Vita.
You mean where the 3DS has a cheaper option (non-XL), an even cheaper still option coming soon (2DS) and is still failing to keep pace with it's predecessor? Yep, great example.
The handheld with from the dominant handheld brand of nearly the last three decades happens to have a premium model at the same MSRP as the Vita sans memory card and you're acting like it's an analogous scenario. Hell of a twist in logic you're trying to make there.
And sure, software plays some part in the equation, when the title in question is an established flagship handheld IP like Pokemon, Mario, etc.. But Sony doesn't have Pokemon or Mario and I don't think there is much Sony could do to lure them over to the Vita. So it's not like they can do much about that. People won't buy a handheld ignorant of price for many IPs other the handful Nintendo already owns.
The only thing they can do is offer the hardware at a compelling enough point to get people interested, then seal the deal with software. The software is up to that challenge, the MSRP is slowly grinding it's way into that range, the memory cards keep taking a piss in the punch bowl.
LiquidSolid
Member
No idea about this year but last year they could've announced Killzone: Mercenary and Tearaway at E3 instead of Gamescom.
Distinctly Japanese games rarely get commercials in the west anyway. Most of the people who buy them already know they exist. I'd be hard-pressed to remember the last one I saw on TV. But IIRC, Gravity Rush actually did get a commercial over here.
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
They should get Dragon's Dogma with multiplayer hahaha
famousmortimer
Banned
100% untrue. They knew they had an uphill battle compared to EU and Japan but there was absolutely zero resistance to releasing it in NA. And while Shahid and his team have signed many, many games to the platform... so have Boyes/Suttner/Bettenhausen/etc. Every single person I know at SCEA is passionate about the Vita and I've never once heard a story about how they thought they weren't getting support from the top.
The main complaint is lack of advertising dollars - which is across all 3 territories. This has to do with Sony's current finances - not how they feel about the system.
awesomebro
Member
This indicates the demise of retail games for the vita. They might as well cancel it. Instead of the to put a GTA game on the machine and other solid 3D games that along with the device' potential, they churn out ducking indie games and ports. I'm sick of this indie game push. Why do indie games have to all be platformers? Or 2D games? As a potential PS4 owner, I have less confidence in Sony after the way the vita was handled.
But that still wouldn't get me to buy the Vita since I already own a PS3.
Which are? Because all I can see are ports, remakes and indie none which compels me to buy a Vita.
Plus the fact that the Vita isn't physically backward compatible with the PSP puts me off as well.
Most likely because Sony is trying every step they can to stop that game from bombing in sales, they will fail.
Son of Cervantes
Member
I really love my Vita, but it's a depressing sight whenever I go into GameStop and see the tiny, tiny Vita games corner. I realize that a lot of the better stuff (Hotline Miami, Spelunky, etc.) is only getting digital releases, but I would love if the Vita had a better library of physical games...especially since I'm running out of space on my 32 gig card, and Sony will probably never make a 64 gig one.
The fact that publishers like Namco Bandai are openly saying that they won't release games in the US because the sales aren't so good (One Piece Pirate Warriors 2 is coming out on PS3, so a translation is already done, but they aren't bothering with the Vita version, the Tales games aren't coming even though the Vita is starved for good JRPGs ever since Persona 4 Golden) is another troubling fact.
I have to wonder, if Sony had released the machine at a lower price with a decent pack-in memory card from the start, would things have been any different?
The fact that publishers like Namco Bandai are openly saying that they won't release games in the US because the sales aren't so good (One Piece Pirate Warriors 2 is coming out on PS3, so a translation is already done, but they aren't bothering with the Vita version, the Tales games aren't coming even though the Vita is starved for good JRPGs ever since Persona 4 Golden) is another troubling fact.
I have to wonder, if Sony had released the machine at a lower price with a decent pack-in memory card from the start, would things have been any different?
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
Uncharted Golden Abyss
Grtavity Rush
Wipeout 2048
Killzone:Mercenaries
Soul Sacrifce
Ys
Tearaway
Little big planet Vita
You do realise that ports, remakes and indies can all be good games, right?
'Good games' doesn't mean 'exclusive titles that cater to me specifically'.
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
And even if he feels that way, Vita still has exclusives. He is just spewing bullshit.
Personally I think they should have passed on the ARM + PowerVR silicon and gone with a successor to the Emotion Engine + Graphics Synthesizer silicon. Juiced up clock speeds and memory allocations, a slightly larger EDRAM allotment (was 4MB, maybe push it to 8 or 16MB depending upon cost), 512MB of total system memory (eschewing the dedicated 128 MB of VRAM to subsidize the EDRAM and reduce overall system cost), and potentially add a few VUs to further power it up.
The reasons for this would be three fold:
1. Non-outsourced parts built off an established fabrication would have helped save some money. The Vita's ramp up also paired perfectly with the PS2's end of production, which would have allowed fabrication lines already working on EE + GS assemblies to quickly be retrofitted.
2. Incredibly developer friendly. Not in a real world programming sense, but in that all the major studios are already familiar with the PS2's architecture and have a huge code base to work off of. Japanese developers in particular would have fallen in love with this.
3. Day one full BC with PS1 and PS2, rolling those collections out on PSN and marketing the system as a full Playstation family portable.
That design, paired down to a ~$150-$200 MSRP even if that means cutting the back and front touch along with both cameras (and adding real L2/R2 and L3/R3 buttons) would have been a far more competitive device if you ask me.
m.i.s.
Banned
Dual analog sticks, works as a phone when closed a gaming machine when slid open. They could have made a $700 device, but had it subsidized by mobile carriers.
Talking of which, another Sony attempt that fell by the wayside.
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
hahaha lol wtf
I don't think their goal is iPad-lite. I'd say their goal is more like being the Steambox Portable with how heavily they go after the indie/small studio Steam catalog.
TechnicPuppet
Nothing! I said nothing!
I have no idea what your point is to be honest. My point is that the price isn't why the Vita isn't selling, it's because the library is not good enough to sell it.
If Vita was the same price and had Mario, Pokemon, Monster Hunter, Animal Crossing, Luigis Mansion, Fire Emblem etc it would sell a hell of a lot better than it has.
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
I think marketing plays a even bigger part than that.
AuthenticM
Member
True, but it's not really an issue if DualShock support is optional. I mean, Vita games are still required to function properly on Vita first, then comes controller support. And besides, I think there are less and less games supporting the rear touch pad.
I feel this hits the nail on the head. The rear touch pad and cameras were superfluous and unnecessary. However not including a touch screen would ignore current trends far too much.
I cannot comment on the rest of your post, but I would have loved to play PS2 ports on the Vita.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Urgh. That game is fucking garbage. There i said it. Cutscene every 4 mins. Its even worse than the console versions in that regard.
By far the total opposite of what the Vita needs. Indulgent AAA bloatware.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
Capcpom would have been aware that the DS was a success in its own right due to multiple games, whereas monhun pretty much built up the psp from scratch - must have felt easier this time round to release a game on a platform that already has a big install base rather then having to create it themselves - all the better if nintendo happened to offer additional inducements.
Of course, I'm being a bit captain hindsight here, but assumedly there are people at sony who are paid to think about this kind of thing, and they were really asleep at the wheel here - and this had nothing to do with the changing market or tablets or smartphones, this was console basics.
I believe the public-facing people they have working on signing up games are doing a very good job, but the commitment from the top-- if it is there-- is not very evident. I don't even care about advertising dollars. I can't think of a major US-based studio working on games for Vita except MAYBE Bend (and that's not even a certainty).
It doesn't really have anything to do with how they feel about the system. The system itself is a masterwork of engineering.
I'd be pretty sad to see that some high level Sony Corporation of America executives were that disconnected from the market in 2012 to think it was a good idea, though.
And like others have said, why does it get 30 seconds of E3 time? I could see why it was minimized this year given PS4 (except PS3 got more), but last year?
H_Prestige
Banned
Sony can't turn around the Vita because the market doesn't give a shit about handhelds. They can put however many games on it and it won't make a difference.
MaximoffZero
Banned
Make the Vita's screen 7" instead of 5", give it an app store, and call it a gaming tablet. Problem solved.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
whoops. damn phone
Heh, I really enjoyed it, but would my point have resonated a little better if I'd said Gravity Rush or Wipeout 2048?
bigmit3737
Member
I want more tactical japanese RPGs on it- not Disgaea type but more fire emblem, shinning force, Brigandine types.
More sim games would be cool too but not farming.
More sim games would be cool too but not farming.
TechnicPuppet
Nothing! I said nothing!
3DS is doing ok though. The market doesn't care about a Sony handheld.
GA was fucking awesome. I had so many 'I can't believe this is a handheld game' moments. Sure, it's better the second time through when you can skip much of the fluff, but it's a great game either way.
If you want 'the total opposite', you'll find it in spades. The PSN store is chock full of indies.
And your point has no merit to it. You're relying on a premium priced version of a competitor's device as your proof of concept, when again, that's only the premium priced version and wasn't at price parity until about a week ago.
Also, you can cut Monster Hunter off your list for anywhere but Japan, and Animal Crossing, Luigi's Mansion, and Fire Emblem completely. Those don't sell consoles regardless of price. They're cumulative push titles where eventually there are enough quality titles to make the product appealing, but none of them sell the handheld to a very wide net of consumers on their own.
Mario and Pokemon do that, and pretty much regardless of price.
Another point I already made but you clearly missed: the games you cited are, with only one exception, Nintendo IPs that Nintendo has been producing titles with for several hardware generations now. Of course Sony's hardware would sell better if they owned Mario. It'd sell better if they owned Halo too. It would have sold tangibly worse if they didn't put Uncharted on it at launch for that matter. Sony doesn't own a handheld juggernaut IP, they can't make one over night. They have a strong software library but no breakout hits and you can't just design a game to be a breakout hit.
It's doing worse than it's predecessor, by a tangible amount. At this point it's going to end up closer to the PSP than the NDS in sales I'd imagine, so people will care about it just as much as the previous Sony handheld. Just more than the new one. I wonder why we'd see regression across the entire sector....
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Much better. Gravity rush has its fair share of bloat but it feels like a portable title. Uncharted is trying to cram a big screen experience into a device designed for short bursts of gameplay.
Wipeout is divine. It has its problems and is hard to control but that is what a big budget portable title should be about :- Immediate pick up and play.
RoninChaos
Member
What they did was pullout that ps3 hubris and just assumed people would buy it.
I still thinking launching any portable at 250 is suicide. They need to be at smart phone prices or lower in order to stay relevant. And they need on board memory.
I remember reading an article where one of Somy's designers was like "... We just assumed developers would make games for the vita". Lol at least Sony is less clueless than Microsoft these days.
H_Prestige
Banned
They don't care about a Nintendo handheld nearly as much as they used to.
For me it was best the fourth time when I had every collectable and could just run through without digging in every nook and cranny. I honestly enjoyed it more than Uncharted 1.
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
What are your thoughts on pokemon?
edit: it's funny how the most popular handheld title in the world isn't designed for short bursts of play
None of these are ports or remakes:
Uncharted: Golden Abyss
Assassin's Creed III: Liberation
Gravity Rush
Soul Sacrifice
Dynasty Warriors Next
Hot Shots Golf 6
Shinobido 2: Tales of the Ninja
Little Big Planet Vita
Ridge Racer
Unit 13
Ragnarok Odyssey
Lumines Electronic Symphony
Resistance Burning Skies
Silent Hill: Book of Memories
Call of Duty: Black Ops Declassified
WipEout 2048
Super Stardust Delta
Touch My Katamari
Super Monkey Ball: Banana Splitz
Reality Fighters
DJMax Technika Tune
Little Deviants
Modnation Racers: Road Trip
Motorstorm RC
Army Corps of Hell
Killzone Mercenary
Tearaway
Toukiden
Demon Gaze
Valhalla Knights 3
Freedom Wars
Corpse Party: Blood Drive
Ys: Memories of Celceta
And you're doing a disservice to ports because you ignore games like Persona 4 Golden.
TechnicPuppet
Nothing! I said nothing!
I dunno I think we are basically making the same point here and there are crossed wires. In the UK the Vita has cost about the same as the XL for a while, not the last week. There have at various points been deals for both but there isn't a lot of difference.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
But thats my whole point. It wasnt a handheld game, it was a console game running on a handheld. Im not saying games like that shouldnt be made but they shouldnt be a priority. They cost too much to make, have too long a dev time and will only captivate a small audience who will be better served with a console version.
You dont have to look at indies to find the opposite of uncharted. Tearaway, Rayman, Gravity rush, sonic, Wipeout, lumines, NFS MW etc all offer a experience that is the same quailty as console, while remaining handheld experiences.
Even port jobs like the Ninja gaidens and fighters are better as portable titles.
Err, I never said I wanted anything like this, on the contrary. I was trying to say that the Vita is not successful because that's how the market is right now. People want these sorts of things, and handhelds in general are far less wanted by the mainstream crowd these days.Trying to turn the thing into a half smartphone/tablet and half console can potentially increase sales, but I never thought it was the right solution. As others have said before, Sony need to market the Vita as well as they did the PS4, and to use the fact that the PS4 is so successful to their advantage. Obviously more games is a big plus, but I don't think it will improve the sales by much.
The memory card prices still made the Vita a generally more expensive purchase though.
awesomebro
Member
If Sony thinks people out to buy the vita are interested in IOS ports and 2D PSN indie games, then they are in for a rude awakening. Nobody buys a 200 dollar paper weight for more expensive versions of crappy games they can get for 99 cents on their cellphones. I've never seen a company so out of touch. You know the products that you costumers want yet you shove junk down their throats. Eventually they'll get fed up with asking, give up and vote with their wallets. At this point, despite being a vita owner, I can confidently say the vita is doomed. As a platform for console-like gaming on the go, it had a well defined function since you couldn't get console-like experiences on smartphones. Now its being relegated to providing more expensive versions of smartphone games which is a recipe for failure.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Boring as shit. And a pokemon battle as actually quite short. The RPG elements are lengthy, but id still argue its more about pick up and play than uncharted could ever dream of being.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
I think if sony tries to concentrate on creating portable console games the vita would be doing worse than it is now. Unless we are talking PSP era graphics, there is no way they could games out fast enough.
test_account
XP-39C²
I'm pretty sure that Sony learned from the PSP Go. They learned that the market was not ready for a download-only version of the PSP in 2009, especially not at that price. Its not like the PSP Go only failed because of the price, but mainly because you could get a better PSP model for a much cheaper price (better in the sense that it could also play physical and used games). The only advantage the PSP Go had over the PSP was the built in 16GB flash memory (and the form factor, but this is a subjective thing). The Vita is a brand new system, its not a different version of a 4-5 year old system like the PSP Go was, so i dont think the PSP Go had much telling in Vita's success or not. Maybe if the PSP Go was hugely successful, maybe the Vita would only have support for downloaded games. But that is impossible to say for sure
The PS Vita developement also started in 2010 sometime, the cellphone/tablet market was not hugely popular at this time, at least not compared to how it is in these days.
When Nintendo dropped the price on the 3DS, the Vita prices were already set. You cant just change the prices "just like that", the prices are planned for a long time. I'm almost positive that even if Nintendo dropped the price on the 3DS with $200 instead of $70, the Vita would still launch at the same price. The Vita price was probably set before the 3DS was even launched. Maybe not the exact price, but they knew the ballpark price already when they started to design the Vita, which was in 2010 sometime.
It's not like they're only developing indie games asides from Killzone. Sony Bend Studio are still working on a 'AAA' Vita title.
Shuhei Yoshida said some of their first party studios are still working on PS3/PS Vita games too. Just because they haven't been announced doesn't mean they aren't in the pipeline.