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[Mrbob]

While we are all making wacky proclomations I think I'll add mine to the list. You know what is going to be awesome?

PSP2

The portable system which will cement Sony in the leadership position in portable gaming for good.

Now we are years away from the PSP2, but the early foothold to Sony becoming the dominant portable leader is starting to take place. One of the greatest tools the DS has is backwards compatibility and the Nintendo name. Game Boy and Nintendo are synonomous with portable gaming. But Sony is starting to make their own foothold in portable gaming. This is no Xbox situation for the PSP either. It is more than that. Whle PSP may never catch up in Japan, it is going to handily outsell the DS in Europe and should get about a 60 percent marketshare in USA, if not more. Which leads to the perfect setup for PSP2. Not only will PSP2 be a more advanced system capable of new and better games, it is also going to have a main feature which is seen as a negative against the PSP versus the DS:

Backwards compatibility

Backwards compatibility with the entire PSP lineup. The touch screen novelty will have worn off by then and archaic GBA game compatibility isn't going to help. The change is occurring as we speak, but it is going to take years to reach fruition.

 

[Flo_Evans]

well I think its a wee bit early to start getting excited about PSP2

Didn't sony say they wanted the PSP to last 10 years? (of course what they want and reality don't always mix)

 

[maharg]

I think a lot of people seem to forget that in the US, the GBA is still outselling both of them individually (though not combined). Where all those people who keep buying the GBA will go in the long run is still an open and valid question.

 

[sonycowboy]

I think a lot of people seem to forget that in the US, the GBA is still outselling both of them individually (though not combined). Where all those people who keep buying the GBA will go in the long run is still an open and valid question.

Not true. PSP has outsold GBA 5 of the 6 months it was available. And that's with the PSP being more than 3 times the cost of the GBA.

 

[cvxfreak]

Not true. PSP has outsold GBA 5 of the 6 months it was available. And that's with the PSP being more than 3 times the cost of the GBA.

It's still selling reasonably close to the PSP, even with the DS available. With the micro and new SP around, the competition's stronger than ever.

 

[Speevy]

I agree with MrBob. The goal of outselling the DS is just one step if the portable market is to grow.

Three things could happen

1) PSP2 beats all competition
2) Gameboy Next (the true next-gen Gameboy) is released and the PSP outsells it)
3) PSP sells 70 million units within the next 4-5 years.

Of course, any of these options will lead Nintendo out of hardware completely one day.

 

[sonycowboy]

It's still selling reasonably close to the PSP, even with the DS available. With the micro and new SP around, the competition's stronger than ever.

Outside of the launch months, true.

However, the GBA is WAYYYY down in 2005 vs every other year. Sales are down almost 50% this year vs last. Obviously the DS & PSP have something to do with that and the Micro should give GBA back ~some ground, but the GBA is not the monster it's been.

 

[soundwave05]

I still think Game Boy Next is coming, especailly for the US/Euro markets, and that system will likely be more powerful than even the PSP is. Likely something card-media based, to make it as compact and power efficent as possible versus the disc-based PSP.

DS will eventually get in the $79-$99 budget range and probably get a redesign to make it more compact.

Personally I think Nintendo's philosophy of attacking Sony from two sides (Game Boy and DS) has been brilliant. It's bought them time to work on Game Boy Next, while GBA remains no.1 in North America. The DS dominates Japan. Sony may get a foot up in Europe eventually, but Nintendo still sells a lot of Game Boys/DS' systems there too.

The PSP has been a good thing for Nintendo IMO. Not only has it focused the company, but Nintendo is selling more portable hardware and software than they ever have.

And PSP is carving out an audience for itself too. It's win-win for everyone.

 

[cvxfreak]

Outside of the launch months, true.

However, the GBA is WAYYYY down in 2005 vs every other year. Sales are down almost 50% this year vs last. Obviously the DS & PSP have something to do with that and the Micro should give GBA back ~some ground, but the GBA is not the monster it's been.

That's really how it goes for every system. PS2 is way down in Japan even with the new model as well and so is everything but the 2004 debut systems; I wonder if it'll reach 2 Million this year. With the DS compensating for the GBA's huge drop, it's going good for Nintendo.

When I said the competition was stronger than ever, I didn't just mean Nintendo. The iPod, if it continues to gain movie content at those insane prices, will give the PSP a hard time on that front.

 

[Deku]

So much damage control. I can't it anymore captin.

 

[NWO]

:lol @ the damage control. Guess the PSP isn't going anywhere anytime soon

WTF?

Who honestly expects the DS or PSP to go away anytime soon? God this forum is so fucking stupid. The only people thinking this are the retards who think that a market can't hold more then one of any company. It just blows their fucking minds that *shock* the worldwide market is big enough to be able to hold more then one. I mean who would think that a multi-billion dollar industry could hold more then one company. lol am i rite?

 

[DCharlie]

"So is a $249 PSP unlikely next year too. Only in DCharlieland where every opportunity for Sony to fail occurs. "

well, that's why i said taking SONY FANS view of a $299 PS3 - i'm pretty sure that was the concensus in the "price of PS3" threads we've had.

Will it be $299? i have no idea.

$249 - well, if the PSP is selling as well as Sony are saying it is what REASON is there to drop the price? at most , we'll see the $199 pack finally make an appearance (IMO)

and i don't see that equates to a fail situation...

And neither is the balancing two machines destined to fail, i'm just interested to see how they do it - this is the first time they've had to do it after all.

But i guess my interest just means i'm a dirty, filthy sony hater huh?

 

[sonycowboy]

And neither is the balancing two machines destined to fail, i'm just interested to see how they do it - this is the first time they've had to do it after all.

I think they did a hell of a job with the PSOne & PS2.

30M extra PSOne's were sold after the PS2 came out and I don't think the PS2 suffered under that.

 

[DCharlie]

"I think they did a hell of a job with the PSOne & PS2.

30M extra PSOne's were sold after the PS2 came out and I don't think the PS2 suffered under that."

that's a good point, but in that case you are talking about a remodel and a new machine, this time you are talking about two new machines AND the PS2.

 

[Vennt]

Has your past caught up with you DC?

Seriously though, one problem and reason you get jumped on is you seem to give latitude and defence to everyone BUT Sony and then stretch any potential Sony failing as the kind of "doom & gloom" you deride others treatment of Microsoft for, and listing the products you buy of theirs just doesn't wash with people as a defence of impartiality, so sharing your 'impartial' opinion and getting jumped on it can hardly be surprising can it?

You should just let things slide and go back to games for a while, maybe in time people will recognise your balanced view, and I do think you can have some really insightful points, you just don't do yourself any favours.

Just a thought.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Don't let your cynical views on all things Sony get the best of you D.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Has your past caught up with you DC?

Seriously though, one problem and reason you get jumped on is you seem to give latitude and defence to everyone BUT Sony and then stretch any potential Sony failing as the kind of "doom & gloom" you deride others treatment of Microsoft for, and listing the products you buy of theirs just doesn't wash with people as a defence of impartiality, so sharing your 'impartial' opinion and getting jumped on it can hardly be surprising can it?

You should just let things slide and go back to games for a while, maybe in time people will recognise your balanced view, and I do think you can have some really insightful points, you just don't do yourself any favours.

Just a thought.

dude he bought a PSX.... IMHO he has the right to bitch about sony as much as he wants

 

[PS2 KID]

that's a good point, but in that case you are talking about a remodel and a new machine, this time you are talking about two new machines AND the PS2.

Nintendo supports the GBA (SP, Micro), DS and Gamecube concurrently. They will be releasing a 4th platform next year in the Revolution. I think Sony can handle 3 platforms.

 

[DCharlie]

"You should just let things slide and go back to games for a while, maybe in time people will recognise your balanced view, and I do think you can have some really insightful points, you just don't do yourself any favours."

thanks for the kind words, but ... naaa - i'll soldier on - i don't take this board half as seriously as people think.

I'm acting as a check and balances arsehole.

 

[Vennt]

dude he bought a PSX.... IMHO he has the right to bitch about sony as much as he wants

Haha, Point taken

Although I'd add I got stiffed by Microsoft UK for several thousand pounds, but learned to let it go and stopped hating, even subtly, on them long ago, especially on a forum as potentially incendary as GAF

I still haven't forgiven IBM funnily enough, but they were a lot more evil than MS by any measurement you can think of.

thanks for the kind words, but ... naaa - i'll soldier on - i don't take this board half as seriously as people think.

I'm acting as a check and balances arsehole.

That's cool, I figured the "hater" quip was fairly tongue-in-cheek.

I just settle for the arsehole bit for myself, checks and balances at GAF are as futile as pissing on a forest fire

 

[sonycowboy]

Nintendo supports the GBA (SP, Micro), DS and Gamecube concurrently. They will be releasing a 4th platform next year in the Revolution. I think Sony can handle 3 platforms.

Not the best argument there. Nintendo's console didn't do quite so well concurrently with the handhelds and the DS seems to have killed the GBA (micro notwithstanding - we'll see in a couple of months if it's sustained - which it likely will be).

It's not at all easy to manage multiple platforms. Where do you put your first party resources across 3 systems? Which exclusives do you sign and where? What do you tell 3rd parties? When you try to set up your holiday marketing, when you divide your attention, are none of them getting their due??

 

[kaching]

well, that's why i said taking SONY FANS view of a $299 PS3 - i'm pretty sure that was the concensus in the "price of PS3" threads we've had.

Consensus, my ass. You need to stop filtering out the Sony fans who don't happen to reinforce your worldview.

 

[Speevy]

It's not at all easy to manage multiple platforms. Where do you put your first party resources across 3 systems? Which exclusives do you sign and where? What do you tell 3rd parties? When you try to set up your holiday marketing, when you divide your attention, are none of them getting their due??

That has to benefit somebody.

 

[Deku]

That has to benefit somebody.

That would be Nintendo.

 

[Jonnyram]

Consensus, my ass. You need to stop filtering out the Sony fans who don't happen to reinforce your worldview.

How can you filter them out when they don't post?

 

[PS2 KID]

Not the best argument there. Nintendo's console didn't do quite so well concurrently with the handhelds and the DS seems to have killed the GBA (micro notwithstanding - we'll see in a couple of months if it's sustained - which it likely will be).

It's not at all easy to manage multiple platforms. Where do you put your first party resources across 3 systems? Which exclusives do you sign and where? What do you tell 3rd parties? When you try to set up your holiday marketing, when you divide your attention, are none of them getting their due??

Gamecube didn't perform well due to lack of exclusives and strong third party support. Sony doesn't have that problem.

Basically, I see it like this, Sony will eventually have 3 strong platforms market share-wise that will either be the at the top or very competitive with the market-leader. It's win-win whichever way you spend you marketing dollars. Logically, it would be best to invest in the platforms that will drive your future growth. Those would be the PSP and the PS3. As for the PS2, they'll probably support it with software from their B-teams and new teams that arise, but they won't abandon it. They won't leave money on the table.

 

[Link316]

However, the GBA is WAYYYY down in 2005 vs every other year. Sales are down almost 50% this year vs last. Obviously the DS & PSP have something to do with that and the Micro should give GBA back ~some ground, but the GBA is not the monster it's been.

hope CSFB separates the Micro sales in the Sep NPD so we can see how its selling, been doing some channel checks and it doesn't seem to be flying off the shelves

 

[soundwave05]

I think GB Micro + GBA SP will outsell DS and PSP this Christmas in North America, but I'll guess we'll just have to wait and see.

It's going to be interesting to see how the Nintendogs and Mario Kart bundles do for the DS. Both seem to be the types of packages that will do very, very well with Christmas shoppers.

 

[Ponn]

dude he bought a PSX.... IMHO he has the right to bitch about sony as much as he wants

I bought a Virtual Boy, what does that get me?

 

[Beowvlf]

I have a feeling we won't see a PSP2 until well past 2010. The need for a hardware upgrade in the handheld sector is much less than the console sector, and the PSP, like the PS3, is a very forward thinking, well complemented machine. How much else can they add that is really necessary besides an upgraded CPU+GPU? They already have an incredible screen, an improvable medium and Wi-Fi.

And it's not as if Nintendo will even attempt to one-up Sony on the technological front, because with graphic fidelity approaching the levels we are seeing today, Nintendo isn't the type of company to invest the required capital a PSP-esque equipped handheld demands. At MOST we'll see a GBA2 that is equal to the PSP in 2008 or so, but I would be surprised if it's more powerful, or if it even happens unless the Rev really takes off.

If I were Nintendo, knowing Sony's desire to extend life cycles, I would roll with 'em, and keep pushing and relying on the DS for as long as possible. Nintendo knows they need to rely on games, not technology to win, and the longer you hold onto a platform the better.

I see both the DS and the PSP lasting for more than 5 years at least.

 

[Pimpwerx]

1) I think you're probably the only one presuming that the PSP will be $249 next year.
2) And I'm sure you're the only one presuming a $299 PS3
3) Will the PS3 be eating PS2, Xbox360, GCN, Rev, NDS sales as well, or is it exclusive to PSP/PS3 combos?
4) Where do Hi-Def movies come into this. Are you saying there's a finite amount of money and that Blu-Ray movies will hurt game sales (which we've heard with DVD & UMD, but hasn't happened)

I do agree thay they certainly have a hell of a balancing act, with the various businesses that they are in:

1) PS2
2) PSP
3) PS3
4) Blu-Ray movies
5) UMD movies
6) DVD movies
7) Memory stick
8) CELL

but, I think what we're seeing is that they believe that there is (and please excuse the word) synergy in all of this. They all feed each other and when combined make the combination stronger than the individual pieces. At least that's the hope.

Blu-Ray helps PS3, and PS3 sure as hell helps Blu-Ray, same for CELL, same for UMD (w/ PSP) and so on. And why should Sony yield the handheld market because they have a desktop system?? Should DELL get out of the laptop business because they might push someone who was considering a DELL desktop?

I'm finding your arguments a bit one-sided, which is fine for a devil's advocate role, but hardly fair if we're trying to provide even-handed analysis. But I guess, my mongoose to your snake.



Well, that was just about the time that the PSP market bottomed out for them (in relative terms) I think ~most folks thought that the PSP would have a much better run in Japan than they've had, especially with the shortages and good sales early in the year giving that impression.

I remember one time this year, some were saying Sony should focus on software/media, after the Stringer announcement. I was like, yeah right. Playstation is the big business for Sony. It's the best hardware they have going. They must have seen this coming for years, and IMO, it's why they came up with the PSP. Not so much to confront Nintendo, but rather to supplant the Walkman with something that can move stupid units and also proprietary software/media. Sony will be renamed the Playstation Company in the coming years. :lol Seriously, this is the only real successor to the Walkman dominatrix I see coming for them. It's definitely got an advantage b/c they have that Sony styling going for a functional package. I jut balk crazy at the price. But I can imagine how successful this thing will be once they get it below thr $200 barrier. That's the lynchpin IMO. This is still the initiation period, so to speak. Once the price goes down, the sales are gonna go through the roof. It's good to see Sony Corp finally organizing its various strengths. I've hated the mess that they've been for years. PEACE.

 

[Jonnyram]

But I can imagine how successful this thing will be once they get it below thr $200 barrier. That's the lynchpin IMO. This is still the initiation period, so to speak. Once the price goes down, the sales are gonna go through the roof.

This is true... if PSP were $100, say, it would redefine portable entertainment. The question is, when will that happen? At $200+ it can never become the 21st Century Walkman.

 

[DCharlie]

"Consensus, my ass. You need to stop filtering out the Sony fans who don't happen to reinforce your worldview."

the sane ones are out numbered by the nutters.

Regardless - $299, $349, $399, or whatever... i'm interested to see how they push both machines at the same time.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

I bought a Virtual Boy, what does that get me?

Dizzying headaches from bright shades of red?

 

[kaching]

How can you filter them out when they don't post?

the sane ones are out numbered by the nutters.

DCharlie: "psst, Jonnyram...do you think we blew enough smoke up his ass to get him to think there really is a consensus?"
Jonnyram: "Yeah, DC, I think we dun good!"

i'm interested to see how they push both machines at the same time.

They're a CE company - that's what CE companies do...

 

[DCharlie]

"DCharlie: "psst, Jonnyram...do you think we blew enough smoke up his ass to get him to think there really is a consensus?"
Jonnyram: "Yeah, DC, I think we dun good!""

lol - why stop the fantasy there? Me and Jonny are in BED together. He can't speak because his.... um... mouth is full at this point in time...

"They're a CE company - that's what CE companies do..."

... and how well do Sony usually do this? See... now we are off track...

I'm just _interested_ in how they juggle it. I'm sure they'll do fine, but i'm curious. That's all.

 

[cvxfreak]

lol - why stop the fantasy there? Me and Jonny are in BED together. He can't speak because his.... um... mouth is full at this point in time...




... and how well do Sony usually do this? See... now we are off track...

I'm just _interested_ in how they juggle it. I'm sure they'll do fine, but i'm curious. That's all.

;_;

Thanks for the nasty image. =(

 

[Pachinko]

Bah, I think the situation in europe is similar to launch in north america for the PSP, it immediatly seems to overshadow the DS and then it's sales drop after a month or 2 when people realize that all the games suck ass and can be easily pirated. The PSP is a novelty gadget to show off to people, the DS is an actual game machine. That right now in the US has some software worth playing- castlevania, advance wars, kirby, maybe nintendogs if you like that shit. The PSP's highest rated games seem to be loadtime heavy ports of games best played on a big screen tv with 5.1 surround... like burnout. It sucks has a portable media player becuase it's to expensive to bring anywhere.

I can believe the 6 million worldwide thing though. Atleast 5 million of the things had to have been sold through by now, it's available in all 3 major territories and is the flashynew toy like I said above. People want it even if they aren't sure why. Rest assured, when the good software starts trickling into europe the Ds will crawl into the lead.


Give the PSP another 2 years though and charge half has much for the thing and it'll start crawling into sales king position.... just in time for The new Gameboy to release... for the same price has the PSP but with better graphics.


I thought last year this was a market nintendo was going to lose , and lose badly but now I think sony's in for quite the war.

 

[Kangu]

It sucks has a portable media player becuase it's to expensive to bring anywhere.

Yeah, as opposed to all those cheap portable media players that you don't even care if you lose.

 

[kaching]

lol - why stop the fantasy there?

Because the fantasy was yours, not mine, in the first place, Mr. Consensus.

 

[BorkBork]

Bah, I think the situation in europe is similar to launch in north america for the PSP, it immediatly seems to overshadow the DS and then it's sales drop after a month or 2 when people realize that all the games suck ass and can be easily pirated. The PSP is a novelty gadget to show off to people, the DS is an actual game machine. That right now in the US has some software worth playing- castlevania, advance wars, kirby, maybe nintendogs if you like that shit. The PSP's highest rated games seem to be loadtime heavy ports of games best played on a big screen tv with 5.1 surround... like burnout. It sucks has a portable media player becuase it's to expensive to bring anywhere.

I can believe the 6 million worldwide thing though. Atleast 5 million of the things had to have been sold through by now, it's available in all 3 major territories and is the flashynew toy like I said above. People want it even if they aren't sure why. Rest assured, when the good software starts trickling into europe the Ds will crawl into the lead.


Give the PSP another 2 years though and charge half has much for the thing and it'll start crawling into sales king position.... just in time for The new Gameboy to release... for the same price has the PSP but with better graphics.


I thought last year this was a market nintendo was going to lose , and lose badly but now I think sony's in for quite the war.

I thought the US PSP sales held pretty steady and strong throughout the summer months, much better than what the DS was doing in terms of months after launch. Also, it remains to be seen how much said quality software will help the DS combat the strong PSP numbers through the holiday season. With LCS coming out soon, I have a strong feeling that the PSP will beat out the DS this year, and I think Nintendo knows that too. That's why they have the big guns firing with the Nintendogs and Mario Kart bundles.

Edit: You got some broad generalizations on your PSP comments that people will probably find objectionable

 

[DCharlie]

the fantasy that me and jonny are some how in cohoots every time we post is YOUR FANTASY, that has nothing to do with "Mr. Concensus".

i admit that concensus was a bad choice of words - however, it does seem if you do a search that quite a few people _are_ entertaining the $299 idea.

regardless - this is irrelevant.

as stated, i'm interested in seeing how they handle two pieces of new hardware at the same time.

 

[kaching]

That you and JR have opted to back each other up on more than one occasion when I've taken issue with what one of you said is not a figment of my imagination, DC. That I chose to take a little creative license with that pattern and portray it as the two of you being in cahoots was only in keeping with the good-natured (I presume) ribbing that Jonnyram started here, and to make a point about the whole consensus nonsense.

i don't take this board half as seriously as people think.

Apparently you're being guided by your serious half at the moment

 

[DCharlie]

"Apparently you're being guided by your serious half at the moment "

bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

wrong! i find this incredibly amusing!

 

[refreshZ]

Its still early days people. Even now. PSP's killer app is still yet to arrive - y'know that game that is uniquely PSP, only possible on PSP and all the better for it? In fact the PS2-like trickle of moderate to good games regularly hitting has yet to really pick up steam. Its still comparatively very expensive - in fact - it could be the most expensive console on the market. Amazingly the one stand out fact about the PSP is its UMD video sales - who could have guessed that 9 months ago? If any or all of these facts change then I reckon the PSP could generate some real sales momentum.

 

[kaching]

bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

wrong! i find this incredibly amusing!

Your avatar seems to be amused so it must be true!

 

[Izzy]

Bah, I think the situation in europe is similar to launch in north america for the PSP, it immediatly seems to overshadow the DS and then it's sales drop after a month or 2 when people realize that all the games suck ass and can be easily pirated. The PSP is a novelty gadget to show off to people, the DS is an actual game machine.(1) That right now in the US has some software worth playing- castlevania, advance wars, kirby, maybe nintendogs if you like that shit. The PSP's highest rated games seem to be loadtime heavy ports of games best played on a big screen tv with 5.1 surround... like burnout.(2) It sucks has a portable media player becuase it's to expensive to bring anywhere.

I can believe the 6 million worldwide thing though. Atleast 5 million of the things had to have been sold through by now, it's available in all 3 major territories and is the flashynew toy like I said above. People want it even if they aren't sure why. Rest assured, when the good software starts trickling into europe the Ds will crawl into the lead.


Give the PSP another 2 years though and charge half has much for the thing and it'll start crawling into sales king position.... just in time for The new Gameboy to release... for the same price has the PSP but with better graphics.


I thought last year this was a market nintendo was going to lose , and lose badly but now I think sony's in for quite the war.

1) I thought PSP sales were pretty good in the US.
2) Ports? But I cannot play Lumines, Wipeout Pure, Ridge Racers or GTA: Liberty City stories on any other console or handheld. Not even Burnout Legends.

 

[jarrod]

Geez Izzy, did you really have to correct me in 2 seperate replies?

 

[Xrenity]

My guess is half of them are still at retailers.

 

[jarrod]

2) Ports? But I cannot play Lumines, Wipeout Pure, Ridge Racers or GTA: Liberty City stories on any other console or handheld. Not even Burnout Legends.

To be fair, 90% of Ridge Racers or BO Legends can be played on PS1/PS2. Plus BO Legends is getting a DS port.

That's like saying you can't play Super Mario All-Stars or Sonic Jam on any other platforms.