Support NeoGAF

[Boaty McBoatface]

I love learning about the various capabilities of older hardware, especially in the sound department.

I feel like 8-bit and 16-bit hardware's been covered extensively, whereas 32-bit is still mostly unknown to many. I guess what I mean is there aren't a lot of breakdown videos like there are for 8/16-bit consoles, like this:




My understanding is the Saturn hardware did have dedicated sound chips (even a Yamaha ym something + 68000?) to 'make music', as well as obviously reading audio from CD (which most of the game music would be done with).

fart town usa (lol) posted a link In this thread to a Panzer Dragoon Saga boss with incredible music, and I remember reading somewhere this was all done purely with the internal sound chip and is not cd audio. It sounds so punchy and bassy, like a tuned up version of the older Megadrive Yamaha sound chip.

The track on its own:




So I guess the question is, does anyone have a good understanding of how it works, and can we also have a Sega Saturn Sound Appreciation Thread

 

[BabyYoda]

All I remember is that it was more powerful than the PlayStation's.

 

[Tarin02543]

I believe one of the two Hitachi CPU's had to deal with audio.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

All I remember is that it was more powerful than the PlayStation's.

I'm much less versed in the technical aspects of the Saturn and PlayStation sound than I am in the SNES and Genesis, but the example from PDS sounds perfectly doable on PlayStation IMO. I believe it uses samples for its MIDI in the same way the SNES did, but obviously with much improved hardware. Just listen to Chrono Cross' OST.

 

[Team Andromeda]

I believe one of the two Hitachi CPU's had to deal with audio.

No, That's what the 68000 CPU was for, unless you were looking to use ADX

 

[Meicyn]

The music in Panzer Dragoon Saga uses Cybersound, which was wavetable synthesis software available in the 90s licensed for use in several Sega games. It was also used in Skies of Arcadia on the Dreamcast. When the game was ported to Gamecube, they did not use Cybersound which is why that version's soundtrack sounds like trash.

 

[drganon]

I heard the Saturn's sound chip/processor was pretty powerful and was sometimes used for other functions via programming tricks. At least something to that effect.

 

[Meicyn]

I heard the Saturn's sound chip/processor was pretty powerful and was sometimes used for other functions via programming tricks. At least something to that effect.

It's true, the sound chip was used by Camelot for Shining Force 3 to help with the game's 3D effects. The downside was that it led to some audio glitches. They tried to get some support from Sega on trying to find out what was causing it, but they got radio silence which led to Camelot severing times with Sega after they finished the scenario trilogy.

Camelot's solution to the audio glitch was to just "reset" the sound after every combat cutscene which was why the map music would always start from the beginning in scenario 2. Development for the Saturn was a nightmare, but anyone who knew how to code in assembly on that hardware could make it do incredible stuff. Radiant Silvergun was a prime example of maximizing the hardware's 2D and 3D capabilities.

 

[Drew1440]

Worth looking at Sega Model 2 arcade games, since the later revisions use the exact same SCSP as the Saturn, Model 2A\B\C all used that processor.
Model 3 used two of them for it's games.

 

[Meicyn]

Here's a song from Skies of Arcadia using Cybersound on Dreamcast:



And here's the same song without Cybersound, lazily ported to Gamecube without making some much needed adjustments:

 

[In Cold Blood]

It's true, the sound chip was used by Camelot for Shining Force 3 to help with the game's 3D effects. The downside was that it led to some audio glitches. They tried to get some support from Sega on trying to find out what was causing it, but they got radio silence which led to Camelot severing times with Sega after they finished the scenario trilogy.

Camelot's solution to the audio glitch was to just "reset" the sound after every combat cutscene which was why the map music would always start from the beginning in scenario 2. Development for the Saturn was a nightmare, but anyone who knew how to code in assembly on that hardware could make it do incredible stuff. Radiant Silvergun was a prime example of maximizing the hardware's 2D and 3D capabilities.

Scavenger games could make some amazing looking games on the Saturn for that era.

 

[Meicyn]

Scavenger games could make some amazing looking games on the Saturn for that era.

Dude, it was so disappointing when they shuttered. Before Jesper Kyd became well known for his work on Assassin's Creed, he put out some bangers on games like Sub Terrania. I need to listen to that soundtrack again. Incredibly talented folks.

 

[Three]

It wasn't any of the CPUs dealing with it. It was a custom sound processor.

https://segaretro.org/Saturn_Custom_Sound_Processor

 

[Orta]

I think it was the one feature of the Saturn's hardware that really trumped the Playstation.

Metal Gear Solid? Resident Evil 2? Fuck you Playstation scum! We have teh dedicated audios!!!!!

 

[cireza]

which most of the game music would be done with

This was often true on 16 bits CD consoles, but on 32 bits it actually became less and less frequent because of how much space the games actually started to take on the discs.

 

[RoboFu]

What people usually don't know is that the Saturn was actually a really powerful machine. It did a lot things better than the PlayStation and could technically push more polygons. The issue came down to basically using sprites as textured surfaces. As such it rendered using quads instead of triangles. So an easy way of porting a 3D game to the Saturn was building a engine that just made one side of the quad to be 0 length so it mimics a triangle but that also means it has to deal with more vertices and edges. This method also made transparencies impossible because it would overlap pixels when drawing.

So basically it was more powerful but less effective.

 

[SirTerry-T]

A great article that sums up the strengths (and weaknesses) of the Saturn's sound hardware can be read here ..

FatNicK Industries | Retro Games, Chiptunes and more

I do remember being blown away by the PD Zwei (all chiptunes mostly, if I remember correctly) soundtrack. Awesome stuff...

 

[Boaty McBoatface]

A great article that sums up the strengths (and weaknesses) of the Saturn's sound hardware can read here ..

http://[URL]https://mechafatnick.co...-playstation-and-the-end-of-the-chiptune-era/

[/URL]

I do remember being blown away by the PS Zwei (all chiptunes mostly, if I remember correctly) soundtrack. Awesome stuff...

That was a great read, thanks for posting!

 

[a multicultural team of v]

The amount of words written on the internet to ensure that everyone understands that the Saturn was, in fact, more powerful than the Playstation is kind of hilarious at this point.

That said I just finished Magic Knight Rayearth the other day and that game has a killer soundtrack. How much of that was the hardware and how much was just the fact it was a good soundtrack I don't know.

 

[Thanati]

This is cool. I love learning about old gaming hardware.

Thanks for bringing it up, OP!

 

[Mitsurux]

The Saturn OS had some really neat sound features when playing audio cds. You could lower the level of vocals, which worked surprisingly well, and also pitch shift the music up or down. With those features you could make just about any disc a home made karaoke track. Really interesting stuff.