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[derFeef]

There is one very important resource here on Earth, one reason to invade us, one thing that is probably rare and unique in the universe: us. Humans.


We would probably make great slave labor or pets for some advanced alien race, unique pets, with personality and humorous behavior. You know, like how we make fish and birds our own pets. Pretty much everything else is most likely easily found all over the cosmos for a species who can travel about it freely.

That's if other species have the same understandings as we have. It's the famous ant example.

 

[Mengy]

That's if other species have the same understandings as we have. It's the famous ant example.

We put ants in glass ant farms to amuse ourselves. They don't have to understand us or communicate with us, they just have to find us intriguing to look at or watch.


Earth to them might just be one large pet store.

 

[derFeef]

We put ants in glass ant farms to amuse ourselves. They don't have to understand us or communicate with us, they just have to find us intriguing to look at or watch.


Earth to them might just be one large pet store.

Or we are already a pet store. That's what I mean

 

[BruiserBear]

Isn't there?
Any other species is competition. Any other species is a potential threat. Alien minds may be similar to human's (as commonly depicted in scifi) or they might be truly alien. I wouldn't be surprised if there existed a species that will ruthlessy crush any potential threats, to be absolutely sure they will survive.
Exterminating (or at least decimating their industrial capacity) another species is not that hard, just accelerate a bunch of asteroids to their planets. For added effect, give them relativistic speeds. For making asteroid shields less effective, split the asteroid to smaller pieces during approach. (I have devious mind, no?)

Also, creating realistic scifi movie depicting invasion or space combat without being boring can be done. It is challenging and requires good director and writing, etc. The problem is that it would be hard and it's been repeatedly proven that there's no point in making intelligent films when brainless action makes a lot of money for Hollywood. (Pardon the hyperbole)

EDIT also, my question about the scifi movies was largely rhetorical.

I'd like to believe that any species capable of traveling the cosmos would be intelligent enough to realize wholesale takeover and or slavery of another race would be a horrible thing to do.

I mean, we humans have not advanced nearly that far in terms of technology, and we already think slavery is an abhorrent concept.

 

[teruterubozu]

I'd like to believe that any species capable of traveling the cosmos would be intelligent enough to realize wholesale takeover and or slavery of another race would be a horrible thing to do.

I mean, we humans have not advanced nearly that far in terms of technology, and we already think slavery is an abhorrent concept.

It's a hopeful thought, but advanced technology does not equal benign intentions, as European colonialists proved.
In fact, there are studies that show that the more "advanced" the civilization, the more brutal they are in violence and war.

 

[WeAreStarStuff]

I'd like to believe that any species capable of traveling the cosmos would be intelligent enough to realize wholesale takeover and or slavery of another race would be a horrible thing to do.

I mean, we humans have not advanced nearly that far in terms of technology, and we already think slavery is an abhorrent concept.

I'm trying to remember something Sagan said. Something about if we made contact with another species it means that there is hope for us, b/c that species had survived its technological evolution without destroying itself.

 

[Drazgul]

I'm trying to remember something Sagan said. Something about if we made contact with another species it means that there is hope for us, b/c that species had survived its technological evolution without destroying itself.

Or they didn't, and we make contact with their machine race inheritors who are hell-bent on destruction.

 

[Woorloog]

I'd like to believe that any species capable of traveling the cosmos would be intelligent enough to realize wholesale takeover and or slavery of another race would be a horrible thing to do.

I mean, we humans have not advanced nearly that far in terms of technology, and we already think slavery is an abhorrent concept.

Why is it horrible to destroy another species? By human morality, it is. By alien morality... is it? Do they even have a concept of morals?
I don't think technological development and colonization actually require morals. What if a species is completly utilitarian and strives for guaranteed survival?
What if their religion demands the destruction of others?
What if another species feels sorrow and regret for what they do but do it anyway?

Do not assume aliens follow human morality nor principles. We humans have many different systems, some accepting some things i outlined above. Though it seems majority of those cultures using such systems have vanished. I assume that is because they did mistakes, not because of their systems.

It's a hopeful thought, but advanced technology does not equal benign intentions, as European colonialists proved.
In fact, there are studies that show that the more "advanced" the civilization, the more brutal they are in violence and war.

Modern weapons allow for "shock and awe" tactics and strategies. They're effective. Why would a military commander restrict their capabilities, if they can save lives and win more effectively with surgical brutality?
Brutality is surprisingly practical.

I'm trying to remember something Sagan said. Something about if we made contact with another species it means that there is hope for us, b/c that species had survived its technological evolution without destroying itself.

Technological evolution doesn't stop somewhere... Technological evolution doesn't mean there is a crisis that can destroy the species. What if a species is completly united by the time they discover nuclear power?
A species being constanly in war might still survive until it meets us. Or it might not. There are too many variables.

 

[Mengy]

Why is it horrible to destroy another species? By human morality, it is. By alien morality... is it? Do they even have a concept of morals?
I don't think technological development and colonization actually require morals. What if a species is completly utilitarian and strives for guaranteed survival?
What if their religion demands the destruction of others?
What if another species feels sorrow and regret for what they do but do it anyway?

Do not assume aliens follow human morality nor principles. We humans have many different systems, some accepting some things i outlined above. Though it seems majority of those cultures using such systems have vanished. I assume that is because they did mistakes, not because of their systems.

Honestly, if another race is spiritual with respect to the nature of the universe, then it would make sense to assume that they strongly favor wiping out other species and such. Think about it, the universe is not a friendly place for life to flourish. Survival of the fittest is a very common theme amongst life on Earth. It is also a common theme amongst non life out in space. The larger the gravity body, the more it "bullies" smaller (weaker) bodies. It destroys and annihilates. The moon is trapped by the Earth. The Earth is trapped by our sun, and will one day be destroyed by it. It's not a matter of if, just when. Our sun is captured by whatever lies at the center of our galaxy, and some day it will "fall" into that center and be destroyed as well.

Survival of the fittest is not just common among life, it's common among the entire universe.

To another species who has vast more knowledge and connections to the universe than us, we would just be stardust living on borrowed time. A lesser form of stardust than them. Why would they bother to even care about us? How would that help them survive the dangers of the universe? If they could wipe us out with just a couple of button presses as easily as we can swat a fly or step on an ant, in order to get our resources that may help them survive just a bit longer, why wouldn't they? What would be the downside for them?



It's both sad and humbling to think like that, but humans have had a history of thinking we are so important and central in our world. When in reality a fly might think the exact same thing. But the reality could be very different.

Hopefully someday our species bands together and puts the segregation and wars behind us so we can truly make some giant leaps forward as a race in our role in the universe. Because it's the only way we stand a chance as a species in this universe, long term wise. If we don't, then we are just stardust for someone greater than us to trample on easily.

 

[WeAreStarStuff]

Technological evolution doesn't stop somewhere... Technological evolution doesn't mean there is a crisis that can destroy the species. What if a species is completly united by the time they discover nuclear power?
A species being constanly in war might still survive until it meets us. Or it might not. There are too many variables.

I’m not sure of the point you’re trying to make. I look at it like this. The ISS is a major cooperation amongst several countries, but it is such a baby step. For us to venture into deep space, our species would have to be united. We would have to mature and evolve to the point were we recognize ourselves as one species on one planet and all that such consciousness implies. The silly religions of the world, and antiquated patriotic thinking would have to be things of the past. It will take a global species to engineer the marvels that real space travel requires. Such a united humanity differs greatly than the segregated, and myopic populations at present. Of course it cannot be perfectly analogous, but I imagine other intelligent species would have had to reach such universal understandings before venturing out to the stars.

]Honestly, if another race is spiritual with respect to the nature of the universe, then it would make sense to assume that they strongly favor wiping out other species and such. [/B] Think about it, the universe is not a friendly place for life to flourish. Survival of the fittest is a very common theme amongst life on Earth. It is also a common theme amongst non life out in space. The larger the gravity body, the more it "bullies" smaller (weaker) bodies. It destroys and annihilates. The moon is trapped by the Earth. The Earth is trapped by our sun, and will one day be destroyed by it. It's not a matter of if, just when. Our sun is captured by whatever lies at the center of our galaxy, and some day it will "fall" into that center and be destroyed as well.

Survival of the fittest is not just common among life, it's common among the entire universe.

I don’t agree with this. Why don’t we purposely wipe out the lesser species on Earth? Or why don’t we wipe out the homeless and poor, or destroy the destitute? The more consciously evolved a being is, the more it sees the grand unification of the universe. Even that word “universe” means “one verse.” And this isn’t some hippy, kumbaya dreaming, even in the quantum sciences man is starting to realize such connectivity.

 

[Woorloog]

Hopefully someday our species bands together and puts the segregation and wars behind us so we can truly make some giant leaps forward as a race in our role in the universe. Because it's the only way we stand a chance as a species in this universe, long term wise. If we don't, then we are just stardust for someone greater than us to trample on easily.

We need something like the UNSC from Halo, the Federation from Star Trek (though they're wimps) or maybe the Galactic Empire from Star Wars. Something to represent interests of humanity and protect it. That protection part is relatively easy, let's just build giant X-Ray lasers.

Humanity first.

It occurs to me that if there were older (by a few thousand years at least) species than us here in Milky Way that are also space faring, we would have very likely detected them by now, no? Interplanetary flights would likely use fusion powered engine, wouldn't those produce enough light and energy we'd detect it from hundreds of light years away?
Of course they might be using something else... maybe some sort giant space-based coil gun for accelerating space ships?
If any species in our galaxy are about equal to us at the moment, we probably cannot detect them until a few centuries pass still
Always wondered why results are expected from SETI already when it is a actually a long term project, we need at least 500 years of SETI to have some chance, i think. I'd be amazed if there were another intelligent species withing 500 lightyears of us.

I’m not sure of the point you’re trying to make. I look at it like this. The ISS is a major cooperation amongst several countries, but it is such a baby step. For us to venture into deep space, our species would have to be united. We would have to mature and evolve to the point were we recognize ourselves as one species on one planet and all that such consciousness implies. The silly religions of the world, and antiquated patriotic thinking would have to be things of the past. It will take a global species to engineer the marvels that real space travel requires. Such a united humanity differs greatly than the segregated, and myopic populations at present. Of course it cannot be perfectly analogous, but I imagine other intelligent species would have had to reach such universal understandings before venturing out to the stars.

Unity is not required for inhabiting our solar system. Desirable, yes, but not required. Currently, people see no need to do space exploration... I'm inclined to belive that if Soviet Union still existed and were still superpower, space race would still continue. Competition would push space technology forward.
If we were united, we'd be focusing on betterment of living and envinroment, not space, because we do not really need it (apparently, bullshit IMO, we need to push to space for guaranteed survival).

 

[WeAreStarStuff]

Unity is not required for inhabiting our solar system. Desirable, yes, but not required. Currently, people see no need to do space exploration... I'm inclined to belive that if Soviet Union still existed and were still superpower, space race would still continue. Competition would push space technology forward.
If we were united, we'd be focusing on betterment of living and envinroment, not space, because we do not really need it (apparently, bullshit IMO, we need to push to space for guaranteed survival).

I spoke of deep space, not traveling our solar system - completly different endeavours. If we focused on betterment of living and environment, advances and interest in science would be an inevitable consequence. I mean hell, look at ancient civilizations, man has always been fascinated with the cosmos – and this makes sense as ultimately those upward glances are views of our origins. This all seems a pipe dream to me anyways though. More people now and days are more concerned with sports and celebrity gossip than anything of actual importance. It's rather depressing honestly; I often feel as if I belong to some other species/time.

 

[teruterubozu]

Why is it horrible to destroy another species? By human morality, it is. By alien morality... is it? Do they even have a concept of morals?
I don't think technological development and colonization actually require morals. What if a species is completly utilitarian and strives for guaranteed survival?
What if their religion demands the destruction of others?
What if another species feels sorrow and regret for what they do but do it anyway?

People like the "Alien Messiah" theory - that a superior, benign being will make contact with us and lift us out of our miserable, marginal lives. Sadly, it's as old as Christianity.

 

[DrForester]

Kind-of space related. A high School doing the whole "launch a weather Balloon with a camera" thing captured the balloon at the moment of explosion.

 

[Memphis Reigns]

I agree that humanity needs to become united as one species before venturing out to the stars instead of blacks, whites, christians, non-christians, democrats, republicans - (I was having this same conversation with my dad a few weeks ago actually). But I don't think it will happen on its own after enough time. Some sort of globalized event needs to happen. Discovery of life elsewhere, learning that Earth will be smashed by an E.L.E asteroid (or any other planetary threat), are examples of events that would unite mankind. Humans are too selfish with their own individual survival still.

I just get depressed thinking about it

 

[derFeef]

I agree that humanity needs to become united as one species before venturing out to the stars instead of blacks, whites, christians, non-christians, democrats, republicans - (I was having this same conversation with my dad a few weeks ago actually). But I don't think it will happen on its own after enough time. Some sort of globalized event needs to happen. Discovery of life elsewhere, learning that Earth will be smashed by an E.L.E asteroid (or any other planetary threat), are examples of events that would unite mankind. Humans are too selfish with their own individual survival still.

I just get depressed thinking about it

I am even more negative on that. When some bad global event is going to happen, humankind may destroy itself before that event even happens.

 

[WeAreStarStuff]

I agree that humanity needs to become united as one species before venturing out to the stars instead of blacks, whites, christians, non-christians, democrats, republicans - (I was having this same conversation with my dad a few weeks ago actually). But I don't think it will happen on its own after enough time. Some sort of globalized event needs to happen. Discovery of life elsewhere, learning that Earth will be smashed by an E.L.E asteroid (or any other planetary threat), are examples of events that would unite mankind. Humans are too selfish with their own individual survival still.

I just get depressed thinking about it

iknowthatfeelbro.jpg

 

[Kyaw]

iknowthatfeelbro.jpg

weallknowthatfeel.jpg

We need to start arming the next generation of children with these kind of great ideas but that's not happening.

 

[Memphis Reigns]

I am even more negative on that. When some bad global event is going to happen, humankind may destroy itself before that event even happens.

In what way do you think we would we destroy ourselves? War? Or unintentionally doing so by messing around with new energy technology? I always hear people say they don't think mankind will be around after another 2,000 years. I say there's a very good chance we will be, especially if we are united. Think about it, once we hit that threshold and work together, technology will be exponential and run rampant.

iknowthatfeelbro.jpg

I wish the general population knew that feeling!

 

[C.Dark.DN]

62 miles is the distance to the Kármán line, Space, and I've personally behind the wheel for over 200,000 miles in my life.

That quote from Neil deGrasse Tyson in the press conference video makes me think.

"If the Earth had no Atmosphere we'd be standing in "space"."

We dream about going into "space" but it's really such a small accomplishment right now. Public tourism will happen soon.

You always see pictures of the moon unrealistically close to Earth. Here's a true representation.

About 30 Earth's could fit in-between us and the Moon, and man has done it round trip.

Nothing new, but yeah, just thinking about it.

 

[WeAreStarStuff]

You always see pictures of the moon unrealistically close to Earth. Here's a true representation.

About 30 Earth's could fit in-between us and the Moon, and man has done it round trip.

Nothing new, but yeah, just thinking about it.

Dat 238,900 miles.

Spoiler

average

 

[derFeef]

In what way do you think we would we destroy ourselves? War? Or unintentionally doing so by messing around with new energy technology? I always hear people say they don't think mankind will be around after another 2,000 years. I say there's a very good chance we will be, especially if we are united. Think about it, once we hit that threshold and work together, technology will be exponential and run rampant.

I am just thinking, what if this happens tomorrow. There is a big ass asteroid on course with earth and we have nothing to counter that. I am not that optimistic that mankind is going to gather resources, knowledge and unite as we all would hope. Pillaging will happen, maybe worse, because who cares now.

Of course I am extremely pressimistic here, but I don't know...

 

[abstract alien]

"@UberFacts: Astronauts cannot burp in space because there isn't enough gravity to separate the gasses from liquids in the stomach."

Saw this on my tweeter feed. It makes sense, and is interesting if true. If.

 

[Woorloog]

Saw this on my tweeter feed. It makes sense, and is interesting if true. If.

Sounds... unpleasant. Think about it. All those liquids and gas just floating around in your stomach.

 

[abstract alien]

Sounds... unpleasant. Think about it. All those liquids and gas just floating around in your stomach.

That is just too much extra space being taken up. I would end up going crazy

 

[PantherLotus]

Yeah but I bet they fart.

 

[wolfmat]

Yeah but I bet they fart.

They have less control over the flow, so they end up mostly sharting.

 

[abstract alien]

They have less control over the flow, so they end up mostly sharting.

This is a terrible turn of events.

 

[WeAreStarStuff]

This is pretty neat:

Futuristic Space Plane Concept Moves Closer to Reality

A giant space plane that doubles as a supersonic jet is closer than ever to becoming a reality. Skylon is a privately funded, single-stage-to-orbit vehicle designed to take off and land from a runway, delivering up to 33,000-pounds (15,000 kilograms) into orbit. That payload could be a satellite or crew module, its makers say. Under development by Abingdon, England-based aerospace company Reaction Engines Ltd., Skylon's progress has interested the European Space Agency, and the small U.K. firm has revealed to SPACE.com its latest progress.

"We are now planning the next phase of development and raising the financing for it," Mark Hempsell, the company's future programs director, told SPACE.com.

Progress on the Skylon space plane's heat shield, superstructure, aerodynamics, avionics and critical rocket engine technologies is expected to help the European Space Agency compare the unpiloted reusable spacecraft's business case with expendable launch vehicles next year.

More at the link: http://www.space.com/16780-skylon-space-plane-progress.html

 

[lilbaby Jesus]

^Cool concept, anything new really that comes to fruition is what we need. More people excited and putting money towards space if the government isn't going to do it.

 

[abstract alien]

This is why I can't be a billionaire. After I sat aside funds to take care of home, family and gaming, I would blow the rest of it on space exploration tech like that.

 

[Slightly Live]

This is why I can't be a billionaire. After I sat aside funds to take care of home, family and gaming, I would blow the rest of it on space exploration tech like that.

Give me a trillion and I'll put a manned based on mars, the moon and maybe a few space hotels and stations.

I'd also send a few dozen more probes to Jupiter's moons. And a few super massive telescope arrays on the dark side of the moon.

And kickstart the Space Olympics and heavily invest in the development of zero-G sports.

 

[FACE]

This is why I can't be a billionaire. After I sat aside funds to take care of home, family and gaming, I would blow the rest of it on space exploration tech like that.

This is why you should be a billionaire.

 

[lilbaby Jesus]

This is why you should be a billionaire.

That's a BINGOO! (IngluriousBastards reference)

 

[Hootie]

Very slowly, but surely, we're making our way towards being able to send men into deep space.

 

[Kyaw]

Curiosity Rover lands on the Red planet in a week.

Will there be a 'live' footage of the craft landing from the mounted camera?

 

[maquiladora]

Curiosity Rover lands on the Red planet in a week.

Will there be a 'live' footage of the craft landing from the mounted camera?

 

[Kyaw]

That's technically yes then.

Can't wait to see the progress of the rover.

 

[Sirius]

Very slowly, but surely, we're making our way towards being able to send humans into deep space.

Fixed for political correctness.

Seriously cannot wait for Curiosity's landing on the 6th-7th.

Anyone here going to VSSEC (Strathmore, VIC) next Monday for the landing event?

 

[Setre]

Been watching my brothers dog for the past few days and she isn't house trained very well. I've been taking her out before I go to bed, around 11ish, and staring up at the sky while I wait for her to do her business. This has kind of got me interested in pursuing astronomy as a hobby. I've been reading up on it and basically before I go crazy with buying telescopes, or even binoculars, I should just keep doing what I've been doing but for longer periods.

What are some good beginner books and where exactly does one acquire a starchat?

 

[BruiserBear]

That is going to be awesome to see.

 

[Canis lupus]

Hope our future won't play out like Legend of the Galactic Heroes.

 

[Sirius]

Been watching my brothers dog for the past few days and she isn't house trained very well. I've been taking her out before I go to bed, around 11ish, and staring up at the sky while I wait for her to do her business. This has kind of got me interested in pursuing astronomy as a hobby. I've been reading up on it and basically before I go crazy with buying telescopes, or even binoculars, I should just keep doing what I've been doing but for longer periods.

What are some good beginner books and where exactly does one acquire a starchat?

Get Google Sky Maps on your Android / iDevice if you have one. A star chart is a great reference - yet this tool is absolutely amazing; pretty much a guided window to the stars, planets and other galaxies.

 

[Ovid]

Where's my 60fps!?

As for the rover, those HD shots are going to be glorious.

 

[Tea and Toast]

There was a documentary on BBC2 about the curiosity rover just now and I'm sure they were using the Mass Effect galaxy map music.

 

[Dr Zhivago]

There was a documentary on BBC2 about the curiosity rover just now and I'm sure they were using the Mass Effect galaxy map music.

Yeah, I was just going to post about that.
Thinking about it, Curiosity has jump jets and a laser... hmmm...

 

[Bollocks]

Hopefully this will benefit the PlayStation 4

 

[Hootie]

There was a documentary on BBC2 about the curiosity rover just now and I'm sure they were using the Mass Effect galaxy map music.

Some show about supermassive black holes on the Science Channel kept playing the song from the Matrix when Trinity kisses Keanu Reeves back to life at the end

 

[Woorloog]

Yeah, I was just going to post about that.
Thinking about it, Curiosity has jump jets and a laser... hmmm...

Mako carries a cannon and a machine gun, no laser.
Apologies for nitpicking, i'm the type...

Jump jets and a laser reminds me of BattleTech more, though no vehicle in BattleTech mounts jump jets to my knowledge.

Can we please send a two-legged walking probe with jump jets and a laser to somewhere? Just for laughs.

Also, if i say i bet the probe will crash or the contact with it will be lost, will i get the hate of SpaceGAF upon me?

 

[Chittagong]

Pretty cool. Lunar Rover owner's manual. 38MB PDF!

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/LRV_OpsNAS8-25145.pdf