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[Crazymoogle]

:lol Oh yeah. Funny how the mind doesn't link up facts, sometimes.

Oh, those clever Russians.

Well, it sounds like it should be simple. But on earth, that's basically a good way to die. (You'd want to airbrake first and then parachute. But on Venus, you actually want to minimize time in the air, as some probes actually ran out of battery life and failed due to conditions before even hitting the ground.) :lol

The second landing probe had a bit of bad luck though. Instead of taking a soil sample, luck conspired such that it ended up taking a camera lens cap. -_-

 

[Crag Dweller]

2.-I'm really interested in getting a telescope (thanx to this amazing thread that I don't seem to let go) because i wanna be able to admire in first hand the planets andmoon craters, which one could I get? one that's cheapo (like in VERY VERY cheapo)

How cheap are we talking about? If you have any astronomy clubs close you might be able to find a nice used telescope fairly cheap. My son and I are strictly amateurs, but we started with a Meade etx80 that gave us some good results for looking at planets although to be honest I've heard stories of people having trouble with this series(we never did though). Right now we are using a Meade 12" light bridge that I got last spring for us. Definitely a step up from the etx but still cheap enough for the common amateur to afford. Be warned that it is a fairly expensive hobby to have and whatever you have will never seem good enough.

 

[fallout]

Another thing on telescopes. You may not even have to buy one, really, as I have yet to find an amateur astronomer that didn't love showing other people things through their telescope. See if you can find any local astronomy clubs, Machado ... it would give you an idea of what you can see and you might even be able to find a used one that you know would be of decent quality.

 

[Windu]

The International Space Station Expands Again

Click For Bigger Image

The developing International Space Station (ISS) has changed its appearance again. Earlier this month, the Space Shuttle orbiter Discovery visited the ISS and added components that included Japan's Kibo Science Laboratory. The entire array of expansive solar panels is visible in this picture taken by the Discovery Crew after leaving the ISS to return to Earth. The world's foremost space outpost can be seen developing over the past several years by comparing the above image to past images. Also visible above are many different types of modules, a robotic arm, another impressive set of solar panels, and a supply ship. Construction began on the ISS in 1998.

Ithaca Chasma: The Great Rift on Saturn's Tethys

Click For Bigger Image

What created the Great Rift on Saturn's moon Tethys? No one is sure. More formally named Ithaca Chasma, the long canyon running across the right of the above image extends about 2,000 kilometers long and spreads as much as 100 kilometers wide. The above image was captured by the Saturn-orbiting robotic Cassini spacecraft as it zoomed by the icy moon last month. Hypotheses for the formation of Ithaca Chasma include cracking of Tethy's outer crust as the moon cooled long ago, and that somehow the rift is related to the huge Great Basin impact crater named Odysseus, visible elsewhere on the unusual moon. Cassini has now been orbiting Saturn for about four years and is scheduled to continue to probe and photograph Saturn for at least two more years.

Mars' Spring Storms

Click For Bigger Image

Early spring typically brings dust storms to northern polar regions of Mars. As the north polar cap begins to thaw, the temperature difference between the cold frost region and recently thawed surface results in swirling winds. The choppy dust clouds of at least three dust storms are visible in this mosaic of images taken by the Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft in 2002.

Currently, the Phoenix Mars Lander is exploring the Red Planet's northern region. For Phoenix's latest discoveries, visit www.nasa.gov/phoenix.

 

[speedpop]

Another thing on telescopes. You may not even have to buy one, really, as I have yet to find an amateur astronomer that didn't love showing other people things through their telescope. See if you can find any local astronomy clubs, Machado ... it would give you an idea of what you can see and you might even be able to find a used one that you know would be of decent quality.

Absolutely excellent suggestion. Plan on going through with this within my local city over the next week or so. Thanks fallout.

The International Space Station Expands Again

Click For Bigger Image

Even though the ISS is never trumpeted as the greatest feat of mankind, it always brings a warm and fuzzy feeling to see it get expanded gradually over time. The day space stations like this are thought of nothing but small scale is the day I die happy.

 

[ManaByte]

5.-When do they plan to have aq man on mars?

5. There is talk (and some work) towards a Mars mission sometime around 2030, but the problems are ridiculously massive. Currently, the travel time there is measured in months, not days, there is little or no radiation protection on the way or at the destination, and unlike the Moon, there is an atmosphere to penetrate, so the landing would be difficult. Even communication time would be significantly longer.

Actually NASA's new mission IS the program that will land a crew on Mars. The Constellation program is in it's early stages right now with the new spacesuit tests, lunar rover and habitat tests going on right now and the Orion spacecraft is scheduled for its first flight test later this year in New Mexico.

The timeline for the Contellation program currently looks like this:

2010: Shuttle program retired.
2015: First unmanned flight of an Ares rocket.
2020: Return to the moon.
2024: Permanent Moon base completed.
2030-2035: Manned landing on Mars.

All of that encompasses the Constellation program. Where as Apollo's sole target was the Moon, Constellation is going for both long term Moon habitation as well as a landing on Mars roughly ten years following the completion of the moon base.

There is a group called "Mars Direct" that is pressuring NASA to bypass the moon all together and go directly to a Mars landing. McCain has made some statements as to supporting something similar, but we need to Moon and the base there to work out the kinks before going to Mars.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/constellation/main/index.html

 

[Buba Big Guns]

Actually NASA's new mission IS the program that will land a crew on Mars. The Constellation program is in it's early stages right now with the new spacesuit tests, lunar rover and habitat tests going on right now and the Orion spacecraft is scheduled for its first flight test later this year in New Mexico.

The timeline for the Contellation program currently looks like this:

2010: Shuttle program retired.
2015: First unmanned flight of an Ares rocket.
2020: Return to the moon.
2024: Permanent Moon base completed.
2030-2035: Manned landing on Mars.

All of that encompasses the Constellation program. Where as Apollo's sole target was the Moon, Constellation is going for both long term Moon habitation as well as a landing on Mars roughly ten years following the completion of the moon base.

There is a group called "Mars Direct" that is pressuring NASA to bypass the moon all together and go directly to a Mars landing. McCain has made some statements as to supporting something similar, but we need to Moon and the base there to work out the kinks before going to Mars.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/constellation/main/index.html

whoa, whoa, whoa. A moon base by 2024? I know it'll probably end up being really small but isn't that still a little too ambitious considering how long its going to take/taking for the ISS to be completed?

 

[ManaByte]

whoa, whoa, whoa. A moon base by 2024? I know it'll probably end up being really small but isn't that still a little too ambitious considering how long its going to take/taking for the ISS to be completed?

The ISS will be completed by then.

 

[dabig2]

The ISS will be completed by then.

Yeah, long before then. I think it'll be finished within the next couple years.

 

[Crazymoogle]

Actually NASA's new mission IS the program that will land a crew on Mars. The Constellation program is in it's early stages right now with the new spacesuit tests, lunar rover and habitat tests going on right now and the Orion spacecraft is scheduled for its first flight test later this year in New Mexico.

True; it's just that the program is much more budget limited with a longer burn time than Apollo. The research problems are significant enough that I think there is plenty of room for doubt in those timelines. I think without an alternative propulsion system - whether it be ion drive, solar sails, or something else new - for the space leg of the trip, it's going to be tough to keep the astronauts alive (and sane.)

The one thing that I think has been really good for the program though is the recon orbiter. I'm not sure how much the community at large has been willing to admit it, but having essentially giant wireless routers in space is a pretty awesome safety net.

Landing on the moon is interesting; I agree about working out the kinks - and the trip to Mars would no doubt be easier with a Moon launch stage - but the Moon is actually a harsher environment at some level - the effects of moondust are ridiculous - so it's a tough sell on a community that still hasn't found a good commercial reason for it.

 

[AndersTheSwede]

The ISS will be completed by then.

It will not only be completed, but also decommissioned and abandoned, (at least NASA's funding of it anyway, the other nations may pool together and keep it up.)

 

[Windu]

I doubt we get to Mars by 2030-2035. It will probably be somewhere around 2040-2050.

 

[fallout]

Cost overruns in Mercury/Gemini/Apollo: Fuck it. We'll just spend more!
Cost overruns now: Shit. We're going to have to delay that.

Landing on the moon is interesting; I agree about working out the kinks - and the trip to Mars would no doubt be easier with a Moon launch stage - but the Moon is actually a harsher environment at some level - the effects of moondust are ridiculous - so it's a tough sell on a community that still hasn't found a good commercial reason for it.

I actually disagree on the point of a Moon launch stage. I mean, from a practice point of view, using the Moon makes sense. Working out the kinks is something that will definitely need to happen (the Apollo program was getting quite good after just a few Moon landings). However, unless you're constructing things on the Moon with resources from the Moon, there's a net loss in there somewhere.

 

[Crazymoogle]

I actually disagree on the point of a Moon launch stage. I mean, from a practice point of view, using the Moon makes sense. Working out the kinks is something that will definitely need to happen (the Apollo program was getting quite good after just a few Moon landings). However, unless you're constructing things on the Moon with resources from the Moon, there's a net loss in there somewhere.

Oh, I just mean from a practicality point of view; launching from the Moon is far less risky and more energy efficient from a physics point of view. Slinging out of the Earth's gravitational field is a pain in the butt.

 

[Quazar]

Oh, I just mean from a practicality point of view; launching from the Moon is far less risky and more energy efficient from a physics point of view. Slinging out of the Earth's gravitational field is a pain in the butt.

Yea, that is the main point. I seen a cost difference thrown around somewhere and it was a pretty nice cut in money from what I remember.

 

[AndersTheSwede]

I actually disagree on the point of a Moon launch stage. I mean, from a practice point of view, using the Moon makes sense. Working out the kinks is something that will definitely need to happen (the Apollo program was getting quite good after just a few Moon landings). However, unless you're constructing things on the Moon with resources from the Moon, there's a net loss in there somewhere.

Agreed. There are two really good reasons for going to the Moon. 1: Mining Helium 3, and 2: Constructing infrastructure to take advantage of its low gravity (shipyards, elevator). Both utilizing construction materials and oxygen mined on the moon to reduce cost.

Frankly, from a practical benefit for Earth standpoint, there is a lot more the Moon can give than Mars which would likely be strictly a scientific mission. And it hard to argue that robots aren't more cost-efficient at that.

--

On the cost-overruns, they may have flied when we were trying to beat the Russians, but these days NASA has to live within its means, and it's present budget (even with the decommission of Shuttle/ISS) is very likely inadequate.

The chance that Ares V ever flies at all is probably 50/50, and without it nothing goes to the moon. Particularly with Obama saying he wants to cut NASA budget even more.

 

[Screaming_Gremlin]

Yeah, long before then. I think it'll be finished within the next couple years.

Yep, if I remember I think any construction should be done by 2010 when the shuttle is decomissioned.

 

[AndersTheSwede]

Click For Bigger Image

How did the star Eta Carinae create this unusual nebula? No one knows for sure. About 165 years ago, the southern star Eta Carinae mysteriously became the second brightest star in the night sky. In 20 years, after ejecting more mass than our Sun, Eta Car unexpectedly faded. This outburst appears to have created the Homunculus Nebula, pictured above in a composite image from the Hubble Space Telescope taken last decade. Visible in the above image center is purple-tinted light reflected from the violent star Eta Carinae itself. Surrounding this star are expanding lobes of gas laced with filaments of dark dust. Jets bisect the lobes emanating from the central star. Surrounding these lobes are red-tinted debris captured only by its glow in a narrow band of red light. This debris is expanding most quickly of all, and includes streaming whiskers and bow shocks caused by collisions with previously existing material. Eta Car still undergoes unexpected outbursts, and its high mass and volatility make it a candidate to explode in a spectacular supernova sometime in the next few million years.

 

[ManaByte]

Yep, if I remember I think any construction should be done by 2010 when the shuttle is decomissioned.

2011 actually. Congress just had NASA schedule one additional shuttle mission past those already scheduled in order to fully complete it.

 

[fallout]

While we're talking about realistic space exploration, I'd like to recommend the following:



http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000A0GYD2/?tag=neogaf0e-20

From the Earth to the Moon

Amazon Description:

This 12-hour HBO miniseries created by Tom Hanks garnered 17 Emmy nominations and captivated audiences. From the early stages of the space program and Kennedy's 1961 call to reach the moon within a decade to the successes and heartbreaking failures of the race for space the dream was kept alive by dedicated daring professionals and a nation intent on reaching for -- and landing amid -- the stars all while the world faced the Vietnam War.



http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000XJ5TPE/?tag=neogaf0e-20

In the Shadow of the Moon

Wikipedia Synopsis:

In the Shadow of the Moon follows the manned missions to the Moon made by the United States in the late 1960s and early 1970s. The documentary reviews both the footage and media available to the public at the time of the missions, as well as NASA films and materials which had not been opened in over 30 years. All of this has been remastered in HD. Augmenting the archival audio and video are contemporary interviews with some surviving Apollo era astronauts, including Al Bean, Michael Collins, Buzz Aldrin, Charlie Duke, and Harrison Schmitt. The former astronauts have the only speaking roles in the movie, although occasional supplementary information is presented on screen with text and archival television footage presents the words of journalists such as Jules Bergman and Walter Cronkite. Neil Armstrong, the first person to set foot on the Moon, declined to participate.

I've recommended the first one a number of times to people at GAF, but at least the second one is fairly new. They're both excellent. The mini-series will probably get you the most entertaining, best detailed view of the Apollo space program. The documentary will open your eyes to the astronauts involved.

It's wonderful how well these two, along with Apollo 13 and The Right Stuff all complement each other. If you haven't seen those either, they're highly recommended.

Agreed. There are two really good reasons for going to the Moon. 1: Mining Helium 3, and 2: Constructing infrastructure to take advantage of its low gravity (shipyards, elevator). Both utilizing construction materials and oxygen mined on the moon to reduce cost.

If someone could find some commercially viable reason to go take advantage of the Moon, it would be amazing. I mean, there would be early disasters and lots of accidents and such, but it would surely accelerate our expansion into space.

On the cost-overruns, they may have flied when we were trying to beat the Russians, but these days NASA has to live within its means, and it's present budget (even with the decommission of Shuttle/ISS) is very likely inadequate.

Yep. It cost well over $100 billion dollars to send 24 guys to the moon over a couple years (their budget is now 17 billion). There's no way that would ever fly now. Things will just have to be spread out and any problems they run into will result in some delays.

The chance that Ares V ever flies at all is probably 50/50, and without it nothing goes to the moon. Particularly with Obama saying he wants to cut NASA budget even more.

Yeah, I try not to be too down on it, but you have to maintain a certain level of pessimism when it comes to space exploration. I think humanity is entirely capable of achieving anything, but whether we're willing to tolerate the risks and expenses is what I'm always concerned with.

I dunno, maybe we could persuade China to ramp up its space program and get a man on Mars by 2030.

 

[Laurentius]

While we're talking about realistic space exploration, I'd like to recommend the following:

http://www.amazon.com/Earth-Moon-Sig...4339371&sr=8-1

From the Earth to the Moon

Heh, I actually ordered this the other day! I found a used copy for $20, and I've been wanting to watch it for awhile now. Looking forward to it!

 

[afternoon delight]

Just wanted to say: amazing thread.

 

[Buba Big Guns]

The ISS will be completed by then.

I know that but I'm saying that the ISS had quite a few delays and took quite a while to finish and NASA's budget is not even close to what it used to be. What happened in the 60's was amazing. The first American in space to the first man on the moon all in one decade but that was when all of the US was motivated to achieve that goal. Unfortunately not as many people care about space exploration anymore which really sucks. I just can't see NASA going back to the moon, building a base there and then going to Mars in just 10 or so years with the current budget. I love Obama but some of the stuff he said about space exploration is very discouraging.

 

[Quazar]

What's McCains opinion on space?

 

[Laurentius]

What's McCains opinion on space?

Beats me! Maybe somebody will be able to dig something up, but it's not really something that's come into play at all in the current election. Or probably elections in a long time!

 

[Rindain]

What's McCains opinion on space?

Better than Obama's, unfortunately. McCain's wants to see a human mission to Mars, while Obama wants to take money from NASA to give to his preschool program.

 

[Quazar]

Beats me! Maybe somebody will be able to dig something up, but it's not really something that's come into play at all in the current election. Or probably elections in a long time!

Interesting google results.

America's Space Program

"Let us now embark upon this great journey into the stars to find whatever may await us."

-John McCain

John McCain is a strong supporter of NASA and the space program. He is proud to have sponsored legislation authorizing funding consistent with the President's vision for the space program, which includes a return of astronauts to the Moon in preparation for a manned mission to Mars. He believes support for a continued US presence in space is of major importance to America's future innovation and security. He has also been a staunch advocate for ensuring that NASA funding is accompanied by proper management and oversight to ensure that the taxpayers receive the maximum return on their investment. John McCain believes curiosity and a drive to explore have always been quintessential American traits. This has been most evident in the space program, for which he will continue his strong support.

and

Former NASA administrator Sean O'Keefe has publicly endorsed McCain:

"His leadership during a challenging time in the rich NASA history helped put our nation's quest for exploration on track. ."

". . .I can assure you that the McCain campaign will be saying more about space and its importance to not only the American economy and science, but to our very view of our selves."

 

[Hootie]

Better than Obama's, unfortunately. McCain's wants to see a human mission to Mars, while Obama wants to take money from NASA to give to his preschool program.

You gotta be fucking shitting me. Ugh.


Here's a nice chart I found from awhile ago, which confirmed my fears: http://www.nature.com/news/2008/080102/images/451004a-i1.0_large.jpg

 

[Quazar]

http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/11/26/481595.aspx

Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama’s education policy is causing a stir … but not all in a good way. Advocates for space exploration are noting with dismay that he’d take billions of dollars from NASA to pay for the educational programs he'd like to expand.

The shift from exploration to education came last week when Obama talked up his $18 billion education plan during a New Hampshire campaign swing. Actually, the reference to NASA comes at the end of a 15-page document laying out the details behind the plan (PDF file):

"The early education plan will be paid for by delaying the NASA Constellation Program for five years, using purchase cards and the negotiating power of the government to reduce costs of standardized procurement, auctioning surplus federal property, and reducing the erroneous payments identified by the Government Accountability Office, and closing the CEO pay deductibility loophole. ..."

The Constellation Program is NASA's $104 billion effort to send astronauts back to the moon in the 2018-2020 time frame, as an initial step toward wider space exploration and settlement. Although the policy paper doesn't lay out the figures, our own First Read political blog said Obama would keep Constellation on a $500 million-per-year maintenance diet during the five-year delay - with the implication that the timeline would be shifted to 2023-2025 for the first 21st-century moon landing.

The first years of an Obama administration would be particularly critical for NASA, because that's the time frame during which the shuttle fleet is due to retire. The schedule already calls for the space agency to hitch rides into orbit on other people's spaceships for up to four years, and if Obama follows through that gap could go for years longer - even assuming that Constellation goes into hurry-up mode if and when the budgetary spigots are opened wider.

USA Today quoted the Illinois senator as defending his plan to put NASA's vision on hold: "We're not going to have the engineers and the scientists to continue space exploration if we don't have kids who are able to read, write and compute," he said.

Over the long Thanksgiving weekend, space activists have had a lot of time to chew over Obama's views - and as you might expect, it's not to their taste.

"That would be very destructive," rocket scientist Robert Zubrin, the president of the Mars Society, told me today. "There's so much more we could do for education by having a visionary space program than by just throwing it away into the educational bureaucracy."

If anything, the focus of the Constellation Program should be shifted to a more ambitious goal of Martian exploration, Zubrin said. (What else would you expect?)

"That would send a message to every young person, saying 'learn your math and science, and you can be part of this important new challenge,'" he said.

 

[Hootie]

One of the very few stances I disagree with him on. And it's a huge disagreement. If McSame didn't want to stay in Iraq I'd probably vote for him just because of this. Very disheartening...

 

[fallout]

Isn't there anywhere else that the money could come from? NASA's not exactly bursting at the seams right now.

 

[bachikarn]

I don't think this is new, and I wouldn't be surprised if he changed his mind. Personally, I think education is more important than NASA (and I'm interning with NASA this summer!), but the five year delay would probably cause a big problem with jobs in the area, so I don't think thats going to happen.

Its also kind of sad that we have to take money from NASA. There is this perception that it is a big part of the federal budget, but right now its less than 1%.

 

[Hootie]

Isn't there anywhere else that the money could come from? NASA's not exactly bursting at the seams right now.

I just wish he'd take it from ANYWHERE ELSE but NASA. I don't care where. The military, anything.

 

[cjdunn]

Uh, guys, Congress writes the bills and the President signs or vetoes them.

Obama can't just arbitrarily gut anything.

 

[Hootie]

Uh, guys, Congress writes the bills and the President signs or vetoes them.

Obama can't just arbitrarily gut anything.

Yeah but if there's a large democrat majority in the senate, they can't exactly all go against him. Hopefully you're right and I'm wrong, though.

 

[Quazar]

I don't think this is new, and I wouldn't be surprised if he changed his mind. Personally, I think education is more important than NASA (and I'm interning with NASA this summer!), but the five year delay would probably cause a big problem with jobs in the area, so I don't think thats going to happen.

Its also kind of sad that we have to take money from NASA. There is this perception that it is a big part of the federal budget, but right now its less than 1%.

I'm not exactly willing to put in any faith that he'll "change his mind" tbh. Still searching for more info. though.

 

[Quazar]

U.S. Sen. Barack Obama promised to work with NASA officials to develop a focused mission for the future of the space program.

Obama said he would fund a strengthened space program, including the Orion program, which is designed to return Americans to the moon and later get them to Mars.

Obama said he wanted to revive the energy the country had for the space program during the Mercury and Apollo programs. The Mercury program launched the first Americans into space, and the Apollo program landed Americans on the moon.

Now, even though lots of good work is being done with the shuttle program, I don't think people have as deep of a commitment to the space program," he said.

The remarks eased concerns of aerospace engineer Angel Andujar, who asked Obama about his plans for the space program.

"At least he's looking into it," said Andujar, 24, of Palm Bay. "He wants to make sure we're not just wasting money, that NASA and the government have a vision, one goal in mind."

http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pb...2/NEWS01/805220340&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL

More recent remarks^^

 

[Hootie]

Well, that's much more promising than his previous plan. Let's just hope it improves even more.

 

[Quazar]

One thing never talked about is USGS Astrogeology

http://astrogeology.usgs.gov/

The Astrogeology Research Program is a team of over 80 research scientists, cartographers, computer scientists, administrative staff, students, contractors, and volunteers working to support the efforts to explore, map, and understand our solar system. Fields of particular interest are mapping, planetary geologic processes, remote sensing and monitoring, and scientific analysis, which leads to answers about our neighboring planets.

Staff is pretty cool, I once sent a lot of emails and they always answered back quickly. Very friendly people.

 

[Windu]

Well I guess thats another reason for me to vote for McCain. Obama will be president though. I hope he doesn't do too much damage to NASA.

 

[jett]

FU Obama

 

[AndersTheSwede]

I'm not going to talk about the political issues of your country 'cause it's not onf my business
but I'd really like to ask: how would people extract ANYTHING frpom the moon? let alone live there for a year, what about temperatures, water, food, radiation, (excitment???), oxygen and a lot of other stuff???

By heating up the regolith (the 'dirt' of the moon) in a chamber and extracting gases that have been trapped within. Analysis of rocks brought back during Apollo confirm that usable quantities of Oxygen exist. And oxygen typically represent 80% of payloads so not having to ship it would save a lot of $.

Finding water ice (which has been suggested to exist by some satellite in permanently shadowed craters) would provide even more oxygen, water (obviously) and hydrogen rocket fuel for launching craft from the surface (the whole point of building a shipyard.)

Temperatures would be moderating the same way they are in spaceships, with (extreme) insulating and a/c and heating.

Radiation can be reduced by burying the living spaces beneath the regolith.

Food can be grown from greenhouses.

It certainly isn't a good candidate for colonization or anything like that (which is way way way in the future). But it can be livable for small teams operating whatever equipment has been constructed.

However, if we scane the whole moon (which the upcoming Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter will do) and fine no water ice whatsoever then things become very difficult...

 

[methos75]

On another note, who else is getting The Universe: Season One on BD in Oct?

 

[Illuminati]

On another note, who else is getting The Universe: Season One on BD in Oct?

I'm not getting that, but I can't wait for The NASA Missions: When We Left Earth to come out. Seriously that was a really moving series and really got the point across about the importance of space exploration and pushing ourselves to the limits to do the impossible. Sad to say I seriously never respected astronauts so much in my life until after seeing that. It was a real eye opener that is for sure.

Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama’s education policy is causing a stir … but not all in a good way. Advocates for space exploration are noting with dismay that he’d take billions of dollars from NASA to pay for the educational programs he'd like to expand.

That is a real fucking scary prospect if he somehow pulls that off. I'm sure there are thousands of other government programs this can come from.

 

[Windu]

One question about the moon base though...there is no atmosphere on the moon. What kind of stuff will the moon base be built out of to protect it from asteroids, comets etc..?

 

[Buba Big Guns]

However, if we scane the whole moon (which the upcoming Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter will do) and fine no water ice whatsoever then things become very difficult...

Yea. Water could still probably be sent from the earth but something cheap and something that travels fast would have to be made. The moon apparently has Helium-3 too which can be used for nuclear fusion.

 

[Crazymoogle]

One question about the moon base though...there is no atmosphere on the moon. What kind of stuff will the moon base be built out of to protect it from asteroids, comets etc..?

Er...if that happens it would be a pretty huge world news event. I mean, comets and asteroids are very rarely non trivial objects. We saw a comet hit Jupiter. A comet hitting the moon would be a cause for scientific alarm and probably a hell of a lot of press.

General space debris, though...well, the thing is, the Moon isn't so hot for gravity. It's not actively pulling things in nearly as well as the Earth. So most of the collisions are of the random variety, with the Moon acting like a giant interstellar shield.

Quite frankly, the best way to build a moon base for protection is to not build it on the moon, but *in* the moon. There really isn't much defense except for thicker plating that can be patched/repaired quickly. The nature of physics is such that until we have field deflection systems, even spaceships have some very significant vulnerabilities to small, fast moving objects. The big ones; well, hopefully we can spot the troublesome ones fast enough to do something about them.

A big problem the Earth is going to have in the next hundred years is that of space debris - every time something falls off a satellite or explodes up there, you could have something crazy like a screw the size of a dime moving so fast that it could puncture the shielding of the shuttle and hit an astronaut inside like a sniper bullet. The earth's gravity is such that almost all of those objects would have degrading orbits - the earth cleaning itself up - but ignoring stable-orbit degree it could take decades of untouched space for that to happen by itself.

 

[Quazar]

please tell me, what's their e-mail?

If you look at team member page, you'll see highlighted names. Click on them.

"Meet the team"

http://astrogeology.usgs.gov/About/People/

example after clicking a name:

http://astrogeology.usgs.gov/About/People/JeffJohnson/

 

[The Librarian]

I'm not sure if these have been posted before, so I'll just give the link.

http://www.texasjim.com/NASApix/NASA pix.htm

 

[AndersTheSwede]

I have a few sentences to reply to this comment...

1.-you say oxygen exists on the moon (regolith) don't we breathe more gases that oxygen? if I remember correctly, oxygen is only 21% of what we breathe...

2.-wouldn't that ice or water would be contaminated to drink?

3.-how can we build that betneath the moon when it's hard enough to do it on the surface?

4.-wouldn't a greenhouse need a stable temperature? plus it'd have to be grown very fast to catch demand.

1) Humans can breathe 100% Oxygen (it's what those elderly people with hoses in their noses are breathing). The other gases that we breathe (like Nitrogen) are there as 'buffer gases' since pure Oxygen is highly flammable these gases prevent the Oxygen around us from combustion (see Apollo 1 in which all the astronauts died when a spark lit up their 100& Oxygen environment.) Nitrogen would have to be brought along but its a small percentage compared to the massive amounts of oxygen required.

2.) If it was it could be filtered in the same way cities filter their municipal water on earth.

3.) Part of the equipment brought to construct the base would be some sort of trench digger-regolith mover. It doesn't need to be miles under the dirt, just a few feet.

4.) Temperature would be modulated in the same way living spaces would be. But yes it would be difficult without a large greenhouse to be 100% self-sufficient. But the point of utilizing the moons resources is not necessarily 100% self-sufficiency, but reducing the costs of the mission below a point where the government will actually sign off on it, or corporations see a profit potential from the mining operations.

Yea. Water could still probably be sent from the earth but something cheap and something that travels fast would have to be made. The moon apparently has Helium-3 too which can be used for nuclear fusion.

The question is, what would that fast but cheap vehicle be? No such vehicle exists (or is even planned) and thus no such vehicle can be depended upon existing in 2025 or whatever to build a practical plan around.

Helium 3 would indeed be the only mineable material that would cost enough on the market to provide a profit out of going all the way to the moon to get it ($5.7 Million per Kilogram). But if water isn't found (baring that breakthrough vehicle) then even that isn't financially viable.

It all hinges on the water.