The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Flip flops are awesome. There are at least a few times where I've used a weird arrangement of two flip-flops to get something to happen three times per production cycle.
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SpaceChem |OT| It's Not About Chemistry
- Thread starter 19Kilo
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I did that one without flip flops too (I even posted a video of it the post just before yours).
I've found several uses for them, but I've been against a brick wall for quite a while now :| Quite a tricky mission (can't remember the name right now, but it is in world 7).
divisionbyzorro
Member
Loops, man! Loops!
Not that I'm bragging or anything. My solution wasn't even near the top of the curve.
Nabs
Member
SpaceChem Mobile (iPad) is $1.99 for the next few days.
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/spacechem-mobile/id466007612
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/spacechem-mobile/id466007612
divisionbyzorro
Member
Still (slowly, slowly) working through World 7; just finished 7-4 last night.
It's amazing how stupid you feel when you look at some of the high-level solutions to levels you've finished. If there's a mental gap in the way I play this game, it's rotation: for some reason, I simply can't make myself think about increasing efficiency through rotation. My instinct is to route waldos all over the board to assemble molecules horizontally rather than quickly assemble them vertically and rotate.
It's amazing how stupid you feel when you look at some of the high-level solutions to levels you've finished. If there's a mental gap in the way I play this game, it's rotation: for some reason, I simply can't make myself think about increasing efficiency through rotation. My instinct is to route waldos all over the board to assemble molecules horizontally rather than quickly assemble them vertically and rotate.
Oxigen_Waste
Banned
Kind of on the fence abiut this... Seems like an overly complicated version of trainyard...
Since no one on Gaf will even notice, I want to share my immense satisfaction of finally being able to update my avatar with you guys.
So, FINALLY beaten world 4. Hooray!
(After taking a multiple months long hiatus, it took me the last 5 hours to beat the last 3 levels in that world..)
So, FINALLY beaten world 4. Hooray!
(After taking a multiple months long hiatus, it took me the last 5 hours to beat the last 3 levels in that world..)
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Ahahaha, I guess I really leapfrogged you. I'm still stuck on the second-to-last world though.
Yeah after that certain Steam sale where I got all you guys to buy it, I haven't played it much. You also have some crazy scores on these worlds, geez. But oh well, was really nice to play it again, although the pyramid boss was a pain in the ass since I used the manual switch and that took ages to get it done correctly.
slaughterking
Member
I never played this game beyond the level you needed to complete for the Xmas achievement despite liking it a lot and being very fascinated by it. After the Steam sales were over I simply forgot about it. :I
I think I'll go back to it later today.
I think I'll go back to it later today.
Yup, I just started it up yesterday again too and again realized how much I love this game
I especially love the switches relying on a certain atom to pass by. I wish I could use more of those.Edit:
Also finally asked the devs about the multiple solutions per level saving thing, lets see whether they'll answer.
slaughterking
Member
It's awfully difficult to get back into the game. I still had an unfinished level in the middle of world three and the sight of my overly complicated (and not working) approach kinda put me off. lol
Turns out I'm not in the mood to play that game right now. The music is still beautiful, though!
Turns out I'm not in the mood to play that game right now. The music is still beautiful, though!
I had the same issue at the beginning. The first world I tried seemed utterly ridiculous to me yesterday and 5 minutes ago I created the most complex reactor I've created so far:
It was an optional level, but I am kinda amazed that this thing works without exploding.
Ventilaator
Banned
Why haven't I seen this game before? Holy crap this is awesome. Only a couple levels in and there's still obviously several concepts the game hasn't even introduced yet, but I can already see this ending up to be something remarkable. The screenshots above me of some of the later levels are scary, but I can't wait. I love the tinkering aspect so much.
Good question, quite a few people here (including me) are very vocal about this game. Glad you enjoy it! It truly is a great game. In case you were wondering, the DLC is "only" 6 new levels, but the normal game will keep you easily 50-60 hours busy to play through the campaign, so you dont need to buy that immediately. Wait for a sale.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
This was my GOTY last year. So fucking satisfying solving some of these puzzles: you feel like a god
Ventilaator
Banned
Just had my ass kicked by a level for well over an hour and didn't actually end up solving it.
...
Absolutely loved the process and really want to go back to it.
...
Absolutely loved the process and really want to go back to it.
slaughterking
Member
I just solved the level I was stuck at before. Yay.
I dont even understand how I am supposed to APPROACH the current level I am at currently.. Haha.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Which one are you working on?
5-4 "Falling"
I guess I need to combine Krypton in the first reactor to get Yttrium, and the I push forward some O,H and Kr that I didnt combine to make another distinction between Zr and Nb in the next reactor. Its just that I dont quite know yet how I am supposed to use the elements for creating Yttrium AND for pushing to the next reactor to create Zr and Nb. Also that way I have no extra output left to get rid of some leftovers.
I know there must be something wrong with my thinking, but thats what my head was stuck at currently. Dont tell me the solution yet though! I'll give it another try in the coming days and will complain to you guys for a hint if I still dont manage to do it.
slaughterking
Member
I just finished world 3. Progress!
divisionbyzorro
Member
I just unlocked the boss battle of World 7.
I immediately turned off the game. I don't even know how to start that.
I immediately turned off the game. I don't even know how to start that.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Yup, that one took me about twelve hours. I broke out physical pencil and paper and started writing down what order things would come out in. It was so satisfying to finish it.
divisionbyzorro
Member
In general, I don't actually like the boss battles in this game. The reliance on a mechanic that doesn't appear anywhere else (manual inputs) in order to complete them frustrates me. I much prefer the "wind it up and let it go" style of the standard puzzles.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
At this point I don't care if my solutions are woefully inefficient and I rank terribly on the leaderboards. I'm just glad to finish some of these levels.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Agreed!
It takes a very special type of person to want to own the SpaceChem leaderboards. Besides, I program for a job. There's only so much programming I want to do for fun too.
Ventilaator
Banned
Didn't like the first defense mission very much at all, because it wasn't about logic anymore as much as it was just trial and error regards to the length of the pipes.
But then the next level introduced the idea of two different things coming in through the input and a sensor for redirecting the path as needed.
AwesomeIlovethisgamesomuch
But then the next level introduced the idea of two different things coming in through the input and a sensor for redirecting the path as needed.
AwesomeIlovethisgamesomuch
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Just you wait...just you waiiiit...
Seems like a kickstarter exclusive signed limited edition box copy is getting released.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2131152481/spacechem-limited-edition
I just went ahead and bought this cause I really love this game.
Thought I'd raise awareness here if someone else is stupid enough to pay 25usd for a boxed copy
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2131152481/spacechem-limited-edition
I just went ahead and bought this cause I really love this game.
Thought I'd raise awareness here if someone else is stupid enough to pay 25usd for a boxed copy
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Seems like a kickstarter exclusive signed limited edition box copy is getting released.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2131152481/spacechem-limited-edition
I just went ahead and bought this cause I really love this game.
Thought I'd raise awareness here if someone else is stupid enough to pay 25usd for a boxed copy
Bought.
divisionbyzorro
Member
I wonder if I could get this in Australia?
Also, this reminds me that I need to finally buckle down and beat this game.
Also, this reminds me that I need to finally buckle down and beat this game.
Alright, I am going to make a few posts about the most ineffective solution you guys have ever seen. Here are my stats:
Its like back in school when we had mathematical problems to solve and I thought of one solution and went through with that to the end instead of considering several solutions, out of which I could choose the most efficient one.
When I am done with these posts... please post your own solutions to this. After working for 10-12 hours on this monstrosity, I have no fucking clue how else I should be solving this level.
Sort of makes me feel better about it that a) there was not an achievement about the performance on this level, and b) only 5,8% of all SpaceChem players got this one.
Its like back in school when we had mathematical problems to solve and I thought of one solution and went through with that to the end instead of considering several solutions, out of which I could choose the most efficient one.
When I am done with these posts... please post your own solutions to this. After working for 10-12 hours on this monstrosity, I have no fucking clue how else I should be solving this level.
Sort of makes me feel better about it that a) there was not an achievement about the performance on this level, and b) only 5,8% of all SpaceChem players got this one.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Toma how far are you? Have you gotten to that boss battle yet?
Alright, so the task is World 5 - Challenge: Applied Fusion and looks like this:
We got H2O (Water) and need to turn it into Phosphoric Acid. I thought:
The problem with that was, that a) I did not yet know where to get an additional O if I turn all the H2O into HO immediately and b) how the fuck do I get 7 H and a single O to fuse the P? If someone reading this has not played this far, they later introduce "fusions", which adds up the periodic number of 2 elements to create a third. O(periodic number 8) + H (periodic number 1) fuses into F (periodic number 9). This means to create P, the only solution was to get one O(8) + 7 times H(1) to create P(15).
That was about 12 ingame hours earlier. I tried solving this level on and off over the course of a week, so I felt like FUCKING EINSTEIN when I finally solved it.
Alright, first step: I didnt have a single clue what to do, so I thought about splitting up the individual atoms first:
Next! What to DO now with all those H's and O's!
See this post. This is where I am right now. World 5, Endboss is my next level. Did you already get through the whole game btw?
We got H2O (Water) and need to turn it into Phosphoric Acid. I thought:
The problem with that was, that a) I did not yet know where to get an additional O if I turn all the H2O into HO immediately and b) how the fuck do I get 7 H and a single O to fuse the P? If someone reading this has not played this far, they later introduce "fusions", which adds up the periodic number of 2 elements to create a third. O(periodic number 8) + H (periodic number 1) fuses into F (periodic number 9). This means to create P, the only solution was to get one O(8) + 7 times H(1) to create P(15).
That was about 12 ingame hours earlier. I tried solving this level on and off over the course of a week, so I felt like FUCKING EINSTEIN when I finally solved it.
Alright, first step: I didnt have a single clue what to do, so I thought about splitting up the individual atoms first:
I realize that this might not have been the smartest idea in the world, if there is a way to keep the OH for attachment, but ah well. My thought was to divide them, so I have a steady stream of H's and O's in whatever quantity I need them. This reactor doesnt do terribly much. It just grabs the H2O molecule at the O atom, unbonds them and carries the O atom to the upper output while using the red Waldo to carry the remaining H's to the lower output.
Next! What to DO now with all those H's and O's!
See this post. This is where I am right now. World 5, Endboss is my next level. Did you already get through the whole game btw?
Sooo, second part.
Now that I got all the H's and O's divided into different input fields, I wanted to take care of creating the P atom for which I need exactly 1 O and 7 H to fuse them together. For that, my second reactor was based on the idea of starting out with an O, and fusing H into it until it is finally a P, done. Sounds easy enough, right? WRONG:
The tricky part here was to actually have the Waldos take enough H's to the O. I simply did not have enough space to create enough loops to do that. Since I wasnt able to get 7 H in a row and fuse it with the atom that is supposed to become the P due to space reasons, I only had this reactor do this twice and after each time it was done, it sent the now fused atom to a second reactor right below:
Another major problem here, was how to deal with any output I didnt need for my P atom. To get 1 P atom, I needed 1 O and 7 H. To get these, I needed 4H2O, which in turn have 3 O and 1 H I did NOT need. To accustom for that, I had a mechanism in the first reactor of this post, which would check for certain intervals and instead of fusing them, would immediately put these H and O rests forward to the next reactor:
There you can see the way of the rest atoms, which would be needed for the next reactor, as well as the finally fused P atom.
Next post coming up.
Now that I got all the H's and O's divided into different input fields, I wanted to take care of creating the P atom for which I need exactly 1 O and 7 H to fuse them together. For that, my second reactor was based on the idea of starting out with an O, and fusing H into it until it is finally a P, done. Sounds easy enough, right? WRONG:
The tricky part here was to actually have the Waldos take enough H's to the O. I simply did not have enough space to create enough loops to do that. Since I wasnt able to get 7 H in a row and fuse it with the atom that is supposed to become the P due to space reasons, I only had this reactor do this twice and after each time it was done, it sent the now fused atom to a second reactor right below:
which, simple enough, checked whether the atom already is a P atom, or not. If not, it went back to the reactor before to add another 2 H atoms. Rinse and repeat until the P atom has been fused, which then is send back to the next part of this reactor.
Another major problem here, was how to deal with any output I didnt need for my P atom. To get 1 P atom, I needed 1 O and 7 H. To get these, I needed 4H2O, which in turn have 3 O and 1 H I did NOT need. To accustom for that, I had a mechanism in the first reactor of this post, which would check for certain intervals and instead of fusing them, would immediately put these H and O rests forward to the next reactor:
There you can see the way of the rest atoms, which would be needed for the next reactor, as well as the finally fused P atom.
Next post coming up.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Ahahahaha, no, that is not "that boss" yet. You will know the boss when you get to it. You will stare at your screen and say, out loud, "what the fuck?". You will think for a moment that your game has glitched. And when you solve it you will feel like the king of everything.
Not even the final boss even, I'm still stuck at the...second to last world I think.
Not even the final boss even, I'm still stuck at the...second to last world I think.
Now I thought I got everything set up! But I was WRONG once again! Just because I finally have the P and "rests" which amounted to H and O which I still needed anyway, wasnt anywhere near the finish line for this level.
My next idea was to attach/bond the O's to the P and then in a last step, attach the H's in the last reactor.
The major pain here was, that I, again, did not have enough space to freely plan this. One of the biggest reasons for that was that I had H's between my O's which needed to be sorted out. The rhythm in which my atoms arrived was O,O,O,H,O,O,O,H,O,O,O, so I started working on a reactor that would use all the O's for bonding with the P and grab the levtover H's to put them forward into the next reactor. This would have been WAY easier if I had the same sequence of O's and H's every time I started to create a new PO4.
BUT NO, the level said. Since I had O,O,O,H,O,O,O,H input, the first PO4 molecule was done with a loop of waldos that would take a P, then add the first O, then add the second O, then add the third O, discard the first H and lastly add the 4th and last O for the finished PO4. I was already jubilating when I got this far, but I havent noticed at the time that the real trouble was just about to start. Everything I planned in this reactor, ONLY worked with the sequence of O,O,O,H,O to create the PO4. Now that the next sequence would be O,O,H,O,O my whole reactor was screwed up. The third atom, which earlier was an O and was supposed to be attached to the P, now is an H and wont be discarded as I want it to.
Luckily enough, after several hours of sweating and brooding, I was able to find a way to restructure my loops so that they would only grab/bind atoms in a certain position:
Now I finally created PO4, and had H left over. The last reactor fusing 3 H with PO4 was just a cakewalk then:
Holy crap
42k cycles hard? I mean, I just made this thing so fucking hard for myself. I am sure that I solved actual harder levels in less time by simply using a more effective solution, damnit.
How did you solve this one?
Edit: And yeah, I'd be surprised if I finished world 6 this year still -_- My rate of progression is painfully slow in this game. Still fun, but takes a while.
My next idea was to attach/bond the O's to the P and then in a last step, attach the H's in the last reactor.
The major pain here was, that I, again, did not have enough space to freely plan this. One of the biggest reasons for that was that I had H's between my O's which needed to be sorted out. The rhythm in which my atoms arrived was O,O,O,H,O,O,O,H,O,O,O, so I started working on a reactor that would use all the O's for bonding with the P and grab the levtover H's to put them forward into the next reactor. This would have been WAY easier if I had the same sequence of O's and H's every time I started to create a new PO4.
BUT NO, the level said. Since I had O,O,O,H,O,O,O,H input, the first PO4 molecule was done with a loop of waldos that would take a P, then add the first O, then add the second O, then add the third O, discard the first H and lastly add the 4th and last O for the finished PO4. I was already jubilating when I got this far, but I havent noticed at the time that the real trouble was just about to start. Everything I planned in this reactor, ONLY worked with the sequence of O,O,O,H,O to create the PO4. Now that the next sequence would be O,O,H,O,O my whole reactor was screwed up. The third atom, which earlier was an O and was supposed to be attached to the P, now is an H and wont be discarded as I want it to.
Luckily enough, after several hours of sweating and brooding, I was able to find a way to restructure my loops so that they would only grab/bind atoms in a certain position:
Now I finally created PO4, and had H left over. The last reactor fusing 3 H with PO4 was just a cakewalk then:
Holy crap
42k cycles hard? I mean, I just made this thing so fucking hard for myself. I am sure that I solved actual harder levels in less time by simply using a more effective solution, damnit.
How did you solve this one?
Edit: And yeah, I'd be surprised if I finished world 6 this year still -_- My rate of progression is painfully slow in this game. Still fun, but takes a while.
divisionbyzorro
Member
I'll try to remember to look up what I did for this level when I get home.
I think this might be one of those where I built a pseudo garbage bin by making a huge snake of pipe, but this one was a long, long time ago. I'm still stuck on that boss battle that Technomancer is referring to.
I think this might be one of those where I built a pseudo garbage bin by making a huge snake of pipe, but this one was a long, long time ago. I'm still stuck on that boss battle that Technomancer is referring to.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Doesn't look like I've tackled that challenge yet actually, I think I'm saving them for the post-campaign.
MacGurcules
Member
Aw, I liked that level. They do give you just enough atoms to do it cleanly. I did it in three steps, myself. Not the most efficient probably, but enough to make it into the first plateau on number of cycles (2689).
I'm sure there are more elegant ways to do it, but that was the most obvious one to me.
First step: Simply separate all of the H and O from the water and pass them individually to the second reactor.
Second step: I used one control loop to grab one O and input seven H's to fuse with the O to make a P while the second track ran a delay. Then the second track bypassed three more H's to the third reactor while the control loop bonded four O's to the P.
Third step: Bond the H's to the phosphate and pass it to the collector.
Second step: I used one control loop to grab one O and input seven H's to fuse with the O to make a P while the second track ran a delay. Then the second track bypassed three more H's to the third reactor while the control loop bonded four O's to the P.
Third step: Bond the H's to the phosphate and pass it to the collector.
I'm sure there are more elegant ways to do it, but that was the most obvious one to me.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Yeah, I just logged in and realized that I apparently didn't actually play that level.
Bah, seeing this just reminds me that I need to find my SATA->IDE adapter to salvage my savegames from my dead laptop.
I don't know the exact numbers, but my solution for the last Moustachium challenge was so ridiculously over the average on both symbols used and cycles. I really wish the game let you save multiple solutions to a problem, since as much as I'd like to try and refine some of my more clunky monstrosities, I can't bear to part with them.
I don't know the exact numbers, but my solution for the last Moustachium challenge was so ridiculously over the average on both symbols used and cycles. I really wish the game let you save multiple solutions to a problem, since as much as I'd like to try and refine some of my more clunky monstrosities, I can't bear to part with them.
I contacted the dev about that. He said they dont work on SpaceChem anymore, but I could just use a different save profile for new solutions. Like playing through the game once, backing up my savegame, then using a 2nd savegame to try new solutions in a level. That way you'd still have all the solutions at least.
gutterboy44
Member
This game is so god damn rewarding. I am not really a puzzle game player but this game pushes all of the right buttons in my brain. The logic of it, the slow build to a seemingly insurmountable task, even the "pseudo" chemistry is fulfilling. I think I left off on 4-5 last night. One puzzle is normally all I can handle in one sitting at this point. Often I can tell I am not "in the zone" and I take in a little bit, mess around and then quit for the night. Sure enough I will sit down a few days later or whatever and tackle it way better. Such an awesome feeling when your brain finally resolves this hidden logic that you swore wasn't there, and impossible to overcome.
Brilliant game, so glad I finally picked it up during the Summer Sale.
Brilliant game, so glad I finally picked it up during the Summer Sale.
Quote
Member
I just started playing a couple hours ago. This game is amazing. My current proud achievement. http://www.youtube.com/watch?hd=1&v=9Z46o13FMm8
I can't help but feel there are way more efficient ways to do these, but I'm sure I'll learn that as I play. I don't want to sound like a broken record, but every puzzle is super rewarding.
I can't help but feel there are way more efficient ways to do these, but I'm sure I'll learn that as I play. I don't want to sound like a broken record, but every puzzle is super rewarding.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
The game definitely stays that way. By the latter levels you'll spend upwards of five hours on a single puzzle and be so exhausted you can only do one every day or so, but you just. can't. stop.
Just take it with you.
Member
I bought this game a while ago and have been working my way through it intermittently. It's pretty fun, but I have to take breaks when my brain starts getting fried.
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