The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Yeah as much as I love SpaceX I really do think this problem needs more money than a private company can reasonably put towards it :/
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SpaceX Attempting 1st Stage Landing After Rocket Launch (AKA Crazy Space Stuff)
- Thread starter DrForester
- Start date
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Yeah as much as I love SpaceX I really do think this problem needs more money than a private company can reasonably put towards it :/
0.1.1.2.3.5.8.13.21.34.55
Banned
shame... I want to see space X succeed.
guess it's time to build a space elevator.
guess it's time to build a space elevator.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I mean, they do launches all the time, this is more of a setback for SpaceX than it is for space travel in the abstract
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Isn't NASA designing their own heavy launcher system?
E-Cat
Member
They have to build a new one for each launch. This is why they're trying so hard to make their rockets reusable!
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
oh yea, lol.
For some reason I was under the impression that they were just reusing parts of the other Falcon 9's that were tipping over during the failed landing events XD
Getting self-replicating robots into space STILL requires escaping earth's gravity, and the same for the asteroid equipment. Developing asteroid-using, self-replicating robots and safe asteroid retrieval / mining technology are yet more things we still don't have as far as I know, and I feel like either would qualify as the sort of "miracle breakthrough" the earlier poster mentioned.
Bit of a setback for SpaceX. Before this incident it almost seemed like landing the spent stage on a barge was the biggest concern. Almost forgot how temperamental the launches themselves can be.
On the plus side, this has happened now, before manned flights and lessons can be learnt for that.
On the plus side, this has happened now, before manned flights and lessons can be learnt for that.
Insane Metal
Member
Too bad. It's also sad that NASA's LDSD mission has also failed twice.
I've never seen an explosion like this before, its like dust particles afterwards. That's crazy
Turns out getting to space is pretty damn hard haha
TharpDaddy
Member
Damn. Better for it to happen now and get figured out rather than later on when there are people aboard.
Not a great birthday for Elon Musk.
Not a great birthday for Elon Musk.
Jezbollah
Member
So from what others have seen so far, it looks to be some kind of aerodynamic issue either at the front near the dragon capsule or the second stage. Looking at slow-mo, this is where the aircraft starts breaking up - velocity is obviously affected and the airforce would have sent the destruct signal.
Fenderputty
Banned
Yeah but this does highlight the inherent danger of strapping yourself to a rocket engine. Lol
ChoklitReign
Member
Holy shit, I watched the launch from 528 near the Banana River and I had no idea it exploded! I even filmed the goddamn thing and thought it was beautiful. I stopped filming when I stopped seeing it (lots of clouds btw) and the crowd cheered shortly after. I guess it was from too far away to see the explosion and falling debris - it's certainly apparent on the livestream. What fucking bad luck for my first rocket launch.
Video's here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eQTjD59pMQ
Video's here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eQTjD59pMQ
I'll just wish for them to tell us what went wrong. Trying to peice it together from a tiny spec in a wobbly video is pointless. It could have been any number of things that failed.
Musk always seems quite public about the failures so I'm sure this time will be no different.
I think it was the left dange flangle. Those always cause problems.
i think What you're seeing there is a fairing. Been rewatching the video and my thoughts were second stage or crew abort system prematurely fired or exploded. First stage is firing well into the explosion.
NASA website says eastern range confirmed breakup of falcon and dragon, so yeah...
Bummer.
EDIT: More speculation - if you rewatch in slow mo, its possible you're seeing some burn though towards the top of the rocket a split second before it explodes. Could be a reflection, but its curious that it happens just before, and right at the area that seems to have failed.
Jezbollah
Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=141&v=u5Nk3b42NkY
^^ this is the much clearer footage I just saw from Sky.
From reddit:
"Preliminary amateur analysis of video footage shows that the likely source of the explosion was the second stage tankage. The airframe of the second stage appears to have failed, releasing propellants and the Dragon from the booster. In one hour's time we'll hear from the experts at the post-flight conference, who may be able to either confirm or deny this."
^^ this is the much clearer footage I just saw from Sky.
From reddit:
"Preliminary amateur analysis of video footage shows that the likely source of the explosion was the second stage tankage. The airframe of the second stage appears to have failed, releasing propellants and the Dragon from the booster. In one hour's time we'll hear from the experts at the post-flight conference, who may be able to either confirm or deny this."
I'm pretty sure it exploded in that video right at the end.
Shining Sunshine
Banned
Another billion dollars down the drain for fruitless attempts.
Jezbollah
Member
Helpful comment. This is SpaceX's first failure in 7 years, and the first for Falcon 9.
Lol what? The cost of Falcon 9 + Dragon is somewhere around 100-150 million dollars for NASA.
This was the first failure of Falcon 9 and it was the 18th flight. Not too shabby record IMO, although the failure was still very disappointing..
s_mirage
Member
Ditto. The big puff of smoke looks like the start of the explosion.
TekGryphon
Banned
Not true. It doesn't cost SpaceX a billion dollars to create a single rocket.
The great thing about SpaceX is that the rockets are entirely assembled in-house using current technology and is about 1/3 the price of the nearest competitor. That and many others, like Russia, use really old tech to boot.
One failed launch is a setback, sure. But they'll get back up to speed. Getting to Space is actually incredibly hard, especially when you have 4 thousand pounds of supplies to liftoff.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
This mission was something like 1.6 billion.
edit: I guess that's the whole mission, not just this launch.
No, it was somewhere around 100-150 million dollars. That 1.8 billion $ is the value of the whole CRS contract, which consists of 12(?) cargo missions.
The only thing that bothers me, apart from the inconvenience, is that the dragon capsule was apparently destroyed. They might have to reevaluate the crew abort system.
Like the hat?
Banned
Chris Hadfield did a periscope broadcast about it. Should be available to replay.
Jezbollah
Member
One of their next projects for Crew Dragon is the in-flight launch system. Dragon v1 is unmanned, and have no requirement for an abort mechanism. They tested the pad abort system for Crew Dragon last month. The lack of such a system for Dragon 1 means a loss of cargo is an accepted risk for all CRS launches.
The more I see of this failure, the more I think it's a second stage issue - and Dragon v1 or Crew Dragon, they need (and will) fix it.
Jezbollah
Member
Elon Musk: "There was an overpressure event in the upper stage liquid oxygen tank. Data suggests counterintuitive cause."
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/615185076813459456
EDIT: Follow up: "That's all we can say with confidence right now. Will have more to say following a thorough fault tree analysis."
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/615185076813459456
EDIT: Follow up: "That's all we can say with confidence right now. Will have more to say following a thorough fault tree analysis."
valkillmore
Member
Wait, isn't today his birthday as well. What a bummer present.
Shining Sunshine
Banned
I'm thinking of another billionaire's venture into space with Virgin Galactic's failure and a death of a pilot.
We should accept the fact that there is no way we can land on Mars on chemical propellent ideas and stop wasting resources.
ScepticMatt
Member
That's because it's a controlled explosion
Upper stage oxygen tank burst for some reason (the reason for the white cloud/dust you see from T+2:19)
Following that range initiates flight termination system at T:2:27 ish (i.e. self-destruct)
Jezbollah
Member
150 years ago people were saying the same thing about flying..
Why not?
Give me a break.
You can see from one of the views that the original "explosion" actually didn't combust, which implies oxidiser only. The fuel tank and actual explosion were probably triggered by ground control going by nasas website.
Edit: Beaten...
I just cant...
This is akin to saying we should ban air travel because sometimes planes crash.
Yeah, I went back and checked the pre-launch footage and noticed the crew abort was absent, which i kind of have a problem with. I mean, i know it's going to add a couple of bucks to the launch cost, but if it had been present today, it would have been a really fucking good demonstration of how well it works, or doesnt.
EDIT:
Or is v1 not compatible with the crew abort system?
Jezbollah
Member
Excellent.
I have http://www.ustream.tv/nasahdtv running in the background at the moment. Hopefully we'll see the press conference pop up soon after the half hour.
Your reply reminded me of one of my favourite space videos
And yes, v1 is not compatible, it does not contain the Super Draco thrusters in it that the v2 launch abort systems use.
Shining Sunshine
Banned
I wish people would stop making such stupid analogies.
Conquering air is nothing compared to conquering the Sun's radiation.
GoldenEye 007
Member
We can never land a man on the moon.
Backfeed from the stabilizer system.
The turbopumps aren't supposed to do that.
Thus, counterintuitive.
I miss playing Balderdash. Holy crap, thread Balderdash support. I have to patent that. I'll make millions.
Probably not. It's being designed for v2 and making it work with v1 would probably cost a lot and require lots of testing & man-hours.
SpaceX is planning to try in-flight abort with the Dragon 2 capsule sometime before the crewed flight (even though it is not required by NASA), so I'm sure they'll get data from that.
The sun's radiation is a huge hurdle for the actual trip but what does it have to do with the propulsion of the spacecraft?
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