they weren't out to kill civilians..
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Special edition of Charlie Hebdo will feauture caricatures of Mohammed
- Thread starter RandyBobandy
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they weren't out to kill civilians..
I don't consider cartoonists soldiers.
RustyNails
Member
Thats the dude that got kicked out of a festivel for being too handsome. HahaAs discussed a few pages back he's too brown for me. He should be his guy's colour:
Arjen
Member
Really?? Racist? That movie is one off the most funny and heartwarming I've seen.
English isn't my first language. French guy here
What's the difference between Intouchable and Untouchable ?
Thanks
English isn't my first language. French guy here
What's the difference between Intouchable and Untouchable ?
Thanks
You're right don't worry, Les Intouchables = The Untouchables.
I think they titled it as The Intouchables in some countries though rather than translating it. It was just Untouchable in the UK.
Nicktendo86
Member
Thanks for posting that link, very informative. Context, as always, is everything.
Same here. Everyone i know loved the movie. It was a big hit all around Europe and a mega hit in France with 20 million tickets sold ( population of France : 65M)
Thanks
English isn't my first language. French guy here
What's the difference between Intouchable and Untouchable ?
Thanks
Intouchable isn't proper English. But it's a better English title for the movie in America so as to avoid confusion with "The Untouchables", Eliot Ness' team of prohibition agents and the TV show and movie inspired by them.
Sure, just like some people take offense to South Park's numerous gags like The Wheel of Fortune segment even with its context. Or how Adult Swim's Black Jesus got a lot of hate mail before it even aired. Freedom is great.
In the USA blacks and Jews are also satirized with racist caricatures.
But the problem in the USA is not with satire, but when racist caricatures become mascots for millionaires and their millions of fans a la Washington Redskins and the Cleveland Indians. Charlie Hebdo and South Park are small game compared to that. However that's another topic.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
They should have translated it "Very Bad People".
ComputerMKII
Banned
Charlie Hebdo has received 1 million in donations (Source: BFMTV)
Veritigo_X
Member
The people they killed weren't civilians?
That's what they said, you believe that?
I'm pretty sure they believed that. They had a distorded view of what an "innocent civilian" is (or rather isn't), but they ""spared"" a lot of people they could have killed.
If they wanted to make a blood bath, they could have done much, much worse.
As crazy as it might sound, that's exactly what happened. They did spare a lof of people and could have taken hostages but they didn't ... They let the one hostage in the printing house go.
Remember that they were lunatics of the worst kind, coldhearted killers who killed 12 people in cold blood. And yet in their twisted minds they were only killing soldiers (cartoonists and police officers) and not civilians. They considered cartoonists at war against " Islam " and their prophet. There's nothing to understand but that's how they saw it ...
Naked Snake
Member
I've been very active on Facebook since the incident, mostly sharing pro-CH links and images, but there was an irritation growing in me from seeing all the ignorant and misrepresented posts by other people and me not having the intellect or the patience necessary to write my own responses and posts. So today I copied a lot from this thread and put it together in a couple of posts.
I'm sharing them here because I want to first thank you for helping me flesh out my understanding of this whole thing, and to say sorry that I "stole" your posts without asking. I honestly didn't think any of you would mind (posts on GAF are public after all, and I made it clear that I am not the author of those words).
I removed personally identifying information, but I suspect it wouldn't be hard for detective-GAF to find the original posts since they are public.
I was shaking as I wrote my second response to my friend (where I talked about my mother), and I started crying and sobbed for a good minute or two. I don't remember the last time I did that.
I'm sharing them here because I want to first thank you for helping me flesh out my understanding of this whole thing, and to say sorry that I "stole" your posts without asking. I honestly didn't think any of you would mind (posts on GAF are public after all, and I made it clear that I am not the author of those words).
I removed personally identifying information, but I suspect it wouldn't be hard for detective-GAF to find the original posts since they are public.
I was shaking as I wrote my second response to my friend (where I talked about my mother), and I started crying and sobbed for a good minute or two. I don't remember the last time I did that.
ComputerMKII
Banned
Drawing from tomorrow's issue:
Cartoonist at Charlie Hebdo: 25 years of work
Terrorist: 25 seconds of work
Terrorist - A job for lazy people and wankers
Cartoonist at Charlie Hebdo: 25 years of work
Terrorist: 25 seconds of work
Terrorist - A job for lazy people and wankers
Good job man
Having grown up in a religious family too (christian), I really can relate to that feeling. Awesome too see how you are standing up for what you think is right!It's mocking the second biggest religion in the world, not the average muslim. If they take offense, that's a religious issue and some muslims, including repressed minorities like the Saudi royals are killing other muslims often because of those same issues they have with blasphemy that ended up killing Hebdo.
Fom the guy who took a bullet in the arm. Glad he started drawing again.
Yeah you're right; all those soldiers and officers they shot up in that military base knew what they were getting into when they signed up for the serv- what in god's fuck man.
Seriously?
RustyNails
Member
Khutbah (Friday Sermon) by hugely popular and well-respected Muslim scholar Nouman Ali Khan (USA) in response to Charlie Hebdo attacks.
Naked Snake
Member
Can you do a tl;dw digest?
ComputerMKII
Banned
Libération's front page:
not psycho
Member
Some would argue that in an unequal world, religion serves the powerful. Hence the famous saying that religion is the opiate of the masses. That certainly seems more plausible than mocking serving the powerful. There are probably governments out there right now which use a religion as the basis of their law and oppress their people. Religion is huge and powerful and absolutely must not be above criticism and mocking. The refusal, then, to let any religion stand above criticism and mocking, would serve the downtrodden.
However, since that article failed to actually make a case for why mocking serves the powerful, I'm not sure it is worth making a counterpoint. It is an empty statement with nothing to argue against.
To go back to an earlier point, I have no idea how people who stretch themselves past the breaking point trying to say religion is above mocking can be so lacking in self reflection. Religion, by all accounts, is one of the most offensive things humans have created. I'm not saying it's evil, or even that the good resulting from religion has not outweighed the bad. I'm simply saying it is offensive. The views expressed in religious texts, and by many religious people, on women, slaves, beating, punishment, etc, are extremely offensive. Freedom of offensive speech is the cornerstone of religious freedom. By fighting against it you would be disclaiming your own freedom of religion.
| Praxis |
Banned
I think you're misunderstanding what nilbog was trying to say. They purposefully didn't kill numerous people to make a point, those that they killed were not civilians to them. They car jacked a number of people without harming them, robbed a garage without casualties, bumped into a guy turning up for an interview at the factory and told him to leave (even shook his hand and told him they didn't kill civillians) and released the one guy who they found in the factory after one of them had some bandages applied and coffee made by him. They did all of that to try and make a point that the West Kill civilians in their campaigns. They made all of this clear in an interview on French television.
They were obviously deluded assholes, but that was their logic.
Naked Snake
Member
Great post. The mental gymnastics on display by religion apologists boggles my mind.
RustyNails
Member
Its a really good sermon...Half of it deals with self-reflection self-criticism for Muslims. Other parts talk about not being a violent asshole when dealing with criticism.
I think this about sums up how I feel, growing up in a predominantely Islamic household, that way of thinking is asinine. Religions can and should be criticised as an institution and people should really seperate from the thought that they(the worshipers) are being criticised because someone is critical of the religion.
Anyways great post.
What any given individual or group mocks isn't what is important. Whether you live in an environment where you are free to mock anything and everything is.
The building maintenance worker wasn't a civilian?
Cheesecakebobby
Banned
And I guess to Islamists Jews are never just civilians either.
Not just talking about those slaughtered in the kosher shop either. At least one of the two Jews at Charlie Hebdo was specifically targeted because they were Jewish (the only woman killed in the attack, who had previously received numerous anti-semitic death threats).
While the solidarity with Charlie Hebdo has been wonderful to see, it would be nice to see some more recognition that not only were cartoonists killed simply for exercising free speech but that Jews were killed simply for being Jews, after a year in which anti-semitic attacks soared and the number of Jews leaving France for Israel doubled (making France the number 1 origin of immigrants to the country).
Not just talking about those slaughtered in the kosher shop either. At least one of the two Jews at Charlie Hebdo was specifically targeted because they were Jewish (the only woman killed in the attack, who had previously received numerous anti-semitic death threats).
While the solidarity with Charlie Hebdo has been wonderful to see, it would be nice to see some more recognition that not only were cartoonists killed simply for exercising free speech but that Jews were killed simply for being Jews, after a year in which anti-semitic attacks soared and the number of Jews leaving France for Israel doubled (making France the number 1 origin of immigrants to the country).
Cheesecakebobby
Banned
You have to ask because you think that anyone who cares about France's Jews being literally under attack must work for the Israeli government?
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Are the terrorists attacking Charlie Hebdo the ones responsible for delivering the anti-semitic death threats to the lady?
If not, you are speaking as if even if Charlie Hebdo did not make those Muhammad cartoons, the terrorists would still come to the office to kill the lady anyways just because of her being a Jew.
So, were they the ones responsible delivering those threats?
Both the president and the prime minister attended the ceremony in tribut of our dead dead jewish brothers at the synagogue. Our prime minister, other governement executives and intellectuals said again and again that France without Jews wasn't France anymore. The prime minister said in a historic speech that the fight against anti-semitism was one of France top priorities. He said a small part of our youth hate jews and that's unacceptable. As someone born and raised in Paris, it is true that in a few neighborhoods, you can't walk down the street wearing a kippa or you'll be targeted by thugs. Yes thugs. Not normal people, not random muslims (muslims and Jews have been living in peace for decades in neighbourhoods like Sarcelles until last summer where a bunch of rioters started attacking jewish shops during the israeli attack on Gaza). It's the same thugs who attack everyone and are a poison to our society but who are they targeting the most ? Jews. And yes most of these thugs are 2nd or 3rd generation of muslim/african immigrants.
I'm French and i feel offended that people think that French people are antisemites. Ffs ...France was the first country where Jews got full citizenship back during Napoleon's reign. I'm not denying what's happened during the second world war but Now it's like Jews are some marginalised community living in terror, which is not the case at all.
Yes Jews are tired of being the target of radical islamists, who always say they are avenging the palestinians (palestinians didn't ask them to kill innocent people in their names). Yes jews are scared for their children and i understand that a lot of them are thinking about moving to Israel. Yes the palestinian-israli conflit is being used to brain-wash some of the muslim youth " Look at how Jews and Americans are killing innocent palestinian muslim children and nobody gives a fuck. Look at how every country is bowing to Israel and saying Israel is the victim etc.... etc... ". And innocent people who have nothing to do with the situation there are paying the most heavy price for it. As one of the dad's victim said, it was safer to live as a Jew in a muslim country like Tunisia (he is a rabbi in Tunisia) than it is to live in France.
This new anti-semitism, as horrible as it is, as scary as it is, originates from the fact that palestinians stil live in an open prison. And it's been going on for decades. I know it's a truth that most jews don't accept to admit. Unfortunately it's the sad reality. I'm not saying that if there wasn't a conflit, then Jews would be loved by everyone, There would still be antisemites, like back in the days. But those are so marginalised that they would have no impact at all. And i'm not saying that jews are responsible of what's happening in Palestine right now, they are not. And i'm not trying to justify the action of lunatics who go and kill innocent jews or of anti-semites who use that as a pretext to spread their hate of jews. But Today's antisemitism, the one that is resulting in innocent jews getting killed, is the result of that conflict, radical islam and young thugs getting radicalised and asked to kill jews to avenge palestinians.. There are still a few far-right wingers ideologues but they have a tiny audience and no real impact on our society. I'm afraid that as long as there is no peace in Israel and Palestine, as long as we keep turning our back to the harsh reality that the conflict has repercussions all over the fucking world, and it's way way more than a simple land dispute and that every nation should be working hard to resolve it and not just showing solidarity for every side, then tensions between communities will keep rising.
Having a caricature of Obama regurgitating FOX news talking points in a speech bubble isn't satire.
South Park is a great example of contemporary satire in that it ridicules current society from all angles without limiting itself to a political agenda.
Herb Alpert
Banned
That's just dumb to say this.
They killed civilians. They even killed a woman.
Don't try to portray them as proud virtuous soldiers.
They killed unarmed people with war guns because these people made some drawings. That is the reality.
The editor is saying that 1 million copies have already been delivered to retail outlets in France.
All retailers are out of stock .
It's 10:30 and every copie has already been sold. Truly amazing.
They are going to print 2M more copies, making it 5M. I hope I'll be able to snatch one here in Montreal in a few hours !
All retailers are out of stock .
It's 10:30 and every copie has already been sold. Truly amazing.
They are going to print 2M more copies, making it 5M. I hope I'll be able to snatch one here in Montreal in a few hours !
Vivalaraza
Member
Are the cartoons from this issue available to view online?
ComputerMKII
Banned
Good job, terrorists, your plan totally worked
twdnewh_k
Member
Sorry I was not clear, I was not referring to the content. I meant the depiction of the prophet in cartoon form.
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