Support NeoGAF

[Winterfang]

Thats the dude that got kicked out of a festivel for being too handsome. Haha

LOL the crow served that day.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Hmm, I cannot say I agree.

I understand why they are doing it, but I feel it will do more harm than good.
I will personally boycott this, as it is offensive to me.

Hope no one gets hurt as a result.

Personally boycotting this is a perfectly acceptable option if you don't like it. No one is asking people to agree with Charlie Hebdo.

 

[Chariot]

Thats the dude that got kicked out of a festivel for being too handsome. Haha

The hell, I just looked it up. My god!

 

[Bluekaveli]

Anyone willing to ship me a copy?

 

[Chariot]

Bork. Only 10.000 in all of germany apparently... the digital edition it is.
Wherever I can get one.

 

[Sutton Dagger]

I've been very active on Facebook since the incident, mostly sharing pro-CH links and images, but there was an irritation growing in me from seeing all the ignorant and misrepresented posts by other people and me not having the intellect or the patience necessary to write my own responses and posts. So today I copied a lot from this thread and put it together in a couple of posts.

I'm sharing them here because I want to first thank you for helping me flesh out my understanding of this whole thing, and to say sorry that I "stole" your posts without asking. I honestly didn't think any of you would mind (posts on GAF are public after all, and I made it clear that I am not the author of those words).

I removed personally identifying information, but I suspect it wouldn't be hard for detective-GAF to find the original posts since they are public.



I was shaking as I wrote my second response to my friend (where I talked about my mother), and I started crying and sobbed for a good minute or two. I don't remember the last time I did that.

Good on you mate, your situation must be bloody tough. Awesome that you used a couple of sentences of mine
Keep on truckin...

 

[Mimosa97]

Sorry I was not clear, I was not referring to the content. I meant the depiction of the prophet in cartoon form.

he is depicted in a " cartoonish " way but he doesn't look bad or funny. I think it gives a very good image about the prophet, saying he must be sad to see that lunatics are killing in his name. The cartoonist think that if he was alive he would promote peace rather than violence. How is that offensive ?

But again, if it's the mere depiction of the prophet (which if i understand isn't even forbidden in the Qu'ran, but there's a debate about that) that offends you, then i get it. Your loss though.

 

[Brannon]

I think you're misunderstanding what nilbog was trying to say. They purposefully didn't kill numerous people to make a point, those that they killed were not civilians to them. They car jacked a number of people without harming them, robbed a garage without casualties, bumped into a guy turning up for an interview at the factory and told him to leave (even shook his hand and told him they didn't kill civillians) and released the one guy who they found in the factory after one of them had some bandages applied and coffee made by him. They did all of that to try and make a point that the West Kill civilians in their campaigns. They made all of this clear in an interview on French television.

They were obviously deluded assholes, but that was their logic.

Oh, well. um. You know. Crap I suck

 

[methane47]

this so much.
For anyone who has not already seen it:

These opinions are making it seem like the cartoons are just mocking people for mocking sake... and not reacting to some current or immediate past event.

Having a black man falling out of tree has no context, has no value but to say Black people are Monkeys.

While many (I'm not going to say all) cartoons from CH have been in relation to some violence done or other terrible decisions done.

I'm not excusing them for firing the guy who did the jew cartoon, but its not like they are making cartoons in a Vacuum.

These cartoons are making a statement.

 

[RandyBobandy]

Thats the dude that got kicked out of a festivel for being too handsome. Haha

Lol what a legend

 

[Mimosa97]

I think you're misunderstanding what nilbog was trying to say. They purposefully didn't kill numerous people to make a point, those that they killed were not civilians to them. They car jacked a number of people without harming them, robbed a garage without casualties, bumped into a guy turning up for an interview at the factory and told him to leave (even shook his hand and told him they didn't kill civillians) and released the one guy who they found in the factory after one of them had some bandages applied and coffee made by him. They did all of that to try and make a point that the West Kill civilians in their campaigns. They made all of this clear in an interview on French television.

They were obviously deluded assholes, but that was their logic.

+1000

Great post.

 

[Raist]

this so much.
For anyone who has not already seen it:

This is quite a stupid cartoon and completely misses the point.
Can't shake the feeling that it's basically about "see I'm a nicer/better cartoonist than these guys".

 

[Valhelm]

As discussed a few pages back he's too brown for me. He should be his guy's colour:

Saudi is pretty diverse, though. Muhammad might have been darker. We don't really know.

 

[Cheesecakebobby]

Are the terrorists attacking Charlie Hebdo the ones responsible for delivering the anti-semitic death threats to the lady?

If not, you are speaking as if even if Charlie Hebdo did not make those Muhammad cartoons, the terrorists would still come to the office to kill the lady anyways just because of her being a Jew.

So, were they the ones responsible delivering those threats?

I was rather implying that these terrorists, who apparently were selective in who they killed, spared every woman in the building except a Jew, which yeah could be a coincidence, along with their nonsensical statements that what they did was also to support Palestine (not sure how they were doing that) and of course their accomplice happened to choose a kosher supermarket.

Death threats aren't usually signed with a return address/ left on a machine along with a mobile number but her family are definitely of the belief that she was targeted in the attack due to being Jewish.

Both the president and the prime minister attended the ceremony in tribut of our dead dead jewish brothers at the synagogue. Our prime minister, other governement executives and intellectuals said again and again that France without Jews wasn't France anymore. The prime minister said in a historic speech that the fight against anti-semitism was one of France top priorities. He said a small part of our youth hate jews and that's unacceptable. As someone born and raised in Paris, it is true that in a few neighborhoods, you can't walk down the street wearing a kippa or you'll be targeted by thugs. Yes thugs. Not normal people, not random muslims (muslims and Jews have been living in peace for decades in neighbourhoods like Sarcelles until last summer where a bunch of rioters started attacking jewish shops during the israeli attack on Gaza). It's the same thugs who attack everyone and are a poison to our society but who are they targeting the most ? Jews. And yes most of these thugs are 2nd or 3rd generation of muslim/african immigrants.

I'm French and i feel offended that people think that French people are antisemites. Ffs ...France was the first country where Jews got full citizenship back during Napoleon's reign. I'm not denying what's happened during the second world war but Now it's like Jews are some marginalised community living in terror, which is not the case at all.
Yes Jews are tired of being the target of radical islamists, who always say they are avenging the palestinians (palestinians didn't ask them to kill innocent people in their names). Yes jews are scared for their children and i understand that a lot of them are thinking about moving to Israel. Yes the palestinian-israli conflit is being used to brain-wash some of the muslim youth " Look at how Jews and Americans are killing innocent palestinian muslim children and nobody gives a fuck. Look at how every country is bowing to Israel and saying Israel is the victim etc.... etc... ". And innocent people who have nothing to do with the situation there are paying the most heavy price for it. As one of the dad's victim said, it was safer to live as a Jew in a muslim country like Tunisia (he is a rabbi in Tunisia) than it is to live in France.
This new anti-semitism, as horrible as it is, as scary as it is, originates from the fact that palestinians stil live in an open prison. And it's been going on for decades. I know it's a truth that most jews don't accept to admit. Unfortunately it's the sad reality. I'm not saying that if there wasn't a conflit, then Jews would be loved by everyone, There would still be antisemites, like back in the days. But those are so marginalised that they would have no impact at all. And i'm not saying that jews are responsible of what's happening in Palestine right now, they are not. And i'm not trying to justify the action of lunatics who go and kill innocent jews or of anti-semites who use that as a pretext to spread their hate of jews. But Today's antisemitism, the one that is resulting in innocent jews getting killed, is the result of that conflict, radical islam and young thugs getting radicalised and asked to kill jews to avenge palestinians.. There are still a few far-right wingers ideologues but they have a tiny audience and no real impact on our society. I'm afraid that as long as there is no peace in Israel and Palestine, as long as we keep turning our back to the harsh reality that the conflict has repercussions all over the fucking world, and it's way way more than a simple land dispute and that every nation should be working hard to resolve it and not just showing solidarity for every side, then tensions between communities will keep rising.

Thanks for your considered response.

Not being French, I'm refering to the response of the world's media (and the general social media reaction), which for whatever reasons has been extremely vocal when it comes to recognising the issue of cartoonists being killed for mocking a prophet but rather muted when it comes to Jews killed for being Jews.

It's good to know that the Prime Minister and others have made positive statements, and certainly the safety of Jews does appear to finally have started to be taken seriously, judging by the sad sight of armed soldiers guarding Jewish schools.

I want you to be sure that I don't for a minute think that the French are antisemites - I certainly never said so and didn't mean to imply otherwise. I merely think that it is obvious that more needed to be done and needs to be done now for French Jews to feel safe in their own country. I don't know what that muppet who asked me earlier if I work for the Israeli government was thinking - I don't want Jews moving to Israel out of fear, I want them to feel safe in their homes and for them to have the support of their fellow citizens.

While I understand that the conflict in the middle east is instrumental in feeding radicals who seek to brainwash impressionable Muslim youths, I think dwelling on it can be a distraction from the real issue of stopping said radicalisation. Western Christians could be equally angry about the way their brothers and sisters are oppressed in other countries - they are arguably the most oppressed group in the modern world, despite the huge disparity between the oppressed and the free - yet they are not committing atrocious acts like these. I would also argue that as radical Islamists are not simply against the treatment of Palestinians by Israel but against the de facto existence of a Jewish state, that even if Israel agreed to all Palestinian demands tomorrow, it wouldn't have much of an effect on those who are so beyond hope that they are willing to murder unrelated civilians in a supermarket thousands of miles away (but that argument is even more off topic than this one, so maybe we should talk about that elsewhere).

 

[methane47]

I think you're misunderstanding what nilbog was trying to say. They purposefully didn't kill numerous people to make a point, those that they killed were not civilians to them. They car jacked a number of people without harming them, robbed a garage without casualties, bumped into a guy turning up for an interview at the factory and told him to leave (even shook his hand and told him they didn't kill civillians) and released the one guy who they found in the factory after one of them had some bandages applied and coffee made by him. They did all of that to try and make a point that the West Kill civilians in their campaigns. They made all of this clear in an interview on French television.

They were obviously deluded assholes, but that was their logic.

At a certain point you just have to disregard what they claim were their intentions and judge them for their actions.

Their logic was garbage since they actually did kill civilians and their targets were categorically civilian.
noun
1.a person who is not on active duty with a military, naval, police, or fire fighting organization.

 

[Henkka]

France, fuck yeah! It's pretty amazing how spectacularly the terrorists' attempt to kill Charlie Hebdo backfired. You could argue their true goal was to incite anti-muslim sentiment and thus radicalize more people to join their cause. But even that probably failed when they shot the muslim police officer and another muslim was lauded as a hero for protecting hostages at the jewish market. Just utter fail, all around.

 

[| Praxis |]

At a certain point you just have to disregard what they claim were their intentions and judge them for their actions.

Their logic was garbage since they actually did kill civilians and their targets were categorically civilian.

I was just trying to get across that this wasn't a Mumbai style attack, aimed at causing the most casualties possible. This was planned as a statement (a psychopathic statement of course and garbage logic as you say), but those are the facts. Obviously the brothers did kill civilians (the cartoonists) , but they deemed them enemies, but if you're unfortunate enough to run into terrorists then you'd probably want to bump into these idiots over other attackers in the past.

 

[BaronLundi]

And I guess to Islamists Jews are never just civilians either.

Not just talking about those slaughtered in the kosher shop either. At least one of the two Jews at Charlie Hebdo was specifically targeted because they were Jewish (the only woman killed in the attack, who had previously received numerous anti-semitic death threats).

While the solidarity with Charlie Hebdo has been wonderful to see, it would be nice to see some more recognition that not only were cartoonists killed simply for exercising free speech but that Jews were killed simply for being Jews, after a year in which anti-semitic attacks soared and the number of Jews leaving France for Israel doubled (making France the number 1 origin of immigrants to the country).

Cheesecakebobby, I have to ask, and I'm not joking when I say this, do you work for the Israeli government?

Denouncing antisemitism somehow equates working for/supporting the Israeli government?

Nice.

This new anti-semitism, as horrible as it is, as scary as it is, originates from the fact that palestinians stil live in an open prison. And it's been going on for decades. I know it's a truth that most jews don't accept to admit.

While I appreciate your careful wording, I seriously think you are mistaken. Antisemitism in the muslim/arab world long predates the creation of Israel, let alone the recent escalations in the Israelo-Palestinian conflict.
It's fuel for antisemitism for sure but certainly not the cause. The truth many people in France are not ready to accept is that peace is not the main point of order for many in the arab/muslim world, the end of Israel is.

 

[chancellor]

WTF

 

[Kinyou]

WTF

lol, at that price, packaging should be free.

Spoiler

has to be a joke bid.

 

[Tragicomedy]

You shouldn't be required, but if that other person is not bothering you, you should put differences aside and try to work together. In this case terrorists deserved to be mocked, but the other people who are following the religion are also in the path of the bullet. There were other ways to make fun of terrorists than to include the normal people.

I'm very late to the game on this thread, but that particular choice of wording is so incredibly ironic and hypocritical it hurts. It's almost like your religious beliefs might be blinding you from making logical associations...

Cartoons != bullets.
Fucking terrorists firing bullets at innocent people = bullets.

Do not try and misconstrue the two.

 

[Raist]

France, fuck yeah! It's pretty amazing how spectacularly the terrorists' attempt to kill Charlie Hebdo backfired. You could argue their true goal was to incite anti-muslim sentiment and thus radicalize more people to join their cause. But even that probably failed when they shot the muslim police officer and another muslim was lauded as a hero for protecting hostages at the jewish market. Just utter fail, all around.

The irony is that they might have even saved the journal. They were in a bit of trouble financially, so between the donations and insane sales volumes that might get them out of trouble for a bit.

 

[Alx]

The irony is that they might have even saved the journal. They were in a bit of trouble financially, so between the donations and insane sales volumes that might get them out of trouble for a bit.

Yeah, and I suppose even if it weren't enough, nobody would let it die now out of principle. At least for a few years.
The only sad thing is about the content, I wonder how the magazine will keep its identity in the future, especially without its iconic cartoonists.

 

[RustyNails]

Charlie Hebdo founder: Slain editor 'dragged' team to their deaths

One of the founding members of Charlie Hebdo has accused its slain editor, Stéphane Charbonnier, or Charb, of “dragging the team” to their deaths by releasing increasingly provocative cartoons, as five million copies of the “survivors’ edition” went on sale.

Henri Roussel, 80, who contributed to the first issue of the satirical weekly in 1970, wrote to the murdered editor, saying: “I really hold it against you.”

In this week’s Left-leaning magazine Nouvel Obs, Mr Roussel, who publishes under the pen name Delfeil de Ton, wrote: “I know it’s not done”, but proceeds to criticise the former “boss” of the magazine.

Calling Charb an “amazing lad”, he said he was also a stubborn “block head”.

“What made him feel the need to drag the team into overdoing it,” he said, referring to Charb’s decision to post a Mohammed character on the magazine’s front page in 2011. Soon afterwards, the magazine’s offices were burned down by unknown arsonists.

Delfeil adds: “He shouldn’t have done it, but Charb did it again a year later, in September 2012.”

The accusation sparked a furious reaction from Richard Malka, Charlie Hebdo’s lawyer for the past 22 years, who sent an angry message to Mathieu Pigasse, one of the owners of Nouvel Obs and Le Monde.

“Charb has not yet even been buried and Obs finds nothing better to do that to publish a polemical and venomous piece on him.

“The other day, the editor of Nouvel Obs, Matthieu Croissandeau, couldn’t shed enough tears to say he would continue the fight. I didn’t know he meant it this way. I refuse to allow myself to be invaded by bad thoughts, but my disappointment is immense.”

Matthieu Croissandeau, Nouvel Obs’ editor, said: "We received this text and after a debate I decided to publish it in an edition on freedom of expression, it would have seemed to me worrisome to have censored his voice, even if it is discordant. Particularly as this is the voice of one of the pioneers of the gang."

This is not the first time Delfeil has disagreed with the modern Charlie, accusing Charb’s predecessor of turning it into a Zionist and Islamophobic organ.

That was after Philippe Val, the previous editor, fired one of its historic figures, Maurice Sine, for publishing a cartoon on the marriage of Nicolas Sarkozy’s son, Jean, to a Jewish retailing heiress, which he considered anti-Semitic.

Delfeil said he would not say anymore on recent events. “I have refused to speak to the TV and radio, to everyone. I kept my message for Obs, and I am not prepared to open this subject again,” he said.

 

[speculawyer]

I can't believe someone can be offend by something because a book tell him to be.

The book doesn't even tell them to be offended. Hearsay of hearsay of hearsay passed down through many decades told them to be offended. It is a farse.


I'm offended by Bible and Koran and the horrible things they say. I'm offended that these people go around and telling me and my child that we going to burn in hell after we die. I'm offended the way homosexuals, women, and religious minorities are treated in the Islamic world. But I don't get to kill anyone over that or stop them from speaking.

What gives them the right to stop me from offending them? Its bullshit. There is no right not to be offended. People need to grow the fuck up and put on their big boys pants and stop throwing hissy fits over talk.