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Spoiler thread for Arrival | We have Contact again

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Just saw the movie. Knew absolutely nothing going into it other than alien ship and a linguist. Enjoyed it quite a bit. Was kind of a cross between Contact and Sphere.

Nice twist with the non-linear time thing. Once Louise told her daughter to go ask her dad for science stuff I figured it out.
 
Matt said:
There is a really strange idea going on in this thread that seems to be a life ended at 15 wasn't a life worth having.

Nowhere does the film say that the Dad was mad because the daughter would suffer. Instead is says that he left because the pain was too much for him.
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I thought she said he left because Louise told him something he wasn't ready to hear. I'm thinking she told him that she knew all of this was going to happen.
 
Escape Goat said:
I thought she said he left because Louise told him something he wasn't ready to hear. I'm thinking she told him that she knew all of this was going to happen.
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She told hawkeye that their daughter was going to die. He got mad and couldn't look at the kid the same anymore and left. He knew she could see the future.
 
Abbott dies. Louise names her daughter Hannah.

Hannah Abbott. Might be coincidence. Might be really obscure Harry Potter reference...
 
Thought the movie was alright. I liked the idea of language and communication being a focal point of the story, but I thought the execution left a lot to be desired. My biggest problems were with the pacing, the characters, and the writing. I thought the movie relied too much on melodrama and sentimentality to truly convey the humanity it so desperately reminded you about. I didn't think it was handled delicately as it could have been. I also didn't care for the alien designs.

Hard 7/10.
 
Escape Goat said:
I thought she said he left because Louise told him something he wasn't ready to hear. I'm thinking she told him that she knew all of this was going to happen.
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She told him that she knew their child would die, so he was full of both anger at Amy Adams, and sadness because it was like his daughter was already dead. That's why he couldn't look at Hannah the same anymore either.
 
Spoiler from Villeneuve's other film Enemy, which you should also watch.

What is it with Villeneuve and giant spider-like creatures? I just got out of the movie, but I assume everyone else was reminded of the ending of Enemy when the heptapod suddenly appeared in the room with her in her dream?

It also occurred to me that the focus on non-linearity of time in Arrival is quite appropriate when watching Enemy. Interesting.
 
Anyone else think of Arrival when reading this thread?

BigAT said:
Spoiler from Villeneuve's other film Enemy, which you should also watch.

What is it with Villeneuve and giant spider-like creatures? I just got out of the movie, but I assume everyone else was reminded of the ending of Enemy when the heptapod suddenly appeared in the room with her in her dream?

It also occurred to me that the focus on non-linearity of time in Arrival is quite appropriate when watching Enemy. Interesting.
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Watched Enemy after Arrival. Had the same thoughts the other way-round, though if we were in the Heptapod language that wouldn't really matter (I think?)
 
Truant said:
Loved the film. The best representation of non-linear time ever put on film.
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I didn't think so, didn't she seem to be remembering the future before she even learned the language?

I feel like Dr Manhattan is a better representation of this, or even some indie movies.

I thought the film was ok. To many depth of field shots with people just standing with a blurry background for no reason. The language aspect was interesting though, I hate movies about time travel or time prediction there all usually depressingly fatalistic.
 
Truant said:
Loved the film. The best representation of non-linear time ever put on film.
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totally agree, it was brilliantly done and the story about language and humanity working together was really good (the visuals and the score also top notch)

amazing - best film this year
 
During the scene when she explains why the father isn't there anymore, that he had told her she was making a mistake, I thought it meant he left because she wouldn't get an abortion. But the line about him looking at the daughter differently suggests she told him recently. Either way, the choice to have a child despite knowing she would die as a teenager was certainly the climax of the film and pretty powerful stuff.

The aliens were really well done and I liked how the interactions with them all took place in the same location. The more I think about it, the more it reminds of the great sci fi classics from back in the day.
 
The short story, which I read shortly after watching the film, explains why there is no paradox. It explains that humans view things as cause and effect, but the aliens view things by their purpose. The scientific example given in the story is how humans view light being bent as it hits water and redirected to its final destination. However, scientifically speaking, the light somehow knows it's final destination, because the path it takes through air and water can be mathematically determined to be the fastest route from the starting point to the end point. To humans this is difficult to comprehend because we think linearly. To the aliens, who see the future, this makes perfect sense, because to them, the purpose of the light is to get from point a to point b, so logically it should take the fastest route.

The way the story presents the way you would act having known the future is that you are compelled to carry it out. You perform based on what you know should happen. If you believe in free will, this is difficult to swallow. However, these are just the rules the author has set out. They are obviously not proven, but they make the story work.

Interestingly, the film has added a lot of themes. The tension between nations is not in the story, nor is the 1 of 8 concept which requires the nations to cooperate - the aliens stay in orbit and are communicated with via over much more numerous communications devices provided by the aliens. Even more importantly, no reason is given for the visit - the aliens leave without a major exchange of knowledge besides communication. The story concentrates pretty specifically on theorizing what it would be like to see the world like the aliens.

The daughter also dies at 25 from an accident and no reason is given for the divorce. This was actually a clever wrinkle added to the movie.

I think the one thing not really addressed by the movie or story is what will happen as more people learn the language. The story gives a fairly believable reason for why the husband doesn't learn it, but not why many others would not. One would think the world would end up with a whole lot of people who could see the future, which could be a big problem.

Oh, and "do you want to make a baby" is right from the story.
 
OK can someone explain to me why, nonchalantly the military puts a huge bomb in the alien ship and does not even bother warning, the two most important and knowledgeable persons on the mission??

Also her going through the pages of her book, was interesting, was that a flash forward?
 
Johnny Cage In The Shower said:
OK can someone explain to me why, nonchalantly the military puts a huge bomb in the alien ship and does not even bother warning, the two most important and knowledgeable persons on the mission??

Also her going through the pages of her book, was interesting, was that a flash forward?
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It wasn't the military. It was some soldiers who listened to a bit too much Alex Jones and were acting on their own.

Yes.
 
Movie was ok, but had way too many time paradoxes. The going to the future but not 'remembering' what she said or even talking to the chinese general.

She got his phone number and what she said to him in the future, which couldn't have happened because he wouldn't have been there if she hadn't done that in the past.


Other thing, the movie starts out with the child and showing that life. So the movie starts in what is then the 'present' and maybe the majority of the movie takes place in a 'flash back'.
 
So is there any scientific reasoning that would explain how learning a new language could allow you to become clairvoyant? Because I'm struggling with that.
 
Tagg9 said:
So is there any scientific reasoning that would explain how learning a new language could allow you to become clairvoyant? Because I'm struggling with that.
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They explain this in the movie, the theory that immersing yourself in a language can change your perception, or how you think.

And experiencing the world through that alien language could change your perception of it.
 
Just came back from the movie. A friend took me and it was going to be his 3rd time watching it. He was surprised how quickly I caught the twist/revelation. He knew exactly when I did since I was whispering to myself "HOLY SHIT!!!" and "oh my god!" and "Soooo sickkk!" :P My apologies if you were the middle aged lady sitting next to me.

We were joking after the movie that the last 4-5 minutes of the movie was just for the people who didn't caught on to the twist just yet since it was all "flashbacks"
 
Iorv3th said:
Movie was ok, but had way too many time paradoxes. The going to the future but not 'remembering' what she said or even talking to the chinese general.

She got his phone number and what she said to him in the future, which couldn't have happened because he wouldn't have been there if she hadn't done that in the past.


Other thing, the movie starts out with the child and showing that life. So the movie starts in what is then the 'present' and maybe the majority of the movie takes place in a 'flash back'.
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It's not a paradox. Learning the language allows you to view time in total instead of in a linear fashion. As she gets better at the language she starts to be able to see more of the timeline, including meeting the general. When you can view the timeline you simply act it out, so her meeting with the General had already happened/would happen.

The General had probably also read her book, which likely explained what she experienced, which is why he thought he needed to show her the number.

I am not a big fan of time travel and the complications that it normally brings, but according to the rules of the story it kind of works here.
 
I had originally posted this in the RT thread mistakenly:

Saw it this morning. Liked it but didn't love it, though I'm willing to admit that I might appreciate it more after a second viewing. I think there's an additional thematic layer that I'm not getting.

I thought the twist was pretty novel and her decision involving her daughter was pleasantly bittersweet. But was that the entire message of the movie?

The movie basically had two climaxes, and I don't understand how they're thematically connected. 1) her acceptance of the cycle of life and that she wants to have a child even though it will die tragically young and 2) the world becoming united after she gets the Chinese general to stand down.
 
Saw this last night and loved it. Once they started discussing time in the language I immediately thought of the Tralfamadorians from Slaughterhouse Five and thought it was a pretty cool concept.

I'm glad I ended up enjoying it, because early on when the Colonel gives her the recording of the aliens and says "here, translate this completely unknown two second sound byte, because it's totally the same as when you were a Farsi translator," I was just in awe how ridiculous of a scene it was.
 
Can someone jog my memory and explain what the bit was when she wasn't offered the job initially and asked what the guy from the other college will say.
 
Dany said:
Can someone jog my memory and explain what the bit was when she wasn't offered the job initially and asked what the guy from the other college will say.
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I think it was just a reference to some event in the past, outside the movie, where the other guy messed something up. Basically a dig at his credentials.
 
Ourobolus said:
Saw this last night and loved it. Once they started discussing time in the language I immediately thought of the Tralfamadorians from Slaughterhouse Five and thought it was a pretty cool concept.

I'm glad I ended up enjoying it, because early on when the Colonel gives her the recording of the aliens and says "here, translate this completely unknown two second sound byte, because it's totally the same as when you were a Farsi translator," I was just in awe how ridiculous of a scene it was.
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That was him getting a feel for how she works and goes about translating. I doubt he actually thought she could sit there and translate a new language with a few seconds of audio.
 
Tom_Cody said:
I had originally posted this in the RT thread mistakenly:

Saw it this morning. Liked it but didn't love it, though I'm willing to admit that I might appreciate it more after a second viewing. I think there's an additional thematic layer that I'm not getting.

I thought the twist was pretty novel and her decision involving her daughter was pleasantly bittersweet. But was that the entire message of the movie?

The movie basically had two climaxes, and I don't understand how they're thematically connected. 1) her acceptance of the cycle of life and that she wants to have a child even though it will die tragically young and 2) the world becoming united after she gets the Chinese general to stand down.
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I watched it a second time and there is definitely something going on with the imagery of Hannah as a young girl.
 
Just got back from seeing it. Film of the year so far for me.

Also on a side note it was actually kinda nice to not see London as the location for the UK.
 
Just saw this, loved it, I think people who talk about timeline or paradoxes are reading the non linearity idea wrong.

Time is seen as non-linear, but it isn't fixed, the loop can change, it's why the aliens arrive, if it was deterministic there would be no reason for them to came to earth, you can't change the present by going to the past because the reason you are in the past is what happened in the present, basically the paradox from the Time Machine, but that isn't the case here, there is no time travel at all, is about perception. Aliens are more advanced, so they can either perceive or at least make predictions about bigger loops, that's where the 3000 years thing comes from. Louise can only perceive her own life, probably only the part about Ian and Hannah as a loop, she can't perceive beyond that, but she definitely can change the loop, that's why Ian said she made the "wrong choice", there is choice in the non linear perception of time.
 
Saw the movie last night. So, let me get this straight. Amy Adams' character learns a new alien language and because of that she can now perceive time in a non-linear fashion?

Jyx6lgZ.gif


I loved how the non-linear time was used to save the day at the end, even if how it comes to be is a massively tough pill to swallow. But I pretty much loved everything else about the movie. I really liked how they broke down how fucking hard it would be to communicate with an alien race should they ever arrive.
 
mantidor said:
Just saw this, loved it, I think people who talk about timeline or paradoxes are reading the non linearity idea wrong.

Time is seen as non-linear, but it isn't fixed, the loop can change, it's why the aliens arrive, if it was deterministic there would be no reason for them to came to earth, you can't change the present by going to the past because the reason you are in the past is what happened in the present, basically the paradox from the Time Machine, but that isn't the case here, there is no time travel at all, is about perception. Aliens are more advanced, so they can either perceive or at least make predictions about bigger loops, that's where the 3000 years thing comes from. Louise can only perceive her own life, probably only the part about Ian and Hannah as a loop, she can't perceive beyond that, but she definitely can change the loop, that's why Ian said she made the "wrong choice", there is choice in the non linear perception of time.
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If thats true then the whole thing falls apart because, she's told that information from the Chinese General. He could subvert the whole thing, its an extreme paradox if he doesnt tell her. Thats not even predicting that's divining information you could never possibly have.
 
Calabi said:
If thats true then the whole thing falls apart because, she's told that information from the Chinese General. He could subvert the whole thing, its an extreme paradox if he doesnt tell her. Thats not even predicting that's divining information you could never possibly have.
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I remember the Chinese general said that he is giving her that information because she asked him to, he doesn't understand, but does it anyway, because it is what saved them in the past (from his linear perspective of time). She triggered the events in the future by asking this from the general, but, it's not like she *first* got the info in the future and *then* she did the phone call, because there is no linearity, no "first", "second" , etc, everything is sort of there, somehow, at the same "time" for lack of a better word. What a non linear time proposes is not paradoxes but that cause and effect have to be reevaluated as concepts, it's by far the most out-there theory I've read, I'll give it that.
 
I'm still of the mind it's a "what happened, happened" (or maybe what will happen, will happen, lol) frame of mind, meaning it's not so much as pre-determined, but that it is just what happens.

Louise has a better grasp of the language and thinks in it so perceives the future, which I deem to be just like memories, only of a different time (so they can be vague, and just feelings, and can be spotty). The general probably has more limited ability in it.
 
The scene where she goes up in the pod, and has the "face to face" meeting, we see one of the aliens. I cannot recall is the alien just a massive octopus type thing with no obvious eyes/mouth? Or did I not catch the "full" reveal of their true form?
 
I get that, but perceiving everything as a game or reading a sentence from left to right is a lot different than literally altering space time.
 
self_aware_keyboard said:
It is mentioned before that the way we think, is determined by the language we speak. Also if all you learn is games, then everything is a game, there are plenty subtle hints.
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The ability to transmit information back in time and remember the future is not based on the way we think. The movie proposes that it is, but this does not hold up to any scrutiny. The closets analogue is not linguistic change, but cultural change, whereby societies that do not have accurate measures of time tend to divide up time differently and consider "appointments" more loosely ("Island Time", it's called). But that's still worlds away from this.
 
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