Spr0ng strikes again!!: Xbox 360: Downloadable Demos From Day One

Even if pulled out of someone's ass, this feature would be so damn cool. Access to demos of the entire launch library?

Make it happen, Microsoft.
 
I don't see this as being too far-fetched. Microsoft is almost there with downloadable mini-games (Xbox Live Arcade) and downloadable content so why not take it a step further with Xbox 2?
 
I havent liked a single Xbox demo ive played (and that includes demos for a lot of games i love)....developers just dont make good demos. Maybe this free extra publicity for their games will make them try a bit harder with them(doubt it though).

If it is true I hope MS has some way of letting you do other things while you download these things because they are sure to be a few hundred meg.
 
Hellraizah said:
If that was true, no store would probably bother selling pre-played.
Click to expand...

why not? They pay 25 for a new game then sell it for 50. Or they can pay 15 for a used/newish game and re-sell it for 45. Or they can pay 4 for a used old game and sell it for 18. Or they can pay 25 for a new game, sell it for 50, buy it back for 15, sell it for 45, buy it back again for 10, sell it for 30, buy it back for 4, sell it for 25...
 
I'm slowly warming to the idea of pay to play. With the right pricing model, I could end up spending the same amount, but that money could go to the good, especially replayable games.

Down with shovelware!!
 
DarienA said:
When and where?
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Phil Harrison @ GDC before PS2 was released. He basically said devs won't have to advertise their games on banners and magazine adds, instead demos of their games will be available for easy download.

edit:
http://www.gamespot.com/news/1999/03/24/news_2452064.htm yup it was at GDC, they took the video offline thoughl

Harrison Keynote On RealVideo
GameSpot TV releases last week's Phil Harrison keynote and technology demo in RealVideo format.

Gamers looking for more information on the PlayStation 2 can read the keynote given by Sony's Phil Harrison at last week's Game Developers Conference. Harrison talked about what the company will do with its new wonder machine.

GameSpot TV was on hand at the keynote to film Harrison as he spoke to designers about the next generation PlayStation machine. GameSpot TV has the entire 28-minute keynote available (with tech demos) online in RealVideo format.

So why read what others have to say? See the presentation in its entirety for yourself.
 
I take it you will have to purchase something to store these demos on?
 
Doom_Bringer said:
Phil Harrison @ GDC before PS2 was released. He basically said devs won't have to advertise their games on banners and magazine adds, instead demos of their games will be available for easy download.

edit:
http://www.gamespot.com/news/1999/03/24/news_2452064.htm yup it was at GDC, they took the video offline thoughl
Click to expand...

That link doesn't take me anywhere... that bastard Harrison... let's get him!
 
They talked about what possibilities and oppoturnities the HD would open up... I don't recall anything being promised.
 
TTP said:
but w/o an HDD? How? Does this mean an HDD may be in there eventually?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't see how this is even remotely possible unless you have a HD in there.

Or some very large flash based ROM.

Is this an early April Fools?
 
Uhh, not really sure why Spong jumps from game demos to full downloads. Even with a 200GB Hdd I wouldn't want to be downloading games to my HDD. I want to have a physical copy to keep.
 
Suikoguy said:
I take it you will have to purchase something to store these demos on?
Click to expand...
SPOnG said:
Interestingly, SPOnG has had it confirmed by several senior sources that the Xbox 360 will feature wireless connectivity out of the box. Furthermore, data storage via PC will be featured, though information seen to date makes reference to this being used solely for media storage. However, downloadable Xbox content could, in theory, be stored too, though we should make it clear that the possibility of such [gaming] content being stored in this way is mere speculation at this point.
Click to expand...
Dunno about HDD. Strange thing is no one does, it's a secret well kept.
The above is 100%, with regard PC link via wireless though as to whether it will take DLC was not explained in the leaked stuff. As Alard said,
“I think we need to have a global foundation, and then personalise within region.”
Click to expand...
I think the HDD will be an option.
 
Currently around half of the price paid for any game goes straight into the retailer's pocket.
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Yeah right. C'mon Spong.....videogames have a 100% retail mark up? :lol Margins on games are notoriously slim. If retailer cost was only $25 then a high volume store like Best Buy would be charging $35-40 for them and capturing nearly the entire market.
 
border said:
Yeah right. C'mon Spong.....videogames have a 100% retail mark up? :lol Margins on games are notoriously slim. If retailer cost was only $25 then a high volume store like Best Buy would be charging $35-40 for them and capturing nearly the entire market.
Click to expand...
Oh god...
Border old boy, are you basing this on any kind of knowledge or research, knowledge and research that would directly contradict well-established fact? Retail sees about 50% of the game's coverprice. If you're going to be snively and glib, at least do basic research into the subject rather than just taking how you imagine things to work as fact. Anyone with any understanding of Western games retail will confirm these aproximations.
 
looking at the demos now released for xbox1, i dont think this will happen. only every 6th game get a proper demo. the next thing is, how big will these demos be? i dont think anyone downloads a demo as big as 1 gig (next gen will have larger storage mediums, so i assume, there will be also bigger demos) through the standart cable/dsl.
 
Where is this fact "well-established"?

The only way to explain a 100% profit margin on games would be massive, industry-wide price fixing and collusion. Nobody in a free-market economy is going to sit on a margin that huge when they could easily undercut competitors and take a huge chunk of the market.
 
Folder said:
Oh god...
Border old boy, are you basing this on any kind of knowledge or research, knowledge and research that would directly contradict well-established fact? Retail sees about 50% of the game's coverprice. If you're going to be snively and glib, at least do basic research into the subject rather than just taking how you imagine things to work as fact. Anyone with any understanding of Western games retail will confirm these aproximations.
Click to expand...

20 - 30% margin for Scandinavian retailers. Back in the day when I was working with Club Nintendo I'd get the prices for retailers, an example I remembe: original Street Fighter II for Super NES retail price was 699 FIM (116 eur) and price retailers paid 529 FIM (88 eur). That's around 25% margin. Now that retail price of games have come down to an amazingly low 60 - 70 eur, I expect retail margins have taken some pressure, too.
 
Hellraizah said:
Well, I'm a video game store manager and I can confirm that this is wrong. What's next, stores making 100% profit on hardware ?

Normal mark up on games is about 10%
Click to expand...
Oh god...
 
This would be a cool feature if done right; I could've really used something like this on a system like PS2, where there are so many games that stuff can easily slip under your radar if it doesn't look interesting enough.

Of course, as has been pointed out, many companies don't seem to care or even know how to make proper demos.
 
Well, used most used games do have a 100%+ markup. I know it's used games and you're talking about new, but its still insane! How many times have we all been to EB and they offer maybe $3 for our game, then put it on the shelf for maybe $18 or higher? That's a 600% markup, and I know it happens a lot too.
 
Musashi Wins! said:
10% mark up on new games??? I do not believe that news.
Click to expand...
But he's a store manager. So he must be right... Let's just settle this for a moment. How many games does your average specialist chain store sell in a day? Not very many. Is a 10% margin enough to keep the whole thing afloat? No, only someone who's mother is also their sister could think that. Retail works like this: High value, slow sales = High mark-up. Low value, rapid sales = lower mark-up.
And the rub is that as well as their staggering mark-ups, retailers also, (in 95% of cases) get full sale or return too.

Back on topic:

human5892 said:
This would be a cool feature if done right; I could've really used something like this on a system like PS2, where there are so many games that stuff can easily slip under your radar if it doesn't look interesting enough.
Of course, as has been pointed out, many companies don't seem to care or even know how to make proper demos.
Click to expand...
Agreed. From what I can gether, MS will offer some kind of royalty break for the demo work. Also, I think it's likely that once the system is centralised/globalised, there will be a standard, including minimum specification etc...
Whci hleads me on to - I never even thought about the regionalisation of the process. Interesting.
 
Hellraizah said:
Well, I'm a video game store manager and I can confirm that this is wrong. What's next, stores making 100% profit on hardware ?

Normal mark up on games is about 10%
Click to expand...

I put together a full business plan for a game retail store when I was in college a few years ago. As part of the reseach I met with both store managers and distributors to determine the markup levels. What I found was that wholesellers move inventory at about 60-70% of MSRP. Retailers sell at a 10-15% margin. I'm by no means an industry expert, but my findings are way more in line with the above than with Spong's claims.
 
Hellraizah said:
Says the man who thinks there is 100% profit on new games....
Click to expand...
Out of interest, which store do you manage? Do you do the payroll. If so, can I have a job please?
Only kidding son! :)
 
I believe (know) that the numbers for consoles are very slim. But that software mark up doesn't jive at all. I flat out don't believe the 10% number. Maybe if you were a tiny store and had a crap distribution arrangement. I guarantee GameStop does better than 10% on their new releases.
 
If it really was 50-100% markup, you'd figure Wal-Mart and Bestbuy would be significantly undercutting smaller videogame stores for years now.
 
Perhaps I should have made it more clear. The big players, alonf with the deals for shelf-space POS merch and the like see breaks of 50%, simply on a pile-em-high basis and increasingly these days with cross-over campaigns with publishers. The point of the piece was that levels like this could be avoided, hopefully reducing the chance of a price spike at next-gen launch. Given the percentage of titles shifted at launch and through the majot chains, the point is, IMO totally valid.
LakeEarth said:
If it really was 50-100% markup, you'd figure Wal-Mart and Bestbuy would be significantly undercutting smaller videogame stores for years now.
Click to expand...
They do all the time in the UK.
Tescos has broken the embargo and slashed the RRP of every major release for about a year.

Anyway:

Xbox 360:

Downloadable games from Day 1
Content storage on PC
Wi-Fi enabled out of the box
 
Folder said:
Anyway:

Xbox 360:

Downloadable games from Day 1
Content storage on PC
Wi-Fi enabled out of the box
Click to expand...

Hey, stop trying to get the discussion back on topic!

Seriously though - all three of these things rock. Hope they're true.
 
Ghost said:
i wonder how they would handle PC content storage, it seems like a risky business hacker wise.
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No riskier than releasing what is eseentially a bespoke PC in a box as a games console. As I said, the only content confirmed for storage on PC is media stuff. Though if a version of 360 did come W/O HDD, it would make sense...
Where's Blimblim in this thread?
 
This Wi-fi out of the box speculation is really cool, if it's indeed true. With the PSP and DS having it already, it seems very probable that the next home consoles are next.
 
10% margin seems a bit slim......though 100% margin is equally absurd. Truth is probably somewhere in the middle (and variable depending on the volume that the store deals in).

Wifi out of the box would be nice....but does it mean that the ethernet port would be completely nixed?
 
Folder said:
Where's Blimblim in this thread?
Click to expand...
He's here, but this is the type of stuff I don't know much about. The content storage on PC I've heard about, but nothing more.
Very likely stuff I'd say.
 
Folder said:
Perhaps I should have made it more clear. The big players, alonf with the deals for shelf-space POS merch and the like see breaks of 50%, simply on a pile-em-high basis and increasingly these days with cross-over campaigns with publishers. The point of the piece was that levels like this could be avoided, hopefully reducing the chance of a price spike at next-gen launch. Given the percentage of titles shifted at launch and through the majot chains, the point is, IMO totally valid.
Click to expand...

Retailers DO NOT get 50% margin EVER. Wal-Mart normally pays ~$37-$38 for a $50 game (or closer to $40 for a game like Halo 2 or GTA:SA). There is certainly co-op available through stores, but it doesn't amount to ANYWHERE NEAR 50% margin for a retailer. There can be deals made here and there, but it's far, far more the exception than the norm. Big games will make the money anyway and small games can' afford to give away that kind of margin. I know Europe has higher prices, but I can't imagine it affords the retailer anywhere near that kind of margin.

Don't know where you got that info, but it's beyond bogus.
 
border said:
10% margin seems a bit slim......though 100% margin is equally absurd. Truth is probably somewhere in the middle (and variable depending on the volume that the store deals in).

Wifi out of the box would be nice....but does it mean that the ethernet port would be completely nixed?
Click to expand...

A 50% gross margin is when a retailer doubles thier cost (eg. $25 cost = $50 retail). Most general merchandise (clothing, shoes, gifts) get at least this much margin.

Large Retailers in the US normally get around a 25% margin (+/- 5% based on co-op or if a publisher thinks they can get more (eg. GTA))
 
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