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[firehawk12]

Well that's true with a lot of media now. As for Comixology, I think I can access to my comics when I'm disconnected from the internet, so technically if they go bust I'll still have access to all my comics. At least on tablets, not on PC as they are just web pages.

I think people, ideally, want CBRs. Much like what Humble gives you with their stuff and what various indie artists have done with their attempts to self publish (including Brian K Vaughn!).

 

[Quasar]

I think people, ideally, want CBRs. Much like what Humble gives you with their stuff and what various indie artists have done with their attempts to self publish (including Brian K Vaughn!).

Some certainly do. And I know Image offers stuff in CBR format on their website, or did.

 

[Midonin]

Maybe the anime does it better?

I have no frame of reference but the anime. That applies to most things that are anime, not just this. Though at least some of that has to do with my mindset and philosophy going into shows. There's only a few times I've genuinely disliked a show.

 

[dimb]

You don't see any similarities between Free and K-On and Yuru Yuri and GochuUsa and Yuyushiki and Kiniro Mosaic and even Sakura Trick? All of these shows represent pure homosocial peer groups without the transgression of the other sex. They supposed to be "exclusive looks" into worlds that the opposite sex are not able to access themselves, since by inserting themselves into a group they are necessarily disturbing the system. Let's call that Heisenberg's Moe Uncertainty Principal.

I said there were similarities between all the shows, but that's such a base level take on them when it pretty much only correlates to the character makeup of the show being a group of same gendered friends. There is the transgression of sexuality from another gender in Free!, and that's the viewer. Saying that Yuyushiki is the same as Free! creates a false equivalency in the presentation of the show and how it sexualizes the characters. The point of Yuyushiki is never to titillate, but that is basically the intent of every scene in Free!.

I mean, if you want to read the into light pseudo homosexuality between the various characters in the all girl shows, certainly it exists in Free as well. There's no irony between the fact that Rin and Haruka have an extremely close "rivarly" that the seme and uke fujioshi have undoubtedly entertained themselves with, but that's incumbent on you to "ruin" the mostly innocent atmosphere of the text.

See, I don't feel like Free! has very much even in the way of "light psudeo-homosexuality". There is no sexual tension that exists between the characters. The fact that they just happen to be in swuimsuits around one another doesn't really equate to much, and most of the fanservice winds up being directed towards the viewer with where the camera focuses. The show only caters to the sexual needs of the audience as it glorifies rocky awkward sculptures of the male figure. If you haven't watched the new episode of the second season I would implore you to, because the homoerotic undertones are pretty much nonexistent.

I can't speak for all male-only peer groups, but speaking from my own experience and what I've seen in IRC, in the most extreme guys will watch porn together. Just sit in awkward silence and get erections as some hardcore banging is on the computer monitor (thank god I only visited college dorms and never lived in one lol). That's a reality that the girls watching Free probably don't want to experience.

...IRC is not reality.

This isn't necessarily about sexual desire on the part of the audience though. Yes, there are guys who want the Keions to fuck each other. But there's someone like me who is somehow fine with being a voyeur into the lives of these five girls without a) wanting to have sex with them and b) wanting them to have sex with each other. The fact that I know what men are like in private groups makes any idealization of that relationship almost preposterous. But I can watching a show like K-On with nostalgic idealization, remembering not only an ideal high school life, but being able to experience that life through a perspective that is completely foreign to me.

I have to imagine that there are women who watch Free in the same way, where it's not about the fact that the boys strip their jerseys in front of the school, but the jokey way that Makoto has to get Haruka to get ready for school every day. It's a way for them to access the male psyche, to invade an idealized male space, and find comfort in a homosocial bubble that is literally too good to be true.

I don't really know what to say. Free! and K-on could not be more disparate in their intentions. Free! is not about infiltrating a boy space, and it isn't even a show that pursues an idealized portrayal of the masculine for female viewers to easily integrate with. It's a show about dudes flexing with water running over their bodies. If the characters are not naked, the show will concoct meaningless reasons for them to strip. Its intent is completely different than that of K-on, and the relationship that Free! has with its viewers is one that only exists to serve up scantily clad bodies.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

I still haven't watched Bebop. Is it any good?

I didn't realize we still had communist spies in Murica.

No but seriously it is incredibly good. Like easily my #1 anime, if I didn't make it obvious already. Timeless classic, still looks good to this day, amazing soundtrack, what is easily the coolest cat protagonist ever, and a great cast of character. It's also episodic with an overarching plot in the background of each episode.

Also it has Ein. And Ein is what made Corgis my favorite dog.

And of course what tends to be called the #1 opening for any anime (Baccano aside)

I give you. Tank

 

[cajunator]

Ed is the best girl. Jupiter Jazz is the best episode.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

And the Space Fridge episode is among the best 'bottle episodes' ever.

 

[firehawk12]

It's interesting to see positive impressions of this when the actual game has the weakest set of characters and least compelling writing I've seen in an Atelier game. Maybe the anime does it better?

I quite liked the anime as well, but I haven't played any of the games.

 

[cajunator]

And the Space Fridge episode is among the best 'bottle episodes' ever.

Toys in the attic

 

[jgminto]

I never really liked the Space Fridge episode that much. The horror inspirations are cool but the tension building didn't work at all for me and just came off as boring. Best episodes are Mushroom Samba, Ballad of Fallen Angels, Waltz for Venus, Jupiter Jazz 1 and 2, Speak Like a Child, Hard Luck Woman and Real Folk Blues 1 and 2.

 

[phoenix296]

Its pretty decent. Very rewatchable. It can be watched in almost any order.

I didn't realize we still had communist spies in Murica.

No but seriously it is incredibly good. Like easily my #1 anime, if I didn't make it obvious already. Timeless classic, still looks good to this day, amazing soundtrack, what is easily the coolest cat protagonist ever, and a great cast of character. It's also episodic with an overarching plot in the background of each episode.

Also it has Ein. And Ein is what made Corgis my favorite dog.

And of course what tends to be called the #1 opening for any anime (Baccano aside)

I give you. Tank

First, I'm not murican. I'm your frigid neighbour up in the north.

On the point this sounds good, I'll have to check it out. Any other older/classic anime I should know about? I've seen Trigun and Evangelion and plan to watch Akira sometime in the near future.

 

[Joe Molotov]

Toys in the attic

That one and Mushroom Samba go well together.

 

[sonicmj1]

Yeah, I think there's probably a reason why women would react ambivalently, if not negatively, toward shows like K-On and it is probably because it's idealized to the point where they find it difficult to identify with the portrayal.

K-On does pretty well with the female demographic, if this source is anything to go by. It's second from the top, with blue and red representing men and women respectively.

 

[firehawk12]

I said there were similarities between all the shows, but that's such a base level take on them when it pretty much only correlates to the character makeup of the show being a group of same gendered friends. There is the transgression of sexuality from another gender in Free!, and that's the viewer. Saying that Yuyushiki is the same as Free! creates a false equivalency in the presentation of the show and how it sexualizes the characters. The point of Yuyushiki is never to titillate, but that is basically the intent of every scene in Free!.

I think I just disagree with the premise. You have Gou fetishize the male body, but even her reactions aren't actually sexual in nature - she gets just as excited at the prospect of seeing her brother strip as she is with any of the other guys.

It's the equivalent of putting the Keions in maid outfits, which happens even in the superior second season (not to mention the various beach episodes). Even Aria - a show that I definitely like for more than just having girls being moe - features your typical female bonding scene where the girls are in an onsen. I don't think all onsen scenes are necessarily sexual either, as much as the "white tv" scenes featuring men in steam rooms aren't meant to be about seeing guys screw each other, but just representations of spaces where homosocial bonds are preserved and are typically not violated by the other gender.

See, I don't feel like Free! has very much even in the way of "light psudeo-homosexuality". There is no sexual tension that exists between the characters. The fact that they just happen to be in swuimsuits around one another doesn't really equate to much, and most of the fanservice winds up being directed towards the viewer with where the camera focuses. The show only caters to the sexual needs of the audience as it glorifies rocky awkward sculptures of the male figure. If you haven't watched the new episode of the second season I would implore you to, because the homoerotic undertones are pretty much nonexistent.

Well, like I said, there's sexual tension between characters that i sub-sub-sub-subtext. It requires the viewer to actively pursue the reality of that relationship... in the same way that Ritsu and Mio being "special friends" is something that requires the reader to place whatever baggage they want onto that relationship.
(In the same way that the Love Live characters are "shipped", even jokingly by the show and its related properties, but they really aren't off SDBurtoning each other).

...IRC is not reality.

Certainly you've talked about women (or men) you've wanted to have sex with amongst your peer groups? Or at least people you were attracted to? I'm old and way out side the demographic, but I'd like to think the 90s weren't the only time teens were randy and expressing sexual desire with each other.

I don't really know what to say. Free! and K-on could not be more disparate in their intentions. Free! is not about infiltrating a boy space, and it isn't even a show that pursues an idealized portrayal of the masculine for female viewers to easily integrate with. It's a show about dudes flexing with water running over their bodies. If the characters are not naked, the show will concoct meaningless reasons for them to strip. Its intent is completely different than that of K-on, and the relationship that Free! has with its viewers is one that only exists to serve up scantily clad bodies.

I just think it's more than that. Even if it's crappy drama like dudes dealing with dead fathers and taking it out on their friends from season 1, there is an aim to the show that goes beyond simply wanting to show off the male body. Even the sportier sports shows which essentially build in a yaoi pairing in their main characters want you do care more about the sport than what happens when the guys shower with each other after the game.

Heck, the first episode of the new season basically has the rest of the school roll their eyes at their whole re-introduction routine. Yes, that whole thing served as exposition for the benefit of old and new readers of the text, but you can't ignore the fact that the show itself has built in a response to their proclivity to strip either.

K-On does pretty well with the female demographic, if this source is anything to go by. It's second from the top, with blue and red representing men and women respectively.

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh419/dtshyk/hira056781.jpg

Oh yeah, with K-On specifically zeroshiki talked about how the audience was fairly mixed during his first screening of the film. But then it became all otaku in his second screening. lol
The concerts seem to be all attended by men as well... which leads me to assume that the more ardent fans are the typical ones we expect.

But I would be surprised if there was a similar breakdown for other properties. Love Live being the new hotness, for example, probably has a predominantly male fanbase?

 

[duckroll]

Soul Eater Not - Episode 12 (End)

Uh huh. I can relate...

This was a bad show with bad production values. Even the final episode felt so lazy. There's really not much I can say about it in a positive way at all. If we start with a score of 0, and deduct a point for every bad episode and add a point for every good episode, I think the final score for this show would be -10.

 

[Rhapsody]

Soul Eater Not - Episode 12 (End)



This was a bad show with bad production values. Even the final episode felt so lazy. There's really not much I can say about it in a positive way at all. If we start with a score of 0, and deduct a point for every bad episode and add a point for every good episode, I think the final score for this show would be -10.

I stopped at episode 1. After realizing all my enjoyment came from just cameos, I thought I shouldn't bother staying up to date weekly.

 

[astrogamer]

Gochuumon wa Usagi Desu ka 10
Easily distracted Cocoa. Cocoa-missing Chino. Full of adorable cuteness and friendship

 

[sonicmj1]

Oh yeah, with K-On specifically zeroshiki talked about how the audience was fairly mixed during his first screening of the film. But then it became all otaku in his second screening. lol
The concerts seem to be all attended by men as well... which leads me to assume that the more ardent fans are the typical ones we expect.

So what? You were saying that girls actively disliked K-On because it didn't present relatable female relationships. That shouldn't have anything to do with how hardcore they are as fans.

But I would be surprised if there was a similar breakdown for other properties. Love Live being the new hotness, for example, probably has a predominantly male fanbase?

Love Live might not be that different from existing idol properties like AKB, which have plenty of female fans despite the diehard okatu base being largely male.

 

[Midonin]

Captain Earth 07-09

The only magical girl who would possibly attempt a nuclear holocaust is maybe Poemy. Magically Assured Destruction aside, episode 9 was fun. Any time Akari gets the spotlight is welcome, and having one of the DCs be an idol was fun. Even if a show is not specifically an idol show, plenty of shows have characters who are idols. One of the things I like about anime. After much thought, I've realized that what I'm attracted to in anime - besides cute girls and character songs - is really concepts. My story analysis skills are mild at best and the art of animation is the same, but the repeating of concepts and how every anime interprets them, that I can do. Or maybe that is analysis. It comes in many forms.

The name "Midsummer's Knights" is just the kind of pun I'd expect from an anime, though I'm not entirely sure what the spacesuits are for. So far Hana is serving mostly as spider sense via Squirrel Girl, and Akari is in a purely support role. But if either of them get a chance to pilot a mecha in the future, I'm all for that. We need more girls in robots. The Ordinary stage of the Earth Engine fighting on the ground level is also kinda cool.

 

[Jintor]

I stopped at episode 1. After realizing all my enjoyment came from just cameos, I thought I shouldn't bother staying up to date weekly.

not even good cameos. smh

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

not even good cameos. smh

Soul looks like he is dead inside in that series.

 

[Jex]

Yamato is an amazing series but you raise a valid point that is often overlooked. The series has several notably embarrassing fan service shots that just weren't needed.....just like the heels and the girls wearing skin tight suits.

Well, I wouldn't say it's that overlooked, most people who have commented on the show has pointed out how the fanservice stuff is pretty dumb, when it appears.

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

Soul looks like he is dead inside in that series.

Is it safe to say that show was just an attempted cash in on Soul Eater's popularity? (I have no idea if SE was popular or not).

 

[Dead]

The only bad thing about Cowboy Bebop is when it makes you realize Keiko Nobumoto has only written one other show since.

Macros Plus/Cowboy Bebop/Wolf's Rain/Tokyo Godfathers. GOAT anime writer streak of all time.

 

[Jex]

Kanna Tears OVA

http://youtu.be/cOBYK7PuSEI

I guess that confirms its set between the 'end' and the epilogue.

No tears no sale.

 

[Jintor]

Is it safe to say that show was just an attempted cash in on Soul Eater's popularity? (I have no idea if SE was popular or not).

please have been a funding misappropriate exercise to steal money for soul eater resonance

 

[cajunator]

I only wish to see Kanna happy. Drunk with cat ears and a maid outfit is also acceptable.

 

[Branduil]

So earlier I said that I could think of a number of shows that I think are legitimately better than Cowboy Bebop (or are at least on part with it) and as that sounds like a rather inflammatory statement I thought I should at least be gracious enough to furnish y'all with a list. I'm going to cheat and include OVA's but not movies.

- Gintama: I mean, this is almost cheating as it has hundreds of episodes, but god damn if it isn't an amazing property.

- LOGH: Technically an OVA, but whatever. Not without it's flaws, but still a legitimate epic in the classic sense. It explores ideas, concepts, and themes not found before or since in the medium.

- Gunslinger Girl: Probably my most surprising inclusion on this list, but this show is a legitimately amazing series from start to finish. It never misses a beat.

- Ping Pong: Recency bias be dammed, I'm gonna drop this here. I don't care!

- Mushi-Shi: Perfection.

- TTGL: I enjoy the second half of this show so I'm a weird outlier, I suppose.

- Doremi: A gigantic franchise is hard to rate, but the quality and consistency of the writing is off the scale. In terms of how overlooked a show is vs it's quality, this has to have the highest correlation of any title I can think of.

- Eureka Seven: I've only just come to appreciate how spectacular this title is (despite prior familiarity) so there's a slightly amount of recency bias here.

- Space Battleship Yamato 2199 - AOTY.

- Anne of Green Gables - One of the greatest shows of all time directed by one of the greatest directors in anime (Takahata) with the help of the most well known anime director (Miyazaki) and based off of truly fantastic source material. Anne is simply one of the most well realised and most endearing characters in the entire medium. The quality of children's TV anime in the 70's was god damn ridiculous. Watch this show now. Don't make me watchbet you sons of guns.

So yeah, it is a pretty small list, but there are definetenly a number of contenders for the 'throne'.

I really liked SBY 2199, but putting it above Cowboy Bebop is a bit much, I think.

If I had to make a list of anime of Cowboy Bebop-tier TV anime I've seen(not better than, but in the same tier), it would be:

• Haibane Renmei - One of the best explorations of death and spirituality in the TV medium
  
• Bunny Drop - A heartwarming show about parenting, with great art direction and naturalistic animation
  
• Hyouka - You knew this would be on the list
  
• The Vision of Escaflowne - The best shoujo romance mecha fantasy anime ever
  
• Monster - The ultimate anime suspense thriller

You know, I have a lot more films and OVAs I view as top-tier than TV shows. I guess it's really hard to make masterpieces while working within the constraints of a weekly animated series.

 

[Misuta]

Rin is so good.

Just add a dance pole to the scene and...*blushes right away*.

I think my imagination has gone wild. ಠ_ಠ

 

[fertygo]

The only bad thing about Cowboy Bebop is when it makes you realize Keiko Nobumoto has only written one other show since.

Macros Plus/Cowboy Bebop/Wolf's Rain/Tokyo Godfathers. GOAT anime writer streak of all time.

Macross Plus doesn't belong as writing achievement, jebus.

 

[firehawk12]

So what? You were saying that girls actively disliked K-On because it didn't present relatable female relationships. That shouldn't have anything to do with how hardcore they are as fans.

Love Live might not be that different from existing idol properties like AKB, which have plenty of female fans despite the diehard okatu base being largely male.

Well, I didn't say "actively disliked" when I specifically chose the word "ambivalent" to purposefully avoid being that specific. And, of course, I can only speculate - but the reaction that men seem to have with Free is probably one that women could have with any of the dozens of all girl shows that are out there. I mean, there are even jokes in anime itself where female characters talk about how all-girl schools aren't all about finding "Onee-samas" to worship and so forth.

And I'm talking about Love Live as an anime property specifically, since it is essentially an all-girls homosocial bonding anime tied to marketing a bigger franchise.

----

So I'm going through random Star Trek: TNG episodes and I totally forgot that they did the whole "third gender" thing as well. And much like Mass Effect and Knights of Sidonia, even though this alien species has no gender, because Commander Riker is the character involved with falling in love with this alien species, the alien has to exhibit female characteristics and be played by a female actress.

Perhaps somewhat forgivable since Star Trek was never progressive when it came to issues of sexuality, but it is so very much a cop out. lol

 

[Quasar]

No tears no sale.

I'm probably more interested in Ichka and Kaito being lovey-dovey, but the trailer gives the impression its all about getting her back so all I'll get is that in the final moments.

 

[Superflat]

So earlier I said that I could think of a number of shows that I think are legitimately better than Cowboy Bebop (or are at least on part with it) and as that sounds like a rather inflammatory statement I thought I should at least be gracious enough to furnish y'all with a list. I'm going to cheat and include OVA's but not movies.

When I rewatch Cowboy Bebop, there are definitely episodes that I felt weren't great, and even some I'd skip. But somehow it's really hard to even bring up the show and compare it with others.

For me personally it's because the world building and characters almost transcends the actual anime, if that makes any sense. They created a world that feels like it exists regardless of the actual narrative through its art, characters, and music. The combination is lightning in a bottle and just appeals to me in such a way that nearly no show could touch it. But when you put the actual anime itself and its episodic content laid bare, I can absolutely understand when someone provides shows that are stronger than it.

I could too, if I could hold myself to a solid list. But yeah, Cowboy Bebop is one of those strange anime with almost intangible qualities that make some of the best I've ever seen in the medium, so it's hard for me to definitively say "this anime is better", or even put it up for comparison. Neon Genesis Evangelion is like that for me too. They sort of just exist in the atmosphere and never get any play when I do the ranking game.

 

[Branduil]

Cowboy Bebop definitely has some of the strongest world-building of any TV series. Every episode in the series, regardless of its own merits, contributes something unique and memorable to the Jazz-inspired vision of a vagabond humanity scattered across the solar system after wrecking its own birthplace.

 

[firehawk12]

Cowboy Bebop definitely has some of the strongest world-building of any TV series. Every episode in the series, regardless of its own merits, contributes something unique and memorable to the Jazz-inspired vision of a vagabond humanity scattered across the solar system after wrecking its own birthplace.

I can't refute this statement since I come from a position of ignorance, but I want to say Aria does it better anyway. lol

 

[Branduil]

I can't refute this statement since I come from a position of ignorance, but I want to say Aria does it better anyway. lol

So what do we have to kickstart to get you to watch Cowboy Bebop now?

I guess you might as well wait for the bluray boxset at this point.

 

[phoenix296]

I can't refute this statement since I come from a position of ignorance, but I want to say Aria does it better anyway. lol

Good, I'm not the only one who hasn't watched Bebop.

 

[chickdigger802]

initial d final stage

this really is the perfect finale batlte for the series.


and random cameo of the new 86 lol. isn't this show suppose to be set in the 80s?

 

[cajunator]

I can't refute this statement since I come from a position of ignorance, but I want to say Aria does it better anyway. lol

It does do it better. Neo venezia is wonderous.

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

please have been a funding misappropriate exercise to steal money for soul eater resonance

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

 

[Jintor]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

i'm saying i want soul eater brotherhood

which is called resonance, because, well... resonance

 

[firehawk12]

So what do we have to kickstart to get you to watch Cowboy Bebop now?

I guess you might as well wait for the bluray boxset at this point.

In the same way that Penguindrum kind of soured me on Utena for a while (unfairly, I admit), I feel like Dandy hasn't really done any favours with regard to making me motivated to return to Bebop. Of course, I apparently stopped watching after this best episode of the series or whatever, so that probably doesn't help. lol

Good, I'm not the only one who hasn't watched Bebop.

There are quite a few of us it seems!

It does do it better. Neo venezia is wonderous.

It's cheating because it's very much taking the traditions of Venice and reinterpreting them, but hey... it's still the greatest science fiction world ever.

 

[SliceSabre]

I only wish to see Kanna happy. Drunk with cat ears and a maid outfit is also acceptable.

Agreed.

 

[Branduil]

In the same way that Penguindrum kind of soured me on Utena for a while (unfairly, I admit), I feel like Dandy hasn't really done any favours with regard to making me motivated to return to Bebop. Of course, I apparently stopped watching after this best episode of the series or whatever, so that probably doesn't help. lol

Only the very silliest Cowboy Bebop episodes are similar in tone to Space Dandy.

 

[firehawk12]

Only the very silliest Cowboy Bebop episodes are similar in tone to Space Dandy.

I know I'm being completely unfair, but it's simply an excuse to use to put it in the backlog... especially since the first three of four episodes didn't really do much for me.

 

[MikeHattsu]

There are quite a few of us it seems!

You can add me to that list as well

 

[ZachDeKoromaru]

There are quite a few of us it seems!

I caught an episode every now and again on adult swim way before I was into anime so it's like, at the very bottom of the backlog pile.

 

[BGBW]

I was told the other day I haven't seen anime because I've never seen evangelion or ghost in the shell.

 

[Jintor]

you're not nearly sugoi enough to hang with us, nerd

 

[Tomat]

- Eureka Seven: I've only just come to appreciate how spectacular this title is (despite prior familiarity) so there's a slightly amount of recency bias here.

Is there anything else out there like E7? I'm trying to keep myself from watch Ao and rewatching E7 again. I need something new to watch and I've had E7 on my mind lately.

Unrelated to E7 but I tried watching Ergo Proxy recently and it's pretty boring (eight episodes in). Anyone else here watch it and have any thoughts on it?