K2D
Banned
I don't get the strategy for Forspoken.. New AA(A?) franchise that absolutely tanks? Where did it fail? Consumer research? Marketing? Management? All of the above?
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Square Enix's stock falls by 30%
- Thread starter Kurotri
- Start date
I don't get the strategy for Forspoken.. New AA(A?) franchise that absolutely tanks? Where did it fail? Consumer research? Marketing? Management? All of the above?
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
It actually makes perfect sense on paper.
1) Build on FFXV tech with a new studio.
2) Fix the gameplay issues people had, namely automated combat and limited use of warp for traversal.
3) Fix story and dialogue issues by hiring well respected western writing team.
4) New IP. Debut at PS5 console unveiling with impressive trailer.
{insert code here}
Member
Pulled up the charts on tradingview and it's pretty ugly. Basically all higher term time frames breaking down on expanding vol.
They need some hits and they need them very quickly otherwise they are in for some very rough years unfortunately.
Also, doesn't help that the nikkei has possibly topped out.
They need some hits and they need them very quickly otherwise they are in for some very rough years unfortunately.
Also, doesn't help that the nikkei has possibly topped out.
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Icymanipulator
Member
Oh but so many people here were saying how well 16 did.
I guess turning your main rpg series into an action game wasn’t such a smart move afterall. Call me when you make RPGs again.
I guess turning your main rpg series into an action game wasn’t such a smart move afterall. Call me when you make RPGs again.
semiconscious
Member
y'know what, squeenix? an obscenely padded 40 hr version of devil may cry as a final fantasy game was never a good idea...
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Marketing. People turned it into a joke before it released.
Most people, even if they decided to play it, they would not give it a fair chance. Their view of the game will be tainted by "lol bad writing" memes....
Bigger question is Immortals of Aveum. That game is not memed on. Reviews are fine and the game is Doom 2016 with metroidvania elements. All new Ip, cool magic and so on.
But it's played by 60 people on steam. That's sackboy territory lol
Klosshufvud
Member
Isn't Immortals just terribly coded/optimized? Doubt most people on Steam have the PC configuration to run that game at acceptable standard.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
I really think Square Enix should just make AA games instead of trying to compete in the AAA space.
Killjoy-NL
Member
FFXIV A Real Reborn?
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
It's UE5 full lumen and nanite game. Maybe the first one like that.
Normally, if other studio released "pc killer", pc community would be excited and happy. Plenty of people with great hardware would jump on it to torture their pc. Like Control.
And this is what they were hoping to see... but it didn't happen and I have no idea why.
It runs even on steam deck. it scales fine
SlimeGooGoo
Banned
how about listening to your fans next time? No one ever wanted a forspoken or Final Fantasy may cry.
K2D
Banned
If Final Fantasy games sold millions on Xbox as you say, as apposed to tens of thousands or even a couple of hundred thousands on Xbox, Square Enix would have never gone to Sony for an exclusivity deal.
Well, I'd call that shoddy management and maybe even market analysis..!
Only issues of those four points I have is with #4.. Don't spend two hundred millions on a new IP, with gameplay that isn't a bullseye, and with outsourced writing and acting that doesn't resonate with your audience.
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Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
The director of FFXV and head of Luminous Studios left shortly after it was formed, so something was going wrong somehow.
I feel a little bad for SQEX sometimes because they just seem like aliens that genuinely have no clue what resonates. They study Game of Thrones like they're from an alien planet. "This is what they want right now." They hired Amy Hennig and other respected writers on Forspoken and probably genuinely trusted them to know more than they would on the topic of what is appealing.
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Fabieter
Member
I disagree with number 3. Japanese devs should never westernize their games ever. Its not the reason they are popular.
I have a bad feeling with yakuza 8 as well going western. Its never a good idea.
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
It clearly failed. I just mean you can see a clearly logical attempt to make a quality game here. It's not like they were irrationally trying to create a failure.
Klosshufvud
Member
Well people would be excited if it had the visual muscle power to brag about. IMO it just didn't look that impressive in marketing. And it runs on Steam Deck, the same way Skyrim "ran" on PS3. It's borderline unplayable at lowest possible settings/resolution when in combat. At that point, might as well just watch a Youtube Let's Play.
One game I feel may be the next visual benchmark is that new Avatar game that will come out soon. They've done really well showing off its visual capabilities.
TommyCronin6969
Member
That's what you get for relying on Final Fantasy so much and to a bigger extent FF7 Remake and its already many spin offs in the last 2 years.
Fabieter
Member
No they didnt but it was pretty clear that the writing and the gameplay were leagues apart. With a more japanese style story and better tech day one (since it wasn't finished)it would have reviewed alot higher than it did.
Its really sad because its Systems and gameplay is really really solid.
Roman Empire
Member
Time to buy Square stock is all I hear
FalsettoVibe
Member
The amount of people in this thread ignorantly blaming FF16 for this is not surprising at all. If you would take the time and look just a tad bit deeper, you would see that
this underperformance is due to the mobile division tanking and FF14 being in-between expansions. The amount of people salivating at any chance to view FF16 in a negative light
is embarrassing.
Also, at this point I'm sure Takashi Mochizuki is just doing this crap for clicks.
this underperformance is due to the mobile division tanking and FF14 being in-between expansions. The amount of people salivating at any chance to view FF16 in a negative light
is embarrassing.
Also, at this point I'm sure Takashi Mochizuki is just doing this crap for clicks.
Shake Your Rump
Gold Member
I don't see how anyone could play the FF16 demo and not immediately want to buy the game.
The game isn't actually worth buying, but the demo does a hell of a job convincing you otherwise.
Kurotri
Member
Out of curiosity..who is this Mochizuki character?
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
I don't want to get into this past a simple comment, but I'm a huge FF fan and the demo convinced me to not get it. It plays exactly like it does for much of the rest of the game, even with a 2nd fight with more summon abilities from later in the game.
But I think I'm kind of an outlier for some reason. A lot of people have claimed they love the demo and not the rest of the game. I don't get it.
Shake Your Rump
Gold Member
It's because the demo presents the best parts of the game: graphics, music, set pieces, writing, voice acting... there is almost no game play in the demo. I don't think anyone expected the lack of gameplay to actually represent the full game's lack of gameplay.
RoboFu
One of the green rats
No it’s not solely FF-16’s fault but this is stock price we are talking about so when the president of square-enix comes out and says “FF-16 didn’t meet expectations” and it is one of their #1 flagship series .. then investors take notice.
I mean the president of square enix and stock analysts both said as much fiat out.
“Square Enix’s ‘Final Fantasy XVI’ Sales Lead To Stock Price, Profit Decline”
“As of Square Enix’s latest earnings report, while net sales increased, operating profit dropped 79% from ¥14.4 billion to ¥3.0 billion. Now, during a post-earnings call to analysts, as reported by Bloomberg, Final Fantasy XVI is likely to blame for much of this, citing “slow adoption” of the PS5, “
Square Enix’s ‘Final Fantasy XVI’ Sales Lead To Stock Price, Profit Decline
During a post-earnings call to analysts, as reported by Bloomberg, Square Enix says that expectations for Final Fantasy XVI sales have not been met, citing "slow adopt...
www.forbes.com
iQuasarLV
Member
You know I was ready to give SE the benefit of the doubt a while back. What with FF16 and their modern approach, but I had my HD 2.5D games like Octopath Traveler and announced DQ3 remake in HD 2.5D. I figured the old crowd would continue to have some traditional awesome sauce to fall back on. The last two years clearly wagged its finger at me for being optimistic of SE.
Shame on me and I will go back to being a pessimist until good shit is on the shelves ready for purchase.
Shame on me and I will go back to being a pessimist until good shit is on the shelves ready for purchase.
Deerock71
Member
You made this comment with 0 mention of DRAGON QUEST?!
Hypereides
Member
Rofif, at some point you'll realise that the majority of people aren't as open minded like some others. Its a shame really. Its no wonder most AAA output is pretty, but so bland. Its what the majority wants. The market reflects their demand.
People rather bandwagon onto a meme or selectively pick flaws/poor shots then make a mountain out of a molehill than giving something a honest chance.
POST EDIT: For the record, I just checked out Immortals of Aveum and it honestly looks kinda rad. If I had a current gen console, I'd give it a shot.
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iQuasarLV
Member
My school has a popcorn machine in the teacher lounge for Friday's. I will surely fire it up if that news hits.
YeulEmeralda
Linux User
"well respected western writing team"
Kadve
Member
And we don't even have to salt them. Just subject them to one of the threads here.
FalsettoVibe
Member
No it’s not solely FF-16’s fault but this is stock price we are talking about so when the president of square-enix comes out and says “FF-16 didn’t meet expectations” and it is one of their #1 flagship series .. then investors take notice.
I mean the president of square enix and stock analysts both said as much fiat out.
“Square Enix’s ‘Final Fantasy XVI’ Sales Lead To Stock Price, Profit Decline”
“As of Square Enix’s latest earnings report, while net sales increased, operating profit dropped 79% from ¥14.4 billion to ¥3.0 billion. Now, during a post-earnings call to analysts, as reported by Bloomberg, Final Fantasy XVI is likely to blame for much of this, citing “slow adoption” of the PS5, “
Square Enix’s ‘Final Fantasy XVI’ Sales Lead To Stock Price, Profit Decline
During a post-earnings call to analysts, as reported by Bloomberg, Square Enix says that expectations for Final Fantasy XVI sales have not been met, citing "slow adopt...
You're still not taking to time to properly understand what is being said here, and WHO is saying it. Every single time there is some negative news related to SE and FF16, it all seems to come back to Takashi Mochizuki (Bloomberg), who has been debunked time after time. He and Bloomberg are the source of that Forbes article. You know its some BS when you see something like, "Final Fantasy XVI is likely to blame". That's someone is using their own opinion and not facts.
Also, point me exactly to where the president of SE said that and it does not source back to Takashi Mochizuki....
TheInfamousKira
Reseterror Resettler
I enjoyed the demo quite a bit, but while playing, I did notice that the exploration and complexity of combat were two things that were...understated, to put it kindly.
This is keeping in mind with what the full release entails for me (so far, still at Moore in my first playthrough). Combat was basic, slow, and laden with tutorial pop ups. Expected in the beginning of a retail title, but kind of jarring and overwhelming in proportion to the amount the Demo actually lets you play with these systems that they introduced. Also as a random aside, the world map/fast travel and the "loot around the map is a glowing blue ball that magically flies into your pocket," gave me a bit too much of the "I'm playing a level in a videogame and getting powerups," which is cool, but not really the kind of thing you want to constantly notice in an immersive story.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
Designer t shirts are for suckers
Hudo
Member
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
For me I just noticed that the enemy HP was very high, their hit reactions felt a bit off, and pretty much all abilities I had were just damage on a cooldown timer so I felt I wasn't really doing anything but mashing attack and then hitting a dodge or counter for the same effect. I got some red flags on the cinematics because the flashiest scene seemed like a literal copy of the opening of Two Towers with the Balrog (which looks almost exactly like Ifrit), and then little bits of Game of Thrones dialogue ripped out verbatim (which everyone gave me shit for pointing out and tried to convince me I was wrong). I just decided to wait and see. Wasn't sure if the exploration opened up but I saw enough to put me off of it. Oh well.
Gambit2483
Member
keep dreaming. SE would sooner sell to Nintendo than the Western guys who sell 10 consoles a week in their country
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BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
Yeah this is definitely Phils fault. Makes sense.
Salty Popsicle
Banned
They are opening to Xbox because clearly the exclusivity to one console platform is not doing them any favors.
TheInfamousKira
Reseterror Resettler
Yeah, I definitely noticed the similarities (Silmarillion?) to some high fantasy from other places. I was able to get over that, because some artists really DO wear their inspiration on their sleeve. I'm gonna finish the game before I have a good opinion of whether they're just lifting wholesale or not.
I'll also agree that in the start (and maybe later, idk) it does feel like you're restricted to simply attacking, dodging, closing in, or using two abilities, each with substantial enough cool down that initially you're encouraged to not even use them until the enemy is staggered. Something does feel a degree or two off, like it's a balancing issue or something. I feel like there's all the systems in place for a really intuitive seamless battle system but the recipe doesn't have enough of x or y.
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
A few tweaks could really improve it. Like a DLC expansion with more weapons, elemental affinity, etc. More spells with things like protect, shell, haste, debuffs instead of just little fireballs. It's not far off. Oh well, just my opinion.
TheInfamousKira
Reseterror Resettler
They've got two paid DLCs coming, they'd frankly be out of touch if these didn't also address some gameplay tweaking.
![L*][*N*K](/data/avatars/m/842/842515.jpg?1696510303){kind=avatar}
Virex
Banned
I was referring to Final Fantasy and NOT DQ. Because I also highly doubt DQ12 is going to be turn-based. And if I didn't mention DQ, who the fuck cares?
Hudo
Member
It is hard for me to articulate how few shits I give which corporation buys another. I am just here for the
RoboFu
One of the green rats
Well yeah he is just rebranding the news from mid Aug. doesn’t make it not true though. It’s just not new.
I do believe though that the next DQ and FFR2 will be super huge hits and correct the stock somewhat.