sensor
Member
Pretty much. This forum is honestly becoming unreadable because of this axe grinding narrative bullshit that goes on in every thread, be it Starfield or FFXVI or whatever else.
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Square Enix's stock falls by 30%
- Thread starter Kurotri
- Start date
Pretty much. This forum is honestly becoming unreadable because of this axe grinding narrative bullshit that goes on in every thread, be it Starfield or FFXVI or whatever else.
Deerock71
Member
Millions upon millions of DQ fans?
SkylineRKR
Member
There is absolutely something off. When you get a new power, the game explicitly states that you get a new element with it. For what purpose is this?
I just don't like everything does the same damage. You are like playing a MMO using your moves in rotation on cooldown. But this time only when enemies are staggered. If they aren't staggered you are doing the same basic combos and you don't want to waste some specials yet since the real damage is done in stagger. You can only equip 2 moves per power. And some are launchers on short cooldown, which work well against thrash mob, others are moves obviously designed for boss damage on long cooldowns. Then the equipment system, they buff one specific move in damage, or in cooldown. I would think cooldown is always the better choice since you can cast it sooner thus doing far more damage.
And context moves too, it seems only Garuda has one? You can do it once the stagger reaches 50%. So why wouldn't I use Garuda?
There is just so much missed opportunity here. Next to elements, they could enhance the traversal with the powers you get (melting ice, destroying walls with Titan, grabbing platforms with Garuda etc). There is just nothing in here. You play the first few hours, you've seen the game.
twilo99
Gold Member
The game we don't speak of has the exact same problem on a much larger scale.
Pejo
Member
If I were petty I could go back into those FFXVI threads where everyone shat on me for saying that FFXVI isn't gonna have legs and did extraordinarily poorly after its first week, but I am not that petty.
I still think it was a huge mistake to basically make it an anti-JRPG. A Final Fantasy for people who hate Final Fantasy, as it were.
I still think it was a huge mistake to basically make it an anti-JRPG. A Final Fantasy for people who hate Final Fantasy, as it were.
Mercador
Member
That's the first time since the first one that I don't play a Final Fantasy at release.
iQuasarLV
Member
Sure man.
WSJ Stock Information Square Enix
Tell me where in the last three quarters Square Enix has done jack and shit to course correct their losses? That is nine months of losses. with a 68% earnings loss over five quarters, 15 months!
And here on this very forum we have white knights touting that FF16 was going to be the firework finale to bring the rainbow and put all the naysayers in their places with its profound profits. Now I see people moving the goalpost yet again by saying that we just have to wait for FFR-2 or FF16 DLC to bring the rainbow. puh-leez.
What this is, is yet another game that launched, and failed to meet promised performance goals, and SE trying to gaslight their investors to stay the course yet a little longer. Because its not at all insanity to keep repeating the same mistakes expecting to turn a profit, right?
The last 15 months have shown SE is just becoming another BioWare or Blizzard and are not capable of putting out profit consistently. 2020 to 2022 was a fluke they rode the winds on, and now that they have to put out product that actually sells to promised expectations; you know what they cannot do it.
But sure label all the people pointing to yet another failed title in a long string of titles from a company, and brand us mob mentality axe sharpening fools. The fools are those of you still spending money on a failing brand instead of a product with merit.
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Faust
Perpetually Tired
No. Its due to games like Forspoken and Avengers that didn't sell well or were received almost universally negatively. FFXVI met expectations. The bigger issue is that Square has shown no real effort to correct these mistakes in the months and months prior, instead doubling down on the failing Mobile Market, overpriced merchandise (remember the 12,000 USD Terra statue? The 1700 USD Turntable? The 700 USD Chess Set?), and the CEO's NFT fetish.
SenkiDala
Member
I mean JRPGs doesn't sell on Xbox (look at gems like Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey, nobody gave a fuck), and the sales on PC are limited. So yeah Square missed 23 sales on Xbox and 372 on PC, oh no.
Those games only sell on PS and Nintendo consoles.
Puscifer
Member
720p was sending me so yeah, you're right I waited for PC lol
Zephyranthes
Member
Correlation does not always equal causation. The title of this article seems to want to lay the blame for Square's losses upon FF16, even though it's the highest selling PS5 exclusive to date, was well received critically, and Square has already stated that its failure to hit internal targets was driven by the PS5 install base being smaller than expected.
I think the real problem here is more to due with just an overall lack of enthusiasm towards Square's output as a publisher in recent years. Forspoken, Avengers, and Babylon's Fall were all massive (and expensive) failures, and the ongoing success of FF14 and positive reception to FF16 can only do so much to make up for that. 2024 seems like it will probably be a good year with FF7 Rebirth and FF14 Dawntrail, but what does Square have in the works besides those games that's worth being excited about, besides maybe Kingdom Hearts 4? Contrast that with a company like Capcom, who has several IPs that are doing very well both financially and critically.
I think the real problem here is more to due with just an overall lack of enthusiasm towards Square's output as a publisher in recent years. Forspoken, Avengers, and Babylon's Fall were all massive (and expensive) failures, and the ongoing success of FF14 and positive reception to FF16 can only do so much to make up for that. 2024 seems like it will probably be a good year with FF7 Rebirth and FF14 Dawntrail, but what does Square have in the works besides those games that's worth being excited about, besides maybe Kingdom Hearts 4? Contrast that with a company like Capcom, who has several IPs that are doing very well both financially and critically.
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
You're an idiot if you think the 30% drop was due to FF16.
KingT731
Member
People didn't even read what was said. SE said 16 did fine but it wasn't enough to cover the losses incurred from previous fiscal year combined with FF14 subs being down and the closure of some of their mobile games. Takashi Mochizuki people.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
from the link in OP's tweet. What a disaster at SE.
www.videogameschronicle.com
Square Enix’s stock has fallen 30% from its peak this year, wiping almost $2 billion off the company’s market value.
The Japanese publisher’s share price reached its highest point this year in the days running up to Final Fantasy 16’s release in June, but it closed on Wednesday at its lowest level since May 2022.
The slump comes after sales of the PS5 game reportedly failed to meet the high end of the company’s expectations.
But it also follows the disappointing performance of other big budget releases like 2020’s live service flop Marvel’s Avengers, support for which will end this month, and Forspoken, the debut game from Square Enix’s Luminous Productions studio, which launched to “lacklustre” sales, according to the company.
In a Bloomberg article analysing Square Enix’s recent downturn, anonymous employees and contractors claimed the company is suffering from issues with its game development structure and quality control, while analysts expressed concerns about its longer-term prospects.
“Flooding the market with unfinished, bad or untested games is a bad move,” Tokyo-based developer and gamer Michael Prefontaine said, referencing Marvel’s Avengers, Forspoken and The DioField Chronicl. “The company has overstretched itself on too many titles without proper oversight.”
Current and former Square Enix employees reportedly claimed one of the causes of such issues is Square Enix’s decision to give individual producers too much control over the scope and direction of projects. They also said games have suffered from inadequate documentation and team structure.
“We remain concerned with the company’s game development structure and game quality control, which could limit the longer term performance,” said Macquarie Capital Securities Japan analyst Yijia Zhai.
Square Enix has lost nearly $2bn in market value since Final Fantasy 16’s release | VGC
Employees and analysts express concerns about its development structure and quality control…
www.videogameschronicle.com
Square Enix has lost nearly $2bn in market value since Final Fantasy 16’s release
EMPLOYEES AND ANALYSTS EXPRESS CONCERNS ABOUT ITS DEVELOPMENT STRUCTURE AND QUALITY CONTROLSquare Enix’s stock has fallen 30% from its peak this year, wiping almost $2 billion off the company’s market value.
The Japanese publisher’s share price reached its highest point this year in the days running up to Final Fantasy 16’s release in June, but it closed on Wednesday at its lowest level since May 2022.
The slump comes after sales of the PS5 game reportedly failed to meet the high end of the company’s expectations.
But it also follows the disappointing performance of other big budget releases like 2020’s live service flop Marvel’s Avengers, support for which will end this month, and Forspoken, the debut game from Square Enix’s Luminous Productions studio, which launched to “lacklustre” sales, according to the company.
In a Bloomberg article analysing Square Enix’s recent downturn, anonymous employees and contractors claimed the company is suffering from issues with its game development structure and quality control, while analysts expressed concerns about its longer-term prospects.
“Flooding the market with unfinished, bad or untested games is a bad move,” Tokyo-based developer and gamer Michael Prefontaine said, referencing Marvel’s Avengers, Forspoken and The DioField Chronicl. “The company has overstretched itself on too many titles without proper oversight.”
Current and former Square Enix employees reportedly claimed one of the causes of such issues is Square Enix’s decision to give individual producers too much control over the scope and direction of projects. They also said games have suffered from inadequate documentation and team structure.
“We remain concerned with the company’s game development structure and game quality control, which could limit the longer term performance,” said Macquarie Capital Securities Japan analyst Yijia Zhai.
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
I cant believe they literally have anonymous sources directly blaming the producer. I think we all know who that means. Would maybe explain some of the baffling design decisions in the game.from the link in OP's tweet. What a disaster at SE.
Square Enix has lost nearly $2bn in market value since Final Fantasy 16’s release | VGC
Employees and analysts express concerns about its development structure and quality control…
Square Enix has lost nearly $2bn in market value since Final Fantasy 16’s release
EMPLOYEES AND ANALYSTS EXPRESS CONCERNS ABOUT ITS DEVELOPMENT STRUCTURE AND QUALITY CONTROL
Square Enix’s stock has fallen 30% from its peak this year, wiping almost $2 billion off the company’s market value.
The Japanese publisher’s share price reached its highest point this year in the days running up to Final Fantasy 16’s release in June, but it closed on Wednesday at its lowest level since May 2022.
The slump comes after sales of the PS5 game reportedly failed to meet the high end of the company’s expectations.
But it also follows the disappointing performance of other big budget releases like 2020’s live service flop Marvel’s Avengers, support for which will end this month, and Forspoken, the debut game from Square Enix’s Luminous Productions studio, which launched to “lacklustre” sales, according to the company.
In a Bloomberg article analysing Square Enix’s recent downturn, anonymous employees and contractors claimed the company is suffering from issues with its game development structure and quality control, while analysts expressed concerns about its longer-term prospects.
“Flooding the market with unfinished, bad or untested games is a bad move,” Tokyo-based developer and gamer Michael Prefontaine said, referencing Marvel’s Avengers, Forspoken and The DioField Chronicl. “The company has overstretched itself on too many titles without proper oversight.”
Current and former Square Enix employees reportedly claimed one of the causes of such issues is Square Enix’s decision to give individual producers too much control over the scope and direction of projects. They also said games have suffered from inadequate documentation and team structure.
“We remain concerned with the company’s game development structure and game quality control, which could limit the longer term performance,” said Macquarie Capital Securities Japan analyst Yijia Zhai.
Andrew Evenstar
Member
they're definitely gonna migrate all main line FF games to pachinko slots and mobile only -- mayb even stadia (goat console) - we'll see tho
Muffdraul
Member
Sorry, Squeenix, I did my part. I bought FFXVI at launch at full MSRP. I didn't expect to love it, but I bought it anyway. And as much I've felt like the FF franchise turned it's back on me and pushed me away in 2009, XVI is in fact the first mainline single player FF that I quit in the middle and doubt I'll ever go back to. Even FFXV, which I never felt the slightest hype for even when it was FFvsXIII, a game I was just never interested in even in the slightest, a game that went through such a sad slog of development hell that the game that came out on the other side was unrecognizable, even THAT sorry excuse for an FF game... I played the whole thing and when I finished it I thought, "Y'know, that was actually pretty good." While on the other hand it blows my mind that any self respecting FF OG has anything positive to say about XVI. What an absolute bore.
I have to wonder how FFXVI would have done in the marketplace if it played exactly as it does but had a style and visual design more in line with VII, VIII, X, XIII. Rather than the bog-standard pseudo medieval GoT/LotR crap that I got sick of 40 years ago after I'd played AD&D for four solid years. Eh, who am I kidding. In today's world that would have sold even less.
I have to wonder how FFXVI would have done in the marketplace if it played exactly as it does but had a style and visual design more in line with VII, VIII, X, XIII. Rather than the bog-standard pseudo medieval GoT/LotR crap that I got sick of 40 years ago after I'd played AD&D for four solid years. Eh, who am I kidding. In today's world that would have sold even less.
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Jigsaah
Gold Member
Hey I'm just sayin...maybe investors don't like what they are doing.
But yea, probably more Forspoken's fault. FF16 did well I thought, no?
Coming to PC soon anyways right? That's all I care about.
Raonak
Banned
What exactly were their expectations?
Ironically FF16 was the best game they've made in a long ass time. Everything outside of DQ has been a disappointment.
Its just that the FF fanbase has shrunk massively after not having a quality game since the PS2 generation.
In any case, big opportunity for Sony if they go hunting.
Ironically FF16 was the best game they've made in a long ass time. Everything outside of DQ has been a disappointment.
Its just that the FF fanbase has shrunk massively after not having a quality game since the PS2 generation.
In any case, big opportunity for Sony if they go hunting.
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Rhazer Fusion
Member
Sony should before Microsoft does, but I just don’t see them purchasing SE anytime soon. Sony just doesn’t seem to do huge acquisitions especially Japanese companies to my knowledge for the obvious reasons. Then again, I’m not sure if SE would better under Sony. They might Westernize them even more than they already are.Sony...
Otherwise MS might do it.
Haint
Member
I really shouldn't dignify this with a response cause you know you're full of shit proposing day and date launches of Remake and 16 would move "10's of thousands" of units, or a even "couple hundred thousand". But no I wasn't just talking about Xbox, I was assuming a day and date release on PC as well, which Sony's exclusivity contracts also explicitly bar.
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Musashipan
Member
I don't understand
Ff16 was a success
Ff16 was a success
Dirk Benedict
Member
I will, as soon as it comes to PC.
Square was betting all into mobile, MTX, and platform exclusivity:
They made a massive backtrack support on Xbox that is probably unprecedented in a big company, and then MS went to acquire Zenimax, increase their third party support with japanese developers which also saw Atlus, the current JPRG darling, bringing their games to the platform, including day one gamepass deals for Persona games, and even marketing rights for ReFantazio, thus filling the gap left by Square.
On the PC side, they also alienated most of the customers by having their games as EGS exclusives, some of them like Kingdom Hearts never appeared on Steam to this day. Final Fantasy 7 Remake launch on steam was so tepid that it only did 13k at its peak, again, Atlus got that market.
They made a massive backtrack support on Xbox that is probably unprecedented in a big company, and then MS went to acquire Zenimax, increase their third party support with japanese developers which also saw Atlus, the current JPRG darling, bringing their games to the platform, including day one gamepass deals for Persona games, and even marketing rights for ReFantazio, thus filling the gap left by Square.
On the PC side, they also alienated most of the customers by having their games as EGS exclusives, some of them like Kingdom Hearts never appeared on Steam to this day. Final Fantasy 7 Remake launch on steam was so tepid that it only did 13k at its peak, again, Atlus got that market.
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Guerilla Munch
Member
Yup.
FFVII through FFX was arguably the greatest run any gaming franchise has ever seen. Each of those games came out a year apart from each other (give or take) and each one is incredible in its own way. I remember the hype surrounding each one before release, it was one of the biggest franchises in existence.
Those tens of millions of fans are still around, and we have no way to scratch that old school FF itch. DQ11 was amazing, but that series is a whole different vibe.
Maybe when Mario RPG releases and sells 10+ million somebody at Square will see that there's still a market for their golden age style
In Cold Blood
Banned
Square are lost. They are caught between the old and the new, and not doing either well.
They need to do a Capcom, but they don't have the games library of them. There's only so many FF games that people want to play.
They need to do a Capcom, but they don't have the games library of them. There's only so many FF games that people want to play.
VideoHideo
Neo Member
I loved FF16 So much. It felt like a classic FF story from the snes era just with different gameplay. But reading gaf it feels like we played completely different games.
njean777
Member
I bought FF16 and am playing it and honestly if they wanted to release it on the ps4 they could have. Just drop the graphics here and there and it would run at 30fps fine.
I am no game developer and could be really wrong, just seems that way from what I have played so far.
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elbourreau
Member
YEah...
80$ for this...
And they though they would sale 89 trillions copies... Yeah...
80$ for this...
And they though they would sale 89 trillions copies... Yeah...
YeulEmeralda
Linux User
Things turn out good when Japanese use Western media and put their own twist on it.
But when they start copying it you might as well just play Baldur's Gate.
But when they start copying it you might as well just play Baldur's Gate.
-Zelda-
Banned
Seriously. If not that, then I want them to go full weird with the next FF and get Yoko Taro. Been wanting another console game from him anyway, so it would be win win. For me at least, so I know they wont take that chance.
-Zelda-
Banned
Things turn out good when Japanese use Western media and put their own twist on it.
But when they start copying it you might as well just play Baldur's Gate.
Dude, Lodoss War is my jam! I miss that Dreamcast game sequel to the anime and wish they would bring it back.
YeulEmeralda
Linux User
I don't give a shit about (S)NES Final Fantasy I fell in love with PS2 Final Fantasy.
At least the FF7 remake still has that touch.
Hudo
Member
What is Yoko Taro actually doing these days? Is he really that busy with that Nier mobile game?
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GigaBowser
The bear of bad news
we must support our jarpanese developers
OuterLimits
Member
I doubt regulators would care, but Sony is the clear market leader by a huge margin so any big acquisition would be looked at more closely perhaps. Especially since regulators strangely don't consider Nintendo as competition (which Microsoft argued they were). That position by regulators will seem even more bizarre when the more powerful Switch 2 releases.
Granted, I'm not sure Sony really needs to buy Square. They can merely drop off some cash and Square happily gives them exclusive deals for their big titles. Perhaps Sony may have to spend a bit more though when the Switch successor releases.
lyan
Member
He is involved with square enix on nier reincarnation and sinoalice, also on 404 game reset with sega.
Silver Wattle
Gold Member
Devil May Cry 16 "reached expectations", no banging the drums about its sales though, so I highly doubt it sold what they projected internally and instead are just saying that to stop shareholder anger.
It seems to me that the main problem with Final Fantasy 16 is that the game itself doesn’t know what it wants to be.
If we take this game specifically as Final Fantasy, it is an extremely mediocre product that, in principle, has nothing in common with the DNA of Final Fantasy. The game is incredibly linear, in fact you are led by the hand from beginning to end, there are only 2 “open world” locations in the game, and they are practically empty and there is not much to do in them. In principle, the game lacks at least some intelligible semblance of an RPG; there are numbers in the menu that, in mean nothing and have practically no effect on anything. The party members, who in the FF series were much more interesting than the main characters, are not there either.
If we consider it as an Action game, it has a rather mediocre combat system, which is entirely based on cooldowns between skills and quick switching between skill panels. And in itself it is quite wooden (I won’t even raise the question that they added items to the game that automatically do combos for you, dodge attacks, etc. - we go through the game by pressing one button). And for me this is a rather strange decision, since they had a pretty good example of a combat system from Nier, which needed to be modernized a little, add a few new elements, and it would have turned out much more interesting than what they did. This is despite the fact that, as they themselves said, the combat system was handled by the person who made it for DMC 5, but in the end it turned out much worse.
And as a result, we got a game that wants to be Final Fantasy, but in spirit it doesn’t work out, it can also wanta to be DMS5, but at the same time the combat system does not reach this level.
It seems to me that this game should have been Spinof and had a separate name, and then from a marketing point of view it would have helped it. Because it absolutely does not hold up as a pure numbered part of Final Fantasy.
If we take this game specifically as Final Fantasy, it is an extremely mediocre product that, in principle, has nothing in common with the DNA of Final Fantasy. The game is incredibly linear, in fact you are led by the hand from beginning to end, there are only 2 “open world” locations in the game, and they are practically empty and there is not much to do in them. In principle, the game lacks at least some intelligible semblance of an RPG; there are numbers in the menu that, in mean nothing and have practically no effect on anything. The party members, who in the FF series were much more interesting than the main characters, are not there either.
If we consider it as an Action game, it has a rather mediocre combat system, which is entirely based on cooldowns between skills and quick switching between skill panels. And in itself it is quite wooden (I won’t even raise the question that they added items to the game that automatically do combos for you, dodge attacks, etc. - we go through the game by pressing one button). And for me this is a rather strange decision, since they had a pretty good example of a combat system from Nier, which needed to be modernized a little, add a few new elements, and it would have turned out much more interesting than what they did. This is despite the fact that, as they themselves said, the combat system was handled by the person who made it for DMC 5, but in the end it turned out much worse.
And as a result, we got a game that wants to be Final Fantasy, but in spirit it doesn’t work out, it can also wanta to be DMS5, but at the same time the combat system does not reach this level.
It seems to me that this game should have been Spinof and had a separate name, and then from a marketing point of view it would have helped it. Because it absolutely does not hold up as a pure numbered part of Final Fantasy.