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[Little Chicken]

Anti-human policies.

Expose the money laundering and leave.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

clarky , you live in Europe, don't you?

The EU limit is 48 hours across the board, exceptions can be made if there is a different national limit, but even those don't exceed 60 hours, and are on a temporary basis; 60-100 hours would be illegal and no employer is gonna risk the consequences.

 

[Little Chicken]

We don't have any lol.

It is not illegal to work 7 days in a row in the UK but employees have the right to a 24-hour uninterrupted rest period for a 7-day period. If an employee works for more than 7 days straight, they have the right to have a 48-hour uninterrupted rest period for each 14-day period.

 

[Topher]

The EU limit is 48 hours across the board, exceptions can be made if there is a different national limit, but even those don't exceed 60 hours, and are on a temporary basis; 60-100 hours would be illegal and no employer is gonna risk the consequences.

What if an employee wants to work more than 60 hours to make extra money? Is that now allowed?

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

What if an employee wants to work more than 60 hours to make extra money? Is that now allowed?

Yeah but it needs to be a written agreement.

 

[Sgt.Asher]

Just watch all the cultists jizz their pants over a few cinematics and forget that CIG fails every time they do something.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

What if an employee wants to work more than 60 hours to make extra money? Is that now allowed?

no, I believe some countries allow to waive the legal limit, but that isn't done lightly and involves a lot of paper work, sometimes it wouldn't even be possible because whatever worker's rights group/union governs the agreements doesn't allow it.

 

[Loomy]

$700 million United States of America Dollars. You'd think they'd be able to afford some extra people and competent product managers.

 

[clarky]

What if an employee wants to work more than 60 hours to make extra money? Is that now allowed?

Of course it is. I've worked in Europe loads, you just sign a wavier.

Its the same in the UK.

Maximum weekly working hours

Working time directive and maximum weekly working hours including how to calculate your weekly working hours and working time limits if you're a young worker.

www.gov.uk

60 hours a week is par for the course in construction, most guys won't even take a job that offers less.

 

[StereoVsn]

But it will only last until game is released kappa

So 10 more years!?

 

[Topher]

So 10 more years!?

I'm just hoping they can push out gotdang Squadron 42 in my lifetime.

 

[Comandr]

Seems like you are quite knowleadgeable about game development, so please tell us what is the reason that game that should have been released 10 years ago still doesn't have even vague release date? Maybe there is some benefit for higher-ups to stretch this process as much as they can?

Its scope and feature creep. I'm not denying that. I will state that there are quite a few tools that did not exist prior to CIG developing them for SC. The game promised in the original kickstarter campaign was significantly more limited in scope. I would know, I was a backer.

For instance, they were hand crafting every planet until they developed the tech to procedurally generate them while still retaining a crafted look.

The whole engineering gameplay concept had to be built from the ground up where electrical systems have a physical presence in the ship and can be damaged by external gunfire or repaired or sabotaged internally by players.

Then there's the server meshing that enables multiple players to persist and interact over multiple areas of the game world with no loading; including interacting with persistent items. Someone lands their ship on a planet, gets out, logs out for a week, you could theoretically see that ship from space and strip it for salvage if you wanted.

These systems aren't just plugins that CryEngine had waiting to be used. Building these tools takes time.

All of this information is freely available from CIG. You can literally watch their programmers work; they have whole episodes on their channel where you follow a given developer and he talks you through the things he does in a given day. But I guess it's easier to just write it all off as a big scam. Those are just paid actors I suppose.

***

Do you think Sony gave Concord 400 million all up front? Orrrr... perhaps as development went on for 8 years they needed more and more and more money? Diablo 3 was in development for 12 years. Do you suppose they had their entire budget handed to them up front? What about GTA6? It's been a decade since that game began development; and yes, design and concepting counts. FFXV was famously a completely different game before the whole fuckin thing got shredded and turned into something else. Someone funded that and I'm sure they weren't pleased with that turn around. Silk Song was announced almost 6 years ago. Where's that game?

The point is: these things happen in game development; most of the time it's just behind closed doors.

 

[StereoVsn]

I'm just hoping they can push out gotdang Squadron 42 in my lifetime.

Man, I remember being quite excited back during kickstarter!

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Of course it is. I've worked in Europe loads, you just sign a wavier

Not possible in the netherlands, germany, belgium or france at least, france law explicitely states that employees are not allow to opt-out of the legal maximum, if you signed a waiver there it's illegal.

 

[Griffon]

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

I'm just hoping they can push out gotdang Squadron 42 in my lifetime.

So are the developers lmao

 

[Topher]

So are the developers lmao

lol

"Another internal email sent to Insider Gaming in July 2024 reveals that Cloud Imperium Games “pre-approved” 12 hours of ‘SQ42 TOIL’ per week for developers to meet Citizencon deadlines. The catch? The TOIL will only be made available after Squadron 42 ships, and employees must still be employed with the company by the time the game ships, or the TOIL “will be forfeited.”"

I think even most of us Americans would acknowledge that this is fucked up.

 

[Comandr]

lol

"Another internal email sent to Insider Gaming in July 2024 reveals that Cloud Imperium Games “pre-approved” 12 hours of ‘SQ42 TOIL’ per week for developers to meet Citizencon deadlines. The catch? The TOIL will only be made available after Squadron 42 ships, and employees must still be employed with the company by the time the game ships, or the TOIL “will be forfeited.”"

I think even most of us Americans would acknowledge that this is fucked up.

It is fucked up but not unusual. An enormous amount of people get vacation hours refreshed annually and whatever you don't use, you lose. So if you didn't take the 8 days of paid vacation you have left during this term, that money is just gone. Furthermore, there are plenty of workplaces that have holiday blackout dates during certain times - like basically every retail job in the united states. You will be available for black friday and the days leading up to christmas, period.

 

[FoxMcChief]

I mean, this games development is all about money laundering right?

 

[clarky]

lol

"Another internal email sent to Insider Gaming in July 2024 reveals that Cloud Imperium Games “pre-approved” 12 hours of ‘SQ42 TOIL’ per week for developers to meet Citizencon deadlines. The catch? The TOIL will only be made available after Squadron 42 ships, and employees must still be employed with the company by the time the game ships, or the TOIL “will be forfeited.”"

I think even most of us Americans would acknowledge that this is fucked up.

These dudes are going to end up with around a year off in lue by the time S42 ships lol.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

lol

"Another internal email sent to Insider Gaming in July 2024 reveals that Cloud Imperium Games “pre-approved” 12 hours of ‘SQ42 TOIL’ per week for developers to meet Citizencon deadlines. The catch? The TOIL will only be made available after Squadron 42 ships, and employees must still be employed with the company by the time the game ships, or the TOIL “will be forfeited.”"

I think even most of us Americans would acknowledge that this is fucked up.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

It is fucked up but not unusual.

I can't think of many places where your TOIL is held hostage over a game that may or may not come out

 

[Topher]

It is fucked up but not unusual. An enormous amount of people get vacation hours refreshed annually and whatever you don't use, you lose. So if you didn't take the 8 days of paid vacation you have left during this term, that money is just gone. Furthermore, there are plenty of workplaces that have holiday blackout dates during certain times - like basically every retail job in the united states. You will be available for black friday and the days leading up to christmas, period.

Yeah, I have use or lose vacation, but that only applies to the current year and I am allowed to use it whenever I want. But this ain't vacation hours or a retail job. This is comp time that you may never get. That is unusual. And if they cannot use their comp time can they not take vacation either?

 

[clarky]

I can't think of many places where your TOIL is held hostage over a game that may or may not come out

I like their style. Certainly got some front.

 

[Ribi]

Sometimes work has to get done. It's not a big deal. We are talking about two weekends.

Literally SLAVES

 

[Topher]

Literally SLAVES

lol......you mean "literally" nothing like slaves

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Yeah, I have use or lose vacation, but that only applies to the current year and I am allowed to use it whenever I want. But this ain't vacation hours or a retail job. This is comp time that you may never get. That is unusual. And if they cannot use their comp time can they not take vacation either?

 

[Comandr]

I can't think of many places where your TOIL is held hostage over a game that may or may not come out

Are you in the US? Because we don't have TOIL here. I wasn't referring to any european practices in my post. Topher said that even americans would think it's fucked up. I agree. But americans don't deal with that; there may be similar practices at a given business, but we don't have TOIL, per se.

 

[Ribi]

lol......you mean "literally" nothing like slaves

Forced into labor. Someone should call PETA or Switzerland

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Are you in the US? Because we don't have TOIL here. I wasn't referring to any european practices in my post. Topher said that even americans would think it's fucked up. I agree. But americans don't deal with that; there may be similar practices at a given business, but we don't have TOIL, per se.

Lol yes you do. it's just not called TOIL

 

[proandrad]

Get you, you are just regurgitating shite because you have no idea what you are talking about.

Game has been playable and "out" in one form or another for many years now.

You a donator that is trying to justify your wasted donation? It’s just a shit post no need to get defensive over it.

 

[Topher]

Are you in the US? Because we don't have TOIL here. I wasn't referring to any european practices in my post. Topher said that even americans would think it's fucked up. I agree. But americans don't deal with that; there may be similar practices at a given business, but we don't have TOIL, per se.

TOIL and comp time are the same thing. We have this in the US.

Forced into labor. Someone should call PETA or Switzerland

They are making their pets write code?

 

[clarky]

You a donator that is trying to justify your wasted donation? It’s just a shit post no need to get defensive over it.

Nope just pointing out your error. No skin in the game.

 

[StereoVsn]

Its scope and feature creep. I'm not denying that. I will state that there are quite a few tools that did not exist prior to CIG developing them for SC. The game promised in the original kickstarter campaign was significantly more limited in scope. I would know, I was a backer.

For instance, they were hand crafting every planet until they developed the tech to procedurally generate them while still retaining a crafted look.

The whole engineering gameplay concept had to be built from the ground up where electrical systems have a physical presence in the ship and can be damaged by external gunfire or repaired or sabotaged internally by players.

Then there's the server meshing that enables multiple players to persist and interact over multiple areas of the game world with no loading; including interacting with persistent items. Someone lands their ship on a planet, gets out, logs out for a week, you could theoretically see that ship from space and strip it for salvage if you wanted.

These systems aren't just plugins that CryEngine had waiting to be used. Building these tools takes time.

All of this information is freely available from CIG. You can literally watch their programmers work; they have whole episodes on their channel where you follow a given developer and he talks you through the things he does in a given day. But I guess it's easier to just write it all off as a big scam. Those are just paid actors I suppose.

***

Do you think Sony gave Concord 400 million all up front? Orrrr... perhaps as development went on for 8 years they needed more and more and more money? Diablo 3 was in development for 12 years. Do you suppose they had their entire budget handed to them up front? What about GTA6? It's been a decade since that game began development; and yes, design and concepting counts. FFXV was famously a completely different game before the whole fuckin thing got shredded and turned into something else. Someone funded that and I'm sure they weren't pleased with that turn around. Silk Song was announced almost 6 years ago. Where's that game?

The point is: these things happen in game development; most of the time it's just behind closed doors.

The issue is half that shit isn’t needed, especially for Squadron 42. Also, they could have released MVP product and then work other things in for expansions and rolling support.

 

[Comandr]

TOIL and comp time are the same thing. We have this in the US.

I think I'm being misunderstood. I just was saying we don't have "TOIL" as ordained by the european union. Because we aren't in europe. Not that we don't have similar practices. I said as much in my post.

 

[Topher]

I think I'm being misunderstood. I just was saying we don't have "TOIL" as ordained by the european union. Because we aren't in europe. Not that we don't have similar practices. I said as much in my post.

ah...yeah I misunderstood

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

I think I'm being misunderstood. I just was saying we don't have "TOIL" as ordained by the european union. Because we aren't in europe. Not that we don't have similar practices. I said as much in my post.

The semantics are irrelevent.

 

[rodrigolfp]

I mean, this games development is all about money laundering right?

Considering Concord budget, maybe not.

 

[Comandr]

The issue is half that shit isn’t needed, especially for Squadron 42. Also, they could have released MVP product and then work other things in for expansions and rolling support.

Who gets to define "what's needed?" in a video game. There would be plenty that would argue that none of the substories are "needed" in yakuza. I would firmly disagree. Furthermore, Squadron 42 is being worked on by its own development team. There is some overlap but by and large, S42 and SC are being developed by two separate teams under the same roof. So the SC working on their shit has no reason to affect features that don't exist in S42.

 

[StereoVsn]

I think I'm being misunderstood. I just was saying we don't have "TOIL" as ordained by the european union. Because we aren't in europe. Not that we don't have similar practices. I said as much in my post.

Isn’t TOIL a UK term which isn’t part of EU?

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

So if you didn't take the 8 days of paid vacation you have left during this term, that money is just gone.

Yes but in most of europe vacation hours will be paid out when you resign, many people will opt to use the remaining time for their notice period, because taxes will be pretty harsh on the payout.
I believe some US states, like california, will have similar agreements.
This TOIL just seems to be gone if you leave for whatever reason beforehand

 

[Swagballs717]

Because people see open development going on for years, know nothing about game development, and shout their armchair opinions on internet message boards.

I want you to tell me how charging tens of thousands of dollars for virtual spaceships for a game that will likely never reach version 1.0 isn't a scam.

 

[Comandr]

I want you to tell me how charging tens of thousands of dollars for virtual spaceships for a game that will likely never reach version 1.0 isn't a scam.

1) No one put a gun to anyone's head and made them pay anything. The entry price of the game for all of its features is $40. If you backed early enough, it included Squadron 42. So.. Two games for that price.
2) Your comment is pure cynical conjecture. It's my understanding that after alpha 4.0 will be the full release. Alpha 4.0 is the next major update, so it's not like that's some infinitely far off goal.

 

[ReyBrujo]

Unfortunately it's not uncommon in the software industry. To meet a 2006 CCHIT certification I had to stay 3 days at the office sleeping in chairs or a sofa mostly because we ended at the wee hours of the morning and traveling home and back usually took me 5 hours. Fortunately we haven't had to spent a all-nighter in over a decade now.