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[jellies_two]

I believe that Arthur c Clarke thing about an advanced civilisation being indistinguishable from magic, but often wonder whether the amount of development distance (by some law), breaks any meaningful communication possibilities, and whether that applies both down and up the same way.

For example, we cannot two way communicate with a termite mound. But is it safe to say a super advanced civilisation can communicate at some level with anyone more primitive - as long as they have reached the "think therefore I am" stage? Is there backward compatibility built in?

They may not have the slightest inclination to do so, but is it probably possible, or probably impossible, the way it is impossible for us to talk to an earthworm.

Also I am not even sure "advanced" is a quantity measred in units. Maybe in time civilisations get more complicated in some ways but lose complexity in other ways and this linear idea of further advanced / less advanced is some primitive kind of bias from our position at the top of a food chain. Maybe aliens are just ... Different. So different only a few alien types can ever converse.

I miss 70s sci fi I guess.

 

[Joey Fox]

That's kind of mind boggling to think about. If we sent a signal out today it would take nearly 3000 years to get a response, if we even get any. Imagine if we did, though, after all that time, presuming humanity is still around then.

Kepler looked at a tiny slice of the sky. There is likely another star with this anomaly within 100 light years.

We could contact one of these stars within our lifetimes if we hurry up and build the instruments.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

I could see it being a mega structure if they were a race of machines. Biological entities are too puny and weak. Unless they are some hybrid biomechanical race.
That's where I think we are headed anyhow.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

And the light we observed is 1450 years old - meaning at this moment, their tech level is even more advanced.

Or they're dead

 

[Flo_Evans]

A dyson sphere doesnt transmit any signals per say, altrough the use of it can generate radio waves. For example, we can detect radio waves from stars, but that doesnt mean there are little aliens transmiting. they are just natural generated electromagnetic waves.

Also a species advanced enough to build dysonspheres are definatly able to mask the waves so it looks like a natural source (especially to our limited monkey bains)

And the light we observed is 1450 years old - meaning at this moment, their tech level is even more advanced. Also even if we would be able to detect their radiowaves and classify them as alien made, it would take us 1450 years to reach them if we would be traveling at the speed of light.

Right, but we easily detected the variation in the stars light output.

This could mean a few things. They didn't think anyone would notice, or they didn't think anyone would do anything about it, or they figured they would be gone by the time something could reach them.

It very well could be offensive in nature, maybe we are seeing another systems star being attacked right now (real life Star Wars omg) maybe it's a collector for the purpose of concentrating and using a stars energy to cook planets. We could be staring down the barrel of a galactic gun right now.

To say any civilization or single entity must be nice to reach a certain level of advanced technology is kind of crazy and ignores the universe is infinite.

 

[aaaaa0]

Wouldn't that be a little problematic when said species is at a similar level of development as we currently are? Such a selfish mindset would be problematic when the consumption of resources begins to create irreparable damage to their planet.

Who says they even have individual mindsets?

What if they're like an ant-colony and are hostile to anything that's not them, but perfectly cooperative within their species.

 

[aaaaa0]

That's because we're a pretty shitty species. If there were aliens, and there aren't, they wouldn't necessarily be as ass backwards as we are.

You assume they'd notice us at all.

For a civilization that advanced to destroy us, it wouldn't require hostility, merely indifference.

They could disassemble Earth and all of the planets in the solar system to build a hyperspace bypass (lol), and not even notice or care one iota about the human civilization they just wiped out, just like we don't notice or care about all the bacteria our immune systems are wiping out every second of every day, or the insect colonies a bulldozer crushes when building a freeway.

 

[RPGCrazied]

Lets just hope they are friendly.

I do believe there is life out there in the cosmos, really can't just be us.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Also, think about Moore's law. A very advanced entity wouldn't be able to start any major project because it would make those projects obsolete rather quickly. You don't start building a huge power collector that might take 500 years to build, only to find a new energy source 50 years later that make the huge project obsolete. So it's likely that the more advanced the "aliens" are, the more they operate across longer timescales than we would. Maybe the structure we are seeing, if there is one, is an ongoing project. Maybe it's a big antenna, or a big circular fan-like solar energy captor, and we only a slice had been built so far.

 

[Gallbaro]

Or they're dead

Or they have removed themselves of their weak mortal exoskeletons and are now part of a larger hive with drones to mine resources they come across so they can continue to expand the largest computer ever, at the rate Moore's law demands.

Or it is future us, telling present us in a weird paradox to make a left.

 

[Slayer-33]

Or they have removed themselves of their weak mortal exoskeletons and are now part of a larger hive with drones to mine resources they come across so they can continue to expand the largest computer ever, at the rate Moore's law demands.

Or it is future us, telling present us in a weird paradox to make a left.

Fuuuuuuck

 

[Badlucktroll]

So, basically this star has something around it, and they said that if it was gas and dust it would emit infrared light, yet, it emits no infrared light? 0_0

 

[Skinpop]

Also, think about Moore's law. A very advanced entity wouldn't be able to start any major project because it would make those projects obsolete rather quickly. You don't start building a huge power collector that might take 500 years to build, only to find a new energy source 50 years later that make the huge project obsolete. So it's likely that the more advanced the "aliens" are, the more they operate across longer timescales than we would. Maybe the structure we are seeing, if there is one, is an ongoing project. Maybe it's a big antenna, or a big circular fan-like solar energy captor, and we only a slice had been built so far.

it wouldn't take 500 years to build a dyson swarm. maybe 50 if even that, providing a decent source of materials. the idea is that the whole construction pipeline is automated, so while it's slow at first it gets faster exponentially.

Dyson swarms make sense because they don't require any magical tech or physics. it's something we arguably already have the tech to build since at the basic level it's just a bunch of solar panels up in space.

it's hard to imagine any energy source we could harness that would have a greater energy output than the sun/a star.

 

[Fenderputty]

Or it is future us, telling present us in a weird paradox to make a left.

Future us would have to travel back in time 1500 years from current to do so.

 

[TimeEffect]

Or they have removed themselves of their weak mortal exoskeletons and are now part of a larger hive with drones to mine resources they come across so they can continue to expand the largest computer ever, at the rate Moore's law demands.

Or it is future us, telling present us in a weird paradox to make a left.

You know, an advanced civilization is bound to have their consciousness/brains transferred to a robot. They are probably immortal.

 

[nomis]

 

[mAcOdIn]

You assume they'd notice us at all.

For a civilization that advanced to destroy us, it wouldn't require hostility, merely indifference.

They could disassemble Earth and all of the planets in the solar system to build a hyperspace bypass (lol), and not even notice or care one iota about the human civilization they just wiped out, just like we don't notice or care about all the bacteria our immune systems are wiping out every second of every day, or the insect colonies a bulldozer crushes when building a freeway.

I don't buy this at all. The only way this makes any sense is if the aliens were born in space and eat fucking planets like Unicron or some shit. Otherwise, assuming they originated from a planet, no matter what they're made of, what they look like or how smart or stupid they are they went through the same struggle we did to get out of their atmosphere and tons of similar phases. They're bound to know what (artificial) satellites are and that they don't just happen naturally, bound to know what all the signals we leak out mean even if they'er not trying to pick up a local station on their fancy ass tvs.

So I'm pretty sure that they'd notice us.

Now, indifference, that's another matter entirely. While I'm sure they could and would recognize that our planet hosts an intelligent species if they came close to Earth to rip it apart you are right they may not give a fuck either way. They may have watched species rise and fall like we watch the Simpsons get renewed to the point where they don't give a fuck. They may have come across so many sentient life forms and their remains that they don't think it's a big deal at all, they may not think that's special at all. But, if they did decide to use the Earth as buildings blocks for a highway I guarantee you that they'd at least know that they're wiping out an intelligent species to do so.

 

[Insane Metal]

This is exciting, but there's no way that's an alien structure. I'm excited to see what we find out about this star.

 

[Gallbaro]

Future us would have to travel back in time 1500 years from current to do so.

Great Scott!

 

[Slayer-33]

This is exciting, but there's no way that's an alien structure. I'm excited to see what we find out about this star.

It's definitely intelligent life made bro.

Sucks that we probably won't be able to confirm unless we receive signals.

 

[3phemeral]

This is exciting, but there's no way that's an alien structure. I'm excited to see what we find out about this star.

I only hope that it is. I mean, imagine our cultural shift knowing there are aliens only 1500 ly away and that they've had this technology 1500 years ago? I'd gather we'd get a lot of things done more quickly knowing there's a superior life form out there.

 

[zethren]

I have a hard time thinking that a civilization capable of creating a megastructure around its star would be able to reach that level while being a hostile group bent on destruction and enslavement.

I think it's more a self reflection on humanity than anything.

I absolutely agree.
I think that if we were ever to encounter a hyper advanced alien species, either we wouldn't even know it or they would be a peaceful and productive people.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

I absolutely agree.
I think that if we were ever to encounter a hyper advanced alien species, either we wouldn't even know it or they would be a peaceful and productive people.

"Peaceful and productive". What if they are like ants/robots or something, and do not understand things like emotions? A species that just wants to reproduce and expand, without caring about other life-forms. Maybe some degree of violence is required for a species to survive that long, to get so dominant? Our species is the best example for this I guess, a peaceful, but incredibly advanced species seems to be wishful thinking imo.

 

[koryuken]

Future us would have to travel back in time 1500 years from current to do so.

According to Mr. Hawking, time only moves in one direction. You can "accelerate" the passage of time by being next to a black hole, flying at the speed of light, etc, but you can never go back in time.

 

[Stinkles]

No way they would be indifferent, zoologists still get excited once a new species of spiders is found somewhere in the middle of nowhere. I don't know where this idea that they would destroy us like ants comes from, unless A.I. took over and somehow saw every carbon based life as hostile.

Anthropomorphism is a helluva drug.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Pretty sure this is the beginning of the plot to mass effect.

 

[RustyNails]

So when are we gonna get the straight dope on these megastructures? Will there be a press conference any time soon?

 

[Abstruse Moose]

So when are we gonna get the straight dope on these megastructures? Will there be a press conference any time soon?

Still in wait and see mode. I imagine there are quite a few telescopes pointed at it.

 

[Quazar]

So when are we gonna get the straight dope on these megastructures? Will there be a press conference any time soon?

From what I understand we have to wait for published results first. Paper has been written though two Friday's ago I believe.

 

[RustyNails]

Thanks gents.

 

[EVIL]

Right, but we easily detected the variation in the stars light output.

This could mean a few things. They didn't think anyone would notice, or they didn't think anyone would do anything about it, or they figured they would be gone by the time something could reach them.

It very well could be offensive in nature, maybe we are seeing another systems star being attacked right now (real life Star Wars omg) maybe it's a collector for the purpose of concentrating and using a stars energy to cook planets. We could be staring down the barrel of a galactic gun right now.

To say any civilization or single entity must be nice to reach a certain level of advanced technology is kind of crazy and ignores the universe is infinite.

We can detect the variation in their stars light output, but that shit is so rough, we dont know if its simply a band of astroids, planitary debris, or whatever. there is a 99.99999% chance its simply natural. its general "shits that blocks the light from the star because it rotates around it" that dims the light and these objects do it unlike most, which most likely is something totally natural and obviously for most scientist this idea isnt even a spec on their radar, but for those who work at seti, and dedicate their scientific field to the search of intelligent life, this find is extremely exiting because its something strange and a good subject to point their radio telescopes to.

 

[sans_pants]

I don't buy this at all. The only way this makes any sense is if the aliens were born in space and eat fucking planets like Unicron or some shit. Otherwise, assuming they originated from a planet, no matter what they're made of, what they look like or how smart or stupid they are they went through the same struggle we did to get out of their atmosphere and tons of similar phases. They're bound to know what (artificial) satellites are and that they don't just happen naturally, bound to know what all the signals we leak out mean even if they'er not trying to pick up a local station on their fancy ass tvs.

So I'm pretty sure that they'd notice us.

Now, indifference, that's another matter entirely. While I'm sure they could and would recognize that our planet hosts an intelligent species if they came close to Earth to rip it apart you are right they may not give a fuck either way. They may have watched species rise and fall like we watch the Simpsons get renewed to the point where they don't give a fuck. They may have come across so many sentient life forms and their remains that they don't think it's a big deal at all, they may not think that's special at all. But, if they did decide to use the Earth as buildings blocks for a highway I guarantee you that they'd at least know that they're wiping out an intelligent species to do so.

if they were looking at us now, it would be around the year 500ad

 

[aaaaa0]

I don't buy this at all. The only way this makes any sense is if the aliens were born in space and eat fucking planets like Unicron or some shit.

That's the thing.

You're assuming they'd even be the ones to visit us, and not some automated machines they built specifically to disassemble planets and build giant energy collectors so their interstellar ships could easily refuel while traversing our region of space.

Those machines might never bother reporting back about some ant hill they bulldozed. Or even if they do, we could be a footnote at the bottom of some boring construction report filed away somewhere.

 

[Yka]

Art Bell and his guest are talking right now about star KIC 8462852. Live stream on Dark Matter Digital Network and TuneIn.

EDIT: Linda was on C2CAM last week...

Earthfiles investigative reporter Linda Moulton Howe discussed a star that is emitting a light pattern which is stranger than any of the 150,000 stars studied by the Kepler Space Telescope in the past four years. The light pattern of a middle aged star called KIC 8462852, some 1,480 light-years from Earth suggests that some kind of complex matter structure is circling the star, causing intermittent brightening and dimming by "a mass of objects," according to Prof. Jason Wright, an astronomer at Penn State University. He told Linda that he and his colleagues are studying all possible natural explanations, and the exotic though unlikely possibility that it could be a "swarm of megastructures" built by an advanced alien civilization to harvest energy from the star. At the suggestion of the Penn State team, SETI started pointing their Green Bank radio telescope at the unusual star to check for signals. More here.

...and now they're talking about crop circles...

Yeah, Linda's science reports and interviews are solid but she also covers stuff that is really out there.

I treat that stuff like science fiction so it doesn't bother me but I understand that it turns some people off.

 

[Joey Fox]

Art Bell and his guest are talking right now about star KIC 8462852. Live stream on Dark Matter Digital Network and TuneIn.

Who is talking? "Linda" makes it sound like it's happening.

Edit: and now they're talking about crop circles. Could those things be legit? I'll just wait on the scientific papers

 

[parmanu]

I have a different question.

Could there be intelligent beings for whom sense of time-scale is different. For example for ant's perception of 1 second is different compared to us humans.

If we take this analogy further, there could be intelligent beings who could live for thousand/millions of years and for whom 1 second (instant) is like our 1 year?

If we ever meet such beings, it would be a interesting event.

Also about this star, I saw someone mentioning about some species using it as a message broadcaster (beacon). I find it interesting. Radio waves lose their energy as they propagated further, plus they have to be very focused. On the other hand light from a star propagates through all directions, forever. What do you think about such a proposition?

 

[jiggle]

Also about this star, I saw someone mentioning about some species using it as a message broadcaster (beacon). I find it interesting.

That was the part that really grabbed my attention
Never occurred to my feeble mind before
Such simple idea that sounds effective but still require sufficient technology to achieve

 

[The Mule]

I have a different question.

Could there be intelligent beings for whom sense of time-scale is different. For example for ant's perception of 1 second is different compared to us humans.

If we take this analogy further, there could be intelligent beings who could live for thousand/millions of years and for whom 1 second (instant) is like our 1 year?

If we ever meet such beings, it would be a interesting event.

Sure it's possible. Depending on the difference between our perceptions of time we may have already encountered them and neither party would be aware.

Also about this star, I saw someone mentioning about some species using it as a message broadcaster (beacon). I find it interesting. Radio waves lose their energy as they propagated further, plus they have to be very focused. On the other hand light from a star propagates through all directions, forever. What do you think about such a proposition?

Light (visible) and radio waves are the same thing, just a different part of the electromagnetic (EM) spectrum.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Has anyone considered that it could just be rings of debris from the result of a planet destroying super weapon?

 

[FunkyDealer]

KIC 8462852

What a name.

Could it not be a large planet orbiting it? Or several large planets if the pattern is frequent.

 

[maquiladora]

Also about this star, I saw someone mentioning about some species using it as a message broadcaster (beacon). I find it interesting. Radio waves lose their energy as they propagated further, plus they have to be very focused. On the other hand light from a star propagates through all directions, forever. What do you think about such a proposition?

Philip Morrison suggested exactly that. Back in the 70's I believe.

 

[Abstruse Moose]

KIC 8462852

What a name.

Could it not be a large planet orbiting it? Or several large planets if the pattern is frequent.

No. A Jupiter sized planet blocks less than 1% of light. This object is blocking 22%. Planets have been ruled out.

 

[Kazuhira]

Let's hope it's an asari ship,oh yeah baby i'm ready. *crossing fingers*

 

[IndoAssassin]

No. A Jupiter sized planet blocks less than 1% of light. This object is blocking 22%. Planets have been ruled out.

What about a brown dwarf or dark matter distorting the light?

 

[Gallbaro]

Also about this star, I saw someone mentioning about some species using it as a message broadcaster (beacon). I find it interesting. Radio waves lose their energy as they propagated further, plus they have to be very focused. On the other hand light from a star propagates through all directions, forever. What do you think about such a proposition?

Technicality, but traditional radio waves actually lose less power over long distance, suns just tend to have a much more powerful emission source.

 

[Red]

What about a brown dwarf or dark matter distorting the light?

Dark matter does not interact with light.

 

[mAcOdIn]

if they were looking at us now, it would be around the year 500ad

That's a different issue I didn't mean taht if this star has advanced life that they must know we're here, I'm just saying if someone came to the planet Earth that they would know.

That's the thing.

You're assuming they'd even be the ones to visit us, and not some automated machines they built specifically to disassemble planets and build giant energy collectors so their interstellar ships could easily refuel while traversing our region of space.

Those machines might never bother reporting back about some ant hill they bulldozed. Or even if they do, we could be a footnote at the bottom of some boring construction report filed away somewhere.

Several things, If they build automated machines that would rip Earth apart without knowing there's advanced life there, then that species are assholes. This is of course conjecture but it seems like a nobrainer that if they could send machines out there to do such a complex task and were not hostile assholes that they'd program the things to check for a few things that would be tell tell signs of advanced life. Granted humanity a few hundred years ago probably would not have made the cut but we're not living back then. They'd have to be assholes. I just can't imagine them being peacenicks but somehow believing they're the only things out there and sending mass planetary destroyers out there that may piss off tons of possible hostile and possibly even more powerful races and bring them back to their doorstep. That's just a level of hubris that of course could happen but I don't think it warrants serious thought.

Further, a refueling station to go fucking where? I mean, it's totally possible that thousands of years ago aliens flew through here, saw nothing of interest, and kept going, ok, and maybe they did set up shop somewhere else and think this would be a good refueling point. I guess. But that begs the question why not set up shop here? What kind of god awful rare environment must they need to fly past a life bearing planet and 7(sorry pluto) other planets of various make to set up shop elsewhere?

 

[Log4Girlz]

Dark matter does not interact with light.

Then why do they call it dark matter genius?





Lol

 

[Gallbaro]

Dark matter does not interact with light.

Racist.

 

[FunkyDealer]

No. A Jupiter sized planet blocks less than 1% of light. This object is blocking 22%. Planets have been ruled out.

But what if it's a planet more than 22 times the size of Jupiter? Or over 22 Jupiter-sized planets in a cluster?