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[nib95]

Finally got ourselves a good supercut/mashup of all the teasers/trailers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIRoASL90EI

Incredible.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

The impact of this movie is going to be gigantic. Star Wars for a whole new generation right there. Wow.

77 - 99 was a difference of a generation, this isn't quite as long, though obviously there will always be people who experience SW for the first time.

 

[Turin Turambar]

I can understand that it's quite a shock, especially if you were invested in it.

For me? I followed the EU in the 90s back before it was even called the EU... and that's a key distinction. Before that term was coined, it was basically a bunch of random writers who arbitrarily set the future direction of the SW universe, and then only fit one another's story into continuity as a way of courtesy.

There was no plan. There was no vision. And this was a bad way to start out a universe. They charged ahead in various directions, with no sense of character arc.

So you have things like Dark Empire which was a "what if" scenario where Luke played with the dark side... which then leads into the Jedi Academy series where it's a good guy Luke who wants to revive the legacy of the Jedi. The Jedi Academy writer Kevin J Anderson corresponded with Dark Empire writer Tom Vetch, and incorporated the facts of DE into his story (destroyed Coruscant, Luke with "dark memories"), but the character progression makes no sense, really. It's an incoherent "this happened, than this happened, then this" with no concern for how one flows into another.

And this was the haphazard continuity that was inherited even when the EU was formalized near the TPM release as a thing with a more coherent direction. A thousand monkeys with a thousand typewriters. And this aimless mess set the direction for the facts that followed ROTJ.

It had to be thrown out, to tell a real grown up tale about what Luke, Han, Leia, etc would really go through after ROTJ, etc. It's not just that it's a fresh direction... for the first time, it will be a coherent direction.

I don't know why there should be a continuity or a coherent direction in the first place. Just let the authors do what it is really: 'what if' stories that borrows a universe and characters. The idea of putting everything under the same umbrella of continuity, Marvel style, is silly.

 

[CadetMahoney]

It still bothers me that both Star Wars and sci-fi as a whole is unable to conceive a planet that has more than one biome, even though we live on one. Ice planet, desert planet, forest planet, lava planet, city planet, etc.

They should just have a for-profit prison planet called. . .

 

[chesspieceface]

The problem with the PT Jedi is that they go from 'I can only protect you, I can't fight a war for you' to an army of spec-op commandos in a war that they really have no business in. The Clone Wars series is terrible in this regard, it was a cash grab that totally destroyed what Jedi were portrayed as in the OT. They were once a spiritual warrior-monk society that were 'guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy', and between the prequels and Clone Wars they turned into a militaristic order of disposable superheroes whose heads were stuck up so high their own asses that they couldn't see the forest for the trees.

The PT really destroyed everything good about Star Wars..

That's exactly the point of the prequels. You had Jedi as spiritual and powerful guardians of the peace. They were in the way of Palpatine's plans of galaxy domination. He corrupted the order and made them warriors, leading to their extinction.

It's still coherent with their description in the OT. We just didn't get to see much of *these* Jedi in the PT as it's the story of their downfall.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

Do you guys think we'll live long enough to see the prequels remade into something completely different?

 

[neorej]

Finally got ourselves a good supercut/mashup of all the teasers/trailers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIRoASL90EI

Goosebumps.... goosebumps all over my body

Spoiler

ALL OVER my body

 

[takriel]

77 - 99 was a difference of a generation, this isn't quite as long, though obviously there will always be people who experience SW for the first time.

99-15 is still huge if you think about it.

 

[EatChildren]

Everything tells me he is going to be a mysterious figure throughout the movie and will only show up at the end, having a more prominent role in the sequels.

Yep. This would also be the predictably safe narrative arc that is supposed to stretch across three films. The setup is that something is awakening in the Force, and simply by nature of that happening Luke would have to play an integral role in developing those implications. But the film isn't necessarily focused on the old cast, when it's trying to establish new leads and a new antagonist. Luke being front and centre from the onset quickly kills a lot of potential story development in mysteries surrounding him and the role he'll play in the force's awakening. It makes sense to spend one film setting up that importance, with him mostly out of the picture, introducing the new characters and establishing the state of the galaxy. Then developing his role in the second film.

 

[Guy.brush]

To me, nothing better sums up the laziness of how the Jedi were portrayed in the PT than the fact that they all wear Tatooine robes for some reason. They were written on autopilot.

The initial concept art for the Jedi uniform in Phantom Menace was not the Tatooine robes, but similar to a samurai or Luke's ROTJ costume.
Somewhere during the production they decided to go for the nostalgia inducing costume, rather than the correct one. Maybe because they wanted more similiarity to "Star Wars" but they could have cut or changed a million other things before that

 

[BocoDragon]

I don't know why there should be a continuity or a coherent direction in the first place. Just let the authors do what it is really: 'what if' stories that borrows a universe and characters. The idea of putting everything under the same umbrella of continuity, Marvel style, is silly.

Sure. But then you'd actually have a coherent vision for each character, because there's no need to incorporate what others had done. If someone wants to write Luke going to the dark side after ROTJ, then write the best version of that story, continuity be damned.

Either you have "what if" stories or you have a "story bible" shared continuity direction. An in-between is the issue, where there is continuity, but no shared vision for when it's all going. That creates a bad overall story.

The initial concept art for the Jedi uniform in Phantom Menace was not the Tatooine robes, but similar to a samurai or Luke's ROTJ costume.
Somewhere during the production they decided to go for the nostalgia inducing costume, rather than the correct one. Maybe because they wanted more similiarity to "Star Wars" but they could have cut or changed a million other things before that

That looks so much more like my ideal. I thought the Jedi were going to be more unique than I could have possibly imagined. Some new vision of science fiction that only enriched what we knew of them in the OT.

Instead they were all "Tatooine robe" Ben Kenobi clones...

 

[heringer]

Yep. This would also be the predictably safe narrative arc that is supposed to stretch across three films. The setup is that something is awakening in the Force, and simply by nature of that happening Luke would have to play an integral role in developing those implications. But the film isn't necessarily focused on the old cast, when it's trying to establish new leads and a new antagonist. Luke being front and centre from the onset quickly kills a lot of potential story development in mysteries surrounding him and the role he'll play in the force's awakening. It makes sense to spend one film setting up that importance, with him mostly out of the picture, introducing the new characters and establishing the state of the galaxy. Then developing his role in the second film.

It kills me that we'll only see some Luke action in 2017, but it's definitely necessary.

Back when the movies were announced I asked myself "how are they going to set up the new leads with the old leads in the way?". Well, clearly the old cast will take a back seat, with only Han getting a decent amount of screen time as the bridge character. It's for the best. It hurts the nostalgic, fan service craving kid inside me, though.

 

[Number_6]

It was already too late when old Force ghost Anakin was wearing them at the end of ROTJ.

So Ben Kenobi was "hiding" on Tattooine wearing the uniform of a Jedi? ........riiiiight.

Though, there was a period in pre-production for the PT where they were going ahead with Luke's black ROTJ suit and hood as the uniform of the Jedi. I would have MUCH preferred that. It would have also re-contextualized Luke's appearance in ROTJ as a daring and audacious act, showing up in the uniform of the suppressed organization.

Anakin's robes at the end of ROTJ weren't Jedi robes. They were Tatooine robes! I mean, Luke, his uncle, and presumably his father were from Tatooine. So it was not too late, it's the prequels that fucked it up.

 

[Cheebo]

77 - 99 was a difference of a generation, this isn't quite as long, though obviously there will always be people who experience SW for the first time.

The gap was 83-99. This time it is 05-15. 15 years vs 10 years.

Not that huge of a difference.

 

[heringer]

Anakin's robes at the end of ROTJ weren't Jedi robes. They were Tatooine robes! I mean, Luke, his uncle, and presumably his father were from Tatooine. So it was not too late, it's the prequels that fucked it up.

To be fair, Yoda was also using one of those robes in the OT.

 

[Skunkers]

I can understand that it's quite a shock, especially if you were invested in it.

For me? I followed the EU in the 90s back before it was even called the EU... and that's a key distinction. Before that term was coined, it was basically a bunch of random writers who arbitrarily set the future direction of the SW universe, and then only fit one another's story into continuity as a way of courtesy.

There was no plan. There was no vision. And this was a bad way to start out a universe. They charged ahead in various directions, with no sense of character arc.

So you have things like Dark Empire which was a "what if" scenario where Luke played with the dark side... which then leads into the Jedi Academy series where it's a good guy Luke who wants to revive the legacy of the Jedi. The Jedi Academy writer Kevin J Anderson corresponded with Dark Empire writer Tom Vetch, and incorporated the facts of DE into his story (destroyed Coruscant, Luke with "dark memories"), but the character progression makes no sense, really. It's an incoherent "this happened, than this happened, then this" with no concern for how one flows into another.

And this was the haphazard continuity that was inherited even when the EU was formalized near the TPM release as a thing with a more coherent direction. A thousand monkeys with a thousand typewriters. And this aimless mess set the direction for the facts that followed ROTJ.

It had to be thrown out, to tell a real grown up tale about what Luke, Han, Leia, etc would really go through after ROTJ, etc. It's not just that it's a fresh direction... for the first time, it will be a coherent direction.

I've been reading since probably around '95, before the formal EU as well. I should specify that I mainly just read novels, not the comics or young adult stuff. Ironically, despite your reservations about the pre-formal EU, I find most of the best work in the EU was from the Bantam-era, before they had a "coherent direction". Kevin J Anderson was a weak link in that era, and his books always felt particularly poorly researched. But in a way, I disagree that it was totally incoherent since story arcs in that era were typically self-contained and closer to film/trilogy length, with years in between them, rather than the 10-book decade long story arcs that make up the later series.

Don't get me wrong, there was a lot of shit in the EU, and I really won't particularly miss most of it. I'm happy with a new direction, assuming it doesnt suck. It was just shocking, because I can't ever remember such a huge amount of content being completely thrown out before. The closest thing I can think of is the comic book DC Crisis events, but those typically retcon things within canon. Likewise this new Marvel thing coming up is I guess a hard reset, which is different from what they are doing here.

 

[munchie64]

The gap was 83-99. This time it is 05-15. 15 years vs 10 years.

Not that huge of a difference.

But that's 16 years!

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

To me, nothing better sums up the laziness of how the Jedi were portrayed in the PT than the fact that they all wear Tatooine robes for some reason. They were written on autopilot.

On a similar note, having Yoda speak backwards 100% of the time made no sense. The original trilogy shows pretty clearly that Yoda is capable of using proper grammar. The scrambled grammar was just part of his quirky hermit persona and his unique approach to training. Broken sentences during big fights and when talking with other Jedi Masters just made him seem like he had some sort of disorder.

 

[Cheebo]

I've been reading since probably around '95, before the formal EU as well. I should specify that I mainly just read novels, not the comics or young adult stuff. Ironically, despite your reservations about the pre-formal EU, I find most of the best work in the EU was from the Bantam-era, before they had a "coherent direction". Kevin J Anderson was a weak link in that era, and his books always felt particularly poorly researched. But in a way, I disagree that it was totally incoherent since story arcs in that era were typically self-contained and closer to film/trilogy length, with years in between them, rather than the 10-book decade long story arcs that make up the later series.

Don't get me wrong, there was a lot of shit in the EU, and I really won't particularly miss most of it. I'm happy with a new direction, assuming it doesnt suck. It was just shocking, because I can't ever remember such a huge amount of content being completely thrown out before. The closest thing I can think of is the comic book DC Crisis events, but those typically retcon things within canon. Likewise this new Marvel thing coming up is I guess a hard reset, which is different from what they are doing here.

I don't think that is comparable. That is comic book to comic book. We are talking movies/tv vs books/comics here.

Nobody really read the EU books. It appealed to a very very very minor niche audience of the overall viewership and fandom of the franchise.

 

[hooijdonk17]

Anakin's robes at the end of ROTJ weren't Jedi robes. They were Tatooine robes! I mean, Luke, his uncle, and presumably his father were from Tatooine. So it was not too late, it's the prequels that fucked it up.

They just went with the space wizard archetype rather than the space samurai archetype. Truth be told, I think both suck and would suck.

PT Jedi are an order where everyone talks and acts like tools in a military hierarchy, doing what they are told and going about doing government business like bureaucrats. That idiocy made some form of uniform semi-mandatory. They should never have shoehorned the Jedi into such a strict mold.

On a sidenote, the only works in the Expanded Universe that I would actually qualify as worth reading were Zahn's trilogy and the early Rogue Squadron books.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

 

[heringer]

On a similar note, having Yoda speak backwards 100% of the time made no sense. The original trilogy shows pretty clearly that Yoda is capable of using proper grammar. The scrambled grammar was just part of his quirky hermit persona and his unique approach to training. Broken sentences during big fights and when talking with other Jedi Masters just made him seem like he had some sort of disorder.

I don't think it was supposed to be part of his persona. When he starts to speak with Ben about how Luke is not ready he immediately drops the act but continues to speak backwards.

 

[Number_6]

To be fair, Yoda was also using one of those robes in the OT.

Living in a swamp, a comfortable hermit. I mean seriously now, is it Jedi robes or desert robes, that's it? Fan speculation is way too rigid.

 

[Liamario]

This would have been awesome if for no other reason than Obi-wan and Anikan's relationship would already have been established.

 

[Messypandas]

Played by Rutger Hauer

 

[heringer]

Living in a swamp, a comfortable hermit. I mean seriously now, is it Jedi robes or desert robes, that's it? Fan speculation is way too rigid.

Oh, I agree it's lazy. I just don't think it's a "those are Tatooine clothes" kind of thing.

 

[Tesseract]

is it too late for space balls 2?

 

[Skunkers]

I don't think that is comparable. That is comic book to comic book. We are talking movies/tv vs books/comics here.

Nobody really read the EU books. It appealed to a very very very minor niche audience of the overall viewership and fandom of the franchise.

It's comparable in terms of what I was talking about, which was canon.

And several of the EU books made NYT Bestseller lists; they did quite well. I believe Lucasfilm are even on record as saying the huge interest/demand in the early EU stuff even so many years after the OT is what kicked off the release of the Special Editions and prequels.

 

[PsihoPerihelion]

Ren squad lose. Kylo Ren who is beaten managed to escape to the forest where Finn lies in wait for him. The fight commence and Finn barely bested him.

Before Finn managed to interrogate him, Ren says "The Mandalorians are coming!!" and commit harakiri using the hilt of his lightsaber.

Such an underrated post.

 

[VistraNorrez]

So we've entered the fan speculation area where literally no creator of any art can live up to it. Everyone has preferences, but basing your expectations on those will make you disappointed. This is the problem with franchises and sequels. People start making up their own stories and when a sequel comes along, that cannot possibly follow everyone's wants and desires, we get criticism that isn't based in any kind of reality. And then any sort of concept art gets praised because it can be made to be the greatest thing ever in anyone's mind. There will be infinite Star Wars movies, be prepared to not like a lot of them.

 

[Liamario]

Played by Rutger Hauer

I'd love to see that, but I don't know if he'd be a good fit. Would definitely be very interesting. He has a certain charisma to him.

 

[Cheebo]

It's comparable in terms of what I was talking about, which was canon.

And several of the EU books made NYT Bestseller lists; they did quite well. I believe Lucasfilm are even on record as saying the huge interest/demand in the early EU stuff even so many years after the OT is what kicked off the release of the Special Editions and prequels.

They were never considered canon on the same level as the films though. Lucasfilm prior to the decision in 2014 had canon levels remember. We had G level canon which was the films and the clone wars. T level canon which was the older tv material such as the Ewok movies and the droids cartoon. And third was c level canon of the books and comics.

The EU was never treated a equal canon as the main media.

 

[heringer]

So we've entered the fan speculation area where literally no creator of any art can live up to it. Everyone has preferences, but basing your expectations on those will make you disappointed. This is the problem with franchises and sequels. People start making up their own stories and when a sequel comes along, that cannot possibly follow everyone's wants and desires, we get criticism that isn't based in any kind of reality. And then any sort of concept art gets praised because it can be made to be the greatest thing ever in anyone's mind. There will be infinite Star Wars movies, be prepared to not like a lot of them.

Some of my friends are incredibly nervous and afraid of being disappointed with the movie.

I just set my expectations low and try not to get too caugh up with the hype. For instance, I totally expect to only see Luke at the end. This will allow me to enjoy what's happening on screen without worrying about when he is going to show up.

 

[Skunkers]

They were never considered canon on the same level as the films though. Lucasfilm prior to the decision in 2014 had canon levels remember. We had G level canon which was the films and the clone wars. T level canon which was the older tv material such as the Ewok movies and the droids cartoon. And third was c level canon of the books and comics.

The EU was never treated a equal canon as the main media.

Actually, yes it was. Lucas himself was occasionally consulted by authors during the early EU, and Lucasfilm had approval on all of it; and reportedly had authors change quite a lot. There was stuff that was known to be off limits, like the origin of Han's Corellian Bloodstripes, presumably because George thought he might cover young Han if he ever did the prequels. It turned out he didn't. What you're talking about didn't really come up until Episode 1 came out and the films started infringing on EU canon (particularly stuff like Boba Fett's origin). And for the longest time the rule was, "if there's a conflict, the movies win". The GTC canon thing came waaaaaaay later.

 

[Forkball]

The gap from Return of the Jedi to The Phantom Menace is as long as the gap from The Phantom Menace to The Force Awakens.

DON'T SCREW IT UP

 

[DerangedHermit]

Thisa supercut is better, imo : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo7_qW4pPrc

 

[Guy.brush]

Thisa supercut is better, imo : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo7_qW4pPrc

Mui mui me no watchin dis gonna be messi

 

[hooijdonk17]

Thisa supercut is better, imo : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo7_qW4pPrc

I was going to do this on the weekend!

 

[evil ways]

The Jedi of the PT were uncaring, unfeeling dickheads

Uncaring and unfeeling seems to be the general vibe and theme of the prequels.

 

[TheDinoman]

The gap from Return of the Jedi to The Phantom Menace is as long as the gap from The Phantom Menace to The Force Awakens.

DON'T SCREW IT UP

Technically there were the other two prequels that came out inbetween Jedi and Phantom Menace. Really, it's only been a little over 10 years since the last SW movie, that being ROTS.

 

[hooijdonk17]

Technically there were the other two prequels that came out inbetween Jedi and Phantom Menace. Really, it's only been a little over 10 years since the last SW movie, that being ROTS.

That's technically true. But it's more or less the first star wars movie in three decades.

 

[NekoFever]

Naboo?

That's the closest we've seen to an actual habitable planet in Star Wars, yeah. Maybe Alderaan based on the view from space in ANH and the short scene at the end of ROTS.

On a similar note, having Yoda speak backwards 100% of the time made no sense. The original trilogy shows pretty clearly that Yoda is capable of using proper grammar. The scrambled grammar was just part of his quirky hermit persona and his unique approach to training. Broken sentences during big fights and when talking with other Jedi Masters just made him seem like he had some sort of disorder.

"Around the survivors a perimeter create" was where it lost me.

PT Yoda would have come out with "Do or not do, no try there is" or some crap.

 

[Secret Fawful]

Do you remember the context? Because that's a weird example to use.

Yeah, that's the scene where Indy found out he wouldn't have to marry Willie.

 

[George Oscar Bluth II]

On a similar note, having Yoda speak backwards 100% of the time made no sense. The original trilogy shows pretty clearly that Yoda is capable of using proper grammar. The scrambled grammar was just part of his quirky hermit persona and his unique approach to training. Broken sentences during big fights and when talking with other Jedi Masters just made him seem like he had some sort of disorder.

I agree. He did it in the OT, but sparingly. In the prequels everything just went over the top.

Yeah, that's the scene where Indy found out he wouldn't have to marry Willie.

Hahahaha

 

[ViewtifulJC]

So we've entered the fan speculation area where literally no creator of any art can live up to it. Everyone has preferences, but basing your expectations on those will make you disappointed. This is the problem with franchises and sequels. People start making up their own stories and when a sequel comes along, that cannot possibly follow everyone's wants and desires, we get criticism that isn't based in any kind of reality. And then any sort of concept art gets praised because it can be made to be the greatest thing ever in anyone's mind. There will be infinite Star Wars movies, be prepared to not like a lot of them.

This is actually a big reason why I'm glad I read the leaked synopsis/summary of the movie. Now I know pretty much the entire shape of the movie, an idea of the character arcs and motivations, the setpieces, the victories and setbacks, the dark secrets, etc. Its actually made me MORE excited to see the actual thing now that I have a concrete idea of what the hell this movie actually is. And I can stop dreaming about some movie in my head that doesn't exist, and being disappointed when it doesn't show up.

 

[hooijdonk17]

This is actually a big reason why I'm glad I read the leaked synopsis/summary of the movie. Now I know pretty much the entire shape of the movie, an idea of the character arcs and motivations, the setpieces, the victories and setbacks, the dark secrets, etc. Its actually made me MORE excited to see the actual thing now that I have a concrete idea of what the hell this movie actually is. And I can stop dreaming about some movie in my head that doesn't exist, and being disappointed when it doesn't show up.

You never know. I actually bought and read the hardcover novelization of Phantom Menace before seeing the movie (Terry Brooks, was it?) and somehow the movie managed to disappoint worse than that piece of shit.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Well, the compiled synopsis actually sounds really cool to me. It has a lot of the strengths of the OT, but I'm sure will be done in a modern way. There's a propulsive quest structure to it, with a lot of incident and action. There are reletable, human protagonists with clear character arcs and motivations over the course of the movie. There are dark moments, but contrary to what the trailers shown, there's also a lot of opportunity for humor, both in witty remarks and visual gags. There's a sense of wonder and a sense of history. The antagonists are legitimately intimidating, and Phasma is like Boba Fett if he, ya know, actually did something besides look cool in all 3 acts of the movie. There's a fight scene with those dudes from The Raid, ROTJ-esque giant space battles, places where the characters just chill with a bunch of aliens, climatic lightsaber duels. There are big damn hero last second rescues, there are moments that are gonna shock the audience, there are moments of real human bonding and empathy.

I think its gonna be really dope, with Abrams modern direction and facility with actors, Mindel's gorgeous cinematography, Kasdan making sure the characters sound like actual humans, John Williams doing his GOAT thing, all the amazing costume/production design, etc. Should be really good, tbh.

 

[bishopcruz]

The problem with the PT Jedi is that they go from 'I can only protect you, I can't fight a war for you' to an army of spec-op commandos in a war that they really have no business in. The Clone Wars series is terrible in this regard, it was a cash grab that totally destroyed what Jedi were portrayed as in the OT. They were once a spiritual warrior-monk society that were 'guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy', and between the prequels and Clone Wars they turned into a militaristic order of disposable superheroes whose heads were stuck up so high their own asses that they couldn't see the forest for the trees.

The PT really destroyed everything good about Star Wars..

Actually I think the Clone Wars was what finally delivered on the Prequel era. The whole point of the Clone Wars series to me is the gradual fall of the Jedi because they are doing things that they were not meant to be doing. They were pawns of the Republic/Palpatine, and by surrounding themselves in violence and death they lost themselves. They lost a lot of Knights, a lot of Masters, even before episode 3 came around. Clone Wars doesn't make Episode 3 a good movie, nothing can do that, but it DOES make the plot points of that movie actually make sense. Anakin's fall is no longer out of nowhere, and Order 66 is far more horrific post CW than it was in the movie alone.

 

[brandonh83]

The problem with the PT Jedi is that they go from 'I can only protect you, I can't fight a war for you' to an army of spec-op commandos in a war that they really have no business in. The Clone Wars series is terrible in this regard, it was a cash grab that totally destroyed what Jedi were portrayed as in the OT. They were once a spiritual warrior-monk society that were 'guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy', and between the prequels and Clone Wars they turned into a militaristic order of disposable superheroes whose heads were stuck up so high their own asses that they couldn't see the forest for the trees.

The PT really destroyed everything good about Star Wars..

They were monk-like and their ego got them involved in a huge ass war and they had to adapt. Then they were all mostly wiped out. After this the remaining ones were re-trained by Qui-Gon between trilogies, and there's no war they're involved in, so... back to monk-like. There's no discrepancy.

 

[JB1981]

Has anyone mentioned the runtime? Fandango is showing 2hrs 16min. Longer than I thought after Kasdan's comments that the film would be shorter than most modern blockbusters .