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Star Wars: The Force Awakens Final Trailer

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smorgasbird said:
Has anyone read this theory? http://www.starwarsringtheory.com/

Even if you don't end up agreeing with it, it's a very interesting read. It may explain why the prequels have so many obvious mistakes; they were already constrained by having to set up the initial state for the OT, and Lucas may have added artificial constraints in order for things to "rhyme" and thus spent too much time on the meta aspects of the movies.
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Interesting read, but it's far easier to call them bad movies and move along. Personally one always believed the general themes, concept, and even general narrative behind the prequels work well with the OT, but the movies themselves suffered from other issues such as poor acting, poor CGI, and various elements being blown to far that they become cringe worthy (C3P0 and R2D2 were good levels of comic relief, Jar Jar was way too much).
 
pompidu said:
Pretty much.

Episode 1,2,3 are piles of shit. Everything about them are awful, no theory crafting needed. They are shit, best to forget these movies even existed.
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Sections of the die hard fanbase theorising that George Lucas deliberately made a bulk of the Jedi in the PT stiff, pompous, boring, unlikeable and stupid as deliberate character flaws which assisted in the being blind to their impeding downfall were godawful to hear.

Has it been disclosed what Find or Reys midicholorian count is yet? WE NEED CLOSURE ON THIS ISSUE.

Plz God no
 
liquidtmd said:
Sections of the die hard fanbase theorising that George Lucas deliberately made a bulk of the Jedi in the PT stiff, pompous, boring, unlikeable and stupid as deliberate character flaws which assisted in the being blind to their impeding downfall were godawful to hear.
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Yes well, it does make sense. If you don't like it fine, but it's a valid opinion. If the Jedi were omg amazeballs with no flaws and super cool people I doubt greatly that they could've been toppled. They would have seen Palpatine's manipulation miles away and would've did something about it, and Anakin would have never become a Sith.

Hell I'm not even saying the execution was on-point. It could have been handled better. But it is a valid thought.
 
brandonh83 said:
Yes well, it does make sense. If you don't like it fine, but it's a valid opinion. If the Jedi were omg amazeballs with no flaws and super cool people I doubt greatly that they could've been toppled. They would have seen Palpatine's manipulation miles away and would've did something about it, and Anakin would have never become a Sith.

Hell I'm not even saying the execution was on-point. It could have been handled better. But it is a valid thought.
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I get what your saying and do agree to an extent...but I don't believe George was going for this at all, from writing to direction, and it's the fanbase that have since reconned this explanation into fitting a narrative to justify them being unlikeable assholes.

From a movie audience point of view We shouldn't have to watch boring characters be stiff and unlikeable to convey that they were flawed individuals. It wasn't even the writing and characters that were boring and stiff, the camerawork and direction was equally static - which I've even heard was 'all part of the plan too'. At that point, nope nope nope.
 
heringer said:
That's really interesting. I can totally see GL obsessed into this meta aspect of the movies.

Sadly, this doesn't change the fact that 3 stanzas of his poem just aren't very good. At the end of the day, people don't care if a poem is perfectly structured, they care about the verses.

It does make the whole more interesting, though.
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Altazor said:
reading through it, I get the feeling that some people may go to such lengths to justify the current state of the prequels that end up creating convoluted narratives in their heads just to make sense of them and tell themselves "they have to have some deeper meaning, it just can't be this simple". It's like when some Tool fans were utterly convinced 10,000 Days was a decoy album that hid clues about the real followup to Lateralus that was coming later.

These seeming meta-structures, meta-narratives, apparent symbolic layers of stuff don't make the movies great. It probably makes them more interesting, even more thoughtful than apparent... but still doesn't make them good movies, IMHO.

Then again, the prequels/Lucas don't deserve a lot of the shit they actually get. They're disappointing and bad movies, but I don't think they're this sort of gargantuan, life-ruining black void some people make them out to be.
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Seventy_X_Seven said:
Interesting read, but it's far easier to call them bad movies and move along. Personally one always believed the general themes, concept, and even general narrative behind the prequels work well with the OT, but the movies themselves suffered from other issues such as poor acting, poor CGI, and various elements being blown to far that they become cringe worthy (C3P0 and R2D2 were good levels of comic relief, Jar Jar was way too much).
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I don't like the prequels either, but I find that the points in the article/website, combined with Lucas' quotes, may explain why he neglected so many obvious things. I don't view this as a justification, but more of a possible answer to "wtf was George Lucas thinking?"

The article sheds some light on George Lucas' ramblings about rhyming, poetry and stanzas and there's a lot of structural intricacy that appears deliberate. It's actually kind of satisfying to have a clue about what he was talking about.

So, yes, the prequels are not secretly good because of this. But I at least get what Lucas may have been going for. I think the combined constraints of having to set up the OT's initial state + achieving the deliberate structure described in the article damaged the prequels. I also think George Lucas has a lot of interesting ideas and is by no means incompetent, despite his botching of the prequels.
 
smorgasbird said:
I don't like the prequels either, but I find that the points in the article/website, combined with Lucas' quotes, may explain why he neglected so many obvious things. I don't view this as a justification, but more of a possible answer to "wtf was George Lucas thinking?"

The article sheds some light on George Lucas' ramblings about rhyming, poetry and stanzas and there's a lot of structural intricacy that appears deliberate. It's actually kind of satisfying to have a clue about what he was talking about.

So, yes, the prequels are not secretly good because of this.
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oh yes, no doubt. It's (so far, I haven't finished it yet) a well written essay with some good points and it offers a different point of view to what is usually the consensus. But it still doesn't make TPM or AOTC particularly good ;)
 
smorgasbird said:
The article sheds some light on George Lucas' ramblings about rhyming, poetry and stanzas and there's a lot of structural intricacy that appears deliberate. It's actually kind of satisfying to have a clue about what he was talking about.
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For as fun and amusing to rag on that overplayed clip of him saying 'Its like poetry' is, symmetry like this is a classical storytelling technique and has worked through the history of literature.
 
liquidtmd said:
For as fun and amusing to rag on that overplayed clip of him saying 'Its like poetry' is, symmetry like this is a classical storytelling technique and has worked through the history of literature.
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Yeah, I just didn't expect any finesse of that sort would be found in the prequels. I like the concept of symmetry, it's just a shame he "may have gone too far in some areas" (in his own hilarious words) rather than... paying enough attention to things that make the movies good.
 
liquidtmd said:
I get what your saying and do agree to an extent...but I don't believe George was going for this at all, from writing to direction, and it's the fanbase that have since reconned this explanation into fitting a narrative to justify them being unlikeable assholes.
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I mean, I do think that's at least partially the intention... it even ends with Yoda basically telling Kenobi that they're going away in exile to learn from Qui-Gon about the true ways of the Force or whatever which is why they're more like Qui-Gon in the OT, more connected to the living Force and in a much more spiritual fashion. So I don't think for a second that this was accidental as it all lines up in a logical and contextual way.

As far as intentionally writing them as boring and robotic, the movies actually focus on Anakin and Kenobi and Kenobi is pretty cool and likeable while Anakin is more loose and rebellious by wanting to be with Padme and see his mom behind their backs. So while the Jedi are as you describe, the development and focus goes to more open and interesting characters than the rest of the Jedi.
 
Lynd7 said:
Watching the video now. Its pretty good so far, its fun to think of the possibilities.

I had a thought.
If Kylo is Han and Leia's kid, maybe Luke had refused to train him when he was younger. Which has now led him to seek out info about the force by himself etc.
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I think you're right about who is parents are. I think Kylo Ren is not his real name. We already know the Ren part comes from the Knights of Ren. I think Kylo is a sort of portmanteau of sKYwalker and soLO. While Leia is legally Organa (or Solo by this point), she is by birth, a Skywalker.
 
EdReedFan20 said:
I think you're right about who is parents are. I think Kylo Ren is not his real name. We already know the Ren part comes from the Knights of Ren. I think Kylo is a sort of portmanteau of sKYwalker and soLO. While Leia is legally Organa (or Solo by this point), she is by birth, a Skywalker.
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Wow, never took the abbreviation thing to heart, but I think you're right.

My guess is actually (speculation)
Kylo is definitely a Solo, but I think we'll be surprised and Rei is Luke's kid. Her or Finn or both.
 
Mistle said:
kind of wish i didn't watch that, closed it about half way once i released their speculation was very well informed. they were making some really good points. of course they could be wrong, but they make a lot of sense and if any of it turns out to be true i would have rathered not having it already lingering in my mind.
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Glad I read this post before watching the video. It's probably not a big deal either way, but with the film being so close anyway it doesn't hurt to be careful.
 
bengraven said:
Wow, never took the abbreviation thing to heart, but I think you're right.

My guess is actually (speculation)
Kylo is definitely a Solo, but I think we'll be surprised and Rei is Luke's kid. Her or Finn or both.
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I think
Rey is also a child of Han and Leia. I mean, why else would Daisy be sitting Harrison and Carrie in that cast reveal photo? Yeah, it could be textbook J.J. Abrams trickery. Also, the movie poster might be hinting at her and Kylo being connected by how her staff is perfectly in line with his light saber. I know the EU was thrown out, but maybe they really compelled with the concept of Solo twins and the notion that the son goes bad.
 
Hey, remember when I said a couple days ago that it's only a matter of time until someone mashes up the Star Trek trailers with the Force Awakens trailer to highlight the visual language Abrams is using in all three of those films?

Zenlike Productions says hey.
 
Scrooge McDuck said:
Honestly, I don't want Rey to be the daughter of any of the original trilogy's heroes because that would mean they are unsuccessful parents.
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Not necessarily.

Who knows what events may have happened between Jedi and VII that may have precipitated Rey being separated from her parent(s).

Her being isolated on Jakku doesn't mean that her parents were deadbeats
 
Grover Cleveland said:
Not necessarily.

Who knows what events may have happened between Jedi and VII that may have precipitated Rey being separated from her parent(s).

Her being isolated on Jakku doesn't mean that her parents were deadbeats
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My theory is
it could mean that Luke doesn't know he has a daughter (the same way Vader didn't know he had a son--maybe he had a SO, got freaked out over passing his Jedi genes on, got weird and bailed) and she is being tucked away, hoping her force powers remain dormant...until the force awakens in her (when she reacts to someone close to her dying) and Luke detects her.
 
Bobby Roberts said:
Hey, remember when I said a couple days ago that it's only a matter of time until someone mashes up the Star Trek trailers with the Force Awakens trailer to highlight the visual language Abrams is using in all three of those films?

Zenlike Productions says hey.
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Good editing. I highly enjoyed that.
 
Bobby Roberts said:
Hey, remember when I said a couple days ago that it's only a matter of time until someone mashes up the Star Trek trailers with the Force Awakens trailer to highlight the visual language Abrams is using in all three of those films?

Zenlike Productions says hey.
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Dead on in many few spots, not just the obvious hyperspace jump matchup. And it raises my hopes seeing that The Force Awakens comes out as the "winner" in most of the comparisons shown (in my opinion).
 
Ok here's actually a new theory, and one that isn't just silly.

We have always assumed that Rey's reaction here is to Han telling them that the Force is real. What if it's not? We do not necesserily know that the two scenes are in order or directly related - no other two scenes in the trailer follow each other in this manner.

Bear with me for a moment.

What if Finn is actually not a stormtrooper, but is broken out of the Star Destroyer in the disguise of a Storm Trooper by Poe Dameron? What if Poe gets captured but Finn steals a TIE and crash lands on Jakku, with the whole First Order behind him? What if he is helped by Rey, who lives as a scavenger on Jakku BY CHOICE, after rejecting a family heritage that has led another family member to the Dark Side? What if Rey actually knows that the Jedi are real because her parents are Leia and Han, and agrees to help Finn find the Resistance because he's in posession of the Death Star III plans? What if Rey actually takes Finn to her father, Han Solo, who incidentally broke up with Leia due to a family crisis as a result of the fate of their other child, still keeps the fastest hunk of junk in the galaxy hidden away somewhere, so that they can escape the First Order blockade? What if Kylo Ren is actually the other Organa Solo child, one that Luke trained and lost to the Dark Side? What if Luke is actually not around because Han and Leia hate him for this?
 
Freewheelin' said:
Fifty pages ago you were absolutely sure of the plot of this film

Incredible turnaround
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Pretty much - some seem to think they know the entire plot because 'lol its leaked and it's out there'. Then those same people change their tune when someone throws up a potentially new context for a scene. In the same thread.
 
liquidtmd said:
Pretty much - some seem to think they know the entire plot because 'lol its leaked and it's out there'. Then those same people change their tune when someone throws up a potentially new context for a scene. In the same thread.
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I mean those of us that actually read the leaked stuff called him out 50 pages ago. He's been talking shit the whole thread trying to "spoil" the film on people.
 
TangoAlphaLima said:
I hope they're wrong about a lot of things, because there are just too many OT tropes if true. But I suspect that maybe JJ is trying to give the illusions of OT tropes as misdirection.
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I only watched about a third of the video, but yeah, I so hope that
they're wrong about there being a camouflaged 3rd Death Star. It sounds so silly to me. I also think they're right about Kylo Ren being Han and Leia's son, and Rey being Luke's daughter. I don't want it to be true because it's too convenient and you just know the reveal will feel like a parody of Vader's "I am your father", but I've had this feeling that's what it is, and RLM is just validating my fear.
I haven't watched the rest, so don't talk about their other theories with me please :p.
 
Kilrogg said:
I only watched about a third of the video, but yeah, I so hope that
they're wrong about there being a camouflaged 3rd Death Star. It sounds so silly to me. I also think they're right about Kylo Ren being Han and Leia's son, and Rey being Luke's daughter. I don't want it to be true because it's too convenient and you just know the reveal will feel like a parody of Vader's "I am your father", but I've had this feeling that's what it is, and RLM is just validating my fear.
I haven't watched the rest, so don't talk about their other theories with me please :p.
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The three of them without official last names means we're going to get at least three "am your father" moments in the films, almost guaranteed.
 
Dis
spoiler
minefield, can one of you make a spoiler/speculation thread that you can dump all your leaked/speculation discussion into.
 
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