Maybe it's old or on the fritz
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Star Wars The Force Awakens Trailer
- Thread starter SCULLIBUNDO
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Maybe it's old or on the fritz
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
His Star Trek movies were a reboot, this is a sequel.
The naivety thing is funny. "Look at those hippy mar'fuckers with their glow sticks, lol". Red certainly looks more serious.
The colour and style is a way for the sith to impose intimidation, which is one of their weapons.
Think about it, all black clothing, masks, body modifications, red sabres, its all about intimidation. Which is why the Claymore-style light-sabre from the trailer made a bit of sense
Think about it, all black clothing, masks, body modifications, red sabres, its all about intimidation. Which is why the Claymore-style light-sabre from the trailer made a bit of sense
DiipuSurotu
Banned
With Jedi Luke wearing black in ROTJ, I'd love to see a Sith wearing all white or silver clothes.
MollyWhomp
Neo Member
I'm thinking it's moreso that there aren't any Sith "teachers" (or Jedi for that matter), so no one outside of Luke knows how to make a proper lightsaber anymore. This new Sith has probably been cobbling together Sith artifacts and lore. This has potentially led him to a partial lightsaber "recipe" which has resulted in a partially unstable blade.
I like this theory.
brandonh83
Banned
I still say the biggest problem with the prequels is a combination of Lucas' dialogue and Natalie Portman. Of all the bad acting in the prequels, she is solely responsible for me agreeing with the masses that the acting is mostly bad. I don't mind a lot of the actors in the prequels, but Portman had the duty of portraying Luke and Leia's mother and watching as her husband goes dickhead on everyone. While that's not easy, Natalie didn't even try. I don't know what it was, it may have been that she didn't want to be there anymore or whatever, but she signed the contracts and I think regardless of how she felt about the director or the movies, that she was obligated to try her best to make Amidala a good, likable and tragic character.
And I think she is, on paper, but Natalie literally sleptwalked through most scenes and the poignant moment with Anakin breaking and Force choking her is one of the worst acted scenes out there. I will put part of the blame on Lucas because it's weird to me that he was okay with that take, but Natalie obviously could have tried way harder. Every single emotional beat with Portman in these movies were fucking pitiful. There were so many scenes that she could have really helped elevate, and it's where I have to give Hayden some credit. I think he's really good in scenes say at his mom's burial. But then you have fucking Portman just standing behind everyone not giving one shit. Again Lucas probably could have had her do something but actors can step in and make suggestions. She just didn't care. Hayden clearly cared and always seemed genuinely thrilled to be there, and he does put effort into the emotional beats (though the marks weren't always hit on the head).
For me, if a dedicated actress played Padme, I would have liked the prequels even more and I think there are scenes where had the acting from her been great that the story would have actually felt a lot more tragic and heartbreaking (though she clearly tells us that Anakin is breaking her heart). There were so many potentially great moments flat-out ruined by Portman's performance. As I said I don't solely blame her, but she's definitely partially to blame. People complain about Hayden so much, but I have to say that I thought he did good for the most part-- he was just greatly let down by bad writing and directing. Portman never really did good at all on top of being let down by bad writing and directing.
Then she went on to win a fucking Oscar.
And I think she is, on paper, but Natalie literally sleptwalked through most scenes and the poignant moment with Anakin breaking and Force choking her is one of the worst acted scenes out there. I will put part of the blame on Lucas because it's weird to me that he was okay with that take, but Natalie obviously could have tried way harder. Every single emotional beat with Portman in these movies were fucking pitiful. There were so many scenes that she could have really helped elevate, and it's where I have to give Hayden some credit. I think he's really good in scenes say at his mom's burial. But then you have fucking Portman just standing behind everyone not giving one shit. Again Lucas probably could have had her do something but actors can step in and make suggestions. She just didn't care. Hayden clearly cared and always seemed genuinely thrilled to be there, and he does put effort into the emotional beats (though the marks weren't always hit on the head).
For me, if a dedicated actress played Padme, I would have liked the prequels even more and I think there are scenes where had the acting from her been great that the story would have actually felt a lot more tragic and heartbreaking (though she clearly tells us that Anakin is breaking her heart). There were so many potentially great moments flat-out ruined by Portman's performance. As I said I don't solely blame her, but she's definitely partially to blame. People complain about Hayden so much, but I have to say that I thought he did good for the most part-- he was just greatly let down by bad writing and directing. Portman never really did good at all on top of being let down by bad writing and directing.
Then she went on to win a fucking Oscar.
brandonh83
Banned
She is and that's what I'm saying. She's super capable (obviously) and no doubt there's also problems with the writing and Lucas' direction. My problems with her scenes have nothing to do with her reacting to special effects.
The fuck? Nowhere in that post did I say that Portman is a terrible actress. I said that she's terrible in the prequels.
Portman did what she could with the role and direction she was given. You can't really hold her accountable when she was asked to play the part of a young woman whose love interest is a young boy in the first movie, and what became a half baked romance with objectively terrible dialog in the following films. There's no saving that birthing scene no matter the actress. The prequels are full of award winning actors giving terrible performances.
It's more aggressive than we've ever seen anyone using a lightsaber, and that makes it feel interesting to me. It makes it feel like a physical and emotional thing when he pulls it out, instead of just holding the handle up and the blade extending. It's purposeful, like shit is about to go down.
brandonh83
Banned
I have to disagree. A lot of problems I have are specifically scenes with her acting with other actors. Not special effects or even the damn screenplay. And I noted that the writing and Lucas' direction are also obvious factors. I'm merely pointing out that she wasn't trying. As in giving no effort, herself, as a performer.
The scene in Episode II for example after Anakin's nightmare, she just walks out to the balcony and listens to Anakin with a "I don't care" face when he's breaking down and obviously troubled, and she does this often.
I didn't mean the green-screen thing, I meant react to the other performances and writing she was working with.
I thought you meant she was shit too. The last line to me read like 'I can't believe she won an Oscar', not 'She won an Oscar, so she's obviously actually good'.
Lucas doomed 'em all in the prequel Trilogy.
brandonh83
Banned
Oh hell no. I like Natalie a lot. She was amazing in Black Swan and deserved that shit. I'm not bashing her as an actress, just greatly criticizing her work or lack thereof in the prequels. And again I'm not saying that was entirely her fault, but nonetheless there are plenty of scenes where she is acting off other actors and they're not even necessarily badly written (the aforementioned balcony scene was fine on page, for example, and Hayden was totally okay in that scene) she's just not putting anything at all into it.
The part was garbage through and through. The entire basis for her character is saying things that she feels instead of being able to demonstrate it through action or earning it through meaningful story progression. Much of the prequels are that in fact. We don't see Obiwan and Anakin become friends, we are told they are friends. We don't see Padme and Anakin fall in love, they just tell us they are in love.
How is anyone supposed to sell this scene?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GrFmu-C1GI
brandonh83
Banned
I can agree with that to an extent... I just feel, simply, that she wasn't even trying. From my observation it does go beyond the director and what's on the page. Perhaps those things led to why she doesn't put forth any effort, but again it was her obligation to do her best and she didn't. The fact that she's actually a great actress only solidifies my point.
Again, for instance when Anakin chokes her... that's not the script. She's reacting to being strangled, even if it's not technically physically. It should have been a lot more visceral, and I will blame Lucas for that partially but her performance there is so terrible that it feels like she's deliberately trying to make it bad.
RobotNinjaHornets
Banned
To be honest, I can kind of imagine Lucas being like "NO, react less you're meant to be royalty GODDAMNIT"
...ok so he may have transitioned into Vince McMahon at the end there but you get the idea
Poodlestrike
Banned
I wouldn't be shocked. With a bad script and a controlling director, there's really not much an actor can do.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
The decisions to place most of the character/emotional throughlines on characters who are not only mandated by the setting and the plot to be emotionally reserved, but are then on top of that emotionally reserved anyway REALLY hamstrung almost all of the actors. That's absolutely Lucas' problem, not so much the actors.
You can only do so much as an actor when your range is artificially limited (for no really good reason) by the story your writer wrote, and the way your director wants you to perform in that story. Since the writer and the director is the same guy, it's really more his fault than it is any of the actors. Granted, it really does seem like half the time the actors are also just phoning it in - but if it became fairly obvious that the work you're turning in is sub-par but your director literally cannot tell how uninvolving his characters are, and is happy with what you're giving him - why rock the boat? It's not going to be recognized or appreciated.
Lucas wanted Anakin, Ben, Yoda, Padme, and even Palpatine to spend most of their time in all three movies moving from "mildly frown" to "mildly smirk, maybe giggle" for almost all of their screentime. That's going to handcuff an actor pretty severely, especially when the material in question isn't weighty enough to call for that kind of drama in the first place.
You can only do so much as an actor when your range is artificially limited (for no really good reason) by the story your writer wrote, and the way your director wants you to perform in that story. Since the writer and the director is the same guy, it's really more his fault than it is any of the actors. Granted, it really does seem like half the time the actors are also just phoning it in - but if it became fairly obvious that the work you're turning in is sub-par but your director literally cannot tell how uninvolving his characters are, and is happy with what you're giving him - why rock the boat? It's not going to be recognized or appreciated.
Lucas wanted Anakin, Ben, Yoda, Padme, and even Palpatine to spend most of their time in all three movies moving from "mildly frown" to "mildly smirk, maybe giggle" for almost all of their screentime. That's going to handcuff an actor pretty severely, especially when the material in question isn't weighty enough to call for that kind of drama in the first place.
Oh God that dialogue.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Didn't Lucas hate Ford's "I know" from ESB? He wanted to keep the original line from the script unlike Ford and Kershner.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
Also didn't help that Portman and Christensen had zero chemistry together. Lucas doesn't really come off as an actor's director along with being a bit of a control freak.
... I actually liked AotC when I first saw it with a friend but I attribute that to the weed we smoked before we went in to watch it, it was hilarious.
... I actually liked AotC when I first saw it with a friend but I attribute that to the weed we smoked before we went in to watch it, it was hilarious.
brandonh83
Banned
Yep, and I tried to explain that it's perhaps not all of Natalie's fault, just pointing out that she literally gave it nothing. Nothing. Even Hayden's performances which were heavily scrutinized still told me that he cared and was trying. To me that's a case of a bad script and director letting down what would have been a better performance. Natalie? Not so much.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
He didn't hate it. He just thought it wouldn't work and that it took the scene out of the moment. He wanted Solo's original line to be kind of a tension-breaker, but still a reminder that shit was serious. He thought Ford/Kershner's solution took it too far into comedy.
He was proven wrong, though, once he saw it in a preview and the crowd reacted perfectly to it.
Christensen had more to do, and since the prequels were ostensibly his story, had more weight placed upon his character. Portman was never really central at any point. Padme was not only let down by the director not giving her leeway to create an actual character, but was let down by the writer not really giving her a character at all.
The best acted scene between her and Christensen is the one where they're not even in the same building, just looking out a window at each other across the city, as music plays underneath them. It works because they don't have to talk, and all the acting/emoting is being done with the camera and the score.
While it's a great moment, it also speaks to how uncomfortable Lucas can be with actors. When he gets to use them as just part of the set, he can get something special out of them. But when they need to be actual PEOPLE - he's not as great at it.
Even beyond the actors chemistry, or lack thereof, the characters shouldn't have fallen in love. Dude's a super creeper and she's like, an adult and stuff. He's showing her his rapeface, and being a sexual predator, creepin' stroking her back in the middle of a conversation. It's fucking horrible to watch. It's like what an alien would make if he'd only learnt about 'romance' from some pedophile documentary.
brandonh83
Banned
I would actually argue that both actors do really well conveying their emotions in that scene, especially Hayden. I was sold. It's one of the few scenes with Natalie that I legitimately like.
phazedplasma
Member
This lightsabre talk is pretty hilarious.
Some people act like JJ and the writers/art directors/concept artists didnt all sit around and have the exact same conversation people on here are having.
Some people act like JJ and the writers/art directors/concept artists didnt all sit around and have the exact same conversation people on here are having.
I just think it's really hard to judge what was going on on the set from the outside in like that. You know she is a good actress and yet she didn't do well in the prequels. I think it makes more sense to try to observe why she didn't do well in the prequels vs questioning her commitment or work ethic on set.
When there are so many talented actors in a film and ALL of them produce flat wooden performances, it's not their fault. That blame falls squarely on the director.
A friend of mine today said he didn't like the Star Wars trailer because "Stormtroopers are clones, they aren't black." I tried explaining that Clone Troopers and Stormtroopers aren't the same thing, but he wouldn't listen. I said, jokingly, "I'll write you an essay". He said "you do that". I intend on setting him straight. (Please forgive any lore errors. I think it's mostly accurate since I got most of the stuff I didn't know off of Star Wars wiki, but who knows.)
That's more or less how I envisioned it as well
Anakin should have been a teenager like Luke from the start.
Edag Plata
Banned
This.
Ewan McGregor is one of the best. He's a fantastic actor, and even for the most part put on an amazing performacne as Obi-Wan, but then there was scenes like this one:
It literally looked like he was trying not to laugh at the script. "I saw a security recording of him..........KILLING YOUNGLINGS.
Or even before that when he was looking at the recording of Anakin killing everyone, the "I can't watch this anymore." line had ZERO emotion in it. It was a lifeless scene:
When you have such poor performances from someone like McGregor, you know there's something up besides just the actor.
Don't get me started on Palpatine. Going from a genuinely creepy villain in Jedi to the cheese and goofiness of the prequels. It's like they upped the ham considerably from TPM to AOTC and then upped it even further from AOTC to ROTS.
I'm not terribly great with grammar myself, but is that sort of a split infinitive in the second paragraph of the second page?
I think you're right. I did think that sentence was kind of a mouthful, but I couldn't think of a way to word it that would be concise and still make sense.
lol, Sheev
well for one, all of that stuff is not canon anymore, also you can just show him this video which has a interview with one of the guys on the lucasfilm story group who is helping create this new canon:
http://www.starwars.com/video/rebels-recon-inside-droids-in-distress
they answer this question at 2:50. Basically the clones age quicker than normal humans and have a shorter life span. They are all but gone soon after the clone wars. I am reading the book Tarkin which is part of the new cannon which is set 6 years after the events of Episode 3 and they already have stormtroopers that were recruited from academies. In a star wars rebels episode as well they show a stormtrooper academy which is set about 5 yrs before a new hope. As for the emperor being known as a sith, that is still a secret. One of the reasons why he was allowed to get dictator powers was the sympathy and fear that was brought on by the Jedi supposedly trying to dispose an innocent leader of the people.
Lucas is a technology director. He built a technology empire within the film industry. He was always into leveraging special effects and offloading responsibility to others.
It was Kershner who gave all the actors material to work with. Lucas would often say "do whatever" do actors questions. He liked improve and liked the idea it brought out the instrinsic aspects of the actors that he had cast. Even including the pronouncing of character names.
It's quite clear that Lucas gathered too much power during the prequels filming, not enough people to confront him and propose constructive ideas. The film crew was a bunch of people that wanted to work on a star wars film, not enough people that were passionate about leveraging strong opinion to counter George's.
Really is a shame because McGregor is one of my favorite actors, and the perfect one to play a young Alec Guinness. It was squandered though.
This.
Ewan McGregor is one of the best. He's a fantastic actor, and even for the most part put on an amazing performacne as Obi-Wan, but then there was scenes like this one:
It literally looked like he was trying not to laugh at the script. "I saw a security recording of him..........KILLING YOUNGLINGS.
Or even before that when he was looking at the recording of Anakin killing everyone, the "I can't watch this anymore." line had ZERO emotion in it. It was a lifeless scene:
When you have such poor performances from someone like McGregor, you know there's something up besides just the actor.
Don't get me started on Palpatine. Going from a genuinely creepy villain in Jedi to the cheese and goofiness of the prequels. It's like they upped the ham considerably from TPM to AOTC and then upped it even further from AOTC to ROTS.
Completely unrelated, but this post surfaced an annoyance of mine that I had completely forgotten about.
The fact that Obiwan for some reason got cosmetic surgery between the prequels and OT trilogy. Ewans forehead moles...
Shhhhhhh... I don't think he knows that.
And I forgot about the Emperor not being publicly known as a Sith. I always thought it was public knowledge after the events of Episode 3, but everyone viewed the Jedi as corrupt so they just went with it? I should start watching Rebels too, seems like I'm missing out on a lot there.
TheGreatDirector
Banned
Though I used to think differently, I now believe Episode I is indeed better than Episode 2.
Attack of the Clones when compared to the Phantom Menace is much worse in handling dialogue. The poor writing also magnifies the major issue of that film in which most of the time nothing is actually happening that the audience cares about. There are few action scenes and most occur in the last act of the film. The majority of the middle is spent on detailing a romance which wasn't even alluded to in the first film due to the noticeable age difference Anakin and Padme seemed to have. On top of that, most of what we see are on worlds we already have seen before with new worlds like Kamino and Geonosis receiving little screen time in comparison to Tatooine(which is limited in scenery for this film), Coruscant, and Naboo. The sense of urgency that previous Star War films had is replaced with a slow, almost deadening pace that seems entirely opposite of what the franchise used to consist of. The payoff from this slog is a quick battle involving Jedi, Clone Troopers, and Droids that goes by in a flash and barely sticks in one's memory in comparison to battles of past movies which typically had worthwhile buildup.
Attack of the Clones when compared to the Phantom Menace is much worse in handling dialogue. The poor writing also magnifies the major issue of that film in which most of the time nothing is actually happening that the audience cares about. There are few action scenes and most occur in the last act of the film. The majority of the middle is spent on detailing a romance which wasn't even alluded to in the first film due to the noticeable age difference Anakin and Padme seemed to have. On top of that, most of what we see are on worlds we already have seen before with new worlds like Kamino and Geonosis receiving little screen time in comparison to Tatooine(which is limited in scenery for this film), Coruscant, and Naboo. The sense of urgency that previous Star War films had is replaced with a slow, almost deadening pace that seems entirely opposite of what the franchise used to consist of. The payoff from this slog is a quick battle involving Jedi, Clone Troopers, and Droids that goes by in a flash and barely sticks in one's memory in comparison to battles of past movies which typically had worthwhile buildup.
This.
To try and zero in on one actor as the crux of the prequel trilogy debacle is a foolish errand. The films don't work because they tell rather than show, and they're a sterilized, lazy CGI fest.
Let's face it: Lucas had far too much control over these movies, no producers to reign him in and was a lazy director who wanted to rely on CGI. The script, as we all know, was garbage. The characters aren't relatable. Also, he got away with choosing unknown cast and crew in the past, but it bit him in the ass with Christensen. The guy was not some diamond in the rough; he was an subpar teen actor with basically no range or subtlety who was asked to carry a lot of water for the movie. Go back and watch Hamill's work with Yoda when he's dying. That's a potentially silly scene, but he makes you believe. Big difference.
I don't place it squarely on Christensen (as that's what I'm arguing you shouldn't do), but he wasn't able to handle what the role required. That said, all actors were sabotaged by bad set design, too much CGI and a non-existent script. The whole endeavor was a money-making venture that had "artistic merit" as a distant companion.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Eh, don't bother yet.
Just hit midseason break and there hasn't been anything too exciting yet besides speculation.
Future PhaZe
Member
Well the prequels were supposed to be about how Anakin becomes Vader, and literally 3/4 of the way through the third film we still have no idea why or how its going to happen. When it happens, it's literally impossible to be empathetic about it because it's just so utterly ridiculous in its logic.
I'd argue that Anakin/Vader should never have been the one to essentially kill all the Jedi. They should have just all naturally died off as a result of the conflict faced in the prequels. And Anakin should have taken the role as Vader to prevent something like it from ever happening again.
I'd argue that Anakin/Vader should never have been the one to essentially kill all the Jedi. They should have just all naturally died off as a result of the conflict faced in the prequels. And Anakin should have taken the role as Vader to prevent something like it from ever happening again.
That's hot.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
Towards the end, you refer to "the battle of Yavin", but I believe you are referring to Endor by the context (precursor to a period of peace.) The Battle of Yavin actually escalated the galactic civil war.
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