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[BattleMonkey]

its unsettling to hear the issues with the end game. I am only level 15 and I am having a blast! I will sub as long as I am still having fun.

I hope Bioware can add new planets and flash points and stuff as we go along becuase that is what I love the most.

People who got to end game within a week or two of release with no intention of doing alts basically were doomed to quit. Even if end game raids were giving incredible godly loot, once these folks got their gear, the game was basically over for them.

 

[CzarTim]

This is one of my main reasons I cancelled. My brother has been max level for a few days, and he's been looking at gear. When he realized that the PVP gear was easier to get and better than PVE items, he cancelled his sub. It's like having battleground gear in WoW being better than heroic gear.

Not that they can't turn it around, but it's decisions like these that make it abundantly clear that this is Bioware's first MMO.

The PVP gear is only really good for PVP though, since it has the Expertise stat.

 

[Dunlop]

I'm beginning to suspect I'm the only player who has absolutely no interest whatsoever in PvP.

Why do PvE? Because it's fun as an end unto itself?

I like the mixture, with the lack of a 50 bracket however I do not even try once I determine the other side is loaded with them. I just quit (there is no penalty) and requeue.

I hope everyone will do this to force Bioware to implement this strangely missing feature.


you quite simply have no chance of beating a lvl 50 premade due to the gear difference, it is comical to watch Hutball games where people can just stand in place to receive the pass with an entire team pelting on them to minimal effect

 

[Interfectum]

TBH it would be nice if raiders quickly moved on to another game so Bioware isn't tempted to design the entire end-game around raiding.

 

[commish]

The PVP gear is only really good for PVP though, since it has the Expertise stat.

How do you figure? The other stats work as they normally would... the fact that it has expertise is irrelevant.

 

[Zafir]

Why do people use this argument ever? "There isn't much point because so and so is better at this one thing than me and not bad enough at the thing I'm really good at for people to care so no one will pick me for their team". It's absurd. If you -do not suck- you will get endless groups and if you suck you will have trouble getting groups.

I don't even understand why someone who claims to understand all of this is really even concerned about another class. You can't have all the tools; you're clearly knowledgeable enough that you could have researched and known beforehand that Juggernauts would struggle in aoe situations. If you chose your class based on theme/fun factor than what someone else can do shouldn't even register.

And you can keep aggro on more than 1 or 2 mobs. If it's an aoe pull and you're level 50 you can certainly manage to hold aggro on a group long enough for the silver/normals to die (IE: the length of your aoe taunt) and keep aggro on the 2-4 elites with a kill rotation and non-fail players.

No matter what fixes they make I can't see them giving Warriors good aoe; it's pretty clear that was meant to be the major weakness in the class from the beginning as even the aoe spec is underwhelming.

I chose my class in early access on the first day, there wasn't a load on the class, especially since changes were made in the beta.

As for groups, I can keep aggro on them long enough to kill them, if people are smart enough to kill them quickly. Unfortunately the majority of the population are idiots who don't listen. Admittedly that isn't a fault of the class itself, but still.

Why do I care? I care about balance. Now I'm not saying warriors are broken, unplayable or whatever the swtor forums are screaming about. However I do think the class needs tweaking slightly.

Regardless, this argument is getting us no where since you seem to believe otherwise.

The PVP gear is only really good for PVP though, since it has the Expertise stat.

It isn't. It's pretty good for PvE as well. While it does have expertise on, the other stats are still there and in some cases, better than what you can get in HM flashpoints.

 

[Skellig Gra]

Not regretting my choice as a Consular, really a ton of awesome abilities, and so versatile with the mix of companions you get so. I fear nerfs incoming but hopefully I'll be max level by then.

 

[BattleMonkey]

This is one of my main reasons I cancelled. My brother has been max level for a few days, and he's been looking at gear. When he realized that the PVP gear was easier to get and better than PVE items, he cancelled his sub. It's like having battleground gear in WoW being better than heroic gear.

Not that they can't turn it around, but it's decisions like these that make it abundantly clear that this is Bioware's first MMO.

And if raid gear was best you would be running the same two raids over and over again for a few weeks at most and then what? You would have top gear with nothing to do except wait for another raid to come out with better gear?

If getting to endgame and best gear is all that you cared about, then how long did you really belive you would be playing this game for?

 

[CzarTim]

How do you figure? The other stats work as they normally would... the fact that it has expertise is irrelevant.

It has Expertise in lieu of another stat. It might get you by for normal gameplay, but you won't compete with people who have the comparable PVE gear. Also, hard mode FPs are HARD without proper gear.

 

[Einbroch]

And if raid gear was best you would be running the same two raids over and over again for a few weeks at most and then what? You would have top gear with nothing to do except wait for another raid to come out with better gear?

If getting to endgame and best gear is all that you cared about, then how long did you really belive you would be playing this game for?

Uh. A while? I play MMOs for progression. If progression doesn't exist at level 50, then why continue to play? With no carrot at the end of the stick, there's no reason to play an MMO for me. I don't mean that endgame is the only thing that matters, but for MMO players that is likely where you are to spend 90% of your time.

Sure you get a sense of accomplishment when downing a hard boss, but I want something to show for it, I guess. I'm not even a hardcore raider at all. But I want to play towards something.

 

[Gunmonkey36]

It has Expertise in lieu of another stat. It might get you by for normal gameplay, but you won't compete with people who have the comparable PVE gear. Also, hard mode FPs are HARD without proper gear.

My PVP gear is better than anything else I could be wearing for hardmode FP's. The only way to get better gear would to do said hardmode FP's and OPS.

PVP gear especially the champion and battlemaster level are absolutely acceptable for PVE in this game.

 

[CzarTim]

It isn't. It's pretty good for PvE as well. While it does have expertise on, the other stats are still there and in some cases, better than what you can get in HM flashpoints.

Dude, crafted gear is better than PVP gear.

 

[Gunmonkey36]

Dude, crafted gear is better than PVP gear.

Mhm guess where you get that crafted materials from... O thats right hardmode FP's and OPS

 

[Prodigal]

Been having a lot of fun 3 manning some of the dungeons with my friends. I didn't think we'd be able to but we scraped by completing the Mandalorian Raiders dungeon with only one of us being the proper level. Jugg/Assassin/Sorc is a pretty good combo, even with the Jugg being new to MMO's.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Uh. A while? I play MMOs for progression. If progression doesn't exist at level 50, then why continue to play? With no carrot at the end of the stick, there's no reason to play an MMO for me. I don't mean that endgame is the only thing that matters, but for MMO players that is likely where you are to spend 90% of your time.

Sure you get a sense of accomplishment when downing a hard boss, but I want something to show for it, I guess. I'm not even a hardcore raider at all. But I want to play towards something.

Thing is that the game has only been out for a few weeks now, if people have reached the end already and hit a ceiling, they basically are going to be entertained by any game. Even with regular content updates, people who have gone this fast at it are just going to keep hitting that ceiling. You want to keep using your character you maxed out sure, but everything takes time to continue and grow, but even with new content added, it is going to merely last people a couple weeks at most.

There was people in the first week already at 50 going "now what?". No matter how much of a carrot on sticks were out there, the ceiling was going to get hit quickly by many of these players.

Playing alts and experiencing other class stories is ideal part of this game, and if anything it's more alt friendly than most games that you have to play the exact same content no matter the class.

 

[ConfusingJazz]

I'm beginning to suspect I'm the only player who has absolutely no interest whatsoever in PvP.

Oh thank god, I thought I was alone!

 

[JWong]

It has Expertise in lieu of another stat. It might get you by for normal gameplay, but you won't compete with people who have the comparable PVE gear. Also, hard mode FPs are HARD without proper gear.

I'm actually not sure of this, but I only had quest gear.

PVP gear (champion) has all the same and better stats than my questing gear with expertise added on. Expertise doesn't seem to be in place of another important stat.

I believe with the lack of one of the mod slots, PVE stats can become higher.

 

[BattleMonkey]

PVP gear has to be viable as well but it should be more tweaked towards pvp use and not as good as pve exclusive gear.

 

[Zafir]

Dude, crafted gear is better than PVP gear.

Not the ones I've seen on the AH, and I'm Biochem, because it's by far the most useful crew skill for a tank. Which PVP gear are you looking at? Centurion PVP gear is barely better than the armour you can get from the Corellian Comms vendor. However Champion and Battlemaster is pretty nice. Champions PVP set is better than the Tionese set. However, it is worse than the Columi set.

Edit: Oh, and Expertise does NOT, replace a stat. The Tionese/Columi/Rakata gear has 4 stats on each piece. PVP has 5, because one is expertise.

 

[sangreal]

I'm actually not sure of this, but I only had quest gear.

PVP gear (champion) has all the same and better stats than my questing gear with expertise added on. Expertise doesn't seem to be in place of another important stat.

I believe with the lack of one of the mod slots, PVE stats can become higher.

endgame pve drops lack the mod slot too (to prevent people from farming the first boss for mods instead of finishing the dungeons)

 

[Dina]

I'm getting getting quite miffed with PvP objectives not updating. About half the games I win don't count for the daily and the weekly.

 

[QisTopTier]

In the long run pvp gear will have a fuck ton of end. and pve gear will have what ever your classes main stat is.

 

[Gunmonkey36]

In the long run pvp gear will have a fuck ton of end. and pve gear will have what ever your classes main stat is.

This is true, but as a tank endurance is very nice, lol.

 

[Bukowskifan]

Just got this and guna attempt to have some casual fun.

Looking at sniper or smuggler/scoundrel. Those seem pretty fun.

 

[erragal]

I chose my class in early access on the first day, there wasn't a load on the class, especially since changes were made in the beta.

As for groups, I can keep aggro on them long enough to kill them, if people are smart enough to kill them quickly. Unfortunately the majority of the population are idiots who don't listen. Admittedly that isn't a fault of the class itself, but still.

Why do I care? I care about balance. Now I'm not saying warriors are broken, unplayable or whatever the swtor forums are screaming about. However I do think the class needs tweaking slightly.

Regardless, this argument is getting us no where since you seem to believe otherwise.


It isn't. It's pretty good for PvE as well. While it does have expertise on, the other stats are still there and in some cases, better than what you can get in HM flashpoints.

I actually agree that some tweaks are needed. Sweeping slash in particular needs a pretty large buff; damage is just way too low on it for the role it serves.

There's just no benefit in the 'I want what they have' method of class balance; consider each class independently of the other classes and design them to fit their design guidelines.

 

[Owensboro]

I'm beginning to suspect I'm the only player who has absolutely no interest whatsoever in PvP.

Why do PvE? Because it's fun as an end unto itself?

You're not the only one!

I've always enjoyed fighting bosses in MMOs and trying to figure out how to kill them. Also, I love trying stupid stuff that shouldn't work: Like 2-manning 4-person heroics (I did this with a Gunslunger yesterday. Yes that's right, we had no proper tank! And it was fun!). I honestly want to try and 2-man some of the Flash Points with a good tank just to see if we could even pull it off. I guess it's the challenge of "solving the puzzle" of the combat and scenarios that I like the most.

PvP just always ends up being too stressful to me. It never makes me happy, it always makes me more and more angry. If you are losing, people just bicker back and forth about whose fault it is (strangely enough, it's never theirs). As a healer, I always get focus fired to hell and back and then get blamed for not being high on the "healing charts". I think my dislike of PvP stems from the fact that I always like playing a support class in Multiplayer (Medic / Engineer in TF2) and always get angry when people don't want to play smart (Defend the objective! Stop going for kills!).

In all honesty I haven't tried PvP in SWTOR yet, but I have exactly 0 desire to. Even in guild chat, it's just people complaining about never winning and sounding like they are having an awful time.

Maybe I just need to get in a GAF premade or something.

 

[FLEABttn]

Oh thank god, I thought I was alone!

About half the people I play with don't like it either. I've never thought PvP worked well in DIKU MMO's such as these.

The other half love PvP, but only under the assumptions that they win the majority of the time, they have the upper hand in matches or in the open world, and that PvP in designated PvP zones in the world is "stupid" (they're bloodthirsty little bastards who will camp people simply trying to level mercilessly, but the second someone starts PvP in the FFA area of Tatooine, they get pissy and complain about why anyone would do that there. This has also been my experience with them in WoW)

Frankly, if I want to kill people, I'll play LoL, BF3, TF2, CS, or pretty much any game that isn't a PvE focused MMO.

 

[Heysoos]

Pretty much sums up Warzones on the Republic side.

 

[erragal]

About half the people I play with don't like it either. I've never thought PvP worked well in DIKU MMO's such as these.

The other half love PvP, but only under the assumptions that they win the majority of the time, they have the upper hand in matches or in the open world, and that PvP in designated PvP zones in the world is "stupid" (they're bloodthirsty little bastards who will camp people simply trying to level mercilessly, but the second someone starts PvP in the FFA area of Tatooine, they get pissy and complain about why anyone would do that there. This has also been my experience with them in WoW)

Frankly, if I want to kill people, I'll play LoL, BF3, TF2, CS, or pretty much any game that isn't a PvE focused MMO.

I agree a lot with this though I do enjoy scenario based PVP in MMO's. Specifically I really had fun with it in Warhammer while leveling up; each bracket had its' own unique balance with some stronger/weaker classes but for the most part everyone was competitive.

To me it's still the fun diversion while PVE is the actual meat of a game like this. I don't keep playing an MMO because of the PVP competition; it's entirely based on the quality of content and encounter design.

 

[bounchfx]

About half the people I play with don't like it either. I've never thought PvP worked well in DIKU MMO's such as these.

The other half love PvP, but only under the assumptions that they win the majority of the time, they have the upper hand in matches or in the open world, and that PvP in designated PvP zones in the world is "stupid" (they're bloodthirsty little bastards who will camp people simply trying to level mercilessly, but the second someone starts PvP in the FFA area of Tatooine, they get pissy and complain about why anyone would do that there. This has also been my experience with them in WoW)

Frankly, if I want to kill people, I'll play LoL, BF3, TF2, CS, or pretty much any game that isn't a PvE focused MMO.

I love PvP, but looking at scoreboards and seeing one team with 50 kills across the board, and the other with 3-4 for each player isn't pvp. That can't be fun for either side.

then again, I come from PvP in everquest which had meaning. nowadays it's gank people with no real consequence or join a group and go into an instance. I liked it when there was a risk involved, you got all their gold, or an item, and if you fucked up you were at risk too. It wasn't just LOL IM GUN' ATTACK EM. It had to be planned out, and there was real politics involved. It was a lot cooler and meaningful.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Pretty much sums up Warzones on the Republic side.

I've seen this in Empire pug pvp as well, it's not really a Rep exclusive thing. The smaller player pop on Rep side has the shitty players affecting things more than on with Empire which has more diverse and large pop to choose from.

 

[frequency]

I just hate when devs balance classes based on PvP. All that ever results from that is everyone gets nerfed. If you ever talk to anyone about PvP, they basically just whine about every class (other than their own of course) being overpowered.

But anyway...
I'm not sure I'm going to subscribe to this game after my free month. I'm enjoying it enough. The story stuff is what I'm mostly into and what sets it apart from other post-WoW MMOs. But for me, the gameplay here is pretty mediocre. The battles just take way too long and stuff like that. I hate having to fight a group with every single pull.
I would much prefer if enemies were harder but I only had to fight one at a time. I hate having like 4 weak mobs and 1 strong mob. I don't know why... but I just do. It's just not fun. It kind of reminds me of the Dragon Age 2 encounter design.

I also hate that I have so many skills. I know... choices are good and stuff but... I am soooo overwhelmed. I'm only level 30something and my bars are full. I don't feel like I can remove anything because everything seems it has a situational use.

I don't know what the answer is. It's just... I have way more abilities in this game than any other recent MMO I've played but... I have the same, or even less (for some classes) "tactical choices" during actual combat.

And the lack of an auto attack is very bad for me. I hate that my choice is either to fight or to chat.

The story is going to have to really pick up and hook me for me to subscribe. Right now, I'm enjoying it, but it's not $15 a month material.

 

[daedalius]

I haven't played a ton of pvp yet... but I think they should separate the 50s from 49 and below, considering you really can start investing into your pvp gear at 50, and most people doing it while leveling are just messing around. While it still isn't super competitive or an even playing field, it would be more enjoyable to hop in for a few rounds.

While I appreciate the 'scaling' of lower levels, a scaled lower level will never be able to compete with a level 50 decked in full pvp gear. Its just a competitive joke.

 

[Derrick01]

I'm beginning to suspect I'm the only player who has absolutely no interest whatsoever in PvP.

Why do PvE? Because it's fun as an end unto itself?

There's no one more anti pvp than me. I had the same issue at one point in WoW because Blizzard was starting to give better PvP gear to the point where it was roughly equal. Only time I really did it was when I needed an offhand sword for raiding but there weren't any in the dungeons (at least none in the ones that we were doing), so I had to do arenas until I had enough to buy the pvp one.

I wasn't happy about that to say the least.

 

[commish]

I've seen this in Empire pug pvp as well, it's not really a Rep exclusive thing. The smaller player pop on Rep side has the shitty players affecting things more than on with Empire which has more diverse and large pop to choose from.

I've seen this in every objective-based multiplayer map in the history of gaming.

 

[BattleMonkey]

I haven't played a ton of pvp yet... but I think they should separate the 50s from 49 and below, considering you really can start investing into your pvp gear at 50, and most people doing it while leveling are just messing around. While it still isn't super competitive or an even playing field, it would be more enjoyable to hop in for a few rounds.

While I appreciate the 'scaling' of lower levels, a scaled lower level will never be able to compete with a level 50 decked in full pvp gear. Its just a competitive joke.

They are already doing this, this week actually.

 

[daedalius]

They are already doing this, this week actually.

Oh, well how excellent. Got a link where this is detailed?

That is about the only thing I can think of so far.

That and maybe cleaning up the animation/GCD interaction, but I know they are looking at this.

 

[Ken]

Finally got my first piece of PvP gear. Yeah, I've lost every match so far but I'm getting new armor so I'm happy.

Any PvP tips? I'm just trying to use my most damaging abilities and cryo grenade/harpoon when they try to run. This is my first time PvPing in a MMO.

 

[Won]

I just wished that Alterac was the blueprint for this instanced PvP stuff and not Warsong.



Finally got some stuff out of Champion bags. My Cape! So ugly......I want to wear my Smuggler Robe again. :/

 

[BattleMonkey]

Oh, well how excellent. Got a link where this is detailed?

That is about the only thing I can think of so far.

That and maybe cleaning up the animation/GCD interaction, but I know they are looking at this.

It's in the public test server now and the forum at the official site. They are considering also doing more brackets down the line, but for now it seems they are just putting the 50's in their own bracket by themselves while it's going to be 1-49 for everyone else for now.

 

[FLEABttn]

I love PvP, but looking at scoreboards and seeing one team with 50 kills across the board, and the other with 3-4 for each player isn't pvp. That can't be fun for either side.

Few who I've played with have enjoyed close games. I'm not going to speak to the entire community who does PvP, but in my small circle, the ones who love it only love it when they crush the other side.

There's a design problem that can come from where one faction consistently crushed the other: the losing faction can take their ball and go home. This is a design problem unique to MMO's where you have hard coded factions, because it's not like you can change sides/server at the click of a button.

then again, I come from PvP in everquest which had meaning. nowadays it's gank people with no real consequence or join a group and go into an instance. I liked it when there was a risk involved, you got all their gold, or an item, and if you fucked up you were at risk too. It wasn't just LOL IM GUN' ATTACK EM. It had to be planned out, and there was real politics involved. It was a lot cooler and meaningful.

I wasn't there for older PvP (I really only got into the genre in 2004) so I can't say how things used to be and how they were better or anything like that, but I can tell you that world PvP in modern PvE focused MMO's has a John Gabriel Greater Internet Fuckwad theory aspect to it.

Or as Robert E. Howard put it "Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing".

 

[JWong]

I just wished that Alterac was the blueprint for this instanced PvP stuff and not Warsong.



Finally got some stuff out of Chamion bags. My Cape! So ugly......I want to wear my Smuggler Robe again. :/

14 hours Alterac Valleys? Yes please. 8)

They should just make a Battlefront Warzone. We got ground combat and space combat, why not?

 

[jersoc]

I just hate when devs balance classes based on PvP. All that ever results from that is everyone gets nerfed. If you ever talk to anyone about PvP, they basically just whine about every class (other than their own of course) being overpowered.
.

yup, this is why they need 2 rulesets. this completely destroyed wow for me. blizzard just kept changing all the classes all the god damn time and i got fed up with it. it's like there was no thought given and they just changed whatever the forum was louder about. listening to the playerbase on pvp is awful because every class but your own is OP. People have no clue.

 

[Prodigal]

Are there any opportunities on contested planets like Tatooine to sneak around opposite-side faction camps and pick off players/NPC's? I loved doing this in Rift as a rogue and got a bunch of "server first" NPC kills just because no one was attempting to be an asshole in that way.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Are there any opportunities on contested planets like Tatooine to sneak around opposite-side faction camps and pick off players/NPC's? I loved doing this in Rift as a rogue and got a bunch of "server first" NPC kills just because no one was attempting to be an asshole in that way.

If you can sneak past the high level NPCs guarding those areas, sure.

 

[jiien]

Are there any opportunities on contested planets like Tatooine to sneak around opposite-side faction camps and pick off players/NPC's? I loved doing this in Rift as a rogue and got a bunch of "server first" NPC kills just because no one was attempting to be an asshole in that way.

Most of the NPCs in the opposing faction towns are level 50 champions. It would be doable at 50 with some buddies, maybe.

 

[Patryn]

Are there any opportunities on contested planets like Tatooine to sneak around opposite-side faction camps and pick off players/NPC's? I loved doing this in Rift as a rogue and got a bunch of "server first" NPC kills just because no one was attempting to be an asshole in that way.

I know I ran into a Sith player as my Trooper was running through his regular quests, so yes, you can make your way into opposing faction areas.

But unless Sith are generally allowed into Anchorhead, I don't think you can reach that (surrounded by exhaustion zones).

 

[Venfayth]

Are there any opportunities on contested planets like Tatooine to sneak around opposite-side faction camps and pick off players/NPC's? I loved doing this in Rift as a rogue and got a bunch of "server first" NPC kills just because no one was attempting to be an asshole in that way.

There were server first things like that in rift? Fuck. What was that other game that had world/server first achievements for like the first people to craft an item or kill an npc? Was it Vanguard?

 

[Prodigal]

There were server first things like that in rift? Fuck. What was that other game that had world/server first achievements for like the first people to craft an item or kill an npc? Was it Vanguard?

Yeah Vanguard had it, I think EQ1 and 2 might have had it also?

 

[daedalius]

Wow people in official forums complaining about 50s only bracket...