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Star Wars vs Lord of the Rings....which is the better series?
- Thread starter isamu
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Goddam your blindness knows no limits!Wendo said:
If anything, StarWars thrives on DOING, the focus is on the images, not the dialogue, Lucas has said that he approached StarWars as silent films many times.
There are quiet shots of Anakin watching Padme (one of the best parts in ROTS is them looking across Coruscant to eachother), Padme breaking into tears not knowing if her husband is safe, Vader choking his wife in a blind rage, Anakin circling Obi Wan like a caged animal.
StarWars has very touching moments. Things like the moment where Padme realises that Obi Wan is going to kill Anakin, and Obi Wan realises that Anakin is the father, and neither know what to say to eachother. The emotional monologue Obi Wan gives to Anakin as he struggles for help and the greatly perturbed look on Obi Wan's face after leaving his best friend (a brother, an apprentice, a husband and a father) to die in flames. Obi Wan sacrificing himself on the Death Star, Han Solo getting frozen, Luke begging his father for help while being zapped. There's just much more going on here.
Though I must agree that Boromir's death was really good, he was my favourite character from the fellowship, and he went out in an even bigger blaze of glory in the extended edition.
Anakin's death in ROTJ is almost as good.
Saki said:
Agreed. In ESB, when Luke escapes from the cloud city, you see Vader looking out from the star destroyer watching the milenium falcon struggling to switch to hyperspace, Vader says nothing but looks, it cuts to Luke resting in his quarters who senses his father, he walks over to the cockpit and all the outside noise is softened, you can really feel the connection between Luke and Vader. No words are spoken. They both look directly at each other. When the Falcon finally escapes, Vader ponders for a little while, turns around and walks to his chamber. You almost feel sorry for him.
Theres plenty of those moments in ESB and ROTJ.
Yep, and you can read Piett's face, he's like: "Oooooh man, I'm gonna get it now" and Vader just walks by deep in thought.Prine said:
And the pain that strikes Yoda when Order 66 is happening, exactly the same as Obi Wan when Alderaan is blown up. No words, the face says it all.
And when Luke and Vader talk at the Imperial Base on Endor, after he tells Luke that the Emperor is his new master and Luke says: "Then my father is truly dead..." and taken away, you can tell Vader is deeply conflicted, even with that mask on.
Howbout Dooku in ROTS, when Palpatine commends Anakin and tells him to kill him. Dooku says nothing but knows he's been duped, Palpatine wasn't going to save him like he promised, he realised this was why he wanted to lure Anakin onto Grievous' ship.
There's many tense moments like these.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
^^^
This, all by itself, is better than the entire LOTR trilogy. And I friggin' love LOTR.
brooklyngooner
Member
The writing in all Star Wars movies makes me cringe. I hadn't seen the original trilogy for a long time before I got the DVDs and I was amazed at how shitty the dialogue is and how awkward all the characters' interactions are rendered by goofy phrasing. And Lucas' sermonizing is ham-handed and unwelcome.
Both sets are plagued by some bad acting. Hammil (sp?), Christiansen and Bloom are awful, awful, school-of-face-twitch indicator actors.
LotR are just better films.
Both sets are plagued by some bad acting. Hammil (sp?), Christiansen and Bloom are awful, awful, school-of-face-twitch indicator actors.
LotR are just better films.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
brooklyngooner said:
But the thing is, to me at least, that's what makes the original Star Wars trilogy so damn endearing and great. There's something about the corniness of the dialogue and acting--especially the great scenes between Han and Leia in ESB--that is almost romantic in a throwback/nostalgia way.
It's cheesy, but it's charmingbrooklyngooner said:
"But I was going to Tosche's station to pick up some power converters!!"
I don't see where you're going with Mark Hamill and Hayden Christensen, their performances mature in the films just like their characters, that's the reason why Lucas went with young actors, it gives them more depth, more believability.
Hayden is a perfect synthesis between Jake Lloyd, David Prowse/James Earl Jones/Sebastian Shaw and he even throws in some Mark Hamill. What more can you ask?
brooklyngooner
Member
bob_arctor said:
I think part of what happened for me is that the newer trilogy made me realize that Lucas was serious with all that. If I thought he was being campy on purpose I think I would see it in a whole different light. But the newer ones made me jaded, because they're all the problems with the first triology x 100. I agree with you though that Ford and Fisher handled it very well, moreso than Christiansen and Portman, neither of whom could act their way out of a paper bag. Don't get me wrong; I like the first three. Well, really like ESB, like the first, think RotJ is kind of limp-dicked.
galeninjapan
Banned
Yall think the Star Wars OT is corny and cheesy? I think its great.
SonicMegaDrive
Member
I like the banter between Luke, Han, Leia, Obi Wan, Lando, and even 3P0.
Good, cheesy, Sci-Fi stuff.
Good, cheesy, Sci-Fi stuff.
radioheadrule83
Banned
I'm sure it's already been said, but it's a stupid comparison, and contrary to those proclaiming LOTR better out of some kind of pervasive and extensive movie-making knowledge -- I don't think there is rearlly an objective answer to which is the better series.
There are criticisms you can make as a matter of opinion for both. I'm not going to go into criticising either set of films, because rather than be negative about them I'd prefer to be quite enthusiastic.
I will say this though: the nature of each series is totally different from the other. One set of films is derivative of classic books. Although the screenplay and the direction are excellent in LOTR, to some extent, a lot of the really hard work (the heart and soul of the story) was already done. They may both be fantasy films, but I don't think they could be more different. Each LOTR film is expansive in it's final DVD form, whereas SW movies are in easily digestable 2 hour episodes. They're both personal journeys for their characters, but the settings and context couldn't be more different. One of them is deliberately similar to soap operas and 50s serials, and borrows from John Ford westerns, Akira Kurusawa, old wartime fighter plane footage, pays homage to Errol Flynn movies, Ray Harryhausen-esque creatures and so forth. Lord of the Rings is grounded in the genius of a literary masterpiece -- Star Wars is grounded in an eclectic mish mash of saturday matinee family entertainment, very basic forms of myth and other aforementioned influences. To a Star Wars fan that appreciates this, simple dialogue or ham-laden delivery is all a part of the authenticity.
There are great achievements on all sides:
On the LOTR side -
Peter Jackson getting acclaim he deserves
WETA making an impact on an ILM dominated industry
Great performances from a great cast
Shot and released in quick succession for a great sense of continuity
Bringing the books to life with a great screenplay
and of course - great success generally.
On the Star Wars side:
The originals were movies that went from horrible-risks nobody would touch to groundbreaking classics
There were effects never seen before...
... by an effects team that has went on to work on countless blockbuster movies
... that team has created technologies that have made movie-making, image manipulation and effects creation cheaper for the whole industry
Star Wars helped with the push on Dolby audio,
Star Wars was a compelling story for the whole family with truly memorable performances, great twist and a fantastic conclusion.
The prequels are further pushing technologies- the composition work is insane: matte paintings, stock video, CGI and real actors meld together seamlessly in shots you never hear people moan about (of course I'm not saying there aren't obvious / dodgy effects).
Every clone trooper in AOTC was CG, not one suit was built - ditto for ROTS.
ROTS has more animated content intertwined with filmed footage than many animated feature films
... all on a tight budget too for a movie of this kind / scale.
AOTC and ROTS have lead the charge in pushing DLP technology, Lucas has converted and recruited Cameron, Rodruiguez and others to the cause too - and he will soon have Star Wars push new 3d technology too. The latest AV innovation is always used.
All 6 films have some of the best soundtrack moments ever made, courtesy of John Williams.
As for the PT, which I know a lot of people hate - ask yourself: does anybody (or could) anybody else in movie-land today fund and make movies as unique and bombastic as the Star Wars Prequels? They mightn't be as good as LOTR or the Star Wars OT as far as you're concerned, but when you see one of them I still think you see and hear things you don't really see or hear anywhere else. Isn't that what Star Wars is all about? I think a lot of us forget that Star Wars movies are for kids of all ages as well as for adults too and that's always been the case. Spin offs like Droids, Ewoks, and the very fact that Lucas made his money off of TOYS are proof positive that this is the case. Not to mention that you'll find an army of old trilogy enthusiasts in their twenties. He makes family movies -- we might find some humor displayed in these prequels as horribly offensive sometimes, or we feel the emphasis on effects and action is over-egged... for a moment though, imagine watching them at 9 years old.
I personally think Star Wars gets an unfair cop in these debates. It's a stupid comparison that typically overlooks what fans of both movies think in favour of allowing elitists with a predilection for pointless arguments to force their opinion on others.
LOTR fucking rules, good to see PJ do so well and to our benefit.
But Star Wars AND Lucas rule too. He's a great visual film-maker, and I think he, his movies and his company of wizards has done a lot for other up and coming film makers with visual flair too... PJ included.
There are criticisms you can make as a matter of opinion for both. I'm not going to go into criticising either set of films, because rather than be negative about them I'd prefer to be quite enthusiastic.
I will say this though: the nature of each series is totally different from the other. One set of films is derivative of classic books. Although the screenplay and the direction are excellent in LOTR, to some extent, a lot of the really hard work (the heart and soul of the story) was already done. They may both be fantasy films, but I don't think they could be more different. Each LOTR film is expansive in it's final DVD form, whereas SW movies are in easily digestable 2 hour episodes. They're both personal journeys for their characters, but the settings and context couldn't be more different. One of them is deliberately similar to soap operas and 50s serials, and borrows from John Ford westerns, Akira Kurusawa, old wartime fighter plane footage, pays homage to Errol Flynn movies, Ray Harryhausen-esque creatures and so forth. Lord of the Rings is grounded in the genius of a literary masterpiece -- Star Wars is grounded in an eclectic mish mash of saturday matinee family entertainment, very basic forms of myth and other aforementioned influences. To a Star Wars fan that appreciates this, simple dialogue or ham-laden delivery is all a part of the authenticity.
There are great achievements on all sides:
On the LOTR side -
Peter Jackson getting acclaim he deserves
WETA making an impact on an ILM dominated industry
Great performances from a great cast
Shot and released in quick succession for a great sense of continuity
Bringing the books to life with a great screenplay
and of course - great success generally.
On the Star Wars side:
The originals were movies that went from horrible-risks nobody would touch to groundbreaking classics
There were effects never seen before...
... by an effects team that has went on to work on countless blockbuster movies
... that team has created technologies that have made movie-making, image manipulation and effects creation cheaper for the whole industry
Star Wars helped with the push on Dolby audio,
Star Wars was a compelling story for the whole family with truly memorable performances, great twist and a fantastic conclusion.
The prequels are further pushing technologies- the composition work is insane: matte paintings, stock video, CGI and real actors meld together seamlessly in shots you never hear people moan about (of course I'm not saying there aren't obvious / dodgy effects).
Every clone trooper in AOTC was CG, not one suit was built - ditto for ROTS.
ROTS has more animated content intertwined with filmed footage than many animated feature films
... all on a tight budget too for a movie of this kind / scale.
AOTC and ROTS have lead the charge in pushing DLP technology, Lucas has converted and recruited Cameron, Rodruiguez and others to the cause too - and he will soon have Star Wars push new 3d technology too. The latest AV innovation is always used.
All 6 films have some of the best soundtrack moments ever made, courtesy of John Williams.
As for the PT, which I know a lot of people hate - ask yourself: does anybody (or could) anybody else in movie-land today fund and make movies as unique and bombastic as the Star Wars Prequels? They mightn't be as good as LOTR or the Star Wars OT as far as you're concerned, but when you see one of them I still think you see and hear things you don't really see or hear anywhere else. Isn't that what Star Wars is all about? I think a lot of us forget that Star Wars movies are for kids of all ages as well as for adults too and that's always been the case. Spin offs like Droids, Ewoks, and the very fact that Lucas made his money off of TOYS are proof positive that this is the case. Not to mention that you'll find an army of old trilogy enthusiasts in their twenties. He makes family movies -- we might find some humor displayed in these prequels as horribly offensive sometimes, or we feel the emphasis on effects and action is over-egged... for a moment though, imagine watching them at 9 years old.
I personally think Star Wars gets an unfair cop in these debates. It's a stupid comparison that typically overlooks what fans of both movies think in favour of allowing elitists with a predilection for pointless arguments to force their opinion on others.
LOTR fucking rules, good to see PJ do so well and to our benefit.
But Star Wars AND Lucas rule too. He's a great visual film-maker, and I think he, his movies and his company of wizards has done a lot for other up and coming film makers with visual flair too... PJ included.
Of course, I wasn't even going to comment in this thread, but some of the posts were reeeeeeally stupid.radioheadrule83 said:
I love both, I own LOTR and SW. But as films, I think the general consensus is that StarWars is better
ILM helped Weta get startedradioheadrule83 said:
Rob Coleman gave PJ and Weta lots of pointers on how to do Gollum/Smeagol since he did Watto/Yoda
I think kids really dig the prequels, and that's who StarWars is really made for.radioheadrule83 said:
Well said.radioheadrule83 said:
Lucas was one of the reasons PJ got into directing.
And Lucas loves LOTR.
Without Star Wars, there would not be LOTR movies.
That said, the Star Wars films are far more entertaining than the LOTR movies. Jackson's trilogy has SO MUCH DOWNTIME and so much selective exposition - let me explain this silly romance plotline that wasn't in the books OH BUT FORGET ABOUT THE ACTUAL ENDING BECAUSE I DIDN'T CARE FOR IT - that it just ends up being a typical blockbuster flick with amazing scenery, decent effects and good acting. (And no, I'm not a fan of the LOTR books either - JRR can cook a good storyline but as a writer he failed. I felt like I was reading a textbook.)
Star Wars, even at its lowest moments, never makes me feel like it's forgetting something. If something was missing in Episodes I or II, they popped up in III, or come up in the OT. The Star Wars movies are more complete works.
That said, the Star Wars films are far more entertaining than the LOTR movies. Jackson's trilogy has SO MUCH DOWNTIME and so much selective exposition - let me explain this silly romance plotline that wasn't in the books OH BUT FORGET ABOUT THE ACTUAL ENDING BECAUSE I DIDN'T CARE FOR IT - that it just ends up being a typical blockbuster flick with amazing scenery, decent effects and good acting. (And no, I'm not a fan of the LOTR books either - JRR can cook a good storyline but as a writer he failed. I felt like I was reading a textbook.)
Star Wars, even at its lowest moments, never makes me feel like it's forgetting something. If something was missing in Episodes I or II, they popped up in III, or come up in the OT. The Star Wars movies are more complete works.
Leatherface
Member
bob_arctor said:
^^^
This, all by itself, is better than the entire LOTR trilogy. And I friggin' love LOTR.
God I love that movie... I bow down to the awesomeness of Empire!!
SpeedingUptoStop
will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
If star wars had better acting and better effects in the original, I'd lean that way, but without that, it's LotR.
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
e pluribus scrotum said:
You do know you're on a site/forum for video games right??
ToyMachine228
Member
I prefer Star Wars...But I'd pick Sin City over any film in both series any day.
Ash Housewares
The Mountain Jew
e pluribus scrotum said:
I hate the editing, it's now Lucas tradition to do really bad ugly wipes
The 'Star Wars is meant for the kids' defense that Lucas used and which has been adopted by his fans strikes me as bunk frankly. For one thing the OT was criticially lauded far more than the PT by adult critics. For another ROTS did fairly well compared to the first two PT movies in terms of reviews by... wait for it.. adult critics.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Azih said:
Or maybe I'm just a sucker for hammy dialogue and acting--like that stuff Brittany Murphy was spewing in Sin City--I love that shit. Still, that doesn't explain why I don't like the prequel trilogy at all since it's equally as cheezy yet somehow devoid of any heart imo.
More on topic, find me the LOTR equivalent of "Laugh it up, fuzzball!" and then maybe we can say they're at least equal.
Nostalgia explains it rather well is why I brung it up. Edit: Hey I agree with you that the OT had way more heart than the PT (probably due to the actors and lack of self important dialogue), and I love cheese lines myself ("You're pushing 60 with a bum ticker").bob_arctor said:
Nobody tosses a dwarf?More on topic, find me the LOTR equivalent of "Laugh it up, fuzzball!" and then maybe we can say they're at least equal.
radioheadrule83
Banned
Azih said:
Meant for the kids in addition to the adults, not just meant for kids. I don't see how that's even debatable. Where are the child critics? I'll just post what I posted earlier re: this
Whimsical Phil
Ninja School will help you
bob_arctor said:More on topic, find me the LOTR equivalent of "Laugh it up, fuzzball!" and then maybe we can say they're at least equal.
"PO-TAY-TOES!"
Maybe not quite "fuzzball" level, but it's close.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Whimsical Phil said:
Nah, not even close. I'm telling ya, Han Solo makes all the difference.
Star Wars.
As for the OT being critically lauded, it's a bunch of bull. Critics hated The Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back, and it wasn't until the 1997 re-release that a bunch of them went back and re-wrote their reviews.
I recently read the 1977 New York Timers review of Star Wars which basically said it was a good movie, but only for the kids. oh, how the times have changed.
As for the OT being critically lauded, it's a bunch of bull. Critics hated The Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back, and it wasn't until the 1997 re-release that a bunch of them went back and re-wrote their reviews.
I recently read the 1977 New York Timers review of Star Wars which basically said it was a good movie, but only for the kids. oh, how the times have changed.
galeninjapan
Banned
It's not fucking Nostalgia! For crying out loud, shut the fuck up with that nostalgia shit. Star Wars was/is a great fucking trilogy (ot of course). It got nominated for many oscars at the time and continues to gather fans. The fact that Lucas created a mythology that was so unique at the time and still lives up to the day is so awesome. I was not alive when the Original Star Wars came out, but I could watch that movie many times. Not because of Nostalgia, I have nothing to be nostalgic about because my youth consisted of Inspector Gadget and X-men, not Star Wars. They are just fucking amazing movies plain and simple.
Now that, that is said and done, I also love the LOTR trilogy. A fucking fantastic transition from books to film.
You are very wrong.
Now that, that is said and done, I also love the LOTR trilogy. A fucking fantastic transition from books to film.
You are very wrong.
gofreak said:
Wow, take a chill pill dude.
Mr Gump said:
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
radioheadrule83 said:
Wow....for someone who thinks it's a stupid comparision, you sure made a hell of an elaboration there....
Vinzer Deling
Banned
Battlestar Galactica
LOTR >> Star Wars.
Quality is consistent. Special effects are very well done and often groundbreaking, and not abused and fellated (pointed more toward the PT... the OT deserves plenty of props for being groundbreaking). Acting is pretty fucking good, even with some of the stilted dialogue. Music is a wash, maybe give it to Star Wars. Storied history/consistency is easily LOTR imho, and the direction is just heads and tails over Star Wars.
Each their own, tho.
Quality is consistent. Special effects are very well done and often groundbreaking, and not abused and fellated (pointed more toward the PT... the OT deserves plenty of props for being groundbreaking). Acting is pretty fucking good, even with some of the stilted dialogue. Music is a wash, maybe give it to Star Wars. Storied history/consistency is easily LOTR imho, and the direction is just heads and tails over Star Wars.
Each their own, tho.
Go Go Ackman!
Banned
Fuck LOTR, worthless boring peices of shit. The novels were garbage. Fucking trash that only the most mammoth of nerds would take pride in being a fan of
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