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Star Wars vs Lord of the Rings....which is the better series?
- Thread starter isamu
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Saki said:
What the hell dude? I saw it on Saturday. I'm not lying.
Star Wars is primarily about special effects and just plain "cool stuff". The OT did that well, the PT did not. ROTS was one of the worst films in terms of delivering satisfying action. There was no decent space battle, the wookie battle was wasted, and the swordfights were dull and uninspired. LOTR, on the other hand, delivered in every single film.
The big ATOC battle was just too unorganized, and Dooku was just kind of a throwaway villain. Helm's Deep, in contrast, was able to deliver an amazing epic battle. Speaking of Dooku, Christopher Lee did a MUCH better job in LOTR than he did in Star Wars.
My gripe with the PT is that it trys too hard to do stuff that Lucas just isn't capable of. If he had just played it straight and not tried to do things beyond his abilities (such as writing/directing romance), people like myself would be much more forgiving. Natalie Portman can do romance really well, just look at some of her other films. But Lucas just wasted that potential and turned her into cardboard.
ROTS was not a very good film. I love the action and fun that is Star Wars, but that film just didn't deliver. Without it, it had to rely on storytelling, acting, writing, and characterization. Unfortunately, Lucas wasn't up to the task.
The Empire Strikes Back was a fantastic film, and I absolutely love it. And the Death Star run at the end of ANH still gives me a rush. But the new trilogy just can't come anywere close to providing those adrenaline rushes. LOTR, however, can.
As far as the Aragorn vs Anakin romance thing goes, I really can't see how you can think that Anakin/Padme is in any way superior. Neither LOTR or ROTS did a decent job of really doing the romance well, but LOTR sure came a lot closer. Arwen gave up her immortality to be with Aragorn. There was even that great scene where she saw what their child would look like. Padme just kind of sat around in her apartment.
What I loved about Eowyn was that there was no blatant "I love you!" kind of stuff. It was all very subtle and understated, like it would be in real life. You got the sense that she really liked Aragorn; a stark contrast to Padme in AOTC.
Something else that ROTS lacked was a good "eve before battle" scene- like the Rebel hanger in ANH or the Rohirrim camp on the hill. Something else that LOTR had was focus in its battle scenes. There was a shit load of stuff going on, but it was still pretty easy to focus on things. In comparison, the opening space battle in ROTS was just filled with too much stuff.
As far as special effects go, Lucas just went batshit insane with CGI, whereas Peter Jackson only used it when it would look better than anything else. The result of this technique was that the eclectic mix of special effects really worked well and looked realistic, while Lucas' world just looked too shiny and fake (although ROTS was much better than TPM or ATOC). Yoda in ROTS still doesn't come anywhere close to matching Gollum.
I know a lot of you are beyond reproach, wrapped up bundles of childhood nostalgia with a bit too much zealot poured on top but any look at Star Wars will reveal the series for what it really is (yes that includes the OT), full of shitty acting, shitty pacing and direction, shitty character development and beyond shitty dialogue. Even the best in the series (A New Hope and Empire) got panned by critics on release and that was for the aforementioned reasons and if the movie was first released today it would be universally panned and be forgotten about within a year. In fact the only reason why Star Wars has attracted such an appeal is because it broke technical ground on release, was a particularly unique movie at the time and had quite a nice story that has since evolved into somewhat of a mythology. And I like it, for the story and the Star Wars universe and not for the more traditional aspects of film. In the end though, if you want to compare the two then by all means consider Star Wars your favourite film and I can see the appeal because all six are damn fun movies, but don't even try to make a claim that they are actually better films than LOTR or even in the same league because they are not!!!.
galeninjapan
Banned
Will everyone please stop blaming Nostalgia.
LOTR movies are well made, but repetitive. They got VERY tedious to watch (parts 2 and 3).
For people who say star wars is all about the effects, well w/o vfx the LOTR would be the most boring fucking movies in history.
Although more basic, the themes of star wars resonate much more strongly with people. Simply put, they made for more textured and interesting characters. Vader, Luke, Solo, Yoda, Leia, come on. LOTR characters are boring by comparison, except for Gandolf.
LOTR does feel like there is more at stake, whereas Star wars is mostly cartoon violence. Come on, droids vs clones? Although Anakin burning in the dirt is probably the most graphic of anything in the movies.
P.S. the ESB soundtrack is the best EVER!
For people who say star wars is all about the effects, well w/o vfx the LOTR would be the most boring fucking movies in history.
Although more basic, the themes of star wars resonate much more strongly with people. Simply put, they made for more textured and interesting characters. Vader, Luke, Solo, Yoda, Leia, come on. LOTR characters are boring by comparison, except for Gandolf.
LOTR does feel like there is more at stake, whereas Star wars is mostly cartoon violence. Come on, droids vs clones? Although Anakin burning in the dirt is probably the most graphic of anything in the movies.
P.S. the ESB soundtrack is the best EVER!
kofman said:
Regardless of your feeling on how "boring" the movies are, and that's a perfectly reasonable opinion, the use of vfx in the Lord of the Rings movies, while liberal, is restrained. That's why it's so great. Star Wars is all about beating off the latest computer technology, whereas Lord of the Rings is about that same technology supplimenting the base, not overwhelming it. To point: If George Lucas were making LOTR, the hobbits would all be CG. But to someone who doesn't abuse CG, there are other more convincing methods of bringing most [central] characters to life, and it's far more effective in most cases. There will always need to be CG in movies like Star Wars and LOTR and nobody is trying to bash its importance. But there has to be a balance, and LOTR knows how to maintain that balance. Star Wars simply does not.
kofman said:
You were fine up until here, and then it all came apart. While I'm not going to debate just how "textured" the characters in the Star Wars movies are, saying that the only textured characters in the LOTR movie is "Gandolf" is ridiculous. To use but one example (and to tie into the prior discussion of CG), Gollum alone is far more textured (you could even use "tragic") than most other CG characters.
anotheriori
Member
sorry i don't really have anything to add.. but thought this is might be relevant.
If you hate ROTS, you don't deserve to liveWendo said:
The space battle was great, only problem was they cut too much.
Kashyyyk battle was great, it was there mainly to get Yoda off Coruscant and to have some wookiee fun.
The duels were all fantastic, if you think they're dull and uninspired then you either weren't paying attention or you're being a hypocrite because there's nothing in LOTR that matches it.
You are clearly in the minority about ROTS being a bad film.
Anakin gave up his future for Padme, you must've missed that. Both Padme and Anakin knew the risk their marriage could have on their futures if it became public knowledge. There's lots of affection in the dialogue between Anakin and Padme in ROTS. There was even a cut scene where Anakin and Padme talk about the gender of their child. There's nothing Padme could've done about the Jedi Temple being attacked except cry in her apartment, but she did go all the way to Mustafar to see if her husband was safe, not some pish posh about turning a horse back to Rivendell and having a boring argument with Agent Smith. I don't see where you get off slagging off ROTS' romance, because Anakin's motives are completely driven by it and it works.
To be honest, Aragorn seemed more interested in Legolas and Gimli than Arwen
Eowyn wasn't hiding her feelings towards Aragorn. Padme was for the most part of AOTC, that's why it seemed non existant, but then the next time we see them in ROTS, they don't have any reason to hide anything, and there's much more affection shown.
Why would ROTS need an "eve before battle" scene, they're in the thicket of the Clone Wars, this is an ongoing GALACTIC WAR, not some 'wait for the enemy' pish posh pellanor fields mudfight
The enemy is EVERYWHERE!
Lucas went with CG because it's cheaper, more flexible, and quite frankly there's nothing wrong when you can't tell the difference between a physical set or a digital one.
The look and feel of the prequels fit perfectly (watch the OT on DVD to see what I mean).
The thing with Yoda is they're still trying to keep it fairly consistent with the puppet, so they are holding back - nevertheless, Yoda looks great and really does look like the puppet. Not to mention Weta Digital would be nowhere without ILM.
Ash Housewares
The Mountain Jew
Mashing said:
hooray for constant rehashes of Wagner & Dvorak
...
bleh...
Saki said:If you hate ROTS, you don't deserve to live
The space battle was great, only problem was they cut too much.
Kashyyyk battle was great, it was there mainly to get Yoda off Coruscant and to have some wookiee fun.
The duels were all fantastic, if you think they're dull and uninspired then you either weren't paying attention or you're being a hypocrite because there's nothing in LOTR that matches it.
You are clearly in the minority about ROTS being a bad film.
Anakin gave up his future for Padme, you must've missed that. Both Padme and Anakin knew the risk their marriage could have on their futures if it became public knowledge. There's lots of affection in the dialogue between Anakin and Padme in ROTS. There was even a cut scene where Anakin and Padme talk about the gender of their child. There's nothing Padme could've done about the Jedi Temple being attacked except cry in her apartment, but she did go all the way to Mustafar to see if her husband was safe, not some pish posh about turning a horse back to Rivendell and having a boring argument with Agent Smith. I don't see where you get off slagging off ROTS' romance, because Anakin's motives are completely driven by it and it works. To be honest, Aragorn seemed more interested in Legolas and Gimli than Arwen
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
I like Star Wars better. I think it's funny people are like, "don't you know what Star Wars really is? It's full of bad acting, bad writing, etc." when I'm pretty sure most who like the movies like it for those reasons. I know I do. To me, using those criticisms against Star Wars is like yelling at Stan Lee because he's not fucking Shakespeare. Star Wars is genuinely cheesy, but it has a lot of heart put into it. I think that's why I like Star Wars better. Plus it's just a much cooler universe, in my opinion. When there are bounty hunters like Boba Fett in LOTR, then someone can make an argument that LOTR is cooler.
And I would argue that not all the writing is bad. There's one movie, Empire Strikes Back, that had a lot of great writing thanks to Lawrence Kasdan... tons of personality in the dialogue.
And I would argue that not all the writing is bad. There's one movie, Empire Strikes Back, that had a lot of great writing thanks to Lawrence Kasdan... tons of personality in the dialogue.
galeninjapan
Banned
WTF!? since when did Star Was become cheesy and bad writing? Sure, its no Shakespeare but I think its not cheesy and has some great dialogue.
galeninjapan said:
...since the first movie?
(not to say that LOTR doesn't have its own faults. "Epic" doesn't necessarily have to mean "the main characters walk across mountains and plains for an hour and a half while subtly professing their undying love to one another," Mr. Jackson)
Son of Godzilla
Banned
LOTR is much more of a "watch once and never fucking again" series than SW is, so I'd go with SW. The only straight up bad SW movie is AotC, and I'm sure that there's two hours of boringness in LOTR I could live without.
ultimate geekfest here :lol
but seriously, I don't care what you think about the movies, anyone who claims that the Star Wars universe is in any way comparable to the LOTR one is fucking dense. The LOTR novels created the fantasy world as we know, Star Wars just ripped off '50s era pulp sci-fi (with lazer swords, dood!). The two aren't even anywhere close to being in the same league.
but seriously, I don't care what you think about the movies, anyone who claims that the Star Wars universe is in any way comparable to the LOTR one is fucking dense. The LOTR novels created the fantasy world as we know, Star Wars just ripped off '50s era pulp sci-fi (with lazer swords, dood!). The two aren't even anywhere close to being in the same league.
galeninjapan
Banned
Nerevar said:
Well the debate is between which is better movie, not what the source/universe is.
I only saw each LotR movie in the theater once. When it came to sitting there, I just hard a hard time with it. But I've watched them countless times at home because I'm usually doing something else or I walk around from time to time. They're great movies, but they're hard to watch for me if I'm forced to sit there for an extended period of time.MrCheez said:I'm surprised so many people find LOTR to be boring and not rewatchable.
They aren't boring to everyone, dammit!
Also, I think the general comment that SW is full of bad acting and bad writing is from the fact that many people proclaim them as the greatest movies of our generation, blah blah, when in reality, they're just some fun movies with some great effects. I've always said that the movies are fun and enjoyable, but the question was which series is "better". I look at that in terms of both quality and emotion, not just the latter. LotR pulls off the quality thing better and I'd say that I enjoy watching both series near equally (might sway to LotR, but that's a tough call).
Instigator
Banned
MrCheez said:I'm surprised so many people find LOTR to be boring and not rewatchable.
They aren't boring to everyone, dammit!
For one thing, they're long movies. And RotK just didn't know when it wanted to end. It just kept going and going and going...
I'd say sitting the first time through is unbearable because it seems to go on forever. If you rewatch it, you can finally see the light at the tunnel so it is easier.
Star Wars universe >>>>>>>>>>>>>> LOTR universe
Star Wars music > LOTR music
Lightsabers & blasters > swords and arrows
Sci-fi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wizards and dragons and such
I liked LOTR, but Star Wars is just on another level. I never really felt engaged in LOTR like I did at the end of Return of the Jedi, the Darth Maul duel, the order 66 scene, or any of the other really spectacular moments that both starwars trilogies have.
SW OT > SW PT > LOTR.
Star Wars music > LOTR music
Lightsabers & blasters > swords and arrows
Sci-fi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wizards and dragons and such
I liked LOTR, but Star Wars is just on another level. I never really felt engaged in LOTR like I did at the end of Return of the Jedi, the Darth Maul duel, the order 66 scene, or any of the other really spectacular moments that both starwars trilogies have.
SW OT > SW PT > LOTR.
Wendo said:
Though I disagree there are many good points in here.
I just think the overall storyline in Star Wars makes a more relavent point, rather than LOTR.
People can change, and turn to a life of crime though in their minds they see it justified for a good cause. But it's obvious that this life of Evil will remove you from the person you were, and you will hurt those you thought you were doing this for.
LOTR seemed like there was just tribulation after tribulation with the characters nearly staying the same throughout the whole series. There was no real lesson learned...you just watched a bunch of short people fluke their way into a good outcome.
I guess it's due to the nature of the books. They apparently go on and on and on, I get bored of that easily.
Plus in LOTR it centred around a few characters, while in Star Wars we got to see so many cool new ones (besides Jar Jar).
Obviously, this is a comparison between apples and oranges they both share certain exclusive strengths.
Prine said:
Ugh, don't encourage him. Comments like that belong nowhere in a discussion like this... that's just trolling. Let's grow up a little.
Fight for Freeform said:
There are plenty of 'morals' or meanings to be found in LOTR. =/
Everything that Gollum's character presents to the story, for example. (A lesson about pity)
Messages about hope.
The power of true friendship and loyalty (Sam to Frodo)
And of course: "Even the smallest person can change the course of the future"
Fight for Freeform said:
That's pretty much the entire theme of LOTR: power corrupts. The films are filled with people trying to get the power of the ring- many wrongly believing that they could "use it for good". In the end, even Frodo is unable to let it go.
The characters changed quite a bit. Just look at Merry and Pippin in ROTK in contrast to FOTR. Frodo changed quite a bit as well, as the ring really began to take hold of him.
Prine said:
He should be banned and so should you. There's no need for that shit and you're just as bad for encouraging it.
SA-X said:
There are a truck load of far better scenes than this throughout the LOTR trilogy. The absolute best of them is when Faramir in a vein attempt to somehow earn his fathers love leads a suicidal charge on osgiliath, this is juxtaposed with Denethor stuffing his face with food (couldn't care less basically) and Pippen singing a haunting piece in the background...really a fucking brilliant scene because it says so much without words and absolutely must be seen and understood to be appreciated. I personally consider it right up there with a similar scene in the Godfather, which is one of the greatest scenes ever put on film. Basically order 66 is a simple montage of Jedi being killed with John Williams music on top, a nice scene, but it doesn't touch some of the best in the LOTR trilogy. Another one is in Helms Deep when a guard is helping Theoden strap on his armour, the light is streaming through the window at dusk (orcs would be there by night so the scene is telling the viewer that they’re getting closer) and it looks more visually striking than anything in the Star Wars movies, either CG fest in the PT or anything in the OT.
If you want to compare scenes the above is just an example. The LOTR films are vastly superior in all aspects of film making, the acting is superior and the actors play their roles with a seriousness and realism that you would not expect from a fantasy film while in Star Wars the whole spectacle seems to be treated like a cartoon by many of them and many performances just come off as wooden and sometimes down right bad by actors that I know can act. The character development is vastly superior in LOTR, we see over the course of the three movies how characters like Frodo, Sam and Aragorn develop and change visibly on screen, in Star Wars Lucus takes a cop out and largely develops these characters between the movies. For example Luke ends up as an apprentice Jedi minus a hand and badly beaten by Vader at the end of Empire, suddenly at the beginning of Jedi Luke is this grand Jedi master, and while I can accept this as a means of pushing forward the story it is still pretty cheap how we are not told how he came to be so fucking good all of a sudden except that 'time has passed' between the movies. Finally the biggest discrepancy between the movies is in dialogue, in LOTR I like it because while it is unusual by modern standards it fits the characters and the world they inhabit very well and many great lines are spoken throughout the series, some lifted from the book and some adapted to screen. Star Wars needs no explanation as to its dialogue because it is just abysmal, throughout all six movies little is said to really engage the viewer in the Star Wars universe through dialogue (apart from just being there to back up the central themes of the story) and often times a lot of it is just corny and rubbish. Dialogue should be there to really draw the viewer into the story, not to just push the story out onto the viewer.
As I said before, the viewer becomes engaged in Star Wars through the story itself and not through the aforementioned aspects such as acting, character development and dialogue, yet if you want to talk about good films then they must have these aspects behind them and Star Wars simply does not. Star Wars has its interesting universe behind it which makes the films a fun and enjoyable ride, but provided you don't have the attention span of an ant you'd find a depth and complexity to LOTR all backed up by solid film making that Star Wars just DOES NOT touch. Not only that but the critics agree, and so do the general public and the only ones who don't seem to get it are those still hanging on to their little piece of childhood Star Wars nostalgia. As I said before, consider Star Wars your favourite movie series but don't consider it the better movie series because any real look and comparison of the merits of the two series as movies shows otherwise.
If we're talking pure quality of filmmaking then these movies aren't in the same league. Star Wars is fun and a great action/adventure ride with some cool characters and locations, but LotR is an epic of our time. The camera work, the action sequences, the characters, the ACTING, the music, the tone, and just the overall quality of the films dwarfs any Star Wars movie.
Empire Strikes Back is one of my favourite flicks of all time and I do prefer watching it to a LotR movie when I'm in the mood for a great adventure flick, but LotR stomps it in almost every way that is relevant to filmmaking.
Empire Strikes Back is one of my favourite flicks of all time and I do prefer watching it to a LotR movie when I'm in the mood for a great adventure flick, but LotR stomps it in almost every way that is relevant to filmmaking.
Son of Godzilla
Banned
You guys are forgetting something. TTT is a big pile of shit. Sure, it's marginally bearable in the extended edition, but the theatrical cut is overwhelmingly boring. And the big payoff battle................. sucks. Helm's Deep was drivel.
People should just pretend TTT and AOTC don't exist.
People should just pretend TTT and AOTC don't exist.
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