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STEAM | November 2014 - Ride of the Valkyries

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T

Turfster

Member
bobnowhere said:
New scam? To me at least.

Ky4vGkO.jpg


Link is a .scr file so Malware/virus I imagine.
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Not new (like, a few months(?) old), but yeah, never click anything from random strangers.
Hell, never click anything from people on your friends list either.
 
R

Rhaknar

The Steam equivalent of the drunk friend who keeps offering to pay your tab all night.
Tellaerin said:
...are you getting ready to bring back FemBoobs Laharl?
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next halloween only.

This War of Mine got locked huh? extra happy I got it now, game is amazing. easily going to sneak into my top 10 for this year
 
jshackles

jshackles

Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
zkylon said:
the way i see it valve should demand devs to set a release date and give them like 25% extra time if they go over it. delays are part of game development and a developer shouldn't go completely ruined if they go over a month or two. probably with a maximum time, say like 2 years or something, so nobody exploits this with like 10 years or something.

if it goes past the date then it's just out of steam. a fate as bad as giving back all the money you earned, really. giving all the money back sounds like a crazy logistics proposition, which is why i guess kickstarter hasn't done it either, but i don't know much about that. debatable, at least

but yeah, something like that
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My proposition of a "money back" scheme is really two-fold:
  • It increases buyer confidence - you're either getting "the finished game" or in a worst-case-scenario you get to try the game out for 6 months to a year and then get your money back.
  • It increases developer's accountability - right now developers can list very basic games with no custom assets and charge the same price as a fully developed game.
Logistically speaking it could be pretty easy - the developers don't get paid for the Early Access purchases until the game releases. Valve holds the customer's money in escrow.

If your counter-argument is "well, the developers need to eat too!" then I say this arrangement works out perfectly. Developers would still be required to do hold a significant amount of the financial burden of creating their game. The incentive for using "Steam Early Access"? They would get a significant number of players to test their game out before release (remember when companies had to pay for this privilege?) and the Early Access sales would basically be pre-orders - meaning they get a huge payday when their game is complete.

But that's just how I'd propose something like Early Access. Call me old-fashioned.
 
L

Lomax

Member
The_Super_Inframan said:
Endless Space was the first - 4 Jul, 2012, Don't Starve was almost a year later.

They sold an Alpha or Beta on Steam some month before the game was finished. As far as I know was this the first "early access" like game on Steam.
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Ah, didn't know that, though Don't Starve was only a few months later (Nov 2012). Don't Starve was the first one though being actively sold as an alpha and going through a substantial development cycle during that time. It was also the first game to get a major push from Valve as a "release" after having been available for sale for a while in unfinished form. It seems pretty clear the success of the Don't Starve development was what encouraged the Early Access program (that and DayZ).

According to what I can find, Endless Space was only in Beta on steam for a couple of months (May to July), and it was clearly listed as a pre-order at that time, not really a development purchase. Beta access was just considered a pre-order bonus, which is a pretty longstanding tradition that far pre-dates Steam.
 
B

bobnowhere

Member
Turfster said:
Not new (like, a few months(?) old), but yeah, never click anything from random strangers.
Hell, never click anything from people on your friends list either.
Click to expand...

I'd only seen the click on Steamcomnity.com obviously misspelled style links recently, not even sure why I didn't block the obvious scammer straight away! Every small bit of warning out there can only help.

ModBot said:
Instructions for participants:
I am giving away 2 Steam keys. To enter this giveaway, send a PM to ModBot with any subject line. In the body, copy and paste the entire line from the message below that corresponds to the game you want. (if you include more than one game, you will be blocked from entering). Confused? Watch this GIF tutorial or ask for help.

ModBot Basics:
- I really appreciate thank you messages, but please send them to me (bobnowhere, not ModBot!) via PM instead of in thread.
- Do not trade keys you win off-site to enrich yourself. Don't try to claim games you have no interest in collecting or playing. Don't claim games to give them to friends off-site.
- If the key is already taken you will not receive a reply. Replies may take a minute or two.


Murder Miners -- MB-2E06BB0149C5A0CB - Taken by Tesseract
Rush for Glory -- MB-F18B0B010B86DCFD - Taken by Maniac
Click to expand...
 
S

someguyinahat

Member
jshackles said:
But that's just how I'd propose something like Early Access. Call me old-fashioned.
Click to expand...

I like it. I think it would work well for multiplayer games, but if any developer has the gall to put a single-player game on early access they'd likely be boned with all those players getting as far as they can and then demanding their money back.
 
jshackles

jshackles

Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
someguyinahat said:
I like it. I think it would work well for multiplayer games, but if any developer has the gall to put a single-player game on early access they'd likely be boned with all those players getting as far as they can and then demanding their money back.
Click to expand...

In my hypothetical (aka "makes sense") Early Access revamp rules, refunds would work the same way as they do now - you don't get one. The only way you would be entitled to a refund is if the developer fails to deliver a finished game on time.
 
Z

zkylon

zkylewd
jshackles said:
My proposition of a "money back" scheme is really two-fold:
  • It increases buyer confidence - you're either getting "the finished game" or in a worst-case-scenario you get to try the game out for 6 months to a year and then get your money back.
  • It increases developer's accountability - right now developers can list very basic games with no custom assets and charge the same price as a fully developed game.
Logistically speaking it could be pretty easy - the developers don't get paid for the Early Access purchases until the game releases. Valve holds the customer's money in escrow.

If your counter-argument is "well, the developers need to eat too!" then I say this arrangement works out perfectly. Developers would still be required to do hold a significant amount of the financial burden of creating their game. The incentive for using "Steam Early Access"? They would get a significant number of players to test their game out before release (remember when companies had to pay for this privilege?) and the Early Access sales would basically be pre-orders - meaning they get a huge payday when their game is complete.

But that's just how I'd propose something like Early Access. Call me old-fashioned.
Click to expand...

i don't think that's really useful, it puts indie devs in a world of risk for very little gain

like in that case i'd just rather not put it on early access at all

or just do it for like a month earlier to get some free bugtesting but by then it's too late to make any gameplay changes that would come up from playtesting
 
G

Grief.exe

Member
Grab those Majesco games while you can (Bloodrayne, Advent Rising).

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-11-17-majesco-and-midnight-city-are-in-dire-straits

"We have suffered losses that raise substantial doubt about our ability to continue as a going concern," Majesco said of the quarter ending 31st July 2014 in an SEC filing (via Yahoo Finance) posted on 6th November. "Accordingly, we are evaluating various alternatives, including reducing operating expenses and personnel costs, securing additional financing for future business activities, and other strategic alternatives including a sale or merger of our company."
Click to expand...
 
C

Chairmanchuck

Member
jshackles said:
In my hypothetical (aka "makes sense") Early Access revamp rules, refunds would work the same way as they do now - you don't get one. The only way you would be entitled to a refund is if the developer fails to deliver a finished game on time.
Click to expand...

But what would be considered as finished?

Like Paranautical Activity promised a MP-mode, that was cut. Would that be considered finished?
 
F

freshVeggie

Member
Shadownet said:
I really like white hair since I'm a big fan of Geralt from The Witcher.
Click to expand...
Is that a pre-made face or did you model it? Looks like a male model, hah.
Take notes Jawmuncher.

Phawx said:
Hey fellas, I just got Satellite Reign in, would anyone would be interested in me streaming it?
Click to expand...
Never heard of it and google it. Landed on its homepage here.
Looks interesting. Are you a backer and got an early build?

Anyway, please stream it as there is no real gameplay video on their page and I am curious how the game is actually. Just don't forget to save your stream for when I can watch it tomorrow, please.
 
R

Rhaknar

The Steam equivalent of the drunk friend who keeps offering to pay your tab all night.
freshVeggie said:
Is that a pre-made face or did you model it? Looks like a male model, hah.
Take notes Jawmuncher.
Click to expand...

Munch only plays ladies, like real men do. Wait...

edit: oops double post. oh well, fuck it. I regret nothing
 
Phawx

Phawx

Member
Had to end the stream right now. I only have one monitor so I was trying to watch both at the same time. Was the stream janky for you guys as well?

I'll throw up a stream again soon but I feel like I should at least learn why hacking seems to be doing squat-all. Also when I took control of the camera, it was stuck on manual.

Probs put up another stream in a hour or so.
 
jshackles

jshackles

Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
zkylon said:
i don't think that's really useful, it puts indie devs in a world of risk for very little gain

like in that case i'd just rather not put it on early access at all

or just do it for like a month earlier to get some free bugtesting but by then it's too late to make any gameplay changes that would come up from playtesting
Click to expand...

In my personal opinion, devs have been getting away with murder for the past few years when it comes to Early Access. If you're making a game, and you don't have a clear completion date or feature set in mind, then you don't have any business charging customers for "what could be". Obviously, given the rate at which Early Access games are being completed - consumers are being fleeced. In my opinion, Valve needs to step in.

The nature of any business is a careful evaluation of risk vs reward. Making games shouldn't be a magical gravy train that lets game developers get paid to do nothing.

Chairmanchuck said:
But what would be considered as finished?

Like Paranautical Activity promised a MP-mode, that was cut. Would that be considered finished?
Click to expand...

Again this is all hypothetical, but if Valve adopted this kind of policy they would make a significant amount of money holding these Early Access "pre-order" monies in escrow. Certainly enough to pay a small team of developers / experienced playtesters to evaluate each game and hold it to a certain set of criteria before it can be "released".
 
G

Gvaz

Banned
I just want to say 2k's support is utter shit. I got a free code for season pass of the prequel borderlands and the email never came through so I contacted support. They'd take a minimum of a week between replies in that it took a fucking month for my code.

I work in tech support myself so that's unacceptable.
 
F

freshVeggie

Member
Phawx said:
Had to end the stream right now. I only have one monitor so I was trying to watch both at the same time. Was the stream janky for you guys as well?

I'll throw up a stream again soon but I feel like I should at least learn why hacking seems to be doing squat-all. Also when I took control of the camera, it was stuck on manual.

Probs put up another stream in a hour or so.
Click to expand...
It was stuttering and buffering constantly for me. Germany here.
Looking forward to your stream then.
 
C

Chairmanchuck

Member
jshackles said:
Again this is all hypothetical, but if Valve adopted this kind of policy they would make a significant amount of money holding these Early Access "pre-order" monies in escrow. Certainly enough to pay a small team of developers / experienced playtesters to evaluate each game and hold it to a certain set of criteria before it can be "released".
Click to expand...

But we are talking about Valve. They are a billion $ company and cant even fix some bugs in the client, do what they planned with the Trading cards, had 2 people in charge for GL, cant support popular fileformats for their musicplayer etc.

I mean as much as I like Steam it seems they could just employ some people that will take care of all these things, but they dont.

Its actually kinda sad when you see that the communication with the community in TF2, Dota 2 and CS:Go works, but regarding everything else it kinda sucks. I mean its almost one and a half year ago that Gaben said the GL system is broken and they are working on a new solution. Why not tell the community that they are still doing that?
Why not tell devs and publishers how the new Greenlight system works after August?
Why not say if they still wanna do some binders and more seasons for trading cards?
 
S

Shadownet

Banned
I modeled it. It's nice that graphic have made such a big improvement. Trying to make a good looking male character was a bit hard in Dragon Age Origins.
 
jshackles

jshackles

Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
Chairmanchuck said:
But we are talking about Valve. They are a billion $ company and cant even fix some bugs in the client, do what they planned with the Trading cards, had 2 people in charge for GL, cant support popular fileformats for their musicplayer etc.

I mean as much as I like Steam it seems they could just employ some people that will take care of all these things, but they dont.

Its actually kinda sad when you see that the communication with the community in TF2, Dota 2 and CS:Go works, but regarding everything else it kinda sucks. I mean its almost one and a half year ago that Gaben said the GL system is broken and they are working on a new solution. Why not tell the community that they are still doing that?
Why not tell devs and publishers how the new Greenlight system works after August?
Why not say if they still wanna do some binders and more seasons for trading cards?
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more. While it's impressive that they've done what they've done with about 300 people - it's time for their company to grow up a little. I'm obviously going to be the first person to agree with you that Valve needs to start hiring people to make these sorts of things happen. They seem to be quite stubborn, unfortunately.
 
C

Chairmanchuck

Member
jshackles said:
I couldn't agree more. While it's impressive that they've done what they've done with about 300 people - it's time for their company to grow up a little. I'm obviously going to be the first person to agree with you that Valve needs to start hiring people to make these sorts of things happen. They seem to be quite stubborn, unfortunately.
Click to expand...

But to me it seems at least during 2005-2010 Valve was a bit more talkative about their whole plan/Steam in general.
Right now i feels like they dont want to talk about anything at all. It is strange we know more about the VR-stuff they showed lately than what will happen to Greenlight or what happened after August.

Just makes me kinda sad, since I remember Valve to not be like that and actually be really close to the community. Heck, I even got an signed poster by Gaben after I wrote him an email and got a nice response by him + the poster.
 
S

SteveWinwood

Member
Chairmanchuck said:
But to me it seems at least during 2005-2010 Valve was a bit more talkative about their whole plan/Steam in general.
Right now i feels like they dont want to talk about anything at all. It is strange we know more about the VR-stuff they showed lately than what will happen to Greenlight or what happened after August.

Just makes me kinda sad, since I remember Valve to not be like that and actually be really close to the community. Heck, I even got an signed poster by Gaben after I wrote him an email and got a nice response by him + the poster.
Click to expand...
They were more talkative. They said they learned that people were less pissed at them if they said nothing at all, rather than talk about something that would not come to fruition.

Congrats fans. You did this.
 
Phawx

Phawx

Member
freshVeggie said:
It was stuttering and buffering constantly for me. Germany here.
Looking forward to your stream then.
Click to expand...

I'm hoping I can fix this. Right now I'm using the forked build of OBS to support AMD's VCE (for my R9 290), the alternative is that I just use CPU encoding but that would probably make it worse.
 
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