Support NeoGAF

[CheesecakeRecipe]

It makes sense - I see people getting duped all the time trading for games purchased by credit card scammers. This should prevent games being traded away and later revoked which (although it never happened to me personally) I guess is a real hassle for a lot of people. This is just another "we have to do this to protect people from themselves" for those users who think you really can get that copy of Day Z for 2 keys.

It'll be interesting to see what effect this has on TF2 key trading.

It's a heavy-handed solution to the problem. I am not too big of a fan of removing and limiting people based on what the lower end userbase too often falls for. This is going to murder pacing for traders during sales.

This also doesn't seem to cover the idea of gifting the game to someone - they can still just as easily do a chargeback to fuck you.

 

[salazar547]

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/tradingcards#announcements/detail/163582965920702191



Welp...

and just before the sales , what a coincidence :v

 

[Servizio]

We wouldn't have this problem if Steam replaced all world governments and currencies.

 

[Atraveller]

Yep. It also means that games with short pre-order windows won't be available from cross-region traders on a game's release date, although ACRTAG being enabled by default pretty much already shattered that dream.

Perhaps some traders are willing to straight gift users with high positive ratings.

 

[yuraya]

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/tradingcards#announcements/detail/163582965920702191



Welp...

NOOOOOOO


VALVE...........

 

[Ozium]

Gabe Newell = Andrew Wilson

 

[jshackles]

Yeah, I think this is partially protecting people from themselves, and partially protecting support from their stupid tickets

Still, this hasn't done anything to plug the reliable russian connections you just paypal money to... or scammers that ask for keys to be sent first, and then don't actually gift the game afterwards.

Yeah it will definitely open up a new scamming avenue as people are told "Due to the new rules in place by Steam, you need to send me the keys first..." or "Due to the new rules in place by Steam, you need to Paypal me the money first..." and then not delivering.

Of course like all scams, you have to be careful not to fall for it. As it becomes more prevalent (and it will) I can see most "casual" traders losing faith in the system completely.

 

[Kurt Russell]

Great, I had just bought keys to prepare for the sale

I don't think this is a good idea, as a lot of people will start trading the old fashioned way (before Valve added the trading system) and gift the game in exchange for the keys or whatever they want. That will be even worse for the people who could be scammed, though I guess that Valve won't have to deal with so many Support requests, since that kind of trading isn't supported.

 

[paperspace]

More scams incoming. Good luck with the support tickets, Valve!

 

[salazar547]

so now i guess the trades will be like when i try to get humble bundle stuff from steamtrades , i give the key then i get the game , i guess i will have to be more careful from now on

 

[Hero Prinny]

NOOOOOOO


VALVE...........

this.

 

[jshackles]

More scams incoming. Good luck with the support tickets, Valve!

I assume this is why they have you literally confirm the trade a second time if you're sending an item without getting anything in return. My guess is that the official support stance in this instance is: "Sorry that you fucked up, please be more careful in the future".

 

[swx]

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/tradingcards#announcements/detail/163582965920702191



Welp...

GABENN NOOOOOO

 

[BinaryPork2737]

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/tradingcards#announcements/detail/163582965920702191

Welp...

Better experience, my ass.

Thanks Volvo.

Edit: It's a sad day when that post has 394 thumbs up.

 

[zkylon]

i picture russian traders hiding in back alleys being chased and beaten by the combine

 

[Lomax]

Honestly the only thing surprising about Valve closing these loopholes for cross-region sales is that they didn't do it all sooner. In a way it's a good sign, if digital sales are big enough now that publishers care about these things, it hopefully means more releases.

 

[Hero Prinny]

So... has valve ever taken back a policy cause enough people were bitching about it? I know they won't revert this since they're becoming more assy by the day when it deals with cross region trading but I'm just curious.

 

[Parsnip]

I never followed the whole key trading thing, was the idea that trades are safer because they can be reversed? Just always seemed like a hassle to me, so instead it made more sense to pick a good reputation trader and use paypal.

 

[Coreda]

I've never traded games only gifted them, what is different about the new policies compared to the previous? Was the system about trading in-game keys for games?

 

[CheesecakeRecipe]

So... has valve ever taken back a policy cause enough people were bitching about it? I know they won't revert this since they're becoming more assy by the day when it deals with cross region trading but I'm just curious.

They have adjusted multiple policies due to large enough community backlash. I'd like to think they thought this one through enough to realize what they were doing, but we'll have to wait and see how they take to the reaction.

 

[Turfster]

I've never traded games only gifted them, what is different about the new policies compared to the previous?

For you, nothing.
It's only when you try to use games in the trading interface that they have to have been in your inventory 30 days now.

 

[didamangi]

Oh man, was expecting to get a lot of moolah from trading with the upcoming sale as well )

I guess there's one too many regions with cheap prices for Valve/Developers to finally take action.

 

[Kurt Russell]

I never followed the whole key trading thing, was the idea that trades are safer because they can be reversed? Just always seemed like a hassle to me, so instead it made more sense to pick a good reputation trader and use paypal.

Key trading had advantages for people like me for example, I live in Argentina and can't gift money via Paypal, which is a requirement for almost every paypal trader I've seen. With key trading I only had to buy the keys, be it from TF2 itself or from a grey market seller who accepted Paypal as goods or services (which isn't as difficult as finding a game trader who accepts goods or services payments)

There's also the advantage of knowing that if the games had any issues with payment Valve could reverse the trade, just like you said.

 

[Phawx]

Got review code for Geometry Wars 3.

Spoiler

Find out it's pre-order code Now to wait for 16 hours

 

[iosefe]

Got review code for Geometry Wars 3.

Spoiler

Find out it's pre-order code Now to wait for 16 hours

worth the wait though hopefully

 

[Locust]

"To combat fraud everyone now has to trade outside trade window so we don't have to serve support tickets. Have fun and stay safe!"

 

[Turfster]

Got review code for Geometry Wars 3.

Spoiler

Find out it's pre-order code Now to wait for 16 hours

I wish people sent me preorder codes for games! =p
(not going to happen, I suck at games, remember)

 

[Blak_Status]

Fuck Valve... that is all

 

[Parsnip]

Key trading had advantages for people like me for example, I live in Argentina and can't gift money via Paypal, which is a requirement for almost every paypal trader I've seen. With key trading I only had to buy the keys, be it from TF2 itself or from a grey market seller who accepted Paypal as goods or services (which isn't as difficult as finding a game trader who accepts goods or services payments)

There's also the advantage of knowing that if the games had any issues with payment Valve could reverse the trade, just like you said.

Oh, well. That's an unfortunate policy change then.

 

[jshackles]

It's interesting seeing the reaction to this being so heated. Most people are suggesting using intermediary traders - both persons gift the middle-man the items, then the middle-man gifts the items across to both parties.

This is a super-risky proposition though. I expect to see a lot of new scams pop up out of this change - be careful out there everyone!

 

[Kurt Russell]

It's interesting seeing the reaction to this being so heated. Most people are suggesting using intermediary traders - both persons gift the middle-man the items, then the middle-man gifts the items across to both parties.

This is a super-risky proposition though. I expect to see a lot of new scams pop up out of this change - be careful out there everyone!

It wouldn't fix the possibility of a chargeback anyway.
I guess that people can still "trade" with known traders using the old method, but this wasn't necessary at all, and will cause a lot of trouble.

 

[someguyinahat]

This is a super-risky proposition though.

I'll say. In other news, if anyone wants to trade a copy of Valkyria Chronicles for something, I'll happily be your middleman! Just gift it to me, make sure the intended recipient also has something good to gift me as well, and then um...stuff may or may not happen? I'm new at this, cut me some slack!

 

[autoduelist]

Have any games come out that are 'evolutions' of FTL? Like, FTL in a dungeon, or whatever. Definitely doesn't need to be exactly the same, but i really enjoyed FTL's take on rougelikes.

 

[Locust]

They could've just prevented gifting games directly to people that you haven't been friends with for over 30 days, that would slow down Kinguin (which is the biggest problem Valve has with trading, I think) a lot because all sales would have to be done manually. But I guess that makes too much sense.

People carding CS:GO gifts has been a huge problem too but I'm not sure if this prevents that at all, only reduces the support workload because they don't have to serve the tickets.

 

[jblank83]

Watch Dogs Wii U released in one of the biggest release weeks of the year, 6 months late and at full price, and in the face of months of criticism of its technical and design quality. It was released straight up against Smash, as well.

Might as well have buried it in an unmarked grave.

 

[Hero Prinny]

They have adjusted multiple policies due to large enough community backlash. I'd like to think they thought this one through enough to realize what they were doing, but we'll have to wait and see how they take to the reaction.

...

#believe

 

[someguyinahat]

They could've just prevented gifting games directly to people that you haven't been friends with for over 30 days, that would slow down Kinguin (which is the biggest problem Valve has with trading, I think) a lot because all sales would have to be done manually.

But I guess that makes too much sense.

I wouldn't be a fan of that idea. Suppose you had a friend who just got a gaming PC. You want to introduce him to Steam and get him started by adding him to your list and giving him a game. By that rule it would take a damn month.

 

[mrgone]

Have any games come out that are 'evolutions' of FTL? Like, FTL in a dungeon, or whatever. Definitely doesn't need to be exactly the same, but i really enjoyed FTL's take on rougelikes.

Convoy looks pretty neat, though it's still one of those Shrodinger's games (Kickstarter)

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1248554329/convoy-a-tactical-roguelike-like

 

[Turfster]

Have any games come out that are 'evolutions' of FTL? Like, FTL in a dungeon, or whatever. Definitely doesn't need to be exactly the same, but i really enjoyed FTL's take on rougelikes.

There's the steampunk wasteland train one.
Also, rogue

Edit: ^

 

[Kurt Russell]

...

#believe

Even if they change it (which I doubt, knowing how Valve has acted in the past) it will probably be too late for people who wanted to take advantage of trading for the incoming sales.

Oh Gaben, why hast thou forsaken us?

 

[jshackles]

I wouldn't be a fan of that idea. Suppose you had a friend who just got a gaming PC. You want to introduce him to Steam and get him started by adding him to your list and giving him a game. By that rule it would take a damn month.

Well, as long as you weren't trading it with him (only gifting) you'd still be fine in that instance.

Locust's idea makes sense as a sort of exception to the new ruling. Like either you have to wait 30 days to trade, or you have to trade it with someone whom you've been friends with for 30 days or more.

However, it would still introduce the possibility of chargebacks and "unfair" game revocation, so my guess is they won't go for something like that since that's exactly what they're trying to eliminate.

 

[Rhaknar]

-trading used to bypass regional pricing

-people surprised its being changed.

 

[Hero Prinny]

Well, as long as you weren't trading it with him (only gifting) you'd still be fine in that instance.

Locust's idea makes sense as a sort of exception to the new ruling. Like either you have to wait 30 days to trade, or you have to trade it with someone whom you've been friends with for 30 days or more.

However, it would still introduce the possibility of chargebacks and "unfair" game revokation, so my guess is they won't go for something like that since that's exactly what they're trying to eliminate.

I'd be fine with this. why couldn't you just do this valve, why you got to make everything more difficult?

 

[NightmareTrigger]

It's interesting seeing the reaction to this being so heated. Most people are suggesting using intermediary traders - both persons gift the middle-man the items, then the middle-man gifts the items across to both parties.

This is a super-risky proposition though. I expect to see a lot of new scams pop up out of this change - be careful out there everyone!

In completely unrelated news, NightmareTrigger's MiddleMan™ Service is now open for business! I find people that want what you have and have what you want!

 

[darkchewie]

Have any games come out that are 'evolutions' of FTL? Like, FTL in a dungeon, or whatever. Definitely doesn't need to be exactly the same, but i really enjoyed FTL's take on rougelikes.

I know this isn't on Steam nor a deviation from FTL, but have you ever tried Star Command on Android / iOS? It is practically FTL but in an isometric view.

(Image links to the Star Command trailer)

It is quite fun, though easier than FTL, and was one of Amazon's FAOTD a while back. There were discussions about bringing it to Steam through Greenlight for a few years, but I don't think anything came of it.

 

[Locust]

I wouldn't be a fan of that idea. Suppose you had a friend who just got a gaming PC. You want to introduce him to Steam and get him started by adding him to your list and giving him a game. By that rule it would take a damn month.

Trading would be unrestricted.

e:beaten by jshackles

 

[Casimir]

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/tradingcards#announcements/detail/163582965920702191



Welp...

This is a reasonable solution that solves the issues end users, content prividers, and valve as an intermediary have to contend with.

 

[MUnited83]

-trading used to bypass regional pricing

-people surprised its being changed.

- non regional pricing trades are also restricted

- bypassing regional pricing still possible, just need to wait 30 days.




I do find that the excuse Valve gave is "because of chargebacks". 1 month is not enough to prevent chargebacks.It will somewhat limit them, sure, but chargeback scammers can do the chargeback quite easily in up to 6 months, depending on the payment service.

This is a reasonable solution that solves the issues end users, content prividers, and valve as an intermediary have to contend with.

It does not.

 

[lashman]

Ubisoft found a 'no more post-release embargo' loophole for The Crew

 

[Servizio]

I know this isn't on Steam nor a deviation from FTL, but have you ever tried Star Command on Android / iOS? It is practically FTL but in an isometric view.



(Image links to the Star Command trailer)

It is quite fun, though easier than FTL, and was one of Amazon's FAOTD a while back. There were discussions about bringing it to Steam through Greenlight for a few years, but I don't think anything came of it.

I Kickstarted this oh so many years ago, the PC version has been in development for quite awhile. They just recently released the ship building tool for people to mess around with.