Your answer can be found here
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=215927103&highlight=#post215927103
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
STEAM | September 2016 - Good job doing previous stuff, let's do new stuff
- Thread starter MRORANGE
- Start date
- Status
Your answer can be found here
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=215927103&highlight=#post215927103
Wok
Member
I am curious about your background whenever I read a post of yours made of well-structured well-referenced rationally articulated sentences that actually make a lot of sense without hurting the feelings of the reader. Anyway...
CecilRousso
Member
I think it's great that Minecraft has ushered in an era where people buy games that are being developed and get free updates later. I think that's really great. But a bad side effect of this is people becoming conditioned to think that games should be updated indefinitely and that they have been stolen from if they are not--the idea that the initial $20 purchase price means that for as long as you want, and maybe ever longer, the game should be updated. There are people who complain that TF2 doesn't get enough support. There are people who complain that Minecraft doesn't get enough support. I would think more players would be able to look at their $20 upfront cost and their 581 hours played and say "Yeah, okay, I feel like the developer probably isn't a greedy asshole if he considers that his duty to me as a consumer has been faithfully executed". Sometimes this manifests itself as the Cult of 1.0, where there is little connection between how advanced the game is and whether the consumer is going to stop yelling until the game is 1.0. This sends a powerful signal to actual scammer developers to just do a 1.0 release even if the game isn't ready--you might get some bad reviews if you do this, but you can move on with your life instead of trying to negotiate with consumer terrorists. If ARK had dropped the early access label, said "this is our 1.0 product, we've got 3 million customers on PC and millions more on consoles and they love our game. This is not the end for updates though, stay tuned", waited 3 months, and launched DLC, there'd be significantly less whining because the labels are different even though the content isn't. And frankly, ARK is 1.0-ready.
Let's look at the people really mad that ARK has added new content to pay for, going by Steam's most helpful reviews in the last 30 days:
426 hours
987 hours
134 hours
1843 hours
715 hours
446 hours
865 hours
611 hours
301 hours
50 hours
Who among these people has not gotten their money's worth? They've paid more in electricity for the game than they have paid for the game, I think they should probably firebomb their local power authority instead of the developer. (Unless they don't pay rent? I'm not judging). Suppose you don't want to buy the paid expansion? Great. You can either keep playing the base game, or you can give up the base game. If you're having an anxiety attack because you paid $20 for something a year ago, used it for 400 hours, and now don't want to use it anymore, go to a doctor, not a review section. Asking other people to upvote your epic rant to coddle your hurt feelings is childish.
You know how the business model works in other forms of software? You pay $20 a month for something. It gets updated once a year, give or take. Then one day you get an email saying "Thank you but we're closing in 7 days" and if you're lucky you can export your data and if not, well, you're fucked. Am I arguing that's how developers should treat people? No, absolutely not. SaaS is a menace. But my point is that we can observe the actual harm commensurate with really being screwed over. And that harm is... negligible. And that's when you actually get screwed over, not when you're just having a FOMO attack for no reason.
On reddit, a thread got mad that... imagine this, the developer took money from game X... and used it to build game Y... to sell to customers of game X. They thought this generic analogy, removing the context, actually enhanced the argument. Except that this is how you actually build a sustainable business. Reinvesting all your profits from a game in the same game ensures that when you hit audience saturation, you have no ability to continue to exist as a company. It also ensures that when you inevitably do something that causes the al-Aqsa Martyr's Brigade to suicide review-bomb your game, you have no capacity to address what they're saying. Being cautious and spreading your risk and seeking new income sources as a company is a good idea. This is actually how game developers work. If you can only invest money from project X into project X then you'll always have to beg for handouts whenever you start a new project, and you'll probably go bankrupt the second you have a project people don't like.
Others went back and, as is predictable at this point, rounded up every claim the developer ever made about features to throw it back in their face. You said you'd try to implement X! And Y! and Z! And look, they're not implemented? Look, should developers lie? No, developers should not lie. Should consumers be right to be disappointed if the final product is materially different than what was essentially promised? Yes, of course. But holding a developer at gunpoint with every word they've ever said with no flexibility about implementation, game testing, or fun is crazy. "You Said You'd Implement Hovercraft." "We tried, but internal playtesters found that they weren't very fun and were confusing to use "Fuck You, You're Worse Than Pol Pot And Hitler Combined, But Only Half As Bad As Sean Murray. When Aliens Come To Our Planet They Will Nuke Our Cities Because No Man's Sky Doesn't Have Variable Gravity." Like, come on. Part of these iterative development games is that not every idea makes it in. You don't buy them for the promise of any one specific bullet-point. And you might be disappointed that any one feature doesn't make it, but your disappointment doesn't make it reasonable that you carry a grudge for years about a product you otherwise enjoy and play for hundreds of hours.
There's also a strong component of motivated reasoning. Motivated reasoning is when a smart, rational person makes an impulsive, emotional decision, and because they know they look like an idiot, they justify their outburst with reference to rational facts. So, for example, climate change deniers who are otherwise smart and educated. They would make you think that they looked at the scientific evidence and decided climate change is not real. What they actually did was had an emotional response to climate change based on the fact that they were in the "Climate Change Isn't Real" tribe politically, then because you need evidence, hoovered up any evidence that confirmed the stance they just took emotionally, and then say that evidence is what led them to it. It's not just people who are factually incorrect that do this. You see it with console purchase rationalizations on GAF. Everyone does it. You see it all the time when someone is making some argument and all their evidence is just the first things that come up on Google when you search "Evidence for <x>" or "Evidence against <x>". They chose their position, and then backfilled the evidence.
Why does that apply here? Let's take No Man's Sky. When someone says "I bought the game because of the multiplayer features", it sounds like their grievance is justified. But did they really spend $60 on a game at launch for a feature that gave you a one in a million chance of non-interactively running into another player for a fleeting moment? A feature that is basically like Journey's multiplayer, only even less likely to run into anyone, and even less interactive? Did they really buy the game for any number of the LYING!!!!!! features? Did they really buy the game for one specific creature with a long neck visible in a trailer? No, no, I don't think so. I think what happened is that basically they made a broad emotional decision to get caught up in the spectacle of the game, they played the game, the game itself is fairly shallow--let me note that even if all of the proposed features made it in it would still be a shallow game--and then finding the game boring, the consumer feels disappointed and ripped off. So far, so reasonable. And then the motivated reasoning happens. Why did I buy something that I find boring? Well, I must have been mislead. What was I mislead about? Well, the trailers had the long necked dinosaur, variable gravity, and in this interview I thought I'd get to meet other players.
Let me suggest an alternative tack. Instead of going hyper-nuclear about how the developers scammed and lied to you, why not do the following: Acknowledge that you bought a game you didn't like because it was boring. Try to get a refund if you can, and if you can't then eat the loss (or resell or trade if you have the console version). Make a mental note for better judgment pre-release for future titles--maybe don't buy a game on day one? Don't pre-order? Don't obsessively F5 hype? Don't go on fucking media blackouts and instead use media information to research your purchases? Like, it's possible to go see a bad movie and think "Wow, the trailers made it out to be good, but it was bad, that sucks, I feel ripped off" without going ballistic about how the movie studio lied and mislead you and there should be a congressional investigation. The same thing is true for a game. It's definitely a painful lesson, especially if you're a kid with limited money (I got a Virtual Boy for a birthday once, I feel your pain) but harness that disappointment productively by teaching yourself how to avoid future mistakes instead of taking up a pitchfork. It's not victim blaming -- and let's as an aside note that taking a concept developed to talk about women being raped and applying it to you maybe regretting buying a video game is exceptionally disproportionate -- it's a recognition that disappointment can be a lesson to learn.
This has departed a bit from ARK. What I think happened with ARK is that people have this angry anxiety, FOMO (fear of missing out), often connected to personal depression or lack of real-world personal support, where they overidentify emotionally with things they buy. They want to be the #1 fan. They want to know everything. They want to buy everything. They want control. And they have very little ability to express these emotions. And they're largely smart, rational people, who fall victim to motivated reasoning. These developers announce this paid DLC. It rubs them the wrong way, emotionally. The anxiety kicks in. Why do I not get this content? I've played 800 hours, I'm a fan, I invested in this, you have wronged me. The motivated reasoning kicks in, NO DAY ONE DLC CONSUMER RIGHTS NO DRM EARLY ACCESS FRAUDS. Lacking a useful outlet, they lash out through review bombing, spamming the dev, abusive comments, etc.
The short version? Chill the fuck out, and if your money means that much to you, apply that standard to initial purchases instead of losing your shit after it's already gone because you can't get it back.
Great post. Chill the fuck out is something a lot of gamers should print, frame and put up on the wall behind their monitor.
So, this
'Check the box next to "Enable extension developer features".'
Does not exist on Edge for me. What am I doing wrong?
Wok
Member
Damn, it is me. I would not have expected that post to hit me in the face!
I always thought NMS would be the flop of the year, with people being disappointed like I was by Eingana 15 years ago. Then the week prior to the release, I read every possible review about NMS, watched every Youtube video, skimmed through threads on NeoGAF. And on the day of the release, I preordered because I was so obsessed with the game that I needed to know. I have no regret about my purchase, I got what I expected: Pokemon Snap in space. Yet I discovered the dark side of the force: the obsession of the gamer who wants to experience every game...
Edit: Owlboy can be preordered on GOG already. The train never stops.
Tyranny PAX panel starting now: https://www.twitch.tv/paradoxinteractive
freshVeggie
Member
Happy birthday.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Wok
Member
Ow, boy, my wallet!
AbundantChoice
Member
Finally got my GTX 1080 FTW from EVGA installed and running. Holy cow the ACX cooling on this thing is so much better than the stock card cooling; the card is damn near silent 100% of the time.
freshVeggie
Member
Wok
Member
Humble burnt?
morningbus
Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
At least they're giving you an incentive to preorder.
Crimsonclaw111
Member
Good to hear, looking at a couple 1070s and will also probably go with EVGA.
electroflame
Member
EVGA's great, I've gone with them exclusively for going on 6 years now (starting with a GTX 480, I think).
They've been great every time. Their 1080 looks nice, so it'll probably be the one I go with when the time comes.
Crimsonclaw111
Member
Honestly I'm just worried about RMAs if needed and would rather deal with a US company than say, Taiwan. Currently rocking an MSI 770.
I had a GTX 690 for 3-4 years and I didn't found out that it was a Founder's Edition until I replaced it with my current Strix 1080 OC Edition. Holy cow, the noise difference and the mhz boost is insane.
Since I found out this I will never get a Founders/Reference edition of a GPU ever again.
I'm pretty sure I've mentioned this here before, but having just gone back to playing Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning, I have to say it's an underrated gem. Really one of the better action-RPG's I've played. Combat's fun and diverse, supported by diverse skill trees and a good crafting system, and I love the stylized, colorful artstyle. The story isn't knock-your-socks-off amazing, but it's been entertaining enough to hold my interest, and the setting's neat (haven't seen many other games draw this heavily on Celtic folklore as an inspiration). Shame that we won't see a sequel, because I would've loved to have seen what they would've done as an encore.
derExperte
Member
Didn't you win a 1080 a few months ago from AW?
Also there are better manufacturers with better coolers than EVGA.
electroflame
Member
Luckily, I haven't had to do an RMA or anything, but when I've had to get ahold of their support in the past they've been really nice and responsive.
Given that their warranty is one of, if not the best-in-class I always feel better using their parts. The horror stories from MSI/ASUS/Gigabyte, etc. are all enough to steer me away from their PC components, even if they're cheaper. I just see the price difference as paying for a better warranty/support system.
I did, but I have no idea when or if it's coming. I've been trying to figure out what's going on, but I haven't heard back in 6 weeks (which, that update was "we're not sure"). At this point, I'm probably just going to get something else and sell that if/when it comes in (it's a reference cooler anyway). I've already been waiting for ~4 months or so, so I'm pretty much over it (even though it's free, and I appreciate it, a quick update on what's going on isn't too much to ask for, surely?).
Backlogger
Member
Sorry in advance if one of these Superfight keys don't work
ModBot said:Instructions for participants:
I am giving away 4 Steam keys. To enter this giveaway, send a PM to ModBot with any subject line. In the body, copy and paste the entire line from the message below that corresponds to the game you want. (if you include more than one game, you will be blocked from entering). Confused? Watch this GIF tutorial or ask for help.
Want to make your own ModBot giveaway? Click here for a quick tutorial thread. Please give generously.
ModBot Basics:
- I really appreciate thank you messages, but please send them to me (Backlogger, not ModBot!) via PM instead of in thread.
- Do not trade keys you win off-site to enrich yourself. Don't try to claim games you have no interest in collecting or playing. Don't claim games to give them to friends off-site.
- If the key is already taken you will not receive a reply. Replies may take a minute or two.
Rules for this Giveaway:
- If you are a lurker you are not eligible for this giveaway. You need five or more posts in either the current Steam thread or the previous one to be eligible
SUPERFIGHT --MB-05EFAFAF421FA921- Taken by ussjtrunks
SUPERFIGHT #2 --MB-30304EA5DA6F01EB- Taken by electroflame
SUPERFIGHT #3 --MB-17C8859EF683F861- Taken by Knurek
Space Question Collection --MB-BB17995F17DE67C4- Taken by derExperte
derExperte
Member
Go to their Discord channcel (this should work) and nag rxy or Lenard when they're online (top right under Admin), worked for me and it's the only way.
Not even when logged in? If not ask for an invite during a livestream once PAX is over.
PetriP-TNT
Member
After finally having some time to play some vidya after moving into a new place I have been playing... some vidya!
- Been playing lots of Vampire The Masquerade Bloodlines,Got into Hollywood some time ago so I expect I am somewhere around 60% through?
- Started playing Rayman Legends again (co-op) and turns out uPlay doesn't have online saves and/or uninstalling the game removes the saves from existence. Bye bye near complete save.
- Playing Sonic 3 on Genesis today and yesterday, I was just watching the Sonic Mania gameplay today and I think I might think that I don't even like Sonic that much but that's something that always comes to me when playing Sonic
- Jesus christ the intro in Landstalker is long. I just want to play goddammit.
and lots of Rocket League.
Was kinda worried when after the move when trying to play RL I only got 20-30 FPS. The Genesis emulator ran like crap too, but Vampire (obviously) ran flawlessly and Rayman was 60fps too. Turns out my brother had plugged in the HDMI cable to the motherboard instead of GPU while helping me to put the computer back together. heh
- Been playing lots of Vampire The Masquerade Bloodlines,Got into Hollywood some time ago so I expect I am somewhere around 60% through?
- Started playing Rayman Legends again (co-op) and turns out uPlay doesn't have online saves and/or uninstalling the game removes the saves from existence. Bye bye near complete save.
- Playing Sonic 3 on Genesis today and yesterday, I was just watching the Sonic Mania gameplay today and I think I might think that I don't even like Sonic that much but that's something that always comes to me when playing Sonic
- Jesus christ the intro in Landstalker is long. I just want to play goddammit.
and lots of Rocket League.
Was kinda worried when after the move when trying to play RL I only got 20-30 FPS. The Genesis emulator ran like crap too, but Vampire (obviously) ran flawlessly and Rayman was 60fps too. Turns out my brother had plugged in the HDMI cable to the motherboard instead of GPU while helping me to put the computer back together. heh
electroflame
Member
Thanks, I didn't even know they had a Discord channel. That link doesn't work, though.
I just have to keep on it and check on them, I think. I mean, I know they're busy, but saying on-stream that it'll be 4-6 weeks tops and it being 4+ months is kind of...bad.
Baron_Calamity
Member
Hope you can get a catslock key.
SSPssp
Member
IG Extra
ModBot said:Instructions for SSPssp:
Press the quote button to the left of this PM, select the quoted text, copy, and paste in the thread. You can remove these lines from the version you paste.
Instructions for participants:
I am giving away a Steam key. To enter this giveaway, send a PM to ModBot with any subject line. In the body, copy and paste the entire line from the message below containing the game you want to enter for. Confused? Watch this GIF tutorial or ask for help.
Want to make your own ModBot giveaway? Click here for a quick tutorial thread. Please give generously.
ModBot Basics:
- No need to thank me. Please don't post thank you messages in thread or in PM.
- Do not trade keys you win off-site to enrich yourself. Don't try to claim games you have no interest in collecting or playing. Don't claim games to give them to friends off-site.
- If the key is already taken you will not receive a reply. Replies may take a minute or two.
Redactem --MB-7133302D8A546F79- Taken by electroflame
Thanks for the heads-up! Wishlisted.
Nyteshade517
Member
yeah...I have an EVGA GTX 1070 SC and usually when I'm gaming I put the fan on 60% in Afterburner and other than the initial split second when they start up the fans basically make no noise at all that I can hear
night and day difference to my previous card (290X reference type that sounded like a jet engine at full throttle)
All Keys should work. Extras from Bundlestar BundlesModBot said:Instructions for participants:
I am giving away 9 Steam keys. To enter this giveaway, send a PM to ModBot with any subject line. In the body, copy and paste the entire line from the message below that corresponds to the game you want. (if you include more than one game, you will be blocked from entering). Confused? Watch this GIF tutorial or ask for help.
Want to make your own ModBot giveaway? Click here for a quick tutorial thread. Please give generously.
ModBot Basics:
- No need to thank me. Please don't post thank you messages in thread or in PM.
- Do not trade keys you win off-site to enrich yourself. Don't try to claim games you have no interest in collecting or playing. Don't claim games to give them to friends off-site.
- If the key is already taken you will not receive a reply. Replies may take a minute or two.
Superstatic --MB-D7B045D65C563569- Taken by ThirtyFour
There Was A Caveman --MB-6D94680B0D3E2E90- Taken by longlivegaming
Broken Dreams --MB-7FCC593173540AC3- Taken by dimmer
Invasion: Brain Craving --MB-4B8E34E49AFA4D36- Taken by MaxiLive
HardCube --MB-16CC74CFEAD3FDB5- Taken by redlacs
Data Hacker: Reboot --MB-60514DB6BF600EE5- Taken by Abomination
Poof --MB-48CFD2716E2A463B- Taken by kionedrik
Incitement 3 --MB-93DBDDFED0DF6C34- Taken by illusionary
Data Hacker: Initiation -- MB-E999422B0458CD88
Actually I may be misremembering. It could be another game with similar combat, it's been years since I've played either.
...
ModBot said:Instructions for participants:
I am giving away 3 Steam keys. To enter this giveaway, send a PM to ModBot with any subject line. In the body, copy and paste the entire line from the message below that corresponds to the game you want. (if you include more than one game, you will be blocked from entering). Confused? Watch this GIF tutorial or ask for help.
Want to make your own ModBot giveaway? Click here for a quick tutorial thread. Please give generously.
ModBot Basics:
- No need to thank me.
- Do not trade keys you win off-site to enrich yourself. Don't try to claim games you have no interest in collecting or playing. Don't claim games to give them to friends off-site.
- If the key is already taken you will not receive a reply. Replies may take a minute or two.
Nova-111 --MB-970DFE0C748D4895- Taken by Purkake4
Princess Isabella: The Rise of an Heir --MB-6F88E0EE77BE7055- Taken by yoshizzle
Cook, Serve, Delicious! --MB-09A16EE35DACEFF2- Taken by hannes
You know, I guess it looks nice and whatnot, but coming in as a fan of the first American McGee's Alice, I felt this one was just pure disappointment. On every level, except the graphics. The combat felt a step back, with its regressive design (locked into "arenas" for combat even outside boss fights, whereas Alice 1 had relatively open areas, back in 2001), The levels were just visually disguised hallways, were the first one often felt truly labyrinthian. And god the story is so useless in this. Gone is the great writing and welcome treating me like an idiot who needs everything explained twice. Oh, and have some overbearing exposition on top.
McGee has so lost his touch.
Wok
Member
The Uncertain looks top notch. I have just finished the demo, and it is like a good TellTale game in a sci-fi setting.
Steam key available later:
https://www.humblebundle.com/store/owlboy
22.99 € (normal price)
18.39 € (discounted price, today only?)
16.55 € (with the additional Humble Monthly discount for subscribers)
Steam key available later:
https://www.humblebundle.com/store/owlboy
22.99 € (normal price)
18.39 € (discounted price, today only?)
16.55 € (with the additional Humble Monthly discount for subscribers)
So, I just got 350 cards in an hour by running the 1.5 sec AHK script and reloading idlemaster a few times. Idk what happened, never got that many but they just kept pouring in, lol. Just gotta idle these 4 remaining cards the normal way because the glitch doesn't seem to work on just 2 games.
trailmix16
Member
was about to write a big post on what i thought was a hexcells quirk, but i misread the tip re column numbers. great game, carry on
How do you guys shuffle your game time between games? Let's say I have Overwatch, Final Fantasy XIV, Hearthstone, Pokemon TCG Online, Pokemon Go and FIFA 17 I will play regularly, I'm thinking how I can shuffle between them. I especially want to level up in Overwatch, FFXIV and probably Hearthstone.
thesaucetastic
Unconfirmed Member
Thanks again for all the birthday wishes guys. I really appreciate them.
I'd prioritize the ones I want to play the most/want to fulfill a goal in the most. So in your case, I'd prioritize OW, FFXIV, and HS over the other games, and from there, let my mood decide. Just as long as it doesn't feel like work, lol.
Crimsonclaw111
Member
Well I don't mean to shit post but if you drop all of the free games and mmos you got yourself 2 games left.
I prioritize Idolmaster, Project Diva, whatever RPG I'm playing right now, and whatever multiplayer game I'm dedicated to at the time, mostly because a lot of the time I just want to practice and I'd rather play Overwatch when other people are playing with me.
I just go with the flow, dude. For example, right now I'm a single player games kick, so I'm investing all my allocated time in those, but it doesn't mean I won't go be playing Overwatch anymore, I'm just taking a break, and I'll be back as soon as I feel like it. Don't overthink you gaming "schedule", I used to do that and let me tell you, it's not a good habit to have, just play whatever you're on the mood for without thinking you're doing any wrong by ignoring other games.
btw, happy birthday thesaucetastic
Are those shots of the base game or modded?
SatelliteOfLove
Member
We're getting that LOUD NOISES fringe again. It's just whether or not that LOUD NOISES fringe is fringing a large disgruntled bubble as it were.
As for me, a chilling has occured over my interest in that, as partnering that with consistant performance issues isn't a great pairing.
- Status