Amen
Steph Curry Supernova
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crazy monkey
Banned
you need years of winning to be goat territory. that does not mean you cant be damn good. he is damn good.
An individual player will never have the biggest impact in determining whether or not a team gets a championship. No matter how good that player is. Injuries, front office moves, coaching have a much greater impact into a team getting a championship than any one individual player. If the Lakers don't get Shaq, Kobe wouldn't have the taste of success early in his career and who knows how the rest of his career plays out. If Stockton wasn't playing injured in '98, Jazz could have won a championship. Steph Curry is great, but what if the front office didn't put that great supporting cast around him? What if Mark Jackson was still the coach? I doubt gstate wins a ring with him still as the head coach.
Curry is already a top 10 GOAT time player if he gets a second ring this year. To be top 5 though he probably needs at least 3 rings and he needs to get 5 or 6 rings to be better than Jordan. I don't know how he'll be able to keep up this pace. He was already MVP last year and he's improved so much ahead of the competition at some point you have to say that the rest of the league makes an adjustment to stop him or slow him down. We've seen Kawhi shut him down for a game or half a game, but there aren't enough good defensive players in the league to do it over an entire season. Even if they regress next year... they'll still get 60+ wins (provided there don't get any injuries), thats still in the hunt for a number 1/2 seed. If Durant joins them next year and the Spurs are a year older, well the rest of the comp can forget about it. I have a feeling the rest of the league will veto that deal if thats possible for them.
Its a nice stat, but points per game don't matter in regards to GOAT discussion. Top 5 for me would be Jordan, Bill Russell, Kareem, Bird, Magic and Russell had 11 rings and averaged 15pts over his career. Wins/Rings are all that matter.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Ahhh to be young and only have YT clips as a means to watch old greats.
Marauder Shields
Member
That is very questionable imo. I know personal preference and all that, but I don't think he's been elite for long enough to even consider him in the top 10 all time. Maybe in due time, but not yet.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
So if Curry retired at the end of this year, you would put him above all but 9 other players EVER?
Lmaoooo. Not even close.
ryutaro's mama
Member
I just want to see the list of players he has in his Top 10 All Time if Curry is almost already there with 1 ring.
beat
Member
But it's probably possible. Between his ankle supports and better physical trainers, it's possible (knock on wood) he'll be reasonably durable for the rest of his career.
There's maybe a couple of tricky moves to get at least two of Bogut and Iguodala and Barnes off the books, but Durant himself would arrive as a free agent, not a trade. I don't see how the other teams or the league office could veto that.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
Oh, I love Curry. Don't get me wrong. I HOPE he gets even better and just does record setting things for the next 8 years so that he could legitimately become GOAT. I'm just saying that any kind of talk like that right now is crazy.
Fair call, I respect that.
But let's assume he gets his second ring this year... I think two rings plus a GOAT season would be good enough to put him into top 10.
Olajuwon got two rings and he's regularly in the top 10 of all time. Barkley has no rings and is a top 20 player.
Bogut has one season remaining so maybe they have some sort of agreement to play for less in his next contract and eat the tax next year. I wouldn't trade Iggy right now, too much chemistry. Barnes when he didn't sign his 16m a year, that pretty much tells me he was walking. Sad because he's a decent fit. I think $16m is already overpaying a fourth option so they did him a favour by basically matching Klay and Dray.
On other teams vetoing Durant going to the warriors, I have no idea if the league has the power to do that or not for a free agent. I would think after the Chris Paul trade that they would want to avoid the strongest teams getting stronger. I actually found this warriors season less interesting than last season, because there's such disparity this year between teams. But it can't be understated what an achievement 72 wins is right now. It's mindblowing. You have two MVP contenders (Durant/Westbrook) on the same team and they're at 54-26. It takes something else to get to 70+ wins.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
Rings rings rings. So what? So he's already had a better career than Barkley, Malone, Stockton? No way.
He's had two ELITE seasons. He's been a good player otherwise. That does not put you in the top 10. Not even close.
pinsomniac
Member
Wait, GSW-MEM is on ESPN? Who's broadcasting the Lakers game then?
ryutaro's mama
Member
ESPN2
Vault Dweller 111
Member
Curry's career numbers:
22.4/7/4
With 48% shooting. One championship (not FMVP) and a good chance of another + FMVP.
Compares pretty favorably with Dwyane Wade:
24/6/5
49% shooting. 3 championships one FMVP.
Is Dwyane Wade a top ten all time player?
22.4/7/4
With 48% shooting. One championship (not FMVP) and a good chance of another + FMVP.
Compares pretty favorably with Dwyane Wade:
24/6/5
49% shooting. 3 championships one FMVP.
Is Dwyane Wade a top ten all time player?
You're telling me that two MVPs is not equal or better than Barkley (1 MVP), Malone (2 MVPs), Stockton (no MVPs). We can't really be having the conversation of who has had the best career because Curry's is not over yet, but if you want to talk about achievements, Curry has already achieved more.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
Which is why those three players are not in top 10 lists either.
Exactly, his career is not over. Which is why my one and only grievance with what you said is "If he win the championship this year, he is already in the top 10" which is insane IMO.
FO-totality
Poet Centuriate
Google says TWSN and FSOK.
........seriously?
When people think of MJ as the GOAT, most only think of the offensive side. They never talk about how he was considered by a lot of his peers as the best defender of his era as well.
two players who Steph shouldn't be ranked above right now or if he wins another ring this year.
edit: there's 3 guys in the league currently that is ranked ahead of Steph whether or not he wins another ring this year.
Kobe/TD/LBJ
Steph is a great player having a historic year, but people are trying to crown him or put him in that GOAT tier waaaay too soon
They did the same with Kobe, Lebron and quite a few others. Discrediting Curry because of hyperbole is pretty ludicrous, when he's having a better year than both Kobe and Lebron ever had with arguably a lesser supporting cast, and both have had plenty of their own "is he the GOAT?" discussion pretty damn early in their careers as well.
DearestJuliet
Banned
Could we count up the jibronis after every loss/ nteenth point game Curry had in this thread and eternally make them a tag that says they failed? Hard? Because there is no way in FUCK the Warriors are losing this next game.
MidnightCowboy
Member
No way. The Warriors are stacked, that's why they are so good. Yeah Kobe played with Shaq, and LeBron had Wade and Bosh, but I wouldn't say they ever had better supporting casts than Curry has this year.
BassForever
Member
You can argue steph has had overall one of the best seasons as a shooter ever maybe number 1 based upon the amount of 3s he's made and the amount of way beyond the arc shots he consistently made. Overall player though he needs a few more years of this kind of shooting dominance before we start to proclaim him top x ever as an overall player.
It seems to me that Curry is now what Messi was for football some years ago. Had one great season, champ, then another great season, beating records, possibly winning again... I remember people saying Messi was better than Pele which was extremely funny tbh, but Messi keeps delivering awesomeness for 8, 9 years, so now it's ok to discuss his place in the top10 top5 goat of football. To be in the top you need talent and consistency.
Just as a comparison, Ronaldinho had 3 awesome years of pure magic in Barça, but his career declined (even though he ended up winning Libertadores) and nowadays he is a retired professional player. When he was at his top people also said he could be the/one of the best, now nobody says it. But still, he made history and wont be forgotten.
Only time will tell if Curry is more like Messi or Ronaldinho.
Just as a comparison, Ronaldinho had 3 awesome years of pure magic in Barça, but his career declined (even though he ended up winning Libertadores) and nowadays he is a retired professional player. When he was at his top people also said he could be the/one of the best, now nobody says it. But still, he made history and wont be forgotten.
Only time will tell if Curry is more like Messi or Ronaldinho.
dragonyeuw
Member
Jordan
Kareem
Wilt
Russell
Magic
Bird
Shaq
Duncan
Hakeem
Lebron/Kobe
Which of those players should be kicked out to make room for Curry on the top ten all-time list?
Two rings and a few more years of playing this well and he ascends.
What is the rush in crowning this dude as goat? Why doesn't steph have to keep up his new found dominance for a decade like other players did? Why doesn't he have to get close or match other players in the goat discussion in rings? Why does his d get a pass when other goat players were great two way players?
You can't be so caught up in the hype that you throw away other players who did all those things. It's damn near disrespectful to the game.
You can't be so caught up in the hype that you throw away other players who did all those things. It's damn near disrespectful to the game.
Curry is a better shooter than all of those guys. That should count for something.
I would take out Shaq.
What Curry did this year with nearly 400 3-pointers made and now going on 150+ consecutive games with a 3 pointer made is more impressive than anything Shaq ever did. Curry is basically setting Wilt and Gretzky type records. They will never be broken.
dragonyeuw
Member
Basketball is more than shooting. By that logic anyone who can shoot is better than Wilt. Or Russel. Or Kareem. Or Shaq.
Take Shaq out? LOL. Do we have some prisoners of the moment in here. Shaq has arguably a top 3 peak, 4 title with 3 finals mvps, 14 years of dominance....and Curry has surpassed that off the basis of 2 great seasons? Sorry, but no.
dragonyeuw
Member
Shhhhh.... please stop talking sensibly.
how is it any discredit to Curry? Let's say he's peaked/peaking higher than Kobe and Lebron, that doesn't make him better because what those two guys have/had is longevity. Lebron played damn near at "curry level" for such a prolonged period.
and yes they did the same with Kobe and Lebron. That doesn't make them right then and it doesn't make them right today regarding Curry. Give him some time. He's still pretty young and have plenty years left in the league.
rofl
a guy who (during his peak Orlando/Lakers) averaged ~27pts and ~12rbs for 12 years is to be replaced by a guy who's had 2 superlative years?
ryutaro's mama
Member
Yeah, let's remove Shaq, the first ballot HOFer. <rolls eyes>
You want a 2 year sample size like Curry has, in regards to Shaq? Look no further than 1999-00 and 2000-01 Shaq. Dude was abusing the league so badly they eventually changed the rules.
dragonyeuw
Member
Curry's a tough one to really measure against Lebron and Kobe, especially Lebron. Lebron has carried some really average teams further than they had any business getting( the Cavs before he went to Miami comes to mind) and was such an all-around force. To me prime Lebron does more for your team, on both sides of the ball, and would probably carry an average team further than Curry could. Curry's a transcendent shooter, but he has some very nice pieces around him tailor-made for today's rules.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Not even Steph Curry believes this. You sound like someone too young to remember what Shaq was in his prime.
Like 72-10 will never be broken? Sorry bro, but you are coming across as a huge prisoner of the moment.
Guys, can we please stop this stupid, done to death discussion about how Curry stacks up against the GOAT.
The question right now is how does he currently stack up against the GOAT Point Guards? I'd currently put him #3 behind Magic and Oscar Robertson, but if he continues this type of performance for a few more years he could surpass both.
The question right now is how does he currently stack up against the GOAT Point Guards? I'd currently put him #3 behind Magic and Oscar Robertson, but if he continues this type of performance for a few more years he could surpass both.
CrocMother
Banned
Are you joking?
it's pretty fun to discuss though lol
dragonyeuw
Member
Curry to me is more of a combo guard than a pure point. I don't think he was a better floor general than Isiah, Stockton, or Kidd in their day. Obviously, he's light years ahead of them offensively. I'd go as far as to say neither of your top 2 points, Curry and Westbrook, are traditional point guards. We've had scoring PGs in years past, but it's being taken to a new level nowadays.
If Curry gets a second MVP and a second ring ->
Jordan
Russell
Kareem
Magic
Bird
Duncan
Lebron
Wilt
Shaq
Curry
But im not really a kobe fan so theres a bit of bias here. He's probably a top 10 player for many people but i always found his selfishnesses hard to watch.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
Plus amazing defense from MJ.
So you admit that you are being completely bias and change the rankings based around players you like?
You really think someone is gonna hit nearly 400 3-pointers in a season again?
That record is Gretzky and Wilt esque. It ain't happening. No one has ever even reached 300 before Curry did this very season.
dragonyeuw
Member
Most of those guys rankings are based off 12-15 years( or longer) careers. So you're saying Curry deserves to be in that tier off the basis of two elite seasons? And I notice you don't have Hakeem on there. So this year and last puts Curry over a guy with 2 rings himself, an MVP, a defensive player of the year, all-time blocked shots leader and #8 all-time in steals as a center?! And 26, 000 plus points and 13,000 plus rebounds....Curry's ahead of that guy already? My oh my....
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