Steph Curry Supernova

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I'm not a sports enthusiast but ever since curry went super sayian on the league i've been much more involved with the NBA in general.

What would you say are the points of emphasis that the warriors need to work on, if any?

I imagine there has to be something because there have been a couple games last week where they just squeaked by with a win.

I know they hemorrhage turnovers a lot but most of it is a byproduct of their uptempo play.

Watching them i feel like they do a lot right on the court so sometimes its weird to see teams giving them stiff competition well into the final minutes.
 
Just did a little homework,

You don't even have to go that far back to see a hot streak this good - Lebron's February 2013, where the Heat went 12-0, he averaged 29.7/7.5/7.8 shooting 64% (73% TS%).

Not so coincidentally, this was the start of Miami's (second best ever) 27 game winning streak.

Keeping this up for 5 consecutive seasons seems... unlikely.
 
Sho_Nuff82 said:
Just did a little homework,

You don't even have to go that far back to see a hot streak this good - Lebron's February 2013, where the Heat went 12-0, he averaged 29.7/7.5/7.8 shooting 64% (73% TS%).

Not so coincidentally, this was the start of Miami's (second best ever) 27 game winning streak.

Keeping this up for 5 consecutive seasons seems... unlikely.
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LeBron is a slasher. Curry is a sniper.
 
badb0y said:
They already play Steph Curry physically. That's the craziest thing about Steph Curry's shot, it's rarely a spot up shot, dude is always fading sideways or falling down or fading front or leaning forward etc. I rarely see him take a spot up shot.
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I think that is absolutely true and adds another * to why what he is doing is so incredible.

I do think that Curry in 80's ball would not succeed like today. The physicality was much more immense, people say hand checking is overrated but being able to physically read where your assignment is going to go and physically inhibit his movement is a huge advantage. The laxer refereeing and no three second rule or restricted area. The Shaq rules.

I think defense today is more interesting because to be successful it requires cooperation, skill and more scheming but great players in each era emerge because they are talents that allign perfectly with the game as it is at the time.

I don't think it is a knock to say Curry wouldn't be Curry in the 80's, nor do I think it is a knock to think some of the great centers in the early days of the NBA wouldn't dominate in todays game.
 
Can we stop with the no one plays Steph Curry physically talk? Teams are as physical as they can get with him already (It's probably point of emphasis number 1). Granted he can't get D'd up 90's basketball style but most of those things would be whistled in today's game (not to mention a lot of those tactics would be flagrants now).
 
Gully State said:
Can we stop with the no one plays Steph Curry physically talk? Teams are as physical as they can get with him already (It's probably point of emphasis number 1). Granted he can't get D'd up 90's basketball style but most of those things would be whistled in today's game (not to mention a lot of those tactics would be flagrants now).
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I also feel like a lot of the physicality people talk about from decades past came into play more when a guy was driving to the basket and playing iso every possession. Not sure how most of that stuff would apply as much with him flying around the perimeter or coming off of screens. And as you said, he's already constantly played physically. He gets held, grabbed, bumped, etc. off the ball basically every possession.
 
GaimeGuy said:
LeBron is a slasher. Curry is a sniper.
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I really think the best comparison for Steph is a rich man's Reggie Miller. Steph is a better three point shooter (he'll most likely go down as the best ever) and he has a quicker release. The crazy thing to me is that he's statistically a better rebounder than Reggie despite Reggie being 6'7.
 
Fjordson said:
The athleticism is also off the charts these days. Guys like Barnes, Ezeli, Draymond and Iguodala have incredible combinations of size, speed and strength that I don't think most older teams could match.

I still put the Bulls on top, just because Jordan is Jordan and Pippen was also a freak of nature athletically, but I think the Warriors would do just fine against some of these older "physical" teams.
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I think some of that is a product of current science and training but another large component is that the way the game was called 30 years ago made having physical bodies, post players and physical defenders more important then finesse perimeter players.
 
Fjordson said:
I still put the Bulls on top, just because Jordan is Jordan and Pippen was also a freak of nature athletically, but I think the Warriors would do just fine against some of these older "physical" teams.
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The 1995-96 Bulls have the highest Elo rating, ever. This season's Warriors have an Elo of 1831. They could eclipse the Bulls, we'll see!
 
hbkdx12 said:
I'm not a sports enthusiast but ever since curry went super sayian on the league i've been much more involved with the NBA in general.

What would you say are the points of emphasis that the warriors need to work on, if any?

I imagine there has to be something because there have been a couple games last week where they just squeaked by with a win.

I know they hemorrhage turnovers a lot but most of it is a byproduct of their uptempo play.

Watching them i feel like they do a lot right on the court so sometimes its weird to see teams giving them stiff competition well into the final minutes.
Click to expand...

It's hard to mentally be composed and dialed in all the time when you're on a winning streak given how many games there are in an NBA season much rather a historic one. On any given night, teams are going to come at you with their best and it's just hard to play 48 min of dominant basketball. So having a bit of letdown is just natural. If you want some more concrete stuff

1- Careless turnovers. Steph Curry lazy passes, Speights can't hold onto the ball. Which leads me to point #2

2- Mo Speights- I like Mo Buckets but he's been playing like garbage. He's trying to do way too much. Kerr got mileage out of him last year because he gave Mo a clear role to play as a backup stretch 5. You're here to hit freethrow line extended jumpers and take charges. This year you have Mo posting up/driving more. He has this bad habit of bringing the ball down and gathering on a catch which leads to a ton of TO's. Also he's prone to getting stripped off rebounds..On defense, he's a bit of a mess outside the key.

3- Rebounding? Numbers wise they're a top rebounding team but the Warriors go through spurts during a game where the defense forces misses but they just can't secure the defensive board.

4- Defense- We're still a top 5 defense but the defense just isn't as good as last year. But it's not like they aren't capable of playing lockdown D. Just that the Warriors are doing it more in spurts this year.

5- Missing Barnes- I think Barnes being out these last few games have highlighted his value on this team. We can't play the small ball death squad lineup as effectively because Barnes' ability to mismatch against opposing bigs and cover them on D. He's also a more clutch scorer than Klay right now IMO. He's had quite a few clutch scoring runs this year (you don't notice it since Steph is going WTFBBQ on teams). Thankfully he'll be back soon.

6- Kerr Effect/Experimentation- Coaching staff is clearly tinkering with second unit combinations right now which can lead to poor runs (have to do this early in the season to essentially bank minutes for later on in the year). I also think Walton doesn't quite have Kerr's game sense when it comes to timeouts and substitutions. Kerr isn't a quick trigger TO guy but he has a better sense with it. Walton kinda tries to let his teams play out of bad stretches but it ends up just looking like he called TO multiple possessions too late. That and Luke isn't deploying Mo Speights properly (maybe injuries have kinda forced his hand to play Speights more? I dunno).
 
Gully State said:
Can we stop with the no one plays Steph Curry physically talk? Teams are as physical as they can get with him already (It's probably point of emphasis number 1). Granted he can't get D'd up 90's basketball style but most of those things would be whistled in today's game (not to mention a lot of those tactics would be flagrants now).
Click to expand...

The closest to this was when CP3 was on Curry for their second game, I believe. That man was relentless on Steph.

Not exactly a good comparison to 90's defense, but the closest we'll probably get. :(
 
Fjordson said:
I also feel like a lot of the physicality people talk about from decades past came into play more when a guy was driving to the basket and playing iso every possession. Not sure how most of that stuff would apply as much with him flying around the perimeter or coming off of screens. And as you said, he's already constantly played physically. He gets held, grabbed, bumped, etc. off the ball basically every possession.
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It was everywhere defense was more physical. On ball and off. The problem with a guy like Curry would of been the beating his body would take. In the video below imagine Curry fighting off ball while guys like Lambeer choke hold him and another guy is roughing him up. Curry would also have struggled mightily entering the league. The defense he played when he entered the league would of made him a huge liability. Imagine Curry guarding a physical guard that can post him up with no 5 second rule? Then on the other end hand check, grab, push and bang him around. His frame would of been a huge target for these physical defenders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLv2F33snCE
 
Jonm1010 said:
It was everywhere defense was more physical. On ball and off. The problem with a guy like Curry would of been the beating his body would take. In the video below imagine Curry fighting off ball while guys like Lambeer choke hold him and another guy is roughing him up. Curry would also have struggled mightily entering the league. The defense he played when he entered the league would of made him a huge liability while his frame would of been a huge target for these physical defenders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLv2F33snCE
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He would have adapted and been fine. Curry is bigger than Avery Johnson, Kevin Johnson, Muggsy Bogues, Tim Hardaway, John Stockton, etc...all those guys played over 10 years in the 80s and 90s. Hell, he's only an inch shorter than Gary Payton and his listed weight is slightly heavier than Payton's reported playing weight.

Curry's not as small as a lot of people make him out to be.
 
XiaNaphryz said:
He would have adapted and been fine. Curry is bigger than Avery Johnson, Kevin Johnson, Muggsy Bogues, Tim Hardaway, John Stockton, etc...all those guys played over 10 years in the 80s and 90s. Curry's not as small as a lot of people make him out to be.
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Fine in what way? He certainly wouldn't have been the dominating force he is today and coming out of college with the injuries he endured don't bode well for his early career in a much more physical era.

I love the guy but it isnt a knock to say his game wouldn't translate as much to the older eras.
 
GaimeGuy said:
LeBron is a slasher. Curry is a sniper.
Click to expand...

LeBron shot 43% from 3 during that stretch. But that's besides the point, the overall level of efficiency and production was similar during their similar win streaks. In other words, Curry's current best basketball is at least as good as the best stretch of Lebron's life. Whether it can be sustained for an entire season remains to be seen.
 
Jonm1010 said:
Fine in what way? He certainly wouldn't have been the dominating force he is today and coming out of college with the injuries he endured don't bode well for his early career in a much more physical era.

I love the guy but it isnt a knock to say his game wouldn't translate as much to the older eras.
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The physical defense bit is overrated. Yes, some teams did a lot more physical stuff off-ball especially near the rim, but aside from the obviously more flagrant stuff that would be called as such today it's not that much different to today in terms of hand-checking and grabbing and inadvertent elbows. Memphis got away with that sort of thing against players the past several seasons before this year's meltdown.

There were shooters back then who ran through tons of screens and also managed to make shots, assuming Curry wouldn't be able to do the same doesn't make any sense.

And I thought we were talking about Curry right now? Why are we trying to reframe the conversation to him entering the league new back then? There were plenty of players back then who were in the same situation (undersized, good on offense but liability on defense) who ended up getting better, it's not unprecedented. Are you trying to move goalposts now?
 
XiaNaphryz said:
He would have adapted and been fine. Curry is bigger than Avery Johnson, Kevin Johnson, Muggsy Bogues, Tim Hardaway, John Stockton, etc...all those guys played over 10 years in the 80s and 90s. Hell, he's only an inch shorter than Gary Payton and his listed weight is slightly heavier than Payton's reported playing weight.

Curry's not as small as a lot of people make him out to be.
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Totally. I remember a few seasons ago wondering how Curry routinely got 5-7 rebounds a game, but it's easy to forget that he's a legit 6-3, 6-4 and isn't afraid of sticking his nose in there.

I think the ankle injuries early may have gotten him the fragile label, but I think (knock on wood) that's all behind him.
 
Gully State said:
5- Missing Barnes- I think Barnes being out these last few games have highlighted his value on this team. We can't play the small ball death squad lineup as effectively because Barnes' ability to mismatch against opposing bigs and cover them on D. He's also a more clutch scorer than Klay right now IMO. He's had quite a few clutch scoring runs this year (you don't notice it since Steph is going WTFBBQ on teams). Thankfully he'll be back soon.
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Question: When are they gonna go to Brandon Rush again like they did in that last Kings game? I see your point on missing Barnes, but don't you think can leverage Brandon more?

Also what are your thoughts on the Pacers game tomorrow?
 
XiaNaphryz said:
The physical defense bit is overrated. Yes, some teams did a lot more physical stuff off-ball especially near the rim, but aside from the obviously more flagrant stuff that would be called as such today it's not that much different to today in terms of hand-checking and grabbing and inadvertent elbows. Memphis got away with that sort of thing against players the past several seasons before this year's meltdown.

There were shooters back then who ran through tons of screens and also managed to make shots, assuming Curry wouldn't be able to do the same doesn't make any sense.

And I thought we were talking about Curry right now? Why are we trying to reframe the conversation to him entering the league new back then? There were plenty of players back then who were in the same situation (undersized, good on offense but liability on defense) who ended up getting better, it's not unprecedented. Are you trying to move goalposts now?
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It was a lot different. Hand checking, grabbing, wrapping people up off screens, playing the post like you are an offensive lineman, the physicality with which the game was called was much different. You can't hand wave that away.

You also gloss over the flagrant stuff that would get called today. Guys like Bill Lambeer made a career of that and that sort of physicality is why Jordan decided to work on his post game. He was getting killed inside.

I love Curry but different eras, different rules and different strategies required different skill sets to be truly exceptional within them. Curry would have been successful if he could stay healthy( a big if) but I have severe doubts he would of been exceptional in the way he is today.
Fjordson said:
Totally. I remember a few seasons ago wondering how Curry routinely got 5-7 rebounds a game, but it's easy to forget that he's a legit 6-3, 6-4 and isn't afraid of sticking his nose in there.

I think the ankle injuries early may have gotten him the fragile label, but I think (knock on wood) that's all behind him.
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And you think he is going to do that in 80's, early 90's ball?
 
JCreasy said:
Question: When are they gonna go to Brandon Rush again like they did in that last Kings game? I see your point on missing Barnes, but don't you think can leverage Brandon more?

Also what are your thoughts on the Pacers game tomorrow?
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Brandon Rush is starting in place of Barnes right now. I'm not sure what to make of him to be honest. I do root for him to play well because of the way injuries kinda derailed his career. He was going to be a really quality 3 and D guy before he tore up his ACL against Memphis many many years ago.

As for the Pacers, I honestly haven't watched them much outside of a few Paul George highlights here and there so I can't honestly say anything. Though, if the win streak were to end in the next week or two, it'd probably be the Pacers doing it.
 
Gully State said:
Brandon Rush is starting in place of Barnes right now. I'm not sure what to make of him to be honest. I do root for him to play well because of the way injuries kinda derailed his career. He was going to be a really quality 3 and D guy before he tore up his ACL against Memphis many many years ago.

As for the Pacers, I honestly haven't watched them much outside of a few Paul George highlights here and there so I can't honestly say anything. Though, if the win streak were to end in the next week or two, it'd probably be the Pacers doing it.
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Boston is a sneaky tough one too.
 
PBY said:
Boston is a sneaky tough one too.
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My Pelicans play them tonight. Didn't realize just how good their defense is this year. 3rd in defensive efficiency in the NBA.

.....Just Wish Darren Erman could of translated that defensive building success with Boston to us.
 
Jonm1010 said:
I love Curry but different eras, different rules and different strategies required different skill sets to be truly exceptional within them. Curry would have been successful if he could stay healthy( a big if) but I have severe doubts he would of been exceptional in the way he is today.

And you think he is going to do that in 80's, early 90's ball?
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While defenses were generally more physical back then, schematically you were also a lot more limited with what you could do because of how illegal defense worked. With Curry, you could do the same thing like Jordan did - move everyone to one side of the court and have Curry ISO on someone. More often than not, I think he'd be able to break free and get an open shot. Unlike a lot of other shooters, Curry is just as good making unassisted shots. He doesn't need to catch and shoot to be effective.

Plus, the way Curry is playing now (which is what the conversation has always been about, not whether Curry entering the league back then would have become the player he is right now), I don't think it's any easier to guard a 30-35 foot shot back then either.

Speaking as a Spurs fan, because I live in the Bay Area gets to see a bunch of Warrior games, even I can recognize how good he is playing right now. Whether or not it's sustainable is the question really.
 
Curry is doing things offensively like I haven't seen before. He's fun to watch.

Nowhere near the GOAT discussion though.
 
I don't get the 'would Curry have been as good in another era' talk. Of all the modern day players, his skill set transcends rules or play styles, because he's the best at all time in the most important skill in the game, that being getting the ball in the basket in the most efficient way possible.

I don't even want to think what his numbers would be like during the seasons they brought the 3 point line in.
 
XiaNaphryz said:
While defenses were generally more physical back then, schematically you were also a lot more limited with what you could do because of how illegal defense worked. With Curry, you could do the same thing like Jordan did - move everyone to one side of the court and have Curry ISO on someone. More often than not, I think he'd be able to break free and get an open shot.

Plus, the way Curry is playing now (which is what the conversation has always been about, not whether Curry entering the league back then would have become the player he is right now), I don't think it's any easier to guard a 30-35 foot shot back then either.
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The thing is though a team wouldn't build around Curry Iso's. Which is the other component besides just the way defense was played. With the way the game was designed at the time, if you weren't a physical freak like Jordan, post play tended to reign supreme.

There is also an argument - that I think has a lot of merit - that the shift in rules has 1.) allowed easier penetration(undoubtedly true) and thus 2.) it has indirectly opened up shots for shooters.

That was also why my exceptional comment was qualified with saying certain players just fit perfectly in a given eras rules, strategies and contain the right mix of skillsets to set themselves apart.
 
legend166 said:
I don't get the 'would Curry have been as good in another era' talk. Of all the modern day players, his skill set transcends rules or play styles, because he's the best at all time in the most important skill in the game, that being getting the ball in the basket in the most efficient way possible.

I don't even want to think what his numbers would be like during the seasons they brought the 3 point line in.
Click to expand...

His shooting percentage from threes is so high that it honestly wouldn't have made that huge of a difference (especially when you consider how many pull up and off balance threes he hits.
 
akileese said:
His shooting percentage from threes is so high that it honestly wouldn't have made that huge of a difference (especially when you consider how many pull up and off balance threes he hits.
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Exactly, unless you mean straight up punching the guy as he goes for the shot I don't think it would be any different. I think he has the best handles in the league too. Dude dances on people when he needs to.
 
Jonm1010 said:
The thing is though a team wouldn't build around Curry Iso's. Which is the other component besides just the way defense was played. With the way the game was designed at the time, if you weren't a physical freak like Jordan, post play tended to reign supreme.

There is also an argument - that I think has a lot of merit - that the shift in rules has 1.) allowed easier penetration(undoubtedly true) and thus 2.) it has indirectly opened up shots for shooters.

That was also why my exceptional comment was qualified with saying certain players just fit perfectly in a given eras rules, strategies and contain the right mix of skillsets to set themselves apart.
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Thing is Curry isn't a catch and shoot player. He's got all the tools of a playmaking point guard. I find it hard to believe that he couldn't thrive the way Tim Hardaway/John Stockton/Mark Price did. Also, one thing that doesn't get mentioned is that Curry is the type of player that goes against dogmatic principles of basketball. One big example is that as a big man (and even the first guy back on transition D), you are taught from youth basketball and up to run and guard the paint first then extend to the perimeter to the point where it becomes instinctive. Curry completely punishes big men for doing that. You run back to guard the paint in transition..Curry will punish you for a pull up 3. And if you guard the 3 on transition, you leave the lane wide open for a layup and if it's a big man...you have a mismatch at the perimeter. Yeah the Lambeers of the world could hit him for getting into the key but Curry would've consistently put 90's big men out of position.
 
CVmbVXqUAAAOwDM.png

Where they at though?
 
Gully State said:
Thing is Curry isn't a catch and shoot player. He's got all the tools of a playmaking point guard. I find it hard to believe that he couldn't thrive the way Tim Hardaway/John Stockton/Mark Price did. Also, one thing that doesn't get mentioned is that Curry is the type of player that goes against dogmatic principles of basketball. One big example is that as a big man (and even the first guy back on transition D), you are taught from youth basketball and up to run and guard the paint first then extend to the perimeter to the point where it becomes instinctive. Curry completely punishes big men for doing that. You run back to guard the paint in transition..Curry will punish you for a pull up 3. And if you guard the 3 on transition, you leave the lane wide open for a layup and if it's a big man...you have a mismatch at the perimeter. Yeah the Lambeers of the world could hit him for getting into the key but Curry would've consistently put 90's big men out of position.
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Im not saying he wouldn't have found success, though I do think his injury history mixed with worse medical care and the physicality of the game back then is not a good recipe for Curry.

I just think that you look at the exceptional players of any era and they are the players that have the right mix of talent and physical gifts to exploit and maximize within the given era's rules, concepts and team strategies. Some guys could play in any era, but some of those players would probably be more or less dominant given the era they were in.

My only argument is that I don't think Curry's game would translate to the older era at the same success rate. The player he would of been would of been a lot different and even if he tried to play his game from this era in the defensive era of late 80's, early 90's, I think the physicality would of had an effect.
 
from sbs nation

Stephen Curry doesn't just excel at basketball. He affronts our customs for presenting and enjoying basketball. If Steph wrote a movie, the good guy would kill the bad guy in the opening credits. If he made an electronic dance jam, the beat would drop after two seconds and everyone at the rave would faint.

Steph dismantles the structure on which an entire production is built. He breaks every rule the rest of us are trained to follow and flourishes just the same. It's not fair.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/12/3/9674388/warriors-stephen-curry-ruins-everything-for-everybody
 
Anybody hear the latest on Klay for tonight? Is he gonna play?

Also, maybe we can make this a Warriors OT, unless one already exist . . .
 
Whats nuts is they are 23 - 0 and only up five games on the Spurs. We might see the Warrirors break 72-10 because they won't be able to take the gas off if the Spurs win 60+ games.
 
Gully State said:
Can we stop with the no one plays Steph Curry physically talk? Teams are as physical as they can get with him already (It's probably point of emphasis number 1). Granted he can't get D'd up 90's basketball style but most of those things would be whistled in today's game (not to mention a lot of those tactics would be flagrants now).
Click to expand...
Also, fouling Curry is really dumb too. It's the easiest 2 points he'll get all night.
 
legend166 said:
I don't get the 'would Curry have been as good in another era' talk. Of all the modern day players, his skill set transcends rules or play styles, because he's the best at all time in the most important skill in the game, that being getting the ball in the basket in the most efficient way possible.

I don't even want to think what his numbers would be like during the seasons they brought the 3 point line in.
Click to expand...

Having to play man-to-man every night would undoubtedly make playing the defensive end more tiring for Curry. I'd also say being hand-checked constantly would wreck Curry's release.
 
Under Armor is fucking up big time, how are they not all over the place with Curry. Ask the average sports fan which shoe Curry is signed to, maybe 20% would know it was UA.
 
bucknuticus said:
Under Armor is fucking up big time, how are they not all over the place with Curry. Ask the average sports fan which shoe Curry is signed to, maybe 20% would know it was UA.
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It's funny to think that Nike missed out on Curry because they didn't want to match a $4M offer from Under Armor.
 
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