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[dragonyeuw]

How many more stats do you want to debunk? You keep going back to efficiency. His PER is 8th all time. Amazing, but not number 1. I'm not sure why you're even arguing with me here. I think Steph is an insanely talented basketball player. But he's not having the most dominant offensive season in NBA history. He's really not.

Actually, I wasnt making the case that he's had the greatest individual offensive season. But his TS% this year is I believe first all time, so for every point you're trying to make that he isnt, theres other evidence that can be used to counterpoint. Im mainly saying to look past PPG, and especially win shares because there are clearly inferior offensive players ranked higher on that list. To that point,you still havent answered my question as to what Kevin Garnett and Chris Paul having higher win shares means in the context of your argument. You're the one who raised it, and I countered it and now you're asking why Im arguing with you?!

When it comes down to it, the points youre making about his win shares and PER, things which take defensive prowess and stats into account, doesnt really detract from his raw offensive stats looking at PPG, MPG, points per shot, points per minute, field goal percentages, true shooting numbers. Look at some of your other great scorers, even Jordan was playing 38 minutes a night to score 32-33 points, on lower across the board efficiency. And Im an huge MJ nut, but the stats do speak for themselves here.

PER takes into account blocks and steals as well. So its actually a testament that Currys PER is 8th overall because his defensive stats arent all that spectacular. 2 steals a game is great, .2 blocks isnt.

And yes, scoring efficiency is important. Do you think Allen Iverson is a better scorer because he has a few scoring seasons higher than what Curry did this year? Its efficiency and volume thats being used when people make this claim. Is it subjective? Sure, but its a better argument than saying it isnt just because you find some stat saying he's 37th in win shares when that accounts for defense as well, and as previously mentioned you have worse offensive players ahead of him on the list. Like Neil Johnston, who is that?

 

[BumRush]

But his TS% this year is I believe first all time, so for every point you're trying to make that he isnt, theres other evidence that can be used to counterpoint. I

For every argument saying that Curry isn't having the best offensive year ever there's a counter argument why he is??

Because his TS% in '15-'16 is the highest all time? (It's 17th by the way, not 1st)

So PPG, PER, WS, Offensive Efficiency, VORP, etc. are all negated?


Also, later in your post you mention how I just picked a random stat (WS) but that it includes defense. His Offense WS in '15 - '16 was 34th all time.

I think we're just off-topic on this now so I'm going to drop it.

 

[dragonyeuw]

For every argument saying that Curry isn't having the best offensive year ever there's a counter argument why he is??

Because his TS% in '15-'16 is the highest all time? (It's 17th by the way, not 1st)

So PPG, PER, WS, Offensive Efficiency, VORP, etc. are all negated?


Also, later in your post you mention how I just picked a random stat (WS) but that it includes defense. His Offense WS in '15 - '16 was 34th all time.

.

You're right. Curry is 17th in TS%. But then Tyson Chandler is number one. Context needs to be applied here.

Once again, unless youre making the point that Chris Paul had a better offensive season than Curry because he's higher on the win share list, I dont see the point in arguing on that metric.

Anyways yes, I think we're talking past each other at this point. End of the day, he's in the discussion. I dont think there ahould be any debate about that

 

[Nafai1123]

People thinking the Warriors are good without Curry...smh.

Don't mistake beating the totally broken Rockets with being good. Cavs without LeBron, Spurs without Leonard, OKC without Durant, Clips without Paul...all would beat the Rockets pretty easily.

The Warriors are done if Curry can't come back. All this talk about how he is just a shooter? Dude warps the entire court unlike any player ever has (although I know Wilt also had a similar effect). Just standing without the ball 35' from the basket the defense is compromised because they have to change their shape to account for it. Teams double him 40' from the basket leaving his teammates 4v3. Watching almost every game gives a simultaneous sense of comedy and disbelief to how other teams have to completely compromise themselves to stop him and AND THEY STILL CAN'T.

Not only is he the MVP this year and having one of the greatest offensive seasons of all time but he has to be considered hands-down the favorite to be the MVP again next year (that is the metric I use when I say he 'eclipsed' lebron). Not to mention he is the most popular player and has become the face of the NBA.

The Warriors are still a top 5 team without Curry....they just have to play some of the better top five teams on the way to the finals.

So yeah, I agree they ain't getting far without him, but they're still a "good" team.

 

[BumRush]

You're right. Curry is 17th in TS%. But then Tyson Chandler is number one. Context needs to be applied here.

Once again, unless youre making the point that Chris Paul had a better offensive season than Curry because he's higher on the win share list, I dont see the point in arguing on that metric.

Anyways yes, I think we're talking past each other at this point. End of the day, he's in the discussion. I dont think there ahould be any debate about that

It's just a culmination of all of the stats that point elsewhere, you know? But yes, you're absolutely right...because people are even discussing it means Curry had a phenomenal season. And it was the most fun I had watching basketball in YEARS (despite the Knicks sucking outside of KP)

 

[dragonyeuw]

It's just a culmination of all of the stats that point elsewhere, you know? But yes, you're absolutely right...because people are even discussing it means Curry had a phenomenal season. And it was the most fun I had watching basketball in YEARS (despite the Knicks sucking outside of KP)

But this is where it becomes subjective. Most consider MJ the GOAT, but does he have the most rings? Nope? MVPs? Nope. Points? Nope. I mean, people take all kinds of factors, both the tangible and intangible on occassion, when making these kinds of arguments.

 

[offtopic]

The Warriors are still a top 5 team without Curry....they just have to play some of the better top five teams on the way to the finals.

So yeah, I agree they ain't getting far without him, but they're still a "good" team.

Not even close to top 5 without him. Sure, they will still win some games because Thompson, Barnes and Iggy get hot from range but without Curry warping the floor their shots get much harder and hot shooting because the exception rather than the norm.

The Warriors +/- without Curry on the floor was negative (although this is someone skewed by Curry/Green being in similar rotation pattern) and that is averaged against all teams and not the elite teams they have to play now.

 

[Nafai1123]

Not even close to top 5 without him. Sure, they will still win some games because Thompson, Barnes and Iggy get hot from range but without Curry warping the floor their shots get much harder and hot shooting because the exception rather than the norm.

The Warriors +/- without Curry on the floor was negative (although this is someone skewed by Curry/Green being in similar rotation pattern) and that is averaged against all teams and not the elite teams they have to play now.

+/- is irrelevant when the majority of the time Currys been off the floor this season has been 4th qtr garbage time. They just put up 21 3s as a team last night. Curry was responsible for 1. Their defense is arguably better with Livingston on the floor, which is already a top tier defense.

If they hit their shots, which many of them are capable of, they can run with the best. I still don't think they win best of 7 against LAC, SA, or CLE though.

 

[BumRush]

But this is where it becomes subjective. Most consider MJ the GOAT, but does he have the most rings? Nope? MVPs? Nope. Points? Nope. I mean, people take all kinds of factors, both the tangible and intangible on occassion, when making these kinds of arguments.

Again, it's a culmination.

You throw in 6 rings, 1st in career points per game, 5 MVPs, 6 Finals MVPs, Rookie of the Year, 1x Defensive POY, 9 first team all-defense, 10 scoring champs, 3 time steal leader, only scored < 20 points 150 games in his entire 1,250+ game career, top 5 career WS (but 1st in WS / 48 min), 2nd in career VORP, 1st in career Player Efficiency Rating, etc.

I mean, I'm not picking just one stat. It's a culmination. I hated the bulls as a kid. I grew up in NY with family and friends that were die hard Knicks fans and I was too. But the reason people say he's the best of all time is because of his entire body of work.

That's just the stats. There are of course intangibles too...but without the stats it would be a debate who is the GOAT when in reality it isn't.

 

[offtopic]

+/- is irrelevant when the majority of the time Currys been off the floor this season has been 4th qtr garbage time. They just put up 21 3s as a team last night. Curry was responsible for 1. Their defense is arguably better with Livingston on the floor, which is already a top tier defense.

If they hit their shots, which many of them are capable of, they can run with the best. I still don't think they win best of 7 against LAC, SA, or CLE though.

First, the majority of his time off the court hasn't come from 4th quarter garbage time. When he plays the entire game he typically sits 5 minutes at the start of the 2nd quarter and 5 minutes at the start of the 3rd quarter - that is a minimum of 10 minutes of planned rest per game (and he usually gets a little more).

Second, using one game against a broken rockets team as proof is illogical.

Last, their shots get much more difficult if Curry isn't out there as they aren't playing 4 v 3 with the worlds best shooter and probably best dribbler lurking on the periphery or driving to the basket. No more open corner 3s, and a much more congested paint area.

Look, as a warrior fan I'd love to be wrong but I've watched almost every game this year and things usually don't go very well when Curry isn't on the floor. My guess is that Clips win in 5 or 6. If they were to play the Spurs they would probably be swept.

 

[Fjordson]

Curry's MRI complete. Results coming later this afternoon, but manual tests very good. Warriors know what's going on.

according to media on twitter. Okay?

Also, does anyone else think he should go back to his Curry 2's? He's been wearing Curry 2.5's for the playoffs...

Spoiler

probably has nothing to do with it but you never know

 

[Rainy]

Vertical Sources: Steph Curry's MRI on knee has returned negative, no damage, a Grade 1 sprain. Could miss two weeks.

https://twitter.com/WojVerticalNBA/status/724678621705736193

 

[Fjordson]

https://twitter.com/WojVerticalNBA/status/724678621705736193

Well that makes things pretty tough for the second round, but this was basically the best case scenario with an MCL injury.

 

[BronsonLee]

That's some lucky shit

 

[LyleLanley]

RIP Curry.

 

[AstroLad]

That's great news. Guess the only question then is if they can take the Clips. Good thing about them is that you have multiple paths to victory, most prominently them melting down on themselves. Also I wonder if they'll be less engaged without the "Chris Paul fouls Curry 4x each play" harassment angle.

 

[Dr Duncan Steel]

Fuck the Houston towel boys! The fix was in, those salty em effers.

 

[Fjordson]

Important to note that the Warriors say he'll be "re-evaluated" in two weeks. Could miss even more time.

 

[shintoki]

Not even close to top 5 without him. Sure, they will still win some games because Thompson, Barnes and Iggy get hot from range but without Curry warping the floor their shots get much harder and hot shooting because the exception rather than the norm.

The Warriors +/- without Curry on the floor was negative (although this is someone skewed by Curry/Green being in similar rotation pattern) and that is averaged against all teams and not the elite teams they have to play now.

I would still say they are a Top 5 team. They would have been a 50 win team without Curry.

But as you said, without Curry, it's going to hurt the team tremendously, where the Spurs are definitely the better. Specifically, their range decreases a lot since the other team no longer has to guard the same distance and they become more like a normal team.

But this is where it becomes subjective. Most consider MJ the GOAT, but does he have the most rings? Nope? MVPs? Nope. Points? Nope. I mean, people take all kinds of factors, both the tangible and intangible on occassion, when making these kinds of arguments.

The arguments are subjective on who you believe is truly the best, but typically, it is the same very few people always in contention. Jordan, Magic, Bird, Russell, etc. You know who the greatest of all time are. Every single one of them are loaded with what you listed above.

 

[Mesousa]

I don't think they can beat the Clippers without him...

 

[kaiju]

Hmm 2 weeks huh?

That would make him available for Game 3 or 4 of the 2nd series, assuming GS advances. Might even be sooner, depends on how the 1st series pans out.

Not too bad but the rest of the guys are going to have to step up like they did in that second half of Game 4 to get things done while Curry heals.

 

[Fjordson]

It's pretty much the best case scenario with that injury, I was actually expecting worse.

Second round is still going to be tough as hell now, though. And they may re-evaluate Curry and have to keep him out longer than two weeks.

 

[80s Bad Guy]

I don't think they can beat the Clippers without him...

GS only needs one or two wins in that series without him and they can hold on. But nothing is certain anymore. Im not rooting for them, but I don't want to see them go down cause of injury.

 

[K.Sabot]

OKC really regretting not falling to 4th in the west now.

 

[Servbot24]

I don't think they can beat the Clippers without him...

Maybe they can get a couple games and extend the series til he's back? Though even then he'll be rusty...

 

[Pastry]

Maybe they can get a couple games and extend the series til he's back? Though even then he'll be rusty...

Yeah he would be coming off two injuries with two weeks of not playing :/ that's a tough situation.

 

[Cooter]

I wouldn't even consider bringing him back for the 2nd round series. Sit him until the conf finals if they can do it without him.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

It's pretty much the best case scenario with that injury, I was actually expecting worse.

Second round is still going to be tough as hell now, though. And they may re-evaluate Curry and have to keep him out longer than two weeks.

He could do better or worse than 2 weeks, everyone heals differently and he's going to get medical treatment 24/7.

 

[BumRush]

I wouldn't even consider bringing him back for the 2nd round series. Sit him until the conf finals if they can do it without him.

Yup. You rush him and he's just going to get hurt again or be extremely ineffective.

 

[Kickz]

This could really be the nail in the coffin for an almost disastrously bad playoffs season so far... I mean GSW vs Clippers/OKC/San Antonio/ Cavs is all we got

 

[PBY]

I wouldn't even consider bringing him back for the 2nd round series. Sit him until the conf finals if they can do it without him.

But LAC prob beat GS w/o Curry?

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Should have dumped him at the trade deadline. I hear they could have received Dion Waiters in return.

 

[Team Alucard]

But LAC prob beat GS w/o Curry?

Never ever underestimate the ability of a Chris Paul led team to choke in the playoffs. He'll find a way to prevent his team from making the WCF like he always does.

But seriously, even without Curry the Warriors can still probably take the Clippers. The Clippers are garbage. They're much closer to the bad playoff teams than they are to the good ones (Dubs, OKC, Spuds, Cavs)

 

[LyleLanley]

Should have dumped him at the trade deadline. I hear they could have received Dion Waiters in return.

Curry for James Young or R.J. Hunter but not both.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Curry for James Young or R.J. Hunter but not both.

Throw in a 2019 or 2021 second rounder and I think maybe there's a framework for a deal.

Edit: I mean, a second rounder from Golden State's side. Curry and a future second rounder for one of those players mentioned.

 

[LyleLanley]

Throw in a 2019 or 2021 second rounder and I think maybe there's a framework for a deal.

Edit: I mean, a second rounder from Golden State's side. Curry and a future second rounder for one of those players mentioned.

Players? It's one or the other. They're both younger than Curry and neither of them are injury prone.

 

[Schryver]

Clippers need to get their shit together and win in 5 based on this news. Still don't have much faith in them to actually beat GS though. Pretty sad

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Players? It's one or the other. They're both younger than Curry and neither of them are injury prone.

Adjust your bifocals, Belichik! I said "one of!"

 

[shortsFortallPeople]

I wouldn't even consider bringing him back for the 2nd round series. Sit him until the conf finals if they can do it without him.

GSW is like a 5 seed without him. They can't afford to keep him out that long because they might not even get passed the second round

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I think people are sleeping on how good this GS team really is. I think they still beat the current incarnation of the Clippers, though not easily. Most teams would kill to have Livingston/Barbosa combo as their backup PGs. Klay is still the best player on the court in that hypothetical matchup.

 

[Cooter]

But LAC prob beat GS w/o Curry?

So? Not worth a possible more severe injury.

 

[Hasphat'sAnts]

I think people are sleeping on how good this GS team really is. I think they still beat the current incarnation of the Clippers, though not easily. Most teams would kill to have Livingston/Barbosa combo as their backup PGs. Klay is still the best player on the court in that hypothetical matchup.

Chris Paul is by far the best player in a Clips Warriors series without Steph.

 

[LyleLanley]

Adjust your bifocals, Belichik! I said "one of!"

I've got to stop drinking.

 

[Red Blaster]

I think people are sleeping on how good this GS team really is. I think they still beat the current incarnation of the Clippers, though not easily. Most teams would kill to have Livingston/Barbosa combo as their backup PGs. Klay is still the best player on the court in that hypothetical matchup.

lol

 

[Elfforkusu]

Well that makes things pretty tough for the second round, but this was basically the best case scenario with an MCL injury.

.

Good news!

I want my spurs vs warriors series (e: i have no allegiances here, but I want this series) at full strength! Accept no substitutes! They need to beat the Clips without him though, will be a battle.

 

[JohnsonUT]

It is is exactly two weeks, he is missing at least three games of the next series and probably four or five.

 

[Syrus]

.

Good news!

I want my spurs vs warriors at full strength! Accept no substitutes! They need to beat the Clips without him though, will be a battle.

If thunder actually play all 4 quarters strong they should beat the spurs but thunder lacking 4th quarter finish

 

[ratcliffja]

I don't think the Clippers have won a series in less than 7 games since CP3 joined the team, so don't count on the Clippers being well rested before the second round if they even make it there. I love the Clippers, but they will be hard pressed to make it to the WCF even with Curry out.

 

[ApharmdX]

At least Curry will be back by the WCF. I don't think they beat the Spurs without him.

I think people are sleeping on how good this GS team really is. I think they still beat the current incarnation of the Clippers, though not easily. Most teams would kill to have Livingston/Barbosa combo as their backup PGs. Klay is still the best player on the court in that hypothetical matchup.

Wowzers.

 

[Abounder]

Important to note that the Warriors say he'll be "re-evaluated" in two weeks. Could miss even more time.

That is an important detail. Hopefully he can recover quickly like he did with the earlier foot injury, such a shame to lose Curry