Support NeoGAF

[Netherscourge]

Every day I feel less and less that there's some grand scheme here, like some like to say, and really just tons and tons of incompetence fostered through a candidate who never thought he had a chance and won in the last second.

I don't think that makes me feel any better, though.

I've been leaning in that direction too.

Trump may truly be nothing more than an insufferable asshole, who has no idea what he's doing and relies on everyone else until he thinks he no longer needs them or realizes they were just using him for a job or a favor or an executive order.

I think Russia TRIED to compromise him, but he's so stupid, they probably felt it was a lost cause and went for guys like Flynn and Page and Manafort instead, hoping for some kind of indirect influence over US foreign policy through them.

I really think Trump is all narcissistic ego and his agenda is just a personal grudge against Obama. Whether it be racism or maybe he just feels like Obama makes him look bad all the time, or both, Trump's whole focus is undoing anything Obama put together. That's as basic as it all might turn out to be. Just a personal grudge Trump has against Obama, the man who made fun of him at a correspondence dinner during the whole Birth Certificate nonsense.

 

[pigeon]

In the past there was a cottage industry called court intrigue, where contemporary writers and journalists were preoccupied with who was moving up and who was moving down in the power rankings within the court. And much of this speculation was pretty bad and based on weak signals from very opaque governments. Like, we had no way to know. It was a sort of fortune telling. And it's one of those things where if you're wrong, you just say "No, I was right, but stuff changed".

During the cold war there was an academic discipline called Kremlinology, that did the same thing. Tenured professors made whole careers out of speculating about what was going on in the Soviet Union. We now know they were across the board wrong. And none of them predicted the collapse of the Soviet Union, so they badly missed the most enormous prediction they needed to get right.

These kinds of things are less common in developed democracies because government is relatively transparent; you have a good public idea of what's going on and who's who at the zoo. But it still happens with Korean peninsula analysts because DPRK is obviously not transparent -- protip if you want to be an analyst of the DPRK security situation, just repeat that "Ongoing tension is troubling, as is uncertainty about the line of succession and reports of internal conflict -- but the situation is very volatile and it's hard to know for sure". Wow.

Now it's 2016-2017. Why on earth is there so much media coverage on whether Kushner, Bannon, Ivanka, Pence, Preibus, or someone else has Trump's ear? Why are we reacting strongly to little signals? Because the government is no longer transparent and we need to resort to the same methods we used to study dictatorships; mostly gossip. This is being exacerbated by a decline in media (Twitter, 24 hour cable news, overanalysis of everything) and exploited by the competing factions within the government.

America is obviously a Democracy, I'm not a hysteric person talking about the collapse of civilization. I am simply noting that the discourse around policy and around government has shifted to this degraded form more typical of the study of autocracies.

This is a really smart observation.

I actually didn't realize that all the Kremlinologists were universally wrong.

 

[Extollere]

Does this really mean anything? He's still in the administration serving as Trump's chief adviser, and national security adviser. Plus he still has clearance. Maybe they wanted him off the council, maybe we wasn't needed in the first place, or maybe it was a distraction from his time spent elsewhere. I'd like to take this as a sign of good things, but I can't tell if it really makes any difference. Is the council really important?

 

[Cyanity]

Can we deport him back to Russia?

 

[kirblar]

In the past there was a cottage industry called court intrigue, where contemporary writers and journalists were preoccupied with who was moving up and who was moving down in the power rankings within the court. And much of this speculation was pretty bad and based on weak signals from very opaque governments. Like, we had no way to know. It was a sort of fortune telling. And it's one of those things where if you're wrong, you just say "No, I was right, but stuff changed".

During the cold war there was an academic discipline called Kremlinology, that did the same thing. Tenured professors made whole careers out of speculating about what was going on in the Soviet Union. We now know they were across the board wrong. And none of them predicted the collapse of the Soviet Union, so they badly missed the most enormous prediction they needed to get right.

These kinds of things are less common in developed democracies because government is relatively transparent; you have a good public idea of what's going on and who's who at the zoo. But it still happens with Korean peninsula analysts because DPRK is obviously not transparent -- protip if you want to be an analyst of the DPRK security situation, just repeat that "Ongoing tension is troubling, as is uncertainty about the line of succession and reports of internal conflict -- but the situation is very volatile and it's hard to know for sure". Wow.

Now it's 2016-2017. Why on earth is there so much media coverage on whether Kushner, Bannon, Ivanka, Pence, Preibus, or someone else has Trump's ear? Why are we reacting strongly to little signals? Because the government is no longer transparent and we need to resort to the same methods we used to study dictatorships; mostly gossip. This is being exacerbated by a decline in media (Twitter, 24 hour cable news, overanalysis of everything) and exploited by the competing factions within the government.

America is obviously a Democracy, I'm not a hysteric person talking about the collapse of civilization. I am simply noting that the discourse around policy and around government has shifted to this degraded form more typical of the study of autocracies.

This is completely in line with the assessment that the closest point of reference for Trump is Latin American populist dictators.

 

[Netherscourge]

Does this really mean anything? He's still in the administration serving as Trump's chief adviser, and national security adviser. Plus he still has clearance. Maybe they wanted him off the council, maybe we wasn't needed in the first place, or maybe it was a distraction from his time spent elsewhere. I'd like to take this as a sign of good things, but I can't tell if it really makes any difference. Is the council really important?

The only interesting factoid is that his job was to look over Flynn's shoulder and that they knew he was dirty from the very beginning.

That's why this is bizarre. He was a spy for their own cabinet pick.

 

[mjc]

Is Spicey gonna be on today?

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

In the past there was a cottage industry called court intrigue, where contemporary writers and journalists were preoccupied with who was moving up and who was moving down in the power rankings within the court. And much of this speculation was pretty bad and based on weak signals from very opaque governments. Like, we had no way to know. It was a sort of fortune telling. And it's one of those things where if you're wrong, you just say "No, I was right, but stuff changed".

During the cold war there was an academic discipline called Kremlinology, that did the same thing. Tenured professors made whole careers out of speculating about what was going on in the Soviet Union. We now know they were across the board wrong. And none of them predicted the collapse of the Soviet Union, so they badly missed the most enormous prediction they needed to get right.

These kinds of things are less common in developed democracies because government is relatively transparent; you have a good public idea of what's going on and who's who at the zoo. But it still happens with Korean peninsula analysts because DPRK is obviously not transparent -- protip if you want to be an analyst of the DPRK security situation, just repeat that "Ongoing tension is troubling, as is uncertainty about the line of succession and reports of internal conflict -- but the situation is very volatile and it's hard to know for sure". Wow.

Now it's 2016-2017. Why on earth is there so much media coverage on whether Kushner, Bannon, Ivanka, Pence, Preibus, or someone else has Trump's ear? Why are we reacting strongly to little signals? Because the government is no longer transparent and we need to resort to the same methods we used to study dictatorships; mostly gossip. This is being exacerbated by a decline in media (Twitter, 24 hour cable news, overanalysis of everything) and exploited by the competing factions within the government.

America is obviously a Democracy, I'm not a hysteric person talking about the collapse of civilization. I am simply noting that the discourse around policy and around government has shifted to this degraded form more typical of the study of autocracies.

Oddly, I'd argue that its operations are more out in the open than any White House before it. Genuine leaks all over the place in a never before seen fashion. It's just that it's being run by a twitchy impulsive person whose catch phrase is literally "you're fired." Nobody he wasn't related to made it through more than a few months of his campaign, either.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

"We all knew Flynn had issues" then why put him on the pay roll?!

 

[Bruce Springsteen]

It made no sense for Bannon to be on the NSC in the first place

 

[Zeus Molecules]

I've been leaning in that direction too.

Trump may truly be nothing more than an insufferable asshole, who has no idea what he's doing and relies on everyone else until he thinks he no longer needs them or realizes they were just using him for a job or a favor or an executive order.

I think Russia TRIED to compromise him, but he's so stupid, they probably felt it was a lost cause and went for guys like Flynn and Page and Manafort instead, hoping for some kind of indirect influence over US foreign policy through them.

I really think Trump is all narcissistic ego and his agenda is just a personal grudge against Obama. Whether it be racism or maybe he just feels like Obama makes him look bad all the time, or both, Trump's whole focus is undoing anything Obama put together. That's as basic as it all might turn out to be. Just a personal grudge Trump has against Obama, the man who made fun of him at a correspondence dinner during the whole Birth Certificate nonsense.

Except the Pee Pee tape possibility and the server being in his building..... and all the signs that he has been involved in some way in laundering money for the Russian mob......

Trump isn't just an innocent bystander. There are certain ties to Russia that are rumored to lead to him directly

 

[Stumpokapow]

I actually didn't realize that all the Kremlinologists were universally wrong.

I mean, it's a simplification -- I was trying to figure out how to tell the whole story in 3 or 4 paragraphs -- but the sort of top-line meta-analysis of kremlinology has been: 1) on the collapse question, some people predicted it would occur, but no one got the timeline (often off by decades) or causes correct; the majority opinion was flatly wrong at the time just before the collapse. 2) in terms of the internal positioning, opening and closing of communication, and purges, and shuffling of high-level members, almost everyone was wrong almost all the time.

Of course, again, it's an invincible defence because if you were wrong you are just speaking to the fluidity of the situation! I was right ten seconds ago but I'm not now!

 

[Extollere]

The only interesting factoid is that his job was to look over Flynn's shoulder and that they knew he was dirty from the very beginning.

That's why this is bizarre. He was a spy for their own cabinet pick.

I'm not sure that's entirely true. Flynn got ousted, and they could be using his liability as an excuse as to why they needed Bannon in the first place, or why they might need to demote him. This kinda falls in line with the fact that even Trump was encouraging Flynn to testify for immunity (which of course raises suspicion as to what his testimony did or didn't entail) and that request was denied. If this administration can deflect responsibility from anyone they can safely distance themselves from they will.

from CNN:

The Trump White House sought to spin the Bannon decision not as a demotion but rather a natural conclusion to his initial appointment to the principals committee. But, that doesn't really check out. If Bannon's position on the NSC was always meant to be temporary why not say that from the outset?

To be clear: Bannon will remain in the White House -- and in a senior role. But the diminution of his power -- and in such a public way -- is a clear sign that a shakeup in the Trump power structure is under way.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/05/politics/steve-bannon-national-security-council/index.html

 

[Ogodei]

DoE was historically part of the council anyway, it was Bannon and Flynn who shuffled that out.

I have heard that the new factions have Bannon allied with Priebus and its Cohn, Miller, and Kushner who are forming the opposite flank.

 

[zelas]

"We all knew Flynn had issues" then why put him on the pay roll?!

As a favor to Russia or because they actually didnt know.

 

[Stinkles]

As a favor to Russia or because they actually didnt know.

More frightening is that his issues weren't meaningfully different from theirs. His bigger issue was that the military already knew he was a clown.

 

[Joel Was Right]

I can't see Perry lasting long if he's expected to contribute to the NSC meetings.

 

[Stinkles]

I can't see Perry lasting long if he's expected to contribute to the NSC meetings.

"We need to stop worrying about Russia and start gittin' serious with them Soviets!"

 

[Extollere]

I have heard that the new factions have Bannon allied with Priebus and its Cohn, Miller, and Kushner who are forming the opposite flank.

It's completely dysfunctional.

But no, Bannon was a part of a master plan to spy on Flynn whom the administration was savvy enough to suspect and keep eyes on while juggling everything else! /s

You can't trust anything the WH says anymore. Maybe Bannon was just there to keep tabs on Flynn, maybe not. But they no longer have the credibility to have anything they say taken at face value.

 

[Electric Eye]

It was Tillerson, not Perry.

Perry being there is fine given that the DoE is responsible for our nukes. And also because he's actually got history in governance.

I don't considered governing Texas as some major accomplishment. Texas constitution limits a governors powers and he/she is hardly ever there to govern. Why Texas governors are ever seen as presidential material is beyond me (see W. )

 

[a.wd]

So this is the first move towards making flynn the patsy.

Which means that flynn better start getting out ahead of the coming maelstrom, ain't no dump like a trump dump.

 

[kirblar]

I don't considered governing Texas as some major accomplishment. Texas constitution limits a governors powers and he/she is hardly ever there to govern. Why Texas governors are ever seen as presidential material is beyond me (see W. )

Our standards are pretty low right now.

Nikki Haley seems to be the most competent person in this administration by a mile (aside from McMaster, who couldn't say no to his appointment and isn't a politician) which is crazy.

 

[Surfinn]

No Spicey today? Wanna see the spin.

 

[Dan]

What in the hell is the thought process behind saying Bannon was there to look over Flynn's shoulder? Whether it's the truth or rewritten history, doesn't that make the Trump administration look even worse?

 

[smokeymicpot]

No Spicey today? Wanna see the spin.

Nope Trump had a press conference instead.

 

[Blizzard]

This is an improvement, but CNN reports he will still be allowed to "attend any meeting" where his expertise is needed.

 

[Krakatoa]

Maybe Bannon was the leaker?

 

[Guy.brush]

Hope this is not some secret bargaining with the IC so they back off from a proper investigation.

 

[Zeus Molecules]

It's not as bizarre once you remind yourself that these guys are actually, no sarcasm or hyperbole intended, fucking stupid. Almost to a man.

They truly think they're pulling a crazy complex trick with that Flynn comment (it covers our asses on two issues at once! Brilliant!) But because they're all sociopaths with degrees in business management from Sizzler they don't realize how blatantly idiotic that statement sounds and that it just makes them look either dangerously incompetent or like dumb liars.

When you're the living embodiment of the stupid guy's idea of a smart guy, you do stuff like bringing up another bad issue you shouldn't be reminding anybody of. Also see: professional dumb ass Jeff Sessions perjuring himself unnecessarily to Al Franken.

And with Rick Perry as the bookend to this story you best believe there will be more moments of prime stupidity on display. These dorks were meant to be road crew guys who aren't allowed to work with any of the dangerous tools, but their families had the cash to catapault them over the walls of the business/political class.

I think this summarizes today perfectly

 

[Chittagong]

So, just to check I got this right.

1 - Bannon slips in an EO putting himself to NSC, trusting Trump never reads what he signs
2 - Trump signs EO without reading it
3 - After hearing from Fox News about Bannon's promotion he goes full rage, "wtf man?!"
4 - But oh shit! Trump can't just remove Bannon immediately as that is a bad look to rock
5 - So Trump tells Bannon not to go to the meetings, because after the dust has settled in a half a year, he'll be removed
6 - Trump is not a patient man, so he can only bear to wait two months, until the urge to sign a new EO (undoing the one he mistakenly signed) becomes uncontrollable
7 - Spicey contrives a spin so complex nobody can really make sense of it, using weird and complicated words that sound important

 

[Dr. Benton Quest]

Now see - that part right there makes this whole thing sound really really suspicious.

1. Why was he looking over Flynn's shoulder in the first place?
2. Did they KNOW Flynn was dirty even back when they first picked him for the job? [EDIT - yea, apparently they did know.]
3. Why put a guy you know is dirty in your cabinet in the first place? So much so that you had to keep a spy on him?
4. Why even admit to it publicly? Is this some sorry-ass attempt to distance themselves from Flynn? But THEY picked him for the job in the first place, apparently knowing he was dirty.

This makes no sense. Making that statement above about keeping an eye on Flynn is very damaging to the Trump administration. Do they even realize how that sounds?

It sounds like they want to play hero when Flynn spills the beans.

Removing him is all win for them. They get Bannon off the NSC which a lot of people wanted, and they build their defense against Flynn in the process.

 

[Dan]

Hope this is not some secret bargaining with the IC so they back off from a proper investigation.

I don't think that would make any sense. Most likely McMaster wanted him out and Trump was annoyed that he got duped into putting Bannon on there in the first place, and also by the attention Bannon has received.

 

[Chmpocalypse]

This is a really smart observation.

I actually didn't realize that all the Kremlinologists were universally wrong.

Seconded, great post.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

So, just to check I got this right.

1 - Bannon slips in an EO putting himself to NSC, trusting Trump never reads what he signs
2 - Trump signs EO without reading it
3 - After hearing from Fox News about Bannon's promotion he goes full rage, "wtf man?!"
4 - But oh ****! Trump can't just remove Bannon immediately as that is a bad look to rock
5 - So Trump tells Bannon not to go to the meetings, because after the dust has settled in a half a year, he'll be removed
6 - Trump is not a patient man, so he can only bear to wait two months, until the urge to sign a new EO (undoing the one he mistakenly signed) becomes uncontrollable
7 - Spicey contrives a spin so complex nobody can really make sense of it, using a weird and complicated words that sound important

Looks legit.

 

[studyguy]

https://twitter.com/TomNamako/status/849695710203215872

@johnrobertsFox: "The president wasn't particularly happy at the way Bannon had been grabbing the limelight…"

No narcissist, no narcissist, you're the narcissist!

 

[ivajz]

https://twitter.com/TomNamako/status/849695710203215872


No narcissist, no narcissist, you're the narcissist!

So to defeat Bannon, we need to up the amount of president Bannon in the media.

 

[Zeus Molecules]

It sounds like they want to play hero when Flynn spills the beans.

Removing him is all win for them. They get Bannon off the NSC which a lot of people wanted, and they build their defense against Flynn in the process.

Or they know some stuff about Bannon is about to leak and it's better if he steps down now because he chose to than is forced to recuse himself like Sessions.

 

[radios shipping overview]

https://twitter.com/TomNamako/status/849695710203215872


No narcissist, no narcissist, you're the narcissist!

Sounds like the President Bannon accusations stung a bit.

 

[Dan]

It sounds like they want to play hero when Flynn spills the beans.

Removing him is all win for them. They get Bannon off the NSC which a lot of people wanted, and they build their defense against Flynn in the process.

I'm not sure how you spin knowing Flynn needed watching over weeks before forcing his resignation as a win. That would be some real mental gymnastics. Staunch Trump supporters might buy it, but they'd buy anything.

 

[ZOONAMI]

So maybe the few adults around can convince dumpster that Bannon is a clown. Hopefully.

 

[Chittagong]

https://twitter.com/TomNamako/status/849695710203215872


No narcissist, no narcissist, you're the narcissist!

The blueprint for getting under Trump's skin:

 

[ZOONAMI]

The blueprint for getting under Trump's skin:

Yep, if the press wants to keep putting the hammer on trump a good way to do it is to keep reporting on how he isn't running the show.

 

[jelly]

That a wig?

 

[rambis]

The position is one thing, but him not having his clearance revoked is very telling. You can't just walk around with one of those things without a position that requires it. He's likely still very close to Trump...

 

[kaching]

So do I need to watch Judge Jeanine tonight?

 

[Surfinn]

So do I need to watch Judge Jeanine tonight?

"The president keeps getting blamed for Obama's failures. AND I HATE IT"

 

[Akuun]

Man, Bannon looks like he's dying of like 50 different diseases every time I see a photo of him.

 

[Leona Lewis]

That a wig?

No, the part is too clean.

 

[EdibleKnife]

Man, Bannon looks like he's dying of like 50 different diseases every time I see a photo of him.

Lol right. His rotten insides are seeping to his outsides

 

[Slime]

https://twitter.com/TomNamako/status/849695710203215872


No narcissist, no narcissist, you're the narcissist!

Hahaha, it worked.