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[Bit-Bit]

People using the "it's not listed under ... therefore it's not...." is bullcrap. Our understanding of mental diseases is still in its infant. I'm sure there are still many things not listed under some list that would one day qualify. It's called Science. That means our understanding of things are malleable and based on evidence. Not based on what we feel should happen to a group of people that are too taboo for any meaningful research to be done on them.

I've always lived my life by saying "If I don't stand up for others, then who will stand up for me?"

I hope that many of you can remove your emotions from this conversation and put yourself into other people's shoes. Although I recognize that it's hard to do so.

Again, I'm reposting this so that many of us can have a more informed view of the situation.

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/522/tarred-and-feathered

In it is an interview of people who know that pedophilia is wrong in our society and are actively trying to seek help and not finding any. It is a failure of society that we don't acknowledge that pedophilia is a mental disease and that those who are afflicted with it are victims of their own mind.

 

[Burger]

Why not?

Honeypots are not entrapment. The person must commit an offence of their own initiative.

These people are knowingly messaging minors sexually explicit material despite being told that they are minors.

Also entrapment as a defence only applies against an officer of the law.

 

[A Link to the Past]

I know you're trying to mean no harm, but the fact that say it is the most common prejudiced stereotype reinforces it. It's the train station for racial profiling. Even if a black person can laugh at the stereotype, he still hears it and would probably wonder if others think that way, and such a thought can manifest.

And what, homosexuals? What are they supposedly stereotypically prejudiced to do? Be gay?

I wasn't saying stereotyped by, say, you or I (or someone on this forum). Hopefully, anyway. I was referring to your typical Bible Belt conservative that thinks that gay people are deviant, that they are child molesters (this is not a rare viewpoint), etc. Pedophilia is indisputably worse than homosexuality - there's no denying that. At the same time though, the point is that we wouldn't use the kind of rhetoric against anyone else that we use against pedophiles (regardless of whether they want to molest/are molesting children or are struggling to fight their urges).

 

[Izuna]

Anyone know any studies that show the curing or inability to correct this particular trait? Would possibly benefit discussion.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Sorry but I have no sympathy for pedophiles, especially not the ones that are actively walking up to a house ready to have sex with a child. Those ones especially deserve ridicule. I do have the slightest sympathy for the minority of pedos that think it's wrong and seek help.

 

[AbsolutBro]

People using the "it's not listed under ... therefore it's not...." is bullcrap. Our understanding of mental diseases is still in its infant. I'm sure there are still many things not listed under some list that would one day qualify. It's called Science. That means our understanding of things are malleable and based on evidence. Not based on what we feel should happen to a group of people that are too taboo for any meaningful research to be done on them.

I've always lived my life by saying "If I don't stand up for others, then who will stand up for me?"

I hope that many of you can remove your emotions from this conversation and put yourself into other people's shoes. Although I recognize that it's hard to do so.

Again, I'm reposting this so that many of us can have a more informed view of the situation.

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/522/tarred-and-feathered

In it is an interview of people who know that pedophilia is wrong in our society and are actively trying to seek help and not finding any. It is a failure of society that we don't acknowledge that pedophilia is a mental disease and that those who are afflicted with it are victims of their own mind.

I would like to supplement this fantastic post with another link:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/2003-07-28-pedophile-tumor_x.htm

This is the story of a man on trial for pedophelia (among other things). During the trail it was discovered he had an egg sized brain tumor. When doctors removed the tumor, all his lewd behaviour (including his pedophilic desires) went away. When the tumor returned later, so did the behaviour.

The takeaway from this should be that we still have no real idea what causes this in people. And that we should remember that they are just that: people. Human beings. Human beings who need help, not torches and pitchforks.

 

[Izuna]

I wasn't saying stereotyped by, say, you or I (or someone on this forum). Hopefully, anyway. I was referring to your typical Bible Belt conservative that thinks that gay people are deviant, that they are child molesters (this is not a rare viewpoint), etc. Pedophilia is indisputably worse than homosexuality - there's no denying that. At the same time though, the point is that we wouldn't use the kind of rhetoric against anyone else that we use against pedophiles (regardless of whether they want to molest/are molesting children or are struggling to fight their urges).

I usually get told that I am always arguing semantics, but a sentence such as "Paedophilia is indisputably worse than homosexuality" implies that they are similar afflictions (making either the former a sexual orientation or the latter a mental illness) and/or that homosexuality is bad.

But pulling this back on topic, I can imagine that there are some that are just awful people wanting to cause harm, but we imagine that paedophiles are specific to liking kids and that it isn't a thought that passes -- so it's not clear if it's an illness or what have you. I don't know enough to witch hunt myself, so unless Stinson is somehow an expert, I think there is a possibility he could be handling this situation wrong.

I would like to supplement this fantastic post with another link:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/2003-07-28-pedophile-tumor_x.htm

This is the story of a man on trial for pedophelia (among other things). During the trail it was discovered he had an egg sized brain tumor. When doctors removed the tumor, all his lewd behaviour (including his pedophilic desires) went away. When the tumor returned later, so did the behaviour.

The takeaway from this should be that we still have no real idea what causes this in people. And that we should remember that they are just that: people. Human beings. Human beings who need help, not torches and pitchforks.

Thank you for posting this. Wasn't going to search myself haha. This isn't something that should be aired on television, let professionals give help to the sick.

Imagine if he went all Jeremy Kyle on them. "You sick, evil despicable human being you should be ashamed that you were even born."

 

[Jimmyfenix]

Is there only one episode ? It says on the channel 4 website that the programme is coming on again at 10pm. I presume it is a repeat ?

 

[Darklord]

You're comparing one time events with people with mental disorders that give them the desire to do it routinely. An idle threat is nothing like someone who has a disorder that gives them a constant urge to do horrible things. If you told me "I constantly feel like killing someone and have to fight back the urges to kill someone every day." then yes, you probably have a problem and shouldn't be allowed out in society.

What do you think happens at mental hospitals? Have you ever been to one? They take care of the residents, they get therapy and treat them like humans. They get exactly what you're describing from a mental institution, yet you're here telling me that putting people in a mental institution is bad.

There was a documentary about a little girl who was sexually molested by her Dad as a little kid(as in 1 year old). After it, even as a little girl she had the traits of a serial killer and a psychopathy. She'd casually say how she wants to stab and kill her foster parents in their sleep, hurt animals, hurt her brother including trying to sexually abuse him. Her eyes were just blank and cold without any emotion. She was mentally disturbed and broken. She was put in a foster home designed for abused kids. She was given therapy and love and care and eventually it helped her. Even when she was a bit older, about 7 or 8 she'd cry thinking about how she used to be because she felt bad. She'll probably never be fully normal but she doesn't have those terrible urges any more. If she was just tossed in a cell away from society she'd have had no chance at a normal life.

If people pushed to help pedophiles get help then that persons live would be better and it would seriously lower any risk of them acting out towards a kid. The fact that they have to suppress the urges and be too scared to seek any help because they'd be seen as a monster or tossed away out of society just makes things ten times worse.

 

[OverBlood 3]

Labelling paedophiles as scum and calling them subhuman does nothing to help understand why they're like that. I have no sympathy for people who act on their desire to have sex with children because it's wrong. But I do feel sympathy for those who feel that way inclined but do not act upon it, I can't imagine it's the nicest thing in the world.

This sort of thing in the documentary is dangerous because mistakes can be and have been made, people who aren't paedophiles have become caught up in other people's idiocy thats why it should be left to the law and the proper authorities.

Also there's a distinction between paedophiles and hebephiles.

ICD-10
"Paedophilia
A sexual preference for children, boys or girls or both, usually of prepubertal or early pubertal age."
http://apps.who.int/classifications/icd10/browse/2010/en#/F65.4

Also I don't have access to DSM-5 (it costs money) but I found this on wikipedia
"It is termed pedophilic disorder in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), and the manual defines it as a paraphilia in which adults or adolescents 16 years of age or older have intense and recurrent sexual urges towards and fantasies about prepubescent children that they have either acted on or which cause them distress or interpersonal difficulty."

 

[Angelus Errare]

Gotta love when someone compares the struggles of a paedophile to being black.

 

[Pezking]

One comment by Stinson when asked about a man who committed suicide shortly afterwards was "I didn't do that, he did, I simply held the mirror up."

Yeah. Right.

I'm fine with him handing the evidence he collected over to the police, but publicly shaming those guys by posting videos of them online is going way too far. That suicide surely is a direct consequence of that. Stinson didn't just hold up a mirror. By publishing those videos online, he drives those people into a corner, and it's not that unlikely that such a sudden desperation triggers a suicide. And he obviously doesn't give two shits about that.

And I don't like that part of the story at all.

What I do appreciate is that he cares about this problem so much that he actually goes out there and does something about it. That kind of civil courage is truly remarkable.
But he should care a lot more about the consequences of his actions, for all the people involved.

Nobody should die because of his vigilantism.

 

[DY_nasty]

There was a documentary about a little girl who was sexually molested by her Dad as a little kid(as in 1 year old). After it, even as a little girl she had the traits of a serial killer and a psychopathy. She'd casually say how she wants to stab and kill her foster parents in their sleep, hurt animals, hurt her brother including trying to sexually abuse him. Her eyes were just blank and cold without any emotion. She was mentally disturbed and broken. She was put in a foster home designed for abused kids. She was given therapy and love and care and eventually it helped her. Even when she was a bit older, about 7 or 8 she'd cry thinking about how she used to be because she felt bad. She'll probably never be fully normal but she doesn't have those terrible urges any more. If she was just tossed in a cell away from society she'd have had no chance at a normal life.

If people pushed to help pedophiles get help then that persons live would be better and it would seriously lower any risk of them acting out towards a kid. The fact that they have to suppress the urges and be too scared to seek any help because they'd be seen as a monster or tossed away out of society just makes things ten times worse.

seeking help before destroying a kid's life would probably do a lot for their image

#notallpedos

 

[rpmurphy]

Never really watched much of Chris Hansen's show, but has his show ever pretended to be an underage male and trapped female pedophiles?

 

[Ingueferroque]

This is disgusting.

 

[FreeMufasa]

Pedophile defence force.........the Absoloutle worse.

And please don't compare black ppl to pedos in anyway. Thanks.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

There was a documentary about a little girl who was sexually molested by her Dad as a little kid(as in 1 year old). After it, even as a little girl she had the traits of a serial killer and a psychopathy. She'd casually say how she wants to stab and kill her foster parents in their sleep, hurt animals, hurt her brother including trying to sexually abuse him. Her eyes were just blank and cold without any emotion. She was mentally disturbed and broken. She was put in a foster home designed for abused kids. She was given therapy and love and care and eventually it helped her. Even when she was a bit older, about 7 or 8 she'd cry thinking about how she used to be because she felt bad. She'll probably never be fully normal but she doesn't have those terrible urges any more. If she was just tossed in a cell away from society she'd have had no chance at a normal life.

If people pushed to help pedophiles get help then that persons live would be better and it would seriously lower any risk of them acting out towards a kid. The fact that they have to suppress the urges and be too scared to seek any help because they'd be seen as a monster or tossed away out of society just makes things ten times worse.

Putting people in mental institutions does help. That part of the point of them, and was literally part of the reason they were started in the first place That's why when some people commit crimes, instead of going to prison, they go to mental institutions to get help for their disorders. Putting a pedophile in a mental institution WOULD BE getting them help, because it's a place where people with mental disorders go to get therapy and help with their problems.

I don't even know what you're arguing anymore, because everything you're saying should be done is done at mental hospitals, but you're still here telling me that mental hospitals shouldn't be used to help people with mental disorders.

 

[Izuna]

Pedophile defence force.........the Absoloutle worse.

And please don't compare black ppl to pedos in anyway. Thanks.

There is no paedophile defence force, just disagreeing with Stinson's methods.
I'm certain ISPs could easily find thousands of paedophiles with a simple SQL query, but don't because a situation like the above is possible.

 

[xenist]

I'm all for for getting everyone the help they need. Up until the point they hurt someone. Then they have to pay and then get help. These guys chose, went out of their way, to try and fuck a kid. The first thing they need is to go to jail. There they can get all the help they want.

Your actions are what defines you. Wanting to fuck kids doesn't make you a criminal. Trying to act, or actually acting on it does.

 

[Slayven]

At least you're honest about dehumanizing people with a condition that literally anyone could have.

So being black is a dehumanizing condition?

 

[Godan]

Mental health issue or not its still wrong and they should have to stuffer the consequences of their actions which they know is against the law.


Its like when someone does something fucked uplike kill people or this then say " awww but he has mental health problems " it don't make this shit ok.


They should get the corresponding punishment for the crime they have just made.

 

[Volimar]

^Absolutely true. I just differ on what the consequences should be. It doesn't help that there doesn't seem to be as yet a definitive treatment for pedophilia.

I imagine it must be awful for the people that struggle with it. They know it's wrong, I'm sure it disgusts them on some level.

So being black is a dehumanizing condition?

Wut?

 

[A Link to the Past]

Gotta love when someone compares the struggles of a paedophile to being black.

I'm comparing the rhetoric that all pedophiles are scum to the rhetoric that all blacks are scum. The point was basically "imagine how stupid you would sound if you swapped pedophile out for black." There is a non-trivial number of people who are not in fact scum, who are actually people who suffered trauma themselves, that have these urges, so grouping them with those who are actively seeking to molest children is disingenuous.

 

[Kart94]

Pedophile defence force.........the Absoloutle worse.

And please don't compare black ppl to pedos in anyway. Thanks.

someone seriously compared blacks to pedos?

 

[Captain_Spanky]

Pedophile defence force.........the Absoloutle worse.

And please don't compare black ppl to pedos in anyway. Thanks.

Yeah just dismiss an entire ethical debate with "defense force". That's a worthwhile contribution.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Wut?

The person compared thinking all black people are thugs with thinking all pedophiles want to molest children, and then went on to say we shouldn't dehumanize pedophiles. As a black person I'm quite offended with my race being compared to a pedophile.

 

[BattleMedic]

Fuck them, this guy does a good job, if they're turning up to fuck children then they don't deserve their freedom.

Turn them over to police and let them decide what to do with them.

 

[Izuna]

I'm all for for getting everyone the help they need. Up until the point they hurt someone. Then they have to pay and then get help. These guys chose, went out of their way, to try and fuck a kid. The first thing they need is to go to jail. There they can get all the help they want.

Your actions are what defines you. Wanting to fuck kids doesn't make you a criminal. Trying to act, or actually acting on it does.

It's hard to give my opinion because I agree here. They went to the house with intent. I just don't know if any 11y/o would have ever said the things Stinson did and if they would have ever done acted on anyone else, assuming they weren't already convicts who snatched children from streets.

There is a comedy video on a different topic however "bro rape". Not sure if it's worth linking as it's easy to find on YouTube.

 

[A Link to the Past]

The person compared thinking all black people are thugs with thinking all pedophiles want to molest children, and then went on to say we shouldn't dehumanize pedophiles. As a black person I'm quite offended with my race being compared to a pedophile.

So you legitimately don't think it's wrong to accuse people who are struggling to fight their urges of wanting to have sex with children?

 

[Volimar]

Fuck them, this guy does a good job, if they're turning up to fuck children then they don't deserve their freedom.

Turn them over to police and let them decide what to do with them.

If that's all he was doing, I think a lot of people's problem with him would disappear.

The person compared thinking all black people are thugs with thinking all pedophiles want to molest children, and then went on to say we shouldn't dehumanize pedophiles. As a black person I'm quite offended with my race being compared to a pedophile.

It wasn't "black people are like pedos", it was just a not very well said rebuttal.

 

[DY_nasty]

There is no paedophile defence force, just disagreeing with Stinson's methods.
I'm certain ISPs could easily find thousands of paedophiles with a simple SQL query, but don't because a situation like the above is possible.

there is absofuckinglutely a pedophile defense force

this thread didn't even make it a page before people started trying to slowly whittle away at the pedophile 'stigma'

 

[Slayven]

^Absolutely true. I just differ on what the consequences should be. It doesn't help that there doesn't seem to be as yet a definitive treatment for pedophilia.

I imagine it must be awful for the people that struggle with it. They know it's wrong, I'm sure it disgusts them on some level.



Wut?

He invoked Natural's law, I want to see if he takes it to the his line of logic's end.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

there is absofuckinglutely a pedophile defense force

this thread didn't even make it a page before people started trying to slowly whittle away at the pedophile 'stigma'

1st post I believe

 

[J-Rod]

Won't someone please think of the pedophiles ; ;

 

[DY_nasty]

So you legitimately don't think it's wrong to accuse people who are struggling to fight their urges of wanting to have sex with children?

fuck you

 

[OverBlood 3]

fuck you

How is that helpful?

 

[Izuna]

there is absofuckinglutely a pedophile defense force

this thread didn't even make it a page before people started trying to slowly whittle away at the pedophile 'stigma'

Well at least there is a discussion rather than the obvious comments of "these dudes are super sick". It's not a defence force as so much as there is criticism of the program.

I don't like that disagreeing what Stinson is doing is somehow defending paedophiles, as a whole.

How is that helpful?

In this particular case though...

 

[A Link to the Past]

Won't someone please think of the pedophiles ; ;

Ironically, that's the exact right rhetoric. We as a society aren't making things better by dehumanizing all pedophiles - regardless of their intent or actions - as monsters. If we want proper change, we need to accept that there are, in fact, pedophiles who want to not have the urges, many of whom suffered at the hands of a pedophile themselves when they were young.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

I'm comparing the rhetoric that all pedophiles are scum to the rhetoric that all blacks are scum. The point was basically "imagine how stupid you would sound if you swapped pedophile out for black." There is a non-trivial number of people who are not in fact scum, who are actually people who suffered trauma themselves, that have these urges, so grouping them with those who are actively seeking to molest children is disingenuous.

It's a terrible comparison because black people as a group don't have a mental conditions that influences or compels them to do bad things. If a black person does something bad, or wants to do something bad, it's not because he's black. It's because of some kind of outside influence. So every black person shouldn't be assumed to do bad things, because there is nothing about being black that makes you do bad things.

If a pedophile is a pedophile, it's because he's catagorized in a group of people who are known to do bad things or at the very least, have the desire to do bad things. There are not innocent people in the group of pedophiles that don't want to have sex with kids, but are unfairly lumped in with pedophiles and judged on desires they don't actually have.

 

[DY_nasty]

How is that helpful?

you tell me how its helpful comparing blacks to people who pray on children


and dude is still thinking that there's a point to be made by it. this has zero to do with being 'helpful'.

 

[Crossing Eden]

So you legitimately don't think it's wrong to accuse people who are struggling to fight their urges of wanting to have sex with children?

I think it's wrong to compare "the thought that all black people are thugs" and "the thought that all pedophiles want to have sex with children" because those are two clearly different things, pedophiles aren't a race, a comparison to racism isn't valid. And no, these people were walking up to the door, they weren't fighting their urges.

 

[A Link to the Past]

fuck you

Going back to your comment, no. Like I've said to multiple people (read more plz), I am not comparing being black to being a pedophile. I'm comparing the dehuminization of pedophiles to the dehuminization of black people. Neither is right. A person should not be judged on elements of themselves that are beyond their control, they should be judged by their actions or beliefs. If a pedophile actively does not want to be a pedophile, why should that person be considered a lesser person?

 

[OverBlood 3]

This black/paedophile comparison is absolutely ridiculous and unhelpful to the discussion. So stupid.

you tell me how its helpful comparing blacks to people who pray on children


and dude is still thinking that there's a point to be made by it. this has zero to do with being 'helpful'.

I don't disagree with you, but why not just say that instead of 'fuck you' it doesn't add anything to the discussion.

 

[Reversed]

For a second I thought of the Paedofinder General cartoon shorts.

 

[Izuna]

you tell me how its helpful comparing blacks to people who pray on children


and dude is still thinking that there's a point to be made by it. this has zero to do with being 'helpful'.

I wish he'd apologise at the very least. I mean, comparison of shagging kids with being black, regardless of what point he is trying to make, just shouldn't be such a defended point...

 

[DY_nasty]

Going back to your comment, no. Like I've said to multiple people (read more plz), I am not comparing being black to being a pedophile. I'm comparing the dehuminization of pedophiles to the dehuminization of black people. Neither is right. A person should not be judged on elements of themselves that are beyond their control, they should be judged by their actions or beliefs. If a pedophile actively does not want to be a pedophile, why should that person be considered a lesser person?

and again, fuck. you.

 

[Burger]

Yeah. Right.

I'm fine with him handing the evidence he collected over to the police, but publicly shaming those guys by posting videos of them online is going way too far. That suicide surely is a direct consequence of that. Stinson didn't just hold up a mirror. By publishing those videos online, he drives those people into a corner, and it's not that unlikely that such a sudden desperation triggers a suicide. And he obviously doesn't give two shits about that.

And I don't like that part of the story at all.

What I do appreciate is that he cares about this problem so much that he actually goes out there and does something about it. That kind of civil courage is truly remarkable.
But he should care a lot more about the consequences of his actions, for all the people involved.

Nobody should die because of his vigilantism.

It's tragic, especially as he left his own child without a father.

But it really comes down to choices. He made a series of bad choices which led to him being outed as a predatory paedophile, and he made the choice to end his life.

He chose to do all of those things and he made the choice to end his life. Terrible sure, but they were all choices.

I don't blame Stinson for any of it.

 

[Kart94]

and again, fuck. you.

lol wait, he actually said that? that doesn't even make sense.

 

[A Link to the Past]

I think it's wrong to compare "the thought that all black people are thugs" and "the thought that all pedophiles want to have sex with children" because those are two clearly different things, pedophiles aren't a race, a comparison to racism isn't valid. And no, these people were walking up to the door, they weren't fighting their urges.

Rest assured, I have never once come to the defense of the people in the documentary beyond the fact that I pity what they became, in the same way I pity that Dahmer became what he became. What I am defending against is the idea of grouping those who struggle with their urges with people who actively prey on children - I'm really trying to make that clear, but people like DY_nasty are convinced that I am defending molestation(?).

 

[DY_nasty]

This black/paedophile comparison is absolutely ridiculous and unhelpful to the discussion. So stupid.



I don't disagree with you, but why not just say that instead of 'fuck you' it doesn't add anything to the discussion.

fuck a discussion

PLEASE let me get banned for returning the blatant insult this motherfucker just sent at me and everyone that looks like me

bless everyone