It is disgusting, insulting, and shows how little thought and empathy folks give to black people.
Stinson - The Paedophile Hunter
- Thread starter Burger
- Start date
- Status
It is disgusting, insulting, and shows how little thought and empathy folks give to black people.
No one is defending pedophiles. No one is saying anyone has the right to molest children. People are saying that pedophiles should be treated as people suffering from mental illness, and not as inhuman monsters. Treating them that way, playing up the "stigma" as you say just drives them from seeking help. Who wants to be labeled a monster for urges they don't want to have in the first place? No one thinks that child molesters shouldn't be punished, and if someone acts with intent to harm a child they should absolutely be stopped. But shows like this could be doing more harm in the long run by forcing people who might seek help away for fear of me stigmatized. I'm not sure how to say it any more plainly than that.
If this guy wanted to really help with his stings, he'd hand evidence to the proper authorites and let that be it instead of parading them around as his personal freak show.
OverBlood 3
Banned
Fair enough, it is insulting to even have it mentioned in the same breath.
Besides if these guys were inhuman, then the police could investigate their computers and possibly find their ring or whatever. It's more effective still.
A Link to the Past
Banned
I apologize for comparing them, but at the same time, when did I mention people who had sex with children? At all points in this thread, I have specified that my defense was only for those who are trying to seek help and not be this way.
To clarify though, the utter outrage re: the comparison really demonstrates how shitty it is to be afflicted with these urges and why people are so danged afraid of getting help.
pls
if these predators were half as serious about getting help as they were about creating multiple fake accounts, identities, and travel arrangements then you'd see a self-run pedophilia help clinics across the country. but clearly this isn't about being stonewalled
at fucking all
Burger
Member
Donations flood in for Paedophile Hunter Stinson Hunter as he plans to continue controversial work.
http://metro.co.uk/2014/10/02/donat...plans-to-continue-controversial-work-4889928/
http://metro.co.uk/2014/10/02/donat...plans-to-continue-controversial-work-4889928/
THOSE POOR PEOPLE
literally the new niggers
fuck you and that weak ass backpedal. OP doesn't have shit to do with some guy luring pedos looking for help into basements filled with naked little boys
A Link to the Past
Banned
Let me again remind you that I am discussing people who don't want to be pedophiles, who don't want these urges. I am not discussing or defending people who act or plan to act on these urges.
Being black is being black. Wanting to shag kids is wanting to shag kids.
YOU brought up that blacks look like thugs. Apparently not by you or anyone else, but you say that "others" think that they do.
You are trying to say that not all people who want to shag kids want to want to shag kids, and suggesting that they might shag kids because they might want to shags kids etc. etc. etc. IS NOT comparable to being black.
I am trying my best to understand where the comparison makes sense, and it just offends me the more I try to. Are black people trying their best to seek help to not be thugs?
A Link to the Past
Banned
Man, you're a real pro at pretending to care about child abuse victims. Since, you know, child abuse often leads to further child abuse when the victim grows older. This is part of why I feel that society should be thinking more about supporting pedophiles with getting help, not making them fear their outing. It causes further psychological harm.
EDIT: izunadono...
People who have urges to molest kids do not necessarily want to molest kids. I can't imagine that people who grew into it through childhood trauma want to do it, either. The comparison exists because pedophiles who want help or who are actively seeking help are indeed good people, but they aren't credited for the fact that they are fighting it, but are instead marked for death by everyone around them.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
This is a documentary of people who actively tried to access their urges, and a discussion thread about said documentary. I care only about the people in this documentary, the horrible people that want to have sex with children, no the people who are fighting urges, these people aren't fighting their urges, they actively are terrible people with awful intentions, not sympathetic souls who need to be helped out. As the guy mentioned, the pedos in this case make the first, second, and last move when they're directly informed that they're talking to children.
I agree the comparison to black people (or gay, or other people) is wrong.
On the bolded. at the moment they decided to meet these guy thinking they were going to fuck a little children is already too late and they should be rightfully called criminals and be jailed. But somewhere down the line there had to be a breaking point where these guys decided it was time for them to act on their urges and I am sure if could be prevented if the enviroment for these guys wasn't one that encourages them to hide in the darkness alone with their thoughts instead of one that leads them to seek help or therapy, and this goes even more for pedophiles that were themselves victims as kids.
Except a lot are scared or ashamed, especially because of the kind of people who say anyone with those urges should be killed/castrated/locked away/monitored/exiled make it that much worse. Geez, I wonder why they don't open up and ask for help? Even if they went and got help and never touched a did and thought it was morally disgusting they'd still be demonized simply for the urges. Shouldn't we support and encourage people to "break the cycle" and get treated without persecution?
Or rather, we should just look into the studies already being made and use this as a reason to tell Stinson that he's fall of poop and nothing else?
oh really?
lmao
lets just jump to the defense of all pedophiles just to be safe then, huh? and while we're at it - lets just compare them to blacks for the fuck of it. added effect and all that
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Because it's a shitty comparison that never made sense in the first place.
……forgetit
Member
A lot of paedophiles need help, but comparing a mental illness that causes you to victimize children to having a different skin color or liking the same gender is incredibly offensive. There is something wrong with paedophiles and they need help, there is nothing wrong with black people or gay people and the comparison is beyond offensive.
Like i said earlier, it comes across as quite defensive (of that cohort)... Just saying.
/shrugs
its a lot easier to ask for help than to put in the hard work and dedication it takes to destroy lives
u right
And folks keep making it. "this shitty thing is just like being black!!".
A Link to the Past
Banned
Person X is bad because of perceptions of Persons YZ
That is the comparison. I am not comparing being black to being a pedophile, I am comparing unfair treatment of people to unfair treatment of people. A pedophile seeking treatment should not be treated like a person who is actively trying to hurt children.
EDIT: Sigh, I renounce my comparison of anti-black rhetoric to anti-pedophile rhetoric. I understand why it upset people, but I will re-clarify that I have never once compared black people to pedophiles, merely the judgments made against them (and other groups).
So now, let's focus on this - why should a person be judged for how another person with the same condition acts? If the former is actively trying to get help, why should we judge that person as being on the same level of the other person, who is actively continuing to act upon his or her urges?
That is the comparison. I am not comparing being black to being a pedophile, I am comparing unfair treatment of people to unfair treatment of people. A pedophile seeking treatment should not be treated like a person who is actively trying to hurt children.
EDIT: Sigh, I renounce my comparison of anti-black rhetoric to anti-pedophile rhetoric. I understand why it upset people, but I will re-clarify that I have never once compared black people to pedophiles, merely the judgments made against them (and other groups).
So now, let's focus on this - why should a person be judged for how another person with the same condition acts? If the former is actively trying to get help, why should we judge that person as being on the same level of the other person, who is actively continuing to act upon his or her urges?
Burger
Member
Like I said before, none of the people featured in the documentary were seeking help (despite multiple ways of getting it), they were seeking to exploit vulnerable children.
Well, I've said my piece. Shockingly, it doesn't appear that GAF can agree on the best way to solve this issue any better than anyone else can. Personally, I hope research continues to find better ways of treating these individuals. I also hope that law enforcement continues to protect our kids from the ones who choose to act on their urges.
Absolutely. Derailed the topic and obviously pissed a few people off.
Absolutely. Derailed the topic and obviously pissed a few people off.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Like I said before, this documentary discourages people who want to get help. You also never addressed my earlier point, of how someone would get help if they found themselves homeless or jobless because of their revelation.
and you keep on barking up that tree
even when you try and back off that ridiculous bullshit you just can't fucking help yourself can you? jumping at the first opportunity to defend pedophilia as a whole and making it a point to let the world know that they're victims too isn't enough. you gotta cling to bringing people like me into it
this fuckery
it discourages people to want to get help how? there's no 'help' in arranging meetings with kids
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Except that none of these people were seeking help, at all. That's what the documentary is about, and the ones who do should be exposed. I'm honestly curious about what would you do if there was a pedophile walking up to your door with the intent of molesting your child, would you report it to the police and say "oh but don't make this public."
……forgetit
Member
That's much better. If someone wants to seek help for their paedophilic urges then they should be able to without being harassed, but I don't see society ever getting to that point for various reasons.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
The difference is that in the situation of pedophiles, all of them are Persons YZ. There is no innocent X being swept up in what Y and Z do, because if it were accepted, person X would be right there with Persons Y and Z. They might not all act on their desires, but they all want to do bad things, that's why we have the label of pedophile in the first place.
There are no pedophiles that don't have the desire to fuck kids, if they didn't have that desire, they wouldn't be labeled as pedophiles in the first place. But there are plenty of black people that have no desire to do anything wrong, and I mean no desire, not "I want to do it but stop myself from doing it.", and they get unfairly lumped in with the few black people who do do things wrong.
Spring-Loaded
Member
You can condemn paedophiles for going through with molesting children AND acknowledge that it's a mental illness. You can recognize that there are paedophiles who don't molest children, don't want to be attracted to them and feel that it's wrong to have those desires.
There's no refuting anything Volimar said in that post. I love reveling in revenge fantasy as much as anyone, but let's not pretend such a childish, lazy approach to assessing this matter is actually justifiable. If you're capable of putting rational thought over base emotions, then you're able to drop the "willful ignorance" act.
I'm ashamed every time I see someone shit on people suffering from a mental illness, especially when it's someone I thought had some sense.
A Link to the Past
Banned
If you read everything of what I've said, I am referring to the shitty harm this documentary does by discouraging people from getting treatment. I have actively stated that it was a good thing that Stinson got these predators arrested, and have criticized him for making a public spectacle about it because it negatively affects those who want to seek treatment.
Yes the fuck you did and your half-ass "well, i didn't mean it but i kinda meant it" bullshit repeatedly shows that you still don't give a fuck, have a clue, or even care - but by all means lets just keep talking about pedophile issues and why they're still the new niggers of society
But what we don't understand is how this honeypotting appears to them. It might seem like a golden opportunity in their mind, where it would be okay if the 11 y/o for some reason would keep a secret and "give consent". As fucked up as that may be to pursue, I don't think that would have been an option for them in the real world.
Even worse, that if it isn't possible for that to happen, then grouping all paedophiles together, including those who do pose a threat to children through the means of kidnapping seems un-something.
Not to use Darren Brown as a scientific advisor, but he programs demonstrate that given the opportunity with a certain consequence (like a pot full of gold above all else) can make otherwise law abiding citizens into criminals.
Them travelling to the door is where I can't muster any sympathy, but I can't shake off the fact that it seems so unlikely to have happened otherwise. It's still a crime they should be arrested for 100%, but public shame is bonkers because it never gives them a chance to recover if it were possible.
---
Oh seriously what the fuck. This comparison is STILL being defended. Come the fuck on man. Just try to repost it changing black for another minority and realise how fucked up it is.
Burger
Member
That is entirely your supposition that is not backed up by research, investigative journalism or facts.
In the UK there a plethora of ways to gain help for a variety of conditions whether it be inappropriate feelings, joblessness or homelessness.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Eh, I'm p. much done with you, DY_Nasty. It's tiresome to see someone outraged AND then call people who seek mental help monsters in the same post.
these guys were NOT seeking help though
so that entire angle is bullshit. if you're aware of a mental illness, which in a case like pedophilia its a whole new angle of 'willful ignorance' to be unaware, then you know you need help. choosing to ignore to that in order to instead BE A PREDATOR LIKE IN OP then yeah, its bullshit
Glad we helped you with that one...
A Link to the Past
Banned
I'm not the one with an unproven assertion. You suggest that this documentary does good. How does it prevent child sexual assault? Have we experienced a drop in it after To Catch a Predator came on air? Why would anyone ever want to be open to anyone about their ailment, when there are stories like the angry mob that terrorized elderly people looking for a pedophile who wasn't even there? Shit's scary, man.
fuck you
and no one messaging little kids looking for sex is seeking help
I do not know much about the UK, but at least here in the US, the criminal justice system is set up for sending people off to prison, and the focus is not for rehabilitation and transitioning back in to society without re-offending. There is a lot of support for this system of "serving justice", which is also why the US also still uses capital punishment. Dehumanizing criminals and presuming guilt before trial that are commonly seen in media are key tactics that helps perpetuate this system. It's awful, but it is engrained in much of the population.
……forgetit
Member
Has anyone said that paedophiles who want help are monsters? Where is this post? What the hell are you talking about? Who are you talking too?
Omegasquash
Member
Urges of this sort are an illness. Acting on those urges is a reprehensible criminal act.
I don't necessarily think goading people into taking action is OK, but I don't have a problem with anyone setting a trap either...I suppose it all boils down to the types of chats that the hunter has with these people, though I can't imagine him saying anything lewd or leading.
This feels to me as though he's busting people that succumb to their urges. Identifying them and flagging them is, well, welcomed. For those with the illness that don't act on it...they're not acting. They won't get caught, because they're not doing anything.
I think we should shame the act, not the illness. I can't speak to what kind of treatment should take place because I'm not a doctor, but I also don't have any issues with flagging a potential sexual abuser of children. And I take far more sympathy on the child than the pedophile. There's a line to be drawn, here.
I don't necessarily think goading people into taking action is OK, but I don't have a problem with anyone setting a trap either...I suppose it all boils down to the types of chats that the hunter has with these people, though I can't imagine him saying anything lewd or leading.
This feels to me as though he's busting people that succumb to their urges. Identifying them and flagging them is, well, welcomed. For those with the illness that don't act on it...they're not acting. They won't get caught, because they're not doing anything.
I think we should shame the act, not the illness. I can't speak to what kind of treatment should take place because I'm not a doctor, but I also don't have any issues with flagging a potential sexual abuser of children. And I take far more sympathy on the child than the pedophile. There's a line to be drawn, here.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Yeah..no. These people were on their way to engage in sex with someone they thought was a fucking minor. Fuck them.
Spring-Loaded
Member
Yeah, and they can and will be punished for what they've actually done. No shit it's wrong and inexcusable.
But do you think society as a whole will be understanding of someone who comes out as a paedophile, even if they've never hurt any children and are actively seeking help? You think they wouldn't be ostracized by almost everyone they know, just because people like many in this thread tend to lump them all together?
Not that it really matters, I guess. Almost everything about correctional facilities goes against rehabilitation, so this stigma placed specifically on being a paedophile (not just on abusing children), that ensures many will never risk seeking help, is right in line with the overall system. Just like with suicidal people being "weak." Just like with schizophrenic people being treated like lepers.
So feel free to continue not mustering a modicum of empathy in order to join in on the revenge circle jerk.
A Link to the Past
Banned
DrFubbs suggested that pedophilia is a sexual preference
Another user who I won't specify because they apologized for it, suggested that treatment was a waste of money
I completely agree with this. And unfortunately, as far as I know, the only treatment involves loads of therapy and chemical castration in hopes of killing the sex drive. It's not that effective. I think that's really another reason a lot of pedophiles don't come forward. Why risk getting dragged out into the street and set fire to when there's not even much that can really be done to "cure" you.
theepicoftyler
Member
There's a really good episode of This American Life that I think the people condemning pedophiles as deviants rather than those with a mental illness should listen to.
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/522/transcript
It's the last act, and the transcripts there for anyone who wants to read it.
The point of that part of the episode is that, nobody knows why pedophiles become pedophiles, and almost zero research has been done finding the cause of such behavior. In my opinion, it's reckless to start demonizing all pedophiles as child harming scum when the numbers reveal there are a large number of people who are probably pedophiles that don't act on those urges. I'd vote on the side that finds those people and tries to save their health and humanity, not shame them and take their lives away.
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/522/transcript
It's the last act, and the transcripts there for anyone who wants to read it.
The point of that part of the episode is that, nobody knows why pedophiles become pedophiles, and almost zero research has been done finding the cause of such behavior. In my opinion, it's reckless to start demonizing all pedophiles as child harming scum when the numbers reveal there are a large number of people who are probably pedophiles that don't act on those urges. I'd vote on the side that finds those people and tries to save their health and humanity, not shame them and take their lives away.
……forgetit
Member
Also no matter how society changes out paedophiles will always be ostracized for one simple reason. People don't want them near their kids. It's kinda shitty, but it's just a fact of life. Help can be made available but it will always be done anonymously.
yeah that's nice - but not at all the argument i n this thread
mental illness semantics aside, you have people who are acting. clearly. if you want to go on about the people who are actually seeking help and running into a brick wall in a different thread then by all means go and do that my tone and that of others will be dramatically different. but don't go on trying to talk about those who need help can't get it in the thread about people actively looking for kids to molest.
just sayin it might help
Miles Quaritch
Member
I appreciate you're out of the discussion, but I really do think that this mindset in incredibly toxic and only serves to keep the issue of Paedophilia from being discussed rationally.
If we're to ever combat it, it needs to be discussed in a calm, rational manner that sees us be willing to engage and support those people who need help. After all, if we don't try to help them by offering support, what other way is there to stop a paedophile from abusing a child and scarring them for life?
Vigilant mobs that go about attacking and murdering often innocent people? We're better than a brainless mob that's only driven by emotion.
- Status