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[Loomy]

I'm all for it, but all it does is they make them have to just talk about it. so can't they just be like "yea, no thanks, we don't have the resources. have a nice day." end meeting

That's how it starts.

 

[Mithos]

Weird I guess this is only Europe. And why isn't the UK on it? Guess USA doesn't get a vote either.

Wow some countries like Poland and Hungary you need passports and all sorts of crazy info.

UK has its own because, they LEFT the EU during this little thing called BREXIT.

Edit:
Also it being for Europeans only isn't that important for now, if something is decided, it will go global..
Just like when Australia sued Steam and they had to implement refunds, that went global too.

 

[Durin]

Happy to see it happening, hope they get enough extra signatures to prevent any shenanigans...and hope something comes of this.

It would be so cool if developers had to plan a sunsetting process when in development, so when the playerbase goes down to a trickle the game can be passed over to any community wishing to make private servers. Or for any games with single-player modes to have any online check-in severed or never implemented entirely for newer games.

 

[Radical_3d]

Having played Mario Kart World I'm not completely against killing games. Or game companies.

 

[lh032]

lol the poor guy ross wanted out. He saw it was a mistake and was tired of it.
Now he will have to somehow go through with this.

Honestly, doesn't matter to me at all. online games dont matter to me at all.
All the games I am interested in, are usually not internet connected.
I think it's a good cause but ultimately very naive and waste of time

but you need to download the actual game no? assuming if your games are digital.
even physical games required to download a large portion of data.

 

[Jinzo Prime]

Nothing will change. But good try.

Oh, something's going to change alright. But I don't think this is going to go the way people think its going to go.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Nothing will change. But good try.

lol yeah why try for something to be better if it's always best to just sit down on my couch and let everyone else decide for me some shitty decisions that shouldn't be happening in the first place? /s

Spoiler

sign it if you are in the EU thanks.

 

[Lionel Richie]

Nothing will change. But good try.

I mean we're monkeys floating endlessly atop of a crystallized ball of fire spinning around like a toddler across an universe we know nothing about.

 

[SILKYSMOOTH30FPS]

Thanks to the closet furry.

 

[rofif]

but you need to download the actual game no? assuming if your games are digital.
even physical games required to download a large portion of data.

Depends. Most don't require download.

 

[SilentSpecter]

Thanks uncle Phil

What does Phil even have to do with this?

 

[TheSHEEEP]

Given our current time-line, watch this somehow become the trigger for an all nuclear war with China.

Gamers going out with a bang. Hell, yeah.

Also, keep signing (if you haven't yet). And get your EU friends, parents, ex's and dogs to sign. And the birds. Okay, maybe not the birds.

 

[ToadMan]

So this will save Anthem?

 

[kikkis]

How does this work with games that have tightly coupled Integration with authentication and private data? What about things that have licenses that prevent redistribution?

I dont really care about this at all and i oppose regulations in general. You guys make it sound like anthem is vital cultural heritage of mankind and not commercial crap that just failed.

 

[Filben]

PirateSoftware right now

 

[Sintoid]

Stupid like most of all petitions

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

Curious to know how many of that 1mil are actual citizens of EU as their signature is the only valid one.

 

[Bojji]

How does this work with games that have tightly coupled Integration with authentication and private data? What about things that have licenses that prevent redistribution?

I dont really care about this at all and i oppose regulations in general. You guys make it sound like anthem is vital cultural heritage of mankind and not commercial crap that just failed.

This started many months before Anthem announcement.

PirateSoftware right now

He even looks like him/her/it

Curious to know how many of that 1mil are actual citizens of EU as their signature is the only valid one.

System is not idiotic, when I tried to sign yesterday it said that I already did it (many months ago), many countries requires your "social security number" or bank accounts to sign up.

But of course fake signatures will be there.

 

[lifa-cobex]

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

How does this work with games that have tightly coupled Integration with authentication and private data?

They can figure it out.

What about things that have licenses that prevent redistribution?

They prevent sale. It doesn't prevent them from ensuring functionality.

 

[Inviusx]

Is this some "All games are precious and must be preserved for eternity" bullshit?

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Is this some "All games are precious and must be preserved for eternity" bullshit?

It's "stop selling people stuff and then bricking it" bullshit

 

[CuNi]

People in here seem to forget that the proposal explicitly states it is not retroactive.
Means all and any games out now today won't have to be touched.

It just means that developers need to make an "end-of-life" plan for all upcoming games.
It also doesn't mean 100% equal once support ends.
For Racing games as an example, Ghosts, leaderboards etc. wouldn't have to be somehow kept alive, but you should still be able to play the game once the servers shut down.

MMOs will be the only tricky part because of the scale and resources needed to host them, but considering there are even private servers for WoW out already, I don't see why it isn't possible to also account for something like that when designing a game.

Being against this bill is confusing to me, because that would mean you'd literally advocate for "you own nothing, and you will like it!" mentality.

 

[Mithos]

It just means that developers need to make an "end-of-life" plan for all upcoming games.
It also doesn't mean 100% equal once support ends.
For Racing games as an example, Ghosts, leaderboards etc. wouldn't have to be somehow kept alive, but you should still be able to play the game once the servers shut down.

People also need to keep in mind that it could take YEARS for the EU Commission to come to a decision when it comes to what needs to be done legally, and then YEARS again for all member states to implement the laws to abide with the EU laws created, and even after that it could be YEARS again before games would need to follow them, if they want them available/accessible in any EU country.

 

[Guilty_AI]

People also need to keep in mind that it could take YEARS for the EU Commission to come to a decision when it comes to what needs to be done legally, and then YEARS again for all member states to implement the laws to abide with the EU laws created, and even after that it could be YEARS again before games would need to follow them, if they want them available/accessible in any EU country.

It is worth mentioning though that this may not even result in any legislation or anything, there could be just some clarifications in some matters such as "yeah, this revoking clause in the ToS isn't legal", which would take less time. Also, game companies would already start adapting way before any action is actually taken as long as it looks its going somewhere (especially considering modern half-decade dev cycles)

 

[Mithos]

It is worth mentioning though that this may not even result in any legislation or anything, there could be just some clarifications in some matters such as "yeah, this revoking clause in the ToS isn't legal". Also, game companies would already start adapting way before any action is actually take as long as it looks its going somewhere (especially considering modern half-decade dev cycles)

True the EU Commission might just come back with you can't call it selling/buy/purchase or even licensing, but have to call it Rent/Subscription and you MUST have a preliminary end-date.

Who knows..

 

[calico]

These things have to start somewhere.

I also think there should be an obligation for companies selling games/movies/books etc. to ensure that, even if they alter the content later, it is always available in the state it was sold in. Essentially a right to opt out of future censorship of media you buy.

If physical media is going to cease to exist, we have to consider how the inherent protections we took for granted there can be replicated for digital media.

 

[nkarafo]

Perhaps it would be better ti push for 1.25 million signatures to account for redundancies that will get filter out by mistakes.

Apparently it's not necessary for every country. I've read that Germany and Greece for example only require a valid address, no idea if it is indeed the case, but if it is then it's probably quite easy to bot and farm signatures. So it's quite important that people don't ignore this because it already reached 1M. Every single signature is important.

It's already at +100k

 

[DryvBy]

Who in the US government that loves games can we bother on X to get Trump to sign an executive order. He could go down as the only US president that bothered to care about consumers.

 

[adamsapple]

I made a petition to fuck your mum and it worked

Her disappointment was immeasurable.

 

[GudOlRub]

True the EU Commission might just come back with you can't call it selling/buy/purchase or even licensing, but have to call it Rent/Subscription and you MUST have a preliminary end-date.

Who knows..

Technically that has already been decided under EU law if I'm not mistaken, once you buy software, it's yours to keep and do as you please (within limits of copyright law obviously) and the distributor cannot revoke your access to it.
Unfortunately this hasn't been taken to court yet in the gaming space so Steam and co still include that bullshit about being able to revoke access to your account and thus your games.

There's also exceptions to this regarding renting and such and I'm sure companies would try to use that as a loophole to avoid giving you your right to own a copy of a game, but if something along these lines went to court I'm actually confident Valve and every other digital game distributor would be fucked right up the ass with a mandatory change to their TOS and perhaps even a cute fine.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Europe ain't my rope to swing on.

 

[grvg]

People in here seem to forget that the proposal explicitly states it is not retroactive.
Means all and any games out now today won't have to be touched.

It just means that developers need to make an "end-of-life" plan for all upcoming games.
It also doesn't mean 100% equal once support ends.
For Racing games as an example, Ghosts, leaderboards etc. wouldn't have to be somehow kept alive, but you should still be able to play the game once the servers shut down.

MMOs will be the only tricky part because of the scale and resources needed to host them, but considering there are even private servers for WoW out already, I don't see why it isn't possible to also account for something like that when designing a game.

Being against this bill is confusing to me, because that would mean you'd literally advocate for "you own nothing, and you will like it!" mentality.

It seems like lots of people haven't read up on it and are basing their assumptions from either their own gut feeling about the words or some other misinfornation that mysteriously came from *somewhere*

Mmos are an interesting one. You can run a solo wow instance populate with player bots that are capable of helping you finish all the raid content on a mid range PC now. I only bring this up because i find immensely interesting.

Personal pipe dream: this leads to more games going the doom and doom 2 route.

 

[ZehDon]

Pretty sure the terms we agree to, when purchasing games, completely negates this.

Europeans seem to get a lot of [stupid] stuff done by crying enough about things though, such as allowing alt stores on Apple devices and outlawing loot boxes.

Virtually all of modern EULA's has never been tested in court. For the few aspects have been brought before a Judge, they've fallen apart. Steam's original refund policy of "Fuck you" was struck down by the ACCC, for example, despite it being in Steam's EULA. Simply put: in most countries, you're not able to sign away your rights. Consumer protection laws are a good thing. Only in backwards countries like America or Russia are consumer protections viewed negatively.

 

[AmuroChan]

If this bill gets enough votes what will happen? Will Sony be forced to bring back Concord?

I don't think so because they refunded everyone. So it's as if the game never came out.

 

[TheSHEEEP]

If this bill gets enough votes what will happen? Will Sony be forced to bring back Concord?

1. This is not a bill, but (hopefully) the start of legislation looking into this (they'll have to, if the initiative passes). It does come with a few suggestions and a goal, though.
2. No. If some years in the future, laws come from this, they will only affect future games. Games lost already will remain lost, but hopefully future games don't have to get lost once reaching end-of-life. It would be a huge step up for game preservation as well, which right now is basically in a huge grey area that is just silently accepted by everyone but has a sword hanging over it at all times.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Who in the US government that loves games can we bother on X to get Trump to sign an executive order. He could go down as the only US president that bothered to care about consumers.

America makes great games. The best games. Some would say the greatest games of all time. My son told me the other night look dad, isn't this game amazing? Minecraft, i think was the name. Wouldn't it be terrible if these games disappeared? It would be pretty terrible, i think. Many people think its terrible. They came to me, saying Mr. Trump, we dont want these games to disappear, it would be terrible! So i assured them, i wouldn't let that happen, not now, not ever. I'll make sure these great american games will remain great for all eternity.

 

[TheSHEEEP]

America makes great games. The best games. Some would say the greatest games of all time. My son told me the other night look dad, isn't this game amazing? Minecraft, i think was the name. Wouldn't it be terrible if these games disappeared? It would be pretty terrible, i think. Many people think its terrible. They came to me, saying Mr. Trump, we dont want these games to disappear, it would be terrible! So i assured them, i wouldn't let that happen, not now, not ever. I'll make sure these great american games will remain great for all eternity.

You had me in the first half.

 

[poodaddy]

So who's the lesbian that I keep seeing in the memes and stuff? Is that like a noted opponent of game preservation or something? I just feel out of the loop lol, let me in!

 

[Filben]

So who's the lesbian that I keep seeing in the memes and stuff? Is that like a noted opponent of game preservation or something? I just feel out of the loop lol, let me in!

You probably mean the YouTuber that goes by the name Thor or PirateSoftware. He typically codes several hours per day and streams it, has a big community following. He usually makes a lot of sense although he speaks with an ultimate truth, like he knows everything, and his confidence and world views attracts a lot of people. He is usually pretty pro consumer but something triggered him here.

When the initiative was being brought up to him by his audience he practically picked it apart by misrepresenting what the initiative is, by finding it way too vague and because he sees live service games at risk if this passes. it's like he thinks it's an actual bill or law or something and don't know how things in the EU works.

He then started being a complete dick when Ross, the founder of the initiative, reached out to him to have a conversation. Thor literally told Ross that he can eat his entire ass (his exact words) and that he refuses to talk about it... At least with him, because he still went on for hours and made several videos where he did talk about it, but again with his condescending tone and he encouraged his viewers actively to NOT support this initiative.

He was coming from a developer's side and wanted to raise awareness to the technical issues in developing games if there would be certain restrictive laws, assuming that very specific laws would be passed. But then he completely lost his shit, was so mad about a few wordings (like politician want easy wins) that he wanted to throw this entire thing under the bus and went on an autistic spree about the initiative's founder.

 

[Paasei]

Mine is in there somewhere

 

[JayK47]

Make Games Great Again.

 

[GudOlRub]

You probably mean the YouTuber that goes by the name Thor or PirateSoftware. He typically codes several hours per day and streams it, has a big community following. He usually makes a lot of sense although he speaks with an ultimate truth, like he knows everything, and his confidence and world views attracts a lot of people. He is usually pretty pro consumer but something triggered him here.

If the pics I saw were real and not edited then his code is also nothing to be talked about to put it in polite terms. I've never watched him so I don't know exactly the type of stream he does but if it's supposed to be educational and some of you specifically want to learn how to code then please GET THE FUCK OUT, do not watch this dude.
I'm not a game developer but as a software developer in general I did not like what I saw very much.

And I know this looks like it but I'm not even trying to shit on the dude, supposedly he came from QA so it's not like we can expect senior level coding skills, it's pretty good already that he can code and create an actual game imo.
It's just that for other people to learn how to code he's really not the person to watch I think.

But if he streams just for fun and people enjoy it then that's cool.

 

[ShadowNate]

There also another thing to consider about the initiative. It's true that if it reaches its goal (after the invalid signatures are weeded out) the process to some regulation will still take significant work and time. And yes, it won't be regulation that can be enforced retroactively.

But, companies could absolutely take notice of the support for initiative and try to ride the wave, announcing end-of-life plans for their existing games (not the dead ones though) anyway for positive publicity and increased sales. It could happen.

 

[poodaddy]

You probably mean the YouTuber that goes by the name Thor or PirateSoftware. He typically codes several hours per day and streams it, has a big community following. He usually makes a lot of sense although he speaks with an ultimate truth, like he knows everything, and his confidence and world views attracts a lot of people. He is usually pretty pro consumer but something triggered him here.

When the initiative was being brought up to him by his audience he practically picked it apart by misrepresenting what the initiative is, by finding it way too vague and because he sees live service games at risk if this passes. it's like he thinks it's an actual bill or law or something and don't know how things in the EU works.

He then started being a complete dick when Ross, the founder of the initiative, reached out to him to have a conversation. Thor literally told Ross that he can eat his entire ass (his exact words) and that he refuses to talk about it... At least with him, because he still went on for hours and made several videos where he did talk about it, but again with his condescending tone and he encouraged his viewers actively to NOT support this initiative.

He was coming from a developer's side and wanted to raise awareness to the technical issues in developing games if there would be certain restrictive laws, assuming that very specific laws would be passed. But then he completely lost his shit, was so mad about a few wordings (like politician want easy wins) that he wanted to throw this entire thing under the bus and went on an autistic spree about the initiative's founder.

Hey, thanks very much for explaining, seriously. I had no idea that was a guy at all, but it sounds like he's seriously lacking emotional maturity, and probably has a lot of growing up to do.

 

[CuNi]

It seems like lots of people haven't read up on it and are basing their assumptions from either their own gut feeling about the words or some other misinfornation that mysteriously came from *somewhere*

Mmos are an interesting one. You can run a solo wow instance populate with player bots that are capable of helping you finish all the raid content on a mid range PC now. I only bring this up because i find immensely interesting.

Personal pipe dream: this leads to more games going the doom and doom 2 route.

It's funny to think about it, considering that Blizzard themselves already implemented Dungeon NPCs that you can queue up with to play Dungeons solo.

 

[Arsic]

Cool story bro. I'm gonna go back to downloading all my games digitally.

You boys enjoy playing with your tiny peckers over not being able to play the crew anymore.

Fucking the Crew. lol.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

It's far from over when it comes to the signatures alone, keep spreading the word.

I hope it goes through. I saw Steve from Gamersnexus do the interview the other day.

 

[Plies]

The end of live service games.

 

[Bojji]

The end of live service games.

I wish.