Rummy Bunnz
Member
Whoops, I'd forgotten they removed jump back tatsu in SF4. Probably cuz everyone switched over to Evil Ryu. I thought that was silly then too, but I can kinda understand where they were coming from. Neutral not so much.
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Street Fighter V Beta 2 Thread: Welcome, future 21007s! Now on PC!
- Thread starter enzo_gt
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Whoops, I'd forgotten they removed jump back tatsu in SF4. Probably cuz everyone switched over to Evil Ryu. I thought that was silly then too, but I can kinda understand where they were coming from. Neutral not so much.
Yeah. SFxT had issues with defensive play being king and with combos being incredibly long- neither of which should be an issue with SFV.
I think that lower execution in combos is a valid worry wrt SFV as a spectator sport.
But I also think that the variety added by most v-triggers, where they tend to transform the way the character behaves will make up for the hype. Unlike Ultras, where once they land it is always the same animation, V-Trigger will require people using it at different times and will add to each matchup being very different and interesting.
Feel the bigger problem at the start will be poor balance -people will discover that X character is broken, and Capcom will not patch it for a while- and the small roster -which will make the brokenness problem worse-.
A couple of years in, we will be beyond these problems -brokenness is always a possibility, but a counter is more probable the bigger the roster is-.
But I also think that the variety added by most v-triggers, where they tend to transform the way the character behaves will make up for the hype. Unlike Ultras, where once they land it is always the same animation, V-Trigger will require people using it at different times and will add to each matchup being very different and interesting.
Feel the bigger problem at the start will be poor balance -people will discover that X character is broken, and Capcom will not patch it for a while- and the small roster -which will make the brokenness problem worse-.
A couple of years in, we will be beyond these problems -brokenness is always a possibility, but a counter is more probable the bigger the roster is-.
I don't see how slightly easier combos will change the wow factor. Seriously how many times did most people even care about how difficult a combo was in SF4? Maybe the first time Sako did something it was kind of cool, but really no one cared that much. People plinked everything anyway, so whatever. And people will still miss the 3 framers during a tense match in high level tournaments.
The excitement has always been the people outplaying each other, the interesting character matchups, and the drama and personality of the players in the match. Easier combos will punish mistakes, bad reads, and YOLO decisions even harder now and probably make the game even more skill based overall since the damage you take will be more reliable when you fuck up.
The excitement has always been the people outplaying each other, the interesting character matchups, and the drama and personality of the players in the match. Easier combos will punish mistakes, bad reads, and YOLO decisions even harder now and probably make the game even more skill based overall since the damage you take will be more reliable when you fuck up.
Would you like a beta code?Beta is just for those who preordered it?
I'm gonna tell you guys a secret. I used to play SFII on arcades when I was 6yo. I used to play A LOT. When I went to bed I kept listening to Ryu's HADOUKEN and Dhalsim's stage elephants. This haunted me for months. I haven't played a SF game ever since because I was afraid of listening those damn hadoukens
"God's Beard!"
Member
I can't wait for the frame data to come out when this game releases. It's gonna be interesting to see how many meterless invincible reversals there are.
I don't give a shit about the wow factor, I think that when execution is as dumb easy as it is in V, it just gets boring to play.
Hit confirming a poke into a combo requires good reactions and execution in IV, in V you can just react to the hit and mash the next button like an idiot, being sure it'll hit. Even being able to tell when you were too late was important in IV in order not to get punished.
I don't even think IV is all that good, but this particular aspect of V I find really dumb.
I'm ok with 1 frame links being gone because pliking is gone too (because with plinking I think they're alright, even for bnbs), but they went way too far in the other direction.
What I absolutely love about this game though are the animations and how varied they are. Moves feel like they have much more impact just because the opponent reacts differently to a hit than they do to a block. I think Mika and Karin are a lot more fun to play than Ryu, but I'll still use Ryu a lot just because I adore his st. MP and c. HP, the impact is amazing.
Hit confirming a poke into a combo requires good reactions and execution in IV, in V you can just react to the hit and mash the next button like an idiot, being sure it'll hit. Even being able to tell when you were too late was important in IV in order not to get punished.
I don't even think IV is all that good, but this particular aspect of V I find really dumb.
I'm ok with 1 frame links being gone because pliking is gone too (because with plinking I think they're alright, even for bnbs), but they went way too far in the other direction.
What I absolutely love about this game though are the animations and how varied they are. Moves feel like they have much more impact just because the opponent reacts differently to a hit than they do to a block. I think Mika and Karin are a lot more fun to play than Ryu, but I'll still use Ryu a lot just because I adore his st. MP and c. HP, the impact is amazing.
yeah, you nailed it. i see pros drop 1 frame links all the time, it sucks. the true excitement of SF is in the mind games, not the execution.
Insane Metal
Member
I'd love to give it a try!
You should play rhythm games, you'll never be bored.
I didn't say combo execution was the only thing I liked about SF. Nice try, though.
I do want to play Persona 4 Dancing All Night some day.
yeah and? I think what Daigo did to get the dizzy before the combo was more interesting than the combo. Something like Valle using Hugo and bodying Bonchan is more impressive. Little to no crazy combos in matches like that and still more hype and memorable than Daigo hitting some Evil Ryu combo.
No chun? Oof, that's a real kick in the rear. I thought she would have been in for sure.
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For those who are lazy, I have a PSN code for the beta. If you want it, just PM me your favorite SFV char or something.
EDIT: Hugo clap loops are awesome and never get old.
I expect those to be dead by the time the game launches.
For those who want to know how hype a SFV match can become, watch this Poongko vs Graham Wolfe match:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEEOvbOVbzE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEEOvbOVbzE
The last time Chun was available (beta 2?) she still had it. But yeah who knows.
Key part being that I think it's way too easy in SF V. The issue is not that it's not as hard as SF IV, but that they went too far in making it easier.
TheSpoiler
Member
It's real easy to say "I can just use easy ass combo all day" before you hit a match, fuck up, and actually have to wonder if you should or could pull that off. Pros drop 3f links all the time.
But what's more important in this game aren't the combos but making situations available for you and your character. With less goofy ass ways to get out of stuff and a bigger focus on fundies, you could grind out combos all day and it won't matter to someone who's execution of footies and basic SF knowledge is on point.
But what's more important in this game aren't the combos but making situations available for you and your character. With less goofy ass ways to get out of stuff and a bigger focus on fundies, you could grind out combos all day and it won't matter to someone who's execution of footies and basic SF knowledge is on point.
CountBlack
Member
Yea I really enjoy the new animations as well. AA'ing someone with a cr.HP and seeing them almost get stuck on his fist looks great. Also with Chun's B-HK (I think).
I honestly think those will end up being taken out. Don't really think combos like those are in there on purpose tbh
yessir! also looking forward to kicking ultras out the door in favor of proper meter mgmt
YES!
I always just use m. DP because of muscle memory, but I really must try to do some of these c.HP anti airs just because of how awesome they look. I have to say "HGGGGN" out loud every time I see it.
Indeed. Fuck ultras.
Combos that people would still drop or never land on a human opponent. Regardless, my personal enjoyment of fighting games doesn't came from
being able to press the right buttons with the right timing. It doesn't matter much to me if they make them
"too easy". I've seen people hit long combos all the time in training mode but can't land anything on a human opponent to save their life. I think we put too much value into being able to perform combos.
It sucks, Chun was the one I was most looking forward to testing out. But I bet they will add them all in before the beta ends like they did last time. I mean this is probably the last chance to test out everything and all characters before release on a large scale, can't see them holding anything back except maybe FANG if he ain't quite complete or something. Seems they would want all the characters out there in the wild so a ton of people can test and find messed up, broken stuff, glitches, whatever and fix before the game releases.
KidA Seven
Member
The audience didn't know he was pulling off 1 frame links. People got hype due to Ken Bogard going crazy, and the length of the combo. Not every character has a combo like that in 4 anyways. I can see the general audience getting hype over a Ken combo or a Ryu parry (we know it will happen), but in general, it's up to people to hype up moments for casuals to get interested.
Zombegoast
Member
Capcom needs to do something with the combo system. So far the meta game is using MP or MK or whatever to use as a frametrap. I've gotten soo many counter hits playing as Ryu by just mashing MP.
robotzombie
Member
haha i know what you mean, but the way you worded this is literally what all fighting games (all games, really) boil down to
ain't it the truth...
lol u got me there
robotzombie
Member
if you put the daigo parry video up with no sound, im pretty sure no one but people who seriously played street fighter 3rd strike would even bat an eyelash
Hey people said the same about Chun's air legs tech. But yeah we just gotta wait and see.
KidA Seven
Member
CountBlack
Member
I was just responding to 'how many times did most people even care about how difficult a combo was in SF4?' and gave an example of people finding a very difficult combo exciting.
I do find people getting outplayed very impressive/hype too, I'm just not a fan of the direction their going with combos.
SpiceMelange
Member
Better than jab mashing meta imo, but yeah IDK sf5 kinda feel one dimensional right now.
DryEyeRelief
Member
haha excellent point
I just really don't think people were caring that much about how difficult that combo was, just the length, the build up before the combo, the players involved, and the announcer hype. If there turn out to be somewhat long but simple combos off V cancels or whatever a huge majority viewers will be just as impressed. Overall I just think combos in something like Marvel that are extra crazy and out the top are much more important than Street Fighter where many of the greatest matches consist of simple buttons and combos but with great reads and spacing and mind games and all that.
Eh. I always found mind games way more impressive when watching SF than execution, so I welcome SFV's lower execution barrier. And like Fly said, the V-skills will definitely help make each match up unique. This isn't like SFxT where normalized damage and samey characters ended up creating super boring matches.
And I fully expect SFV to be a game that evolves and changes just like SF4 did, so I'm not super worried about things potentially being one-dimensional. More characters will be added, mechanics will be tweaked.
And I fully expect SFV to be a game that evolves and changes just like SF4 did, so I'm not super worried about things potentially being one-dimensional. More characters will be added, mechanics will be tweaked.
CountBlack
Member
I agree with you on some of the best matches coming from great reads/spacing etc. I just think that SFIV was able to have both things that I personally liked. I feel like SFV will only have one aspect of that with the direction their going. Which is fine, 3s didn't have long combos/hard execution and neither did ST. IMO it just feels like they're taking a step back.
Ya I was sure they'd do full roster
. Laura is in so I'm set, but I would of liked a wide range of opponents.- Status