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Street Fighter V |OTVIIII| New Generation - Fighting Game Is Something So Great

S

Sayad

Member
7DollarHagane said:
Low tier god is a despicable person. He deserves to get blown up for this.

https://twitter.com/L0WTIERGOD/status/905222077082329088

Shaming some girl over a frame in her YouTube where she makes a silly face.
Click to expand...
You think those who still support his channel after everything he has done so far, would care about this?! :\


Beil said:
Totally unhealthy, unrealistic attitude. What's more it reminds me of when the stream/comments monsters go through new game trailers frame-by-frame to pick out a split-second shot they don't think is "right", then make a massive fuss about it. (MvCI Chun-Li face etc.)
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That's not the same though, Chun's MvCI face was irredeemable, and the fuss around it was the right thing because it wouldn't have been changed otherwise!
 
P

Pompadour

Member
Sayad said:
You think those who still support his channel after everything he has done so far, would care about this?! :\
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I'm surprised there's people who support his channel regardless of his moral character. He has no charisma and he's shitty at fighting games. I don't see the appeal unless people watch entirely to see him get salty.
 
M

MrCarter

Member
Beil said:
What a prick. And LMAO @ "fooled". It's almost like people can alter their appearance at will, and may look different from different angles and at different ages, weights etc. How dare they!

Totally unhealthy, unrealistic attitude. What's more it reminds me of when the stream/comments monsters go through new game trailers frame-by-frame to pick out a split-second shot they don't think is "right", then make a massive fuss about it. (MvCI Chun-Li face etc.)
Click to expand...

Although the massive tantrum from the FGC helped to change Chun's face in the end it was still very embarassing and cringe worthy that they only focused on that particular thing.
 
Z

Zombegoast

Member
I'm might be considering switching to Akuma, Karin and Cammy and ditching Nash all together. With Nash, trying to make a comeback with a life deficit is hard enough with the lack of knockdown option and weak damage output. The faster dash speed hurts him more than it helps and people act like he's good now.


With Akuma's setplay, I can take out Abigail in just 2 mistakes.
 
C

CountBlack

Member
FluxWaveZ said:
Alright.

After unexpectedly connecting with Abigail and picking up Guile again, I'm back to wondering why I've been wasting time playing Mika. She's not strong. She is actually very weak, and extremely flawed, in ways people who aren't Mika players don't care about because all they see are 50/50s and cheap stuff. Tired of dealing with that risk; it's such a refreshing breath of fresh air to play characters who can actually control the screen and whose pressure doesn't immediately end unless you take a big gamble.

Dreamhack Montreal is coming up, and the reality is my Abigail and Guile aren't up to my Mika's level because of the time I've spent with her. So I'll probably be forced to play her eventually. But moving forward, she is definitely going to be a character I just take out for specific match-ups (Dhalsim and Balrog are the ones I think of). When my Guile and Abigail get good enough, I won't need her for anything else.
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damn that's crazy I feel the same way about laura
 
J

jett

D-Member
FluxWaveZ said:
Alright.

After unexpectedly connecting with Abigail and picking up Guile again, I'm back to wondering why I've been wasting time playing Mika. She's not strong. She is actually very weak, and extremely flawed, in ways people who aren't Mika players don't care about because all they see are 50/50s and cheap stuff. Tired of dealing with that risk; it's such a refreshing breath of fresh air to play characters who can actually control the screen and whose pressure doesn't immediately end unless you take a big gamble.

Dreamhack Montreal is coming up, and the reality is my Abigail and Guile aren't up to my Mika's level because of the time I've spent with her. So I'll probably be forced to play her eventually. But moving forward, she is definitely going to be a character I just take out for specific match-ups (Dhalsim and Balrog are the ones I think of). When my Guile and Abigail get good enough, I won't need her for anything else.
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dang giving up on the mika army huh

I don't know why I stick with her. Only thing I do is fish for crush counters. Guess it just feels like a pain to relearn an entirely new character.
 
S

Sayad

Member
O

Omnistalgic

Member
FluxWaveZ said:
Alright.

After unexpectedly connecting with Abigail and picking up Guile again, I'm back to wondering why I've been wasting time playing Mika. She's not strong. She is actually very weak, and extremely flawed, in ways people who aren't Mika players don't care about because all they see are 50/50s and cheap stuff. Tired of dealing with that risk; it's such a refreshing breath of fresh air to play characters who can actually control the screen and whose pressure doesn't immediately end unless you take a big gamble.

Dreamhack Montreal is coming up, and the reality is my Abigail and Guile aren't up to my Mika's level because of the time I've spent with her. So I'll probably be forced to play her eventually. But moving forward, she is definitely going to be a character I just take out for specific match-ups (Dhalsim and Balrog are the ones I think of). When my Guile and Abigail get good enough, I won't need her for anything else.
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Our sets with Abby are pretty fun, and Mika is a gimmick character, she's pretty broken without those shortcomings because command grab super strong in this game.

I'm glad your moving on to more footsie based spacing characters like Guile and Abby, those matches are much more entertaining IMO.

Season 3 will hopefully bring a better balance across the board though. I'm gonna stick it out with Ken because I feel he will be strong with a overall defense buff, but there's no denying I would fair better if I just switch to Akuma.
 
O

Omnistalgic

Member
CountBlack said:
damn that's crazy I feel the same way about laura
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You downplay how good Laura is man lol...

But I feel you, it is on the flip side exaggerated how good she is. She is stressful to play against though, and that will always piss off the community and call for nerfs.

Capcom needs to do something more consistent about buttons though. Rashid's St.HP is a get out of jail button that's in practice safe on block, and Laura' st.mk is almost as annoying. Rashid is good, can pop V-Trigger every round almost and get a free mixup on you and has some of the best chip damage in the game. He doesn't need a endless block string button like Cammy lol. This is why Laura is so annoying, her pressure is stupid, so why is her st.mk so friggin beefy? Necalli, Ibuki, etc..all have really solid gameplans, with a little derp on top for them to pull out at their discretion. Either everyone gets derp, or everyone turns into a mixture of flaws and solid play.
I just hope Capcom looks at all these character and see how they are actually performing in matches, go beyond the frames data so to speak. It's almost right there, and then I see an Urien press st.hp 3 times is a row and I just -_-
 
S

Syntsui

Member
Fuck Laura and go the hell whoever non ironically thinks she isn't the dirtiest character ever made in the franchise. It's unfair what she does to your mind with that ridiculous pression full of options.
 
O

Omnistalgic

Member
Turbanator said:
Remember when everybody said Ken was dead after the S2 patch?
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ken was dead...the DP nerf at first was ridiculous. I was getting stuffed doing anti air DP's

He got his mojo back with 2.5. Though I wish they kept his derpy -2 OH. Everybody needs a little derp. Except for Ryu I guess.
 
O

Omnistalgic

Member
lucebuce12 said:
I don't disagree at all. Everyone should have some stuff that makes the opponent sigh when they lose to it.

Except Ryu, just give him ungodly damage and reliable AF Anti Airs to make up for how honest that man is.
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This is what I was saying, it's the last balancing point for the game.

The top tier don't need to rely on their derp, but they have it anyway. Capcom needs to give everyone something derp or nerf the following.

Necalli (guy has no weaknesses and goes SSG w/trigger)
Rashid (jack of all trades master of everything)
Karin (her sweep is stupid hard to punish for you naysayers)
Akuma (low health doesn't account for all that mixup!)
Balrog (Damage is outrageous)
Ibuki (screw her mp that's hits you from across the screen)
Cammy (Her dive kick mixup is brain dead stupid and strong)
Urien (with a mixup like that, he should have a dive kick too?, and such amazing CC buttons! No...)

Basically everyone needs to get the Chun-li treatment. Nip and tuck that cheap stuff away. They will not be garbage like players claim. Ken is not trash now without his derp Tatsu from S1. Chun is still strong. But if Guile can be Guile why they heck was Ryu nerf so much? Same character architecture but Guile is allowed to be the wall while Ryu gets to pretend? It's why I don't really like the designs of Alex and Juri, they are one plus on block buff away from being derpy. Juri's whole thing is to confuse you about when it's your turn. She's only "weak" because of her damage. She would literally kill you in two combos otherwise. Alex on paper should be a counter poking, semi-defensive character. But he's really all about that mixup and command grab pressure. Honestly don't know what they are going to do with him. A good Alex, is not going to be all that different from fighting Laura IMO.

It's more complex than my brain can figure out. But I hope
cap really does some real QOL stuff for S3...
 
F

fresquito

Member
After some time without playing ranked, yesterday I decided to play some and went from 4200 to 5500LP. Guess people have gotten worse while I was not playing? I checked the Rankings for the first time in ever and turns out I'm the 7th Birdie in my country. My country sucks at Street Fighter and Birdies are pretty terrible if I'm the seventh.

I guess I will take a new break and wait some more for people to get even worse, so I can climb the ranks with ease :-D
 
L

LakeEarth

Member
fresquito said:
After some time without playing ranked, yesterday I decided to play some and went from 4200 to 5500LP. Guess people have gotten worse while I was not playing? I checked the Rankings for the first time in ever and turns out I'm the 7th Birdie in my country. My country sucks at Street Fighter and Birdies are pretty terrible if I'm the seventh.
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When I hit platinum, I was somewhere close to top 10000 rank, and that's when I stopped playing ranked and stuck to casuals. Now I'm ranked 20000. Ranked mode generally trends upwards because more points are being introduced to pool.
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
Omnistalgic said:
Our sets with Abby are pretty fun, and Mika is a gimmick character, she's pretty broken without those shortcomings because command grab super strong in this game.

I'm glad your moving on to more footsie based spacing characters like Guile and Abby, those matches are much more entertaining IMO.
Click to expand...

Mika is more footsie based than Guile, and hers is harder than Abigail. The very reason why playing them makes me feel so much safer than playing Mika is because I don't have to struggle at neutral.

The opponent isn't doing anything and I'm Guile? Let me just throw fireballs all over the place to force them to react. The opponent keeps staying out of Mika's very limited range? As Abigail, let me just swat at them from a mile away with long range pokes. It's the same reason I like playing Birdie.

Mika is different online, especially when games are lagging, because the drop kick becomes way more powerful than it is, which is her one saving grace in the neutral. When that element is removed and players can react in local play, Mika needs to put more effort in the neutral than a lot of other characters. She doesn't have any proper low game, so opponents are free to always walk all over the place without being scared of their feet. The only real special cancellable poke she has is st.MP.

Command grabs aren't super strong when they don't do a lot of damage on their own (except for Typhoon, which completely resets everything to neutral), and you need to take a gamble every single time with a 950 health character who doesn't have a reversal. Lauras have a higher success rate with command grabs because she gives the opponent way more things to think about. Up close, she has + frames. She has an overhead. She has a special cancellable low. She has long range, fast crush counter buttons. She has V-Skill cancels. People will just take a command grab against Mika, because her only other option is being forced to end her pressure early since she has no plus on block medium buttons and no plus on block heavy buttons, except for Lady Mika (which pushes her out far enough that it almost ends her pressure by itself).
 
T

TheSpoiler

Member
Omnistalgic said:
This is what I was saying, it's the last balancing point for the game.

The top tier don't need to rely on their derp, but they have it anyway. Capcom needs to give everyone something derp or nerf the following.

Necalli (guy has no weaknesses and goes SSG w/trigger)
Rashid (jack of all trades master of everything)
Karin (her sweep is stupid hard to punish for you naysayers)
Akuma (low health doesn't account for all that mixup!)
Balrog (Damage is outrageous)
Ibuki (screw her mp that's hits you from across the screen)
Cammy (Her dive kick mixup is brain dead stupid and strong)
Urien (with a mixup like that, he should have a dive kick too?, and such amazing CC buttons! No...)

Basically everyone needs to get the Chun-li treatment. Nip and tuck that cheap stuff away. They will not be garbage like players claim. Ken is not trash now without his derp Tatsu from S1. Chun is still strong. But if Guile can be Guile why they heck was Ryu nerf so much? Same character architecture but Guile is allowed to be the wall while Ryu gets to pretend? It's why I don't really like the designs of Alex and Juri, they are one plus on block buff away from being derpy. Juri's whole thing is to confuse you about when it's your turn. She's only "weak" because of her damage. She would literally kill you in two combos otherwise. Alex on paper should be a counter poking, semi-defensive character. But he's really all about that mixup and command grab pressure. Honestly don't know what they are going to do with him. A good Alex, is not going to be all that different from fighting Laura IMO.

It's more complex than my brain can figure out. But I hope
cap really does some real QOL stuff for S3...
Click to expand...

See, but then you remove all the fun stuff though. The bullshit is part of fighting games (well, at least SF), and it's part of what makes the game kinda great. As James Chen called it, it's clown shoes. When you start removing good shit like they did with Chun then you kinda start making the game less fun to play and characters less fun to play. Weakening characters isn't really a good go-to option. We want stronger tools, not weaker ones.

That's why I'm more in favor of just giving people defensive options and toning down CCs because most of the problems come from there. (Rog def needs his V-Trigger damage toned down a bit though)

That isn't to say I'm not against adjustments. But system wide things should be implemented first before altering characters or toning them down. I feel like the system adjustments and the character adjustments aren't in tandem, so characters benefit from stressing you out more than other ones, even if the game is fairly balanced.
 
P

Pompadour

Member
TheSpoiler said:
See, but then you remove all the fun stuff though. The bullshit is part of fighting games (well, at least SF), and it's part of what makes the game kinda great. As James Chen called it, it's clown shoes. When you start removing good shit like they did with Chun then you kinda start making the game less fun to play and characters less fun to play. Weakening characters isn't really a good go-to option. We want stronger tools, not weaker ones.

That's why I'm more in favor of just giving people defensive options and toning down CCs because most of the problems come from there. (Rog def needs his V-Trigger damage toned down a bit though)

That isn't to say I'm not against adjustments. But system wide things should be implemented first before altering characters or toning them down. I feel like the system adjustments and the character adjustments aren't in tandem, so characters benefit from stressing you out more than other ones, even if the game is fairly balanced.
Click to expand...

Yeah, bullshit is fun, period. Since SFV is aping Guilty Gear already they need to implement the solution ASW discovered when they tried to keep fun, bullshit offense for the attacking player while making sure the defending player doesn't hang themselves when under oppressive, bullshit offense. And that solution is plenty of good, universal, defensive mechanics.

ASW games are all about #1 characters with playstyles that strive to be unique and #2 oppressive bullshit offense. SFV nails #1 and the good characters nail #2. They need to go all in with more defensive stuff that's universal to make the bullshit offense more palatable.

The game already has a great dichotomy between saving up V-Meter to gain access to your bullshit mode (if your character has a 3-bar VT) and using it to get the opponent off of you. They need to make every VT a 3-bar install VT so their bullshit mode can be both good and feel more earned. I think making VT harder to earn is important because the downside of making your character suddenly great is that matches would just boil down to when you can pop VT so the match can really begin.

The caveat to this is that I don't think the nerf list you're responding to is invalid, per se. I play Rog and I agree his damage needs toned down. But I like that nerf specifically because it doesn't gimp his tools which make him so much fun.

You could make non-Rog players happy by removing EX Straight into KKB Hook into EX Straight. That does stupid damage, especially in VT, but that would be removing a fun mechanic from Rog's tools. The more palatable solution is just cutting the damage on that move.
 
O

Omnistalgic

Member
FluxWaveZ said:
Mika is more footsie based than Guile, and hers is harder than Abigail. The very reason why playing them makes me feel so much safer than playing Mika is because I don't have to struggle at neutral.

The opponent isn't doing anything and I'm Guile? Let me just throw fireballs all over the place to force them to react. The opponent keeps staying out of Mika's very limited range? As Abigail, let me just swat at them from a mile away with long range pokes. It's the same reason I like playing Birdie.

Mika is different online, especially when games are lagging, because the drop kick becomes way more powerful than it is, which is her one saving grace in the neutral. When that element is removed and players can react in local play, Mika needs to put more effort in the neutral than a lot of other characters. She doesn't have any proper low game, so opponents are free to always walk all over the place without being scared of their feet. The only real special cancellable poke she has is st.MP.

Command grabs aren't super strong when they don't do a lot of damage on their own (except for Typhoon, which completely resets everything to neutral), and you need to take a gamble every single time with a 950 health character who doesn't have a reversal. Lauras have a higher success rate with command grabs because she gives the opponent way more things to think about. Up close, she has + frames. She has an overhead. She has a special cancellable low. She has long range, fast crush counter buttons. She has V-Skill cancels. People will just take a command grab against Mika, because her only other option is being forced to end her pressure early since she has no plus on block medium buttons and no plus on block heavy buttons, except for Lady Mika (which pushes her out far enough that it almost ends her pressure by itself).
Click to expand...
Yeah, online she's a terror, that's majority of my experience with her tbh. I feel I could beat a lot of players if I could just react to stuff. I can't count how many times I know I rolled my thumb from downback to back to block and OH and still get hit by it.

But yeah, Mika has to play footsie to get in, but she is not a spacing character like Guile or Menat is what I'm getting it. You don't have to justify Mika' weaknesses to me, I've played u in S1 and S2 and even online I notice the difference. Offline play it's easier to react to that stuff though valid point.

And lol yeah agree with the rest, it's why I also laugh at Count, Laura is f'n strong man. Mika is C-tier, but even her you can get busy with, especially online. Not Bison/Balrog level online, but she's still strong when reactions are piss poor. Command grab in general are just stronger online.
 
O

Omnistalgic

Member
TheSpoiler said:
See, but then you remove all the fun stuff though. The bullshit is part of fighting games (well, at least SF), and it's part of what makes the game kinda great. As James Chen called it, it's clown shoes. When you start removing good shit like they did with Chun then you kinda start making the game less fun to play and characters less fun to play. Weakening characters isn't really a good go-to option. We want stronger tools, not weaker ones.

That's why I'm more in favor of just giving people defensive options and toning down CCs because most of the problems come from there. (Rog def needs his V-Trigger damage toned down a bit though)

That isn't to say I'm not against adjustments. But system wide things should be implemented first before altering characters or toning them down. I feel like the system adjustments and the character adjustments aren't in tandem, so characters benefit from stressing you out more than other ones, even if the game is fairly balanced.
Click to expand...
im all for this...like I said Capcom needs to choose. When Ryu and Chun get nerfs like that and then Ibuki is designed around confusing you, Guile replaces Ryu, and Urien came out with insanely strong pressure, I had to scratch my head. Some of the S1 characters (Nash) likely still wouldn't be top tier in the current game. Give everyone derp, or bring out the nerf sticks. like you said, some characters benefit way more from triggers and system wide mechanics than others. I would be more for buffing than nerfing though agreed.

Season 3...

plz...
 
T

TheSpoiler

Member
Other games have a myriad of defensive measures. Like if someone Bursts in Gundam, shit is going to get stupid, but hey there are tons of movement options to avoid their ridiculous output and a second person to potentially save you. Like, I applaud Capcom, in a way, for having a game pretty well balanced considering the extreme lack of defense the game hosts. But if they wanna ape GG, like Pomp said, put in those defensive measures.

And they really don't have to chose between the two. Other games literally have both. GG, Gundam, even Tekken has some dumb bullshit AND ways to balance it out. SFV just doesn't have enough of the equalizers so it's rougher around the edges compared to other games. A game that's too balanced can be boring, but a game that's too busted is frustrating. Even marvel games reach a somewhat equilibrium.
 
P

Pompadour

Member
jett said:
I'd rather SF not become the overcomplicated mess that is GG.
Click to expand...

The game already has like 4 bars (Juri and Ibuki have 5) so adding another mechanic here or there doesn't seem too crazy.

I'm thinking more in line with having some mechanics that are found in KOFXIV which isn't much more than what is in SFV.
 
J

joe2187

Banned
DR2K said:
You mean the guy that rage quits, makes up lag out of thin air, and blocks anything he doesn't like at the slightest provocation is also a sexist? Well darn.
Click to expand...

The one video I remember is him fighting against BrolyLegs, talking shit and making fun of his disabilities And then Ragequitting while BrolyLegs was streaming and instantly called him out on twitter.
 
E

Etrian Oddity

Member
joe2187 said:
The one video I remember is him fighting against BrolyLegs, talking shit and making fun of his disabilities And then Ragequitting while BrolyLegs was streaming and instantly called him out on twitter.
Click to expand...
The best was when fl0e was doing a random char stream, got matched with LTG, randomly got Zangief (who fl03 admits he's not well versed in), and made LTG ragequit cuz he started whooping him. lmao

For those who haven't seen
 
K

kikiribu

Member
LTG, didn't you say you're "not a troll or someone that disrespects women"?

https://youtu.be/J346RwXPzdU @ 23 seconds

And now once again...

LTG is an alright person when he's talking about fitness routines, and I like that he sometimes prefers to use "bad" characters, but most of his opinions, combined with his donation-begging and banning people for fun on his stream, are just bad.
 
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