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Summer 2014 Anime |OT| this thread has been outsourced to Toei Phils
- Thread starter madp
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Femmeworth
Banned
Fate/Zero ep. 11
That certainly didn't come across as sexist.
That certainly didn't come across as sexist.
Turin Turambar
Member
I can't remember what happened exactly in each episode. What's was this one?
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
I approve that thread.
Femmeworth
Banned
The philosophical discussion concerning kings. Saber gets verbally slapped around by Rider and Archer.
Edit: I see more than one way to interpret the episode, so I'll hold my tongue (as far as saying it is actually sexist) until I see the rest of the series.
Even creepier than this thread pre-duckroll crackdown...most of the time.
Archer act like an dick with maiden jokes is certainly sexist, but he golden douche afterall..
but Rider slamming Saber certainly not sexist , he just don't like the philosophy behind it. its nothing to do with Saber being female. Even with little girl remark that he made is more referring to Saber's naivety.
Femmeworth
Banned
Idealistic woman verbally slapped and belittled. That's hardly reading too much into it.
I'm not talking about the whether Rider was being sexist but what the show is saying.
their criticism of saber's ruling has nothing to do with her gender whatsoever, there is no 'other way' to interpret it.
edit:
idealism and gender don't have anything to do with each other, oh please.
You're not supposed to.
Barakamon ep1
Finally a good nice relaxing show of the season. I really do like they use a child VAs for children characters for authenticity and innocence which I haven't seen since Usagi drop. I read Ono D has been very helpful and nice to the child VA teaching them how to read the difficult kanji.
Finally a good nice relaxing show of the season. I really do like they use a child VAs for children characters for authenticity and innocence which I haven't seen since Usagi drop. I read Ono D has been very helpful and nice to the child VA teaching them how to read the difficult kanji.
Femmeworth
Banned
"Oh please" yourself. Uh huh, Saber being chosen as the one to be attacked is just a coincidence.
Edit: Urobuchi comes across as being anti-idealistic through his works and it was definitely shinning here. (Admittedly, as an adaptation it is less his words but his words are at the base.)
You can say I'm misinterpreting it, but you can't say that gender isn't part of the show's discussion. Saber's gender is brought up on several occasions.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Like you said yourself, the whole show is largely about taking idealistic vision and deconstructing it. Trust me when I tell you that the show becomes more obvious with its its anti-idealism as it goes on.
As to whether it's sexist, you have to remember that nobody
While we may emphasize with Saber and her goal this is more about
. At least with this specific situation it wasn't intended as sexist. There are sexist things in the series as a whole but trust me fate zero at least attempts to better fate stay night's blatant sexism.
As to whether it's sexist, you have to remember that nobody
expected Arthur to be a woman. Archer is just an asshole so it makes sense he's sexist as shit. Rider is trying to tell saber that she's no king. Not because she's a woman but because her views are flawed.
While we may emphasize with Saber and her goal this is more about
3 different kings sharing their philosophy, and one getting verbally smacked by the other two
Turin Turambar
Member
You can see it as a woman being verbally slapped down by a man, or as a idealistic person being verbally slapped down by a practical person. I see it as the second view.
Saber being chosen to be attacked is because she and Kiritsugu are (the closest) to be the protagonist here, not because she is a woman. The scene wouldn't be as strong if it would be between secondary vs secondary character.
And because she is an idealist, that's why she receives the verbal beatdown. As you say, the writer and Fate/zero in specific likes a lot that theme, idealism/romanticism vs realism/cynicism. Usually with the second one winning, this is a brutal, gritty world! etc.
Now, what I could see as a possible sexist issue in the writing is why, from all the possible characters in the series, the one that happens to be idealist is one of the few girls, while the cool cynic badass like Kiritsugu is a guy. That, I admit it. It may sound basically the same to you, but it's an important difference.
But then you also have F/SN where the MC is a man and he is also the typical idealist/good guy, so Occam's razor explanation? : it's less sexism and more a basic storytelling trope: having a story where the protagonist is the typical idealist good guy and during the course of the story have him/her receive a brutal lesson of the realities of life. Cue drama.
Like Urubochi's Puella Magica Madoka too!
Femmeworth
Banned
I appreciate these responses.You can see it as a woman being verbally slapped down by a man, or as a idealistic person being verbally slapped down by a practical person. I see it as the second view.
Saber being chosen to be attacked is because she and Kiritsugu are (the closest) to be the protagonist here, not because she is a woman. The scene wouldn't be as strong if it would be between secondary vs secondary character.
And because she is an idealist, that's why she receives the verbal beatdown. As you say, the writer and Fate/zero in specific likes a lot that theme, idealism/romanticism vs realism/cynicism. Usually with the second one winning, this is a brutal, gritty world! etc.
Now, what I could see as a possible sexist issue in the writing is why, from all the possible characters in the series, the one that happens to be idealist is one of the few girls, while the cool cynic badass like Kiritsugu is a guy. That, I admit it. It may sound basically the same to you, but it's an important difference.
But then you also have F/SN where the MC is a man and he is also the typical idealist/good guy, so Occam's razor explanation? : it's less sexism and more a basic storytelling trope: having a story where the protagonist is the typical idealist good guy and during the course of the story have him/her receive a brutal lesson of the realities of life. Cue drama.Edgy.Like Urubochi's Puella Magica Madoka too!
This is sort of what I'm getting at. I'm not just looking at the incident isolated but in the context of what I have seen so far.
At the very least, I don't think the series is wholly sexist but it definitely has problems. Some of which are inherent like duckroll said due to it being very focused on men.
If Urobuchi is against idealism, it's not much of a stretch to think him an antifeminist and that it would be present in his works to some extent.
But he does acknowledge her gender. He calls her a little girl.
Dedication Through Light
Member
Majin Bone Episode 15
lol what was up with Luke's outfit and all those comments. The comedy was really fun this episode.
lol what was up with Luke's outfit and all those comments. The comedy was really fun this episode.
Love it when they form the Line.
yes, their criticism has nothing to do with her gender, no two ways around it.
he worked on the anime script too actually, he adapted it himself pretty much and... left out bunch of essential things in the process...
the show is about throwing different ideologies and methodologies against each other in a battle and the reward is a wish granting magic, essentially which one is better in the end and leads to what kind of end? are this ideology and that methodology compatible? etch, the actual people carrying those methodologies here are irrelevant as a person pretty much. now if you're bothered Gilgamesh is a jerk, well he's a jerk that's who he is.
Anyway, if you can't get past your perceived sexism from this show at this point and see what it's really saying, I suggest you stop watching right now because second half may look way way worse to you.
that's because he sees her way of being a 'good' king as childish and fairytale like, it's very obvious what he's saying there...
but that's actually false, in the very first episode kiritsugu says he wants to saves the world free of any conflict, he's the most idealistic in fact, it's just that his methods and that of saber's are at odds, an example of what I explained above.
Aldnoah Zero: Pretty bad. Exposition dump and nonsensical background. At least it's pretty to look at, thanks to Shimura's god-tier design work.
Sailor Moon Crystal: Better than I expected. Except for the CG and Luna coming straight out of Precure.
Sword Art Online II: God help me I'm actually looking forward to episode 2.
Sailor Moon Crystal: Better than I expected. Except for the CG and Luna coming straight out of Precure.
Sword Art Online II: God help me I'm actually looking forward to episode 2.
OH MY GOD. I-I CANT RESIST THIS
Rider is actually a chick in FSN. Its really weird.
amishpriest99
Member
Admiral Woofington
Member
If anything Kiritsugu's ideals are even analyzed and criticized more by the show and Urobuchi than Saber's. I dread showing her what they do to Saber in fsn.
Insert running away from naked saber here.
Insert running away from naked saber here.
Dedication Through Light
Member
M3 Episode 12
They threw in way too many previous clips but some narration over them helped to feel new. Just only confused about what sin they committed back then and how they are having to endure the punishment for it.
They threw in way too many previous clips but some narration over them helped to feel new. Just only confused about what sin they committed back then and how they are having to endure the punishment for it.
How is MA-vess alone in the lightless realm?
I really cant see how they can do much else for FSN other than make it look like a prettier mess.
Femmeworth
Banned
We're not going to see eye-to-eye. I get the impression that you wouldn't consider something sexist unless it was unambiguously so. Sexism isn't always malicious or intentional.
SliceSabre
Banned
Depends on what route the FSN remake is going down.
Fate Route is tame, Unlimited Blade Work is
I AM THE BONE OF MY SWORD awesome
Wait I thought Gintama was your favorite.
The flashbacks so far were indeed good and probably ma favorite thing about OP as of yet.One Piece 23-30
Still pretty slow but it was an improvement over previous arcs. I feel like the character design gets more ridiculous with every episode, that Wall Pearl guy
One thing I've been wondering, how does One piece fare in the Sakuga department compared to say, Naruto ? Better, worse ? Does it have episodes comparable to Naruto/ Shippuden 133, 167, 322 ?
You can see it as a woman being verbally slapped down by a man, or as a idealistic person being verbally slapped down by a practical person. I see it as the second view.
Saber being chosen to be attacked is because she and Kiritsugu are (the closest) to be the protagonist here, not because she is a woman. The scene wouldn't be as strong if it would be between secondary vs secondary character.
And because she is an idealist, that's why she receives the verbal beatdown. As you say, the writer and Fate/zero in specific likes a lot that theme, idealism/romanticism vs realism/cynicism. Usually with the second one winning, this is a brutal, gritty world! etc.
Now, what I could see as a possible sexist issue in the writing is why, from all the possible characters in the series, the one that happens to be idealist is one of the few girls, while the cool cynic badass like Kiritsugu is a guy. That, I admit it. It may sound basically the same to you, but it's an important difference.
But then you also have F/SN where the MC is a man and he is also the typical idealist/good guy, so Occam's razor explanation? : it's less sexism and more a basic storytelling trope: having a story where the protagonist is the typical idealist good guy and during the course of the story have him/her receive a brutal lesson of the realities of life. Cue drama.Edgy.Like Urubochi's Puella Magica Madoka too!
I'm with Woofy here, Turin do you not remember what happens to Kiritsugu over the course of the series? We get a pretty extensive look at the multiple times the idealism is smacked right out of him over the course of the show. A lot of this a bit later in the series though so Femmeworth hasn't gotten to that point yet but the show is pretty even handed on calling people out on their shit (or more accurately making them "look dumb" for having happy thoughts/aspirations
).KillerMan91
Member
It has also some sakuga episodes but not until much later.
I went over all of your points of concern about a TV show and tried to explain they're very far fetched at best, that's what I said nothing more.
and
If that's how you judge people I definitely don't want to see eye-to-eye.
Dedication Through Light
Member
Date-A-Life Episode 10 (funidub)
Shido could do more than just seal and regenerate kind of felt odd for his role in the series
Shido could do more than just seal and regenerate kind of felt odd for his role in the series
just being essentially used to take hits and thats it. Like in the fight with fire spirit Kotori. Still best fight in the whole series, Kurumi's skills are pretty epic
FelixOrion
Poet Centuriate
I've forgotten what this word means.
Joke on them though: I'm a skeleton, I have no brain!
Aww yeah
chickdigger802
Banned
hmmm read up on UQ holder. Still not really feeling the protag, but its been fun so far. like scifi + magic. Save State girl is pretty much just the megane from negima lol.
Think ill reread negima. maybe this time ill understand all that Mar's alternate fake world nonsense.
Think ill reread negima. maybe this time ill understand all that Mar's alternate fake world nonsense.
Turin Turambar
Member
I'm with Woofy here, Turin do you not remember what happens to Kiritsugu over the course of the series? We get a pretty extensive look at the multiple times the idealism is smacked right out of him over the course of the show. A lot of this a bit later in the series though so Femmeworth hasn't gotten to that point yet but the show is pretty even handed on calling people out on their shit (or more accurately making them "look dumb" for having happy thoughts/aspirations
I know, it's another point to consider. I didn't mention it because spoilers.
Fate/Zero Episode 2 and 3
I went back today to rewatch Episode 1 to get a better understanding since I still had alot of confusion about who is who since they introduce so many characters in the beginning. I like this whole idea of each of the families have their own Servents, but there are also two characters who probably not meant to be the final Holy Grail War participants but they end up with Servants anyway. So far my favorite characters are Kiritsugu, Sabre, and Rider/Waver combo, but mostly Rider since he's been pretty funny in alot of the scenes he has been in so far. That one guy who summons that Frogish eyed looking servent Bluebeard (who is his master anyway, didn't catch his name) is kinda interesting as he has no clue what he just got himself into.
Really like the whole premise and setup for this show so far, and the ED that got me so hyped is actually the OP!! <3
I went back today to rewatch Episode 1 to get a better understanding since I still had alot of confusion about who is who since they introduce so many characters in the beginning. I like this whole idea of each of the families have their own Servents, but there are also two characters who probably not meant to be the final Holy Grail War participants but they end up with Servants anyway. So far my favorite characters are Kiritsugu, Sabre, and Rider/Waver combo, but mostly Rider since he's been pretty funny in alot of the scenes he has been in so far. That one guy who summons that Frogish eyed looking servent Bluebeard (who is his master anyway, didn't catch his name) is kinda interesting as he has no clue what he just got himself into.
I thought Bluebeard was gonna end up being all nice guy.... but then noooooope. Sorry kid
Well that's not good.
So like 200's, 300's ? That's not good at all.
Fate/Zero Episode 2 and 3
I went back today to rewatch Episode 1 to get a better understanding since I still had alot of confusion about who is who since they introduce so many characters in the beginning. I like this whole idea of each of the families have their own Servents, but there are also two characters who probably not meant to be the final Holy Grail War participants but they end up with Servants anyway. So far my favorite characters are Kiritsugu, Sabre, and Rider/Waver combo, but mostly Rider since he's been pretty funny in alot of the scenes he has been in so far. That one guy who summons that Frogish eyed looking servent Bluebeard (who is his master anyway, didn't catch his name) is kinda interesting as he has no clue what he just got himself into.Really like the whole premise and setup for this show so far, and the ED that got me so hyped is actually the OP!! <3I thought Bluebeard was gonna end up being all nice guy.... but then noooooope. Sorry kid
Blubeard's master is Ryuunosuke Uryuu. (Does Bluebeard even have a beard in this show ? )
You're pretty exaggerating jebus, there's nothing wrong with her claim IMO
I think F/Z does use some sexism as plot device but there's nothing malicious in it and doesn't mean to belittle one gender, its not showing anything more than True Detective more for example, like duckroll said there's some sight about female that told from male-centric point of view and ego in the show. I want said more but afraid gonna spoiling something from femme.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Rider is the best character and whoever says otherwise is wrong. Waver just happens to be with him that's why he is as well liked.Fate/Zero Episode 2 and 3
I went back today to rewatch Episode 1 to get a better understanding since I still had alot of confusion about who is who since they introduce so many characters in the beginning. I like this whole idea of each of the families have their own Servents, but there are also two characters who probably not meant to be the final Holy Grail War participants but they end up with Servants anyway. So far my favorite characters are Kiritsugu, Sabre, and Rider/Waver combo, but mostly Rider since he's been pretty funny in alot of the scenes he has been in so far. That one guy who summons that Frogish eyed looking servent Bluebeard (who is his master anyway, didn't catch his name) is kinda interesting as he has no clue what he just got himself into.Really like the whole premise and setup for this show so far, and the ED that got me so hyped is actually the OP!! <3I thought Bluebeard was gonna end up being all nice guy.... but then noooooope. Sorry kid
LOL I did like the part where he slapped Waver for being so arrogant and selfish about his wish. I also really like Saber also so far.
Is she really supposed to be King Arthur from the past?
Admiral Woofington
Member
Rider only gets more awesome as the show goes on. Like he takes everything that is manly ans makes it manlier. He's also the ultimate bro and best leader.
I'd follow that man to hell and back with a tea spoon and squirtgun as my only defense and I'd still be the happiest man ever.
I'd go DTL for rider. That magnificent bastard. The stallion that will mount the world.
He's even better in English dub because he's voiced by Liam o brien. And he makes everything he's in better. Also rider is voiced by none other than Lu Bu. Seriously what better choice could there be for voicing rider?
I'd follow that man to hell and back with a tea spoon and squirtgun as my only defense and I'd still be the happiest man ever.
I'd go DTL for rider. That magnificent bastard. The stallion that will mount the world.
He's even better in English dub because he's voiced by Liam o brien. And he makes everything he's in better. Also rider is voiced by none other than Lu Bu. Seriously what better choice could there be for voicing rider?
SliceSabre
Banned
He tried so hard. He wasn't perfect and fucked up a lot but damn did he try to do the right thing. He was my favorite.
You know he just act stupid like his last delusion shown.
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