Super Mario 64 Is Still The Best 3D Platformer

I'd agree that Sunshine has better controls (especially wall jumps and the beautiful secret levels) if it wasn't for the long jump. Oh lord the long jump was, is, and will remain control genius. I mean run, slightest tap on the z trigger, press A and wahooo. So smooth it brings tears to the eyes. Plus it invented the side flip and thankfully SMS retained it. That move just makes so much sense it's crazy.


Mario 64 had more wonder to it then any other game I've played. When I found the secret room from the first water level room and ended up in a tower filled with water I was just flabbergasted. Such an amazing idea. The secret level hidden in sun painting on the ceiling, meeting the penguin in the ice cottage. how you enter the ghost level, hanging on the owl, riding the loch ness monster, surfing on lava via turtle shell.

Mario 64 also has the best piece of midi composition in Dry Dry Docks.
 
Still not seeing it. The things most of you mention have similar equivalents in other platformers. Oh wows you can find secret areas and ride on stuff! By these definitions, Sly 2 might as well be the best platformer ever, with its set pieces, open levels and multiple ways to get around. You even get to ride on/drive things sometimes!
 
Well I guess its the "pop culture" nature of Mario.

It takes a lot of ideas I think think of as a kid ... I want a game with a pirate ship, and a submarine, a pyramid that you can inside, and a volcano too, etc. etc. etc.

These are kind of "archetypes" if you see what I mean.

It's not just the fact that you can ride around on something.

Mario 64 would be a very good game if you had a standard desert level. What makes it a great game is it has a pyramid in that desert level that you can go inside ... and inside of it is basically another great little level to play around in.

There's also a certain "cohesiveness" to Mario 64's worlds. The levels don't seem like they're just randomly throw together after one another. The castle hub idea was ingenious, and then being able to do things later on in the game, like drain the water out of the moat to access a different area ... man that's just cool.
 
Azih said:
I'd agree that Sunshine has better controls (especially wall jumps and the beautiful secret levels) if it wasn't for the long jump. Oh lord the long jump was, is, and will remain control genius. I mean run, slightest tap on the z trigger, press A and wahooo. So smooth it brings tears to the eyes. Plus it invented the side flip and thankfully SMS retained it. That move just makes so much sense it's crazy.


Mario 64 had more wonder to it then any other game I've played. When I found the secret room from the first water level room and ended up in a tower filled with water I was just flabbergasted. Such an amazing idea. The secret level hidden in sun painting on the ceiling, meeting the penguin in the ice cottage. how you enter the ghost level, hanging on the owl, riding the loch ness monster, surfing on lava via turtle shell.

Mario 64 also has the best piece of midi composition in Dry Dry Docks.
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Yep. The kicker is there are SO MANY of these moments, there's no way to list them all. The game is just a masterpiece all around. The controls just make so much sense. The attention to detail is crazy. I also remember the first moment that sun ray was coming down in the middle of the castle, and I just so happend to look up to see what it was, and then WHOOSH, I was trasnported to this level using the flying cap for the first time. Pure crazyness.

*Leaves forum to go play some more Mario DS.*
 
Hanging on the owl is such a friggin cool moment, when you look down at the ice mountain from way up in the sky and you can say "hey I was just down at that point a few minutes ago".

The little mini-gondola at the bottom of the ice mountain was awesome too.

Even though I'm not a huge fan of the GTA series, I can see why its popular for its audience, because I think it provides that audience a similar type of feeling as Super Mario 64 does. Not just the pure freedom, but the design and details within that scope of freedom.
 
People still love mario; when I took Mario DS to school, people were completely fascinated by it: Not just by Mario 64, but by the minigames. There's really just a certain charm that appeals to people in these games. Nintendo recaptured that charm in Sunshine, but not to its full extent, I believe. However, they still have a LOT of charm, and people DO still love their marios
 
sunshine was fucking horrible. Mario 64 was a fucking masterpiece.

I agree.

Could PoP be considered as a platformer? if so then its easily the 2nd best platformer
 
Matlock said:
Sunshine > 64 for level design and controls.
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That's what I'd say. Though the areas in Sunshine were still woefully inconsistent compared to 64, and not as varied. So I find it hard to pick one over the other.

Sunshine didn't have the 'awe' of 64 for me, but I think I may have actually enjoyed it more.

-edit- nah, that can't be true. SM64 really did knock me off my socks back then. For what it's worth, I guess, I'd sooner go back to SMS.
 
While I'm the first one to say that a lot of games get painted with rose-colored glasses due to nostalgia, Mario 64 is the real deal. Playing it again now, yeah. It feels fresh even today, and that's just the old stuff - now the new content they added.

I do still personally think Sunshine is better in a lot of ways, including the hub being better - the town square on Delfino is the best hub design I've seen so far, fascinating and bursting with life and personality. Comparing the two games, graphic quality aside of course, I would stack them up like this:

Mario 64

* Surreal worlds capture the spirit of the equally surreal 2D Mario universe.
* A great variety of worlds, covering just about every base in action-game-land
* Brilliant, non-linear objectives that are still the best and most truly non-linear of all the games that came after it.
*An amazingly pick-up-and-play experience were you can jump in for 10 minutes to grab one star, or explore the game at leasure for 5 hours.
*Shockingly refined for one of the first games of its kind, and everyone else is still catching up in some areas.
*A perfect visual style for Mario in 3D

Mario Sunshine

*An amazing hub world, building on the idea from Mario 64
*Fewer world types but a strong consistent theme for the entire game with the vacation idea.
*Contrary to haters's claims, the water pack doesn't take away anything from the traditional gameplay and you can still do most things the "old school way". But it adds a lot of new wrinkles and is perfectly suited to the water and island theme.
*A great integration of adventure and action elements - far, far better than games like Sonic Adventure 1.
*Very intricate platforming with multiple ways to attack it thanks to the water pack.
*Not as flexible or non-linear due to more instanced shine missions, but missions were usually more complex and intense.
*Soundtrack ever so slightly edges out Mario 64, but it's a close call.

If I hadda say which one was better, it's really fricking tough. Overall, I'd have to say Sunshine is the better game package; it's obvious they learned a lot from Mario 64 as good as it was already and there's a lot of refinement. Plus maybe the best 3D action game control ever. Mario 64 is still totally classic through and through though, and some of its worlds are unequaled.
 
drohne said:
i maintain that a game consisting entirely of platforming mini-levels in the style of mario sunshine's would be the greatest game ever. or close enough to it. sadly, mario sunshine scatters a handful of them through a deadening travesty of mario 64's ideas.
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Agreed 100%. The only reason I kept on plugging through Mario Sunshine was for those levels. They were just classic. If I still had my GameCube, and Sunshine I would probably dig it out right now just because those levels were so much damn fun.

Not that the rest of the game wasn't good, but it was lacking a certain vareity and style that the Mario title as a platfomer deserves.

Oh, and on topic, Mario 64 does indeed rock. Playing through the DS version like most of you now, and I can't tell you how many times I've gotten to a new level and just been floored with how well I remember and how well executed everything is. Great great stuff. (Even the lack of great controls can't kill this game. And I'm even using the d-pad. Couldn't stand the floaty-ness of the stylus control.)
 
Bought an import N64 just for Mario 64 when it was released, totally hyped for it. I was underwhelmed by the game and stopped playing at the last boss. Haven't played it since then. I still have problems with the so-called 3D platformers. They're more about exploration than platforming, more about perfecting the camera view than a jump attack. I guess it's unevitable with them being in 3D, and I've tried to accept it...but 3D platformers still haven't clicked with me. With a few exceptions, like Klonoa 1 and 2. Probably because those games have 2/2.5D gameplay in a 3D world. More 3D platformers should be like that.
 
Have to disagree.
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Alright, let's see where this goes.

The game had its time in the sun. I think too many of you are taking minor details and extrapolating them into strokes of genius, when they're not. They're just that, minor details. Cool, but a lot of games incorporate those and I don't think M64 is the best at it, either.
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The reason that we bring up these minor details is not because these details alone result in "the best 3-d platformer ever," but rather these are some of the moments we enjoyed that came together to form the enjoyable whole of the game. There were so many of these details throughout the game experience that they enhance the whole. Some were distinct (like finding out you could go inside the volcano and find a whole new level within) and some were subtle (like the feeling you got when you first came across the liquid metal pool in the castle). We list these examples because there's no other way to convey the experience in any meaningful way. Ask someone why FF3/6 was so great and they might mention that Shadow has dreams, or about finding good fish instead of bad fish to feed Cid, or finding Potions inside of grandfather clocks, etc. Each of those are simply tiny moments that come together to form a cohesive, consistent, and therefore engrossing experience.

Its a landmark title for sure, but so was Pong, but there are better-designed games than that out there.
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Not exactly an analogous comparison - remake pong 8 years after it came out and no one would write on a forum about it. Tetris would be a better example, and many claim that to be the best example of a puzzle game out there - the one that "got it all right."

M64 marks some technical achievements in the industry (and even that is debatable with Tomb Raider out there) and it was a good showing of what was new and capable at the time, but there are simply better designed platformers out there these days.
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The level design of Tomb Raider worked well, however the control of the character left much to be desired. Mario 64 got both aspects right. With Tomb Raider, I never got over fighting the controls to get Lara to do what I wanted her to do. Contrast that with Mario, whose analog control allowed me to jump, double jump, triple-jump, wall-jump, long-jump, backflip, side-flip, and even do a little breakdance move when I felt like amusing those watching the game (without the "fighting the controls" feeling), and you realize how much of an achievement Mario was, and how much Tomb Raider pales in that respect.

We tend to emphasize things when they feel fresh and new and that feeling can become part of memories, which is why nostalgia is such a big factor. We have the memory of it being so fun and fresh and new when we first played it that most of us can't shake that feeling all these years later, but the reality is that its still pretty dated and other games have exceeded it in time.
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Hrmm... I'm undecided as to how to approach this... you know, I'll take the easy road and agree: Mario 64 was so damn good... so fun and fresh... that I can't shake that feeling, even after playing Banjo, Conker, Jak, Ape, Ratchet, Sunshine, etc... you're right... I just can't shake that feeling. :)

~Cris
 
Belfast said:
Still not seeing it. The things most of you mention have similar equivalents in other platformers. Oh wows you can find secret areas and ride on stuff!
Click to expand...

Yes, but Mario 64 did it BEST. And it did it ALL.
 
shibbs said:
Mario 64 is the best because it came first but Banjo-kazooie is really close.
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BK is the only other platformer I really enjoyed on the N64. Never finished it though, got too hard or I wussied out or something. It did a lot of stuff really well (like all the Kazooie abilities) but I still prefer Mario 64 overall...
 
Super Mario 64>>>>>>>>>>BK

Too much collecting going on in BK to enjoy the damn game.

The Sly series is great, even if it isn't a traditional platformer..
 
Mario 64 remains one of my favourite games of all time even to this day. I went back to the N64 version a few months ago and feared that it might not have aged well. Aside from the initial awe I experienced back in 1997, it still remains as enjoyable to play as it did back then. Ppl have mentioned many reasons why it's still an excellent game but I still think actually controlling Mario was still the best thing about the game and why it still remains better then most 3D platformers. You just NEVER felt limited by how you could control Mario. But Mario 64 is still the sum of many parts which makes it so good. Mario Sunshine has excellent controls but was lacking in many areas. And I can't believe someone in this topic mentioned that the music in Sunshine was better! Nooo way!

Banjo-Kazooie and Conker are probably my two other favourite platformers. But in BK, even with the huge variety of moves, I still felt "limited" by the controls. They just didn't control as fluidly or smoothly as Mario.

Can't wait to play this on DS. Might have to import... I've got plenty to play now though which is the only reason I haven't imported. (Aussie gamer).
 
Super Mario 64 is the best game of all time. That is all. The only thing that comes close is Zelda:OoT, but even that work of art must fall to the force that is Super Mario 64.


Or... maybe nostalgia is making me type this right now.
 
I felt more awed by Mario 64, but I like Banjo Kazooie a little more. That board game finale was awesome.

Banjo Tooie, on the other hand, is a much worse sequel than Mario Sunshine is.
 
XMonkey said:
Super Mario 64 is the best game of all time. That is all. The only thing that comes close is Zelda:OoT, but even that work of art must fall to the force that is Super Mario 64.


Or... maybe nostalgia is making me type this right now.
Click to expand...
No, it's the truth.
 
I agree. I'm trying to think of another 3D platformer that I had more fun with, and I can't think of any.
 
Kaijima said:
While I'm the first one to say that a lot of games get painted with rose-colored glasses due to nostalgia, Mario 64 is the real deal. Playing it again now, yeah. It feels fresh even today, and that's just the old stuff - now the new content they added.

I do still personally think Sunshine is better in a lot of ways, including the hub being better - the town square on Delfino is the best hub design I've seen so far, fascinating and bursting with life and personality. Comparing the two games, graphic quality aside of course, I would stack them up like this:

Mario 64

* Surreal worlds capture the spirit of the equally surreal 2D Mario universe.
* A great variety of worlds, covering just about every base in action-game-land
* Brilliant, non-linear objectives that are still the best and most truly non-linear of all the games that came after it.
*An amazingly pick-up-and-play experience were you can jump in for 10 minutes to grab one star, or explore the game at leasure for 5 hours.
*Shockingly refined for one of the first games of its kind, and everyone else is still catching up in some areas.
*A perfect visual style for Mario in 3D

Mario Sunshine

*An amazing hub world, building on the idea from Mario 64
*Fewer world types but a strong consistent theme for the entire game with the vacation idea.
*Contrary to haters's claims, the water pack doesn't take away anything from the traditional gameplay and you can still do most things the "old school way". But it adds a lot of new wrinkles and is perfectly suited to the water and island theme.
*A great integration of adventure and action elements - far, far better than games like Sonic Adventure 1.
*Very intricate platforming with multiple ways to attack it thanks to the water pack.
*Not as flexible or non-linear due to more instanced shine missions, but missions were usually more complex and intense.
*Soundtrack ever so slightly edges out Mario 64, but it's a close call.

If I hadda say which one was better, it's really fricking tough. Overall, I'd have to say Sunshine is the better game package; it's obvious they learned a lot from Mario 64 as good as it was already and there's a lot of refinement. Plus maybe the best 3D action game control ever. Mario 64 is still totally classic through and through though, and some of its worlds are unequaled.
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Well, you've got most things right, but the biggest problem I had with Sunshine is hard to explain, it's the way Mario controls, I dunno.. the controls feel TOO tight maybe? Maybe the tropical theme had something to do with it too, but I just feel BORED from playing Super Mario Sunshine after every few shines. I love Super Mario 64's controls much more even though they aren't as "refined". SM64 is one of, if not my favourite game of all time, Super Mario Sunshine is just "really good".

Oh, and also, who else loved those underwater parts of SMS where you have the thingy on your head? I enjoyed them a lot for some bizarre reason.
 
MrparisSM said:
Because at the time everyone was saying how catridges wouldn't be enough for 3D games.
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Actually, most of the media buzz at the time was saying that cd based games wouldn't be able to do free roaming large 3d levels, due to data streaming issues. This was reinforced by certain comments made by miyamoto about Nintendo's decision to go with cartridges plus linear structured 3d games like Crash Bandicoot.
 
mario_cover.jpg


We knew it back then, we know it now.

~Cris
 
I know nostalgia is speaking for me here, since I haven't spent too much time with the DS version, but Mario 64 is the only 3D platformer that every took a hold of me, whereas I used to love tons of 2D platformers.

Basically...

Sho Nuff said:
Yes, but Mario 64 did it BEST. And it did it ALL.
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XS+ said:
Ape Escape, for me. While Mario 64 was a technical masterpiece, it lacked personality. Ape Escape had that in spades. I've never enjoyed a platformer as much as I did Ape Escape.
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Oh boy, monkeys. Great.
 
Banjo Kazooie has outdone Mario64. Mario64 is so dated now while Banjo Kazooie still holds up on its own.
 
Yes it is. I'd also say it's the most jaw dropping game ever. I spent the first 20 minutes in front of the castle, just swimming, jumping, walking around. Free movement matched with perfect control.

I couldn't help but to be underwhelmed by Sunshine. It's still a grea game but i stopped playing around the 30th star.
 
I think others have responded to you the way I would have Belfast. It's not that you can ride stuff and find secret levels. It's the charm and execution of the things that you can ride and the stuff that you find. Dropping down to the bottom of the metal cavern stage running down the path, seeing a large lake and wait.. what the heck? There's a huge monster just peacefully swimming around in there! That was just pure awe.

Most of the best moments of Mario 64 came completely out of the blue, and were completely unexpected in a way that has never been replicated. Mario 64 had dozens upon dozens of great ideas and so there were always surprises right around the corner and no idea got over used.

And Bowsers Road and Dry Dry Docks in and of themselves > SMS soundtrack. Hell the only standout track on SMS is the Secret Levels theme, which is pretty appropriate actually.
 
My all time favorite 3D platformers are Super Mario 64, Banjo-Kazooie and Jak2. I can't decide which game is really better. At least, those are sure better than Mario Sunshine. ;)

**received and Nbot missile by the head
 
Sunshine's problems and the reasons why Super Mario 64 is superior:

Lack of levels
Blue coins for shines (ugh)
Yohi was underused
Cutscenes we just bad
Voices ditto

The bottom line is SMS was rushed. Had they kept it in the cooker for another 8-12 months and it would definitely have been the better of the two games. Nintendo, don't let this happen again. REMEMBER SUNSHINE!
 
In its historic context it is one of the best games ever made but is it really a better overall game than say a Ratchet and Clank 3? I know its hard to judge objectively, but if the game came out today, and wasn't Mario, would it really be received the same way. I'm not trying to hate, as SM64 is in my top ten games of all time, but I think you have to put it in context.
 
Mugen said:
Banjo Kazooie has outdone Mario64. Mario64 is so dated now while Banjo Kazooie still holds up on its own.
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Yep. BK outdid everything Mario did & then some. While SM64 deserves props for being the first truly great 3D platformer, Banjo-Kazooie is a better game.
 
jetjevons said:
In its historic context it is one of the best games ever made but is it really a better overall game than say a Ratchet and Clank 3? I know its hard to judge objectively, but if the game came out today, and wasn't Mario, would it really be received the same way. I'm not trying to hate, as SM64 is in my top ten games of all time, but I think you have to put it in context.
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The thing you have to ask yourself is this.

What does Ratchet and Clank 3 add to this generation? (graphics, gameplay, content)

Is it more or less than Mario 64 added to its generation? (graphics, gameplay, content)
 
though i've only played the first 2 Ratchet and Clank games (aside from the demo of 3), the series always struck me as more of an action/shooter than a platformer. It would be like comparing Turrican or Contra to Super Mario World or Yoshi's Island.
 
Belfast said:
Still not seeing it. The things most of you mention have similar equivalents in other platformers. Oh wows you can find secret areas and ride on stuff! By these definitions, Sly 2 might as well be the best platformer ever, with its set pieces, open levels and multiple ways to get around. You even get to ride on/drive things sometimes!
Click to expand...

I agree with this person
Mario 64 may have been the best 3D platformer when it came out but not now. Nintendo fans are livinng in Ninrendo past.
 
levious said:
Where is Defenders of the Looneyverse?
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I think someone on the board who was associated with Conspiracy (maybe it was jetjevons) said a while back that it was completed, and then never released because of financial issues.
 
Azih said:
I think others have responded to you the way I would have Belfast. It's not that you can ride stuff and find secret levels. It's the charm and execution of the things that you can ride and the stuff that you find. Dropping down to the bottom of the metal cavern stage running down the path, seeing a large lake and wait.. what the heck? There's a huge monster just peacefully swimming around in there! That was just pure awe.

Most of the best moments of Mario 64 came completely out of the blue, and were completely unexpected in a way that has never been replicated. Mario 64 had dozens upon dozens of great ideas and so there were always surprises right around the corner and no idea got over used.

And Bowsers Road and Dry Dry Docks in and of themselves > SMS soundtrack. Hell the only standout track on SMS is the Secret Levels theme, which is pretty appropriate actually.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but you cannot honestly say that other games do not have these moments. LOTS of platformers have neat set pieces these days. Mario 64 may have been thef irst game to come together like this, but others have done it as well.
 
FoneBone said:
I think someone on the board who was associated with Conspiracy (maybe it was jetjevons) said a while back that it was completed, and then never released because of financial issues.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's why I asked, I was hoping for an update from him.
 
edit: i maintain that a game consisting entirely of platforming mini-levels in the style of mario sunshine's would be the greatest game ever. or close enough to it. sadly, mario sunshine scatters a handful of them through a deadening travesty of mario 64's ideas.
Click to expand...

I had the same feelings when playing SMS. I loathed playing the normal levels and looked forward to the mini levels.
 
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