Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 9: F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5
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PadWarrior
Member
Ravio from A Link Between Worlds.
sells you stuff in ALBW
since when are videogames like those made by one person!? ;P
Sakurai, SAKURAI, SAKURAI!!... he "didnt" make melee, HAL Laboratory made melee. HAL Laboratory didnt make Brawl. Sakurai (and other, i guess) worked on both, thought.
Come on, Melee Vs Brawl is getting old. Let unite together in awe of Sakurai's Cat
I see Horizon has finally gotten the better of you
PadWarrior
Member
Beelzebufo
Banned
Sakurai essentially had complete control over both projects.
Isn't that the reason why we have
spoiler tags
Uses like that are the reason spoiler tags aren't enough. More often than anything else, the tags get used for sarcasm or other extra info. Even if we assume every
spoiler tag
Not that I think you don't know all this.
MannyToons
Member
Come on, Melee Vs Brawl is getting old. Let unite together in awe of Sakurai's Cat
How about Sakurai as a cat?
I wouldn't mind that at all, Isaac and Golden Sun have a lot of fans and I have no doubt he'd be unique, but I don't think it's all that likely. I think if GS was ever going to have a character it would have been in Brawl.
So given that they've been nerfing projectiles a lot recently, how shit is Ness going to be now?
We're not going to have aerial PK fire be cancellable anymore are we? It's not as if he isn't one of the worst already so considering noone else has cancellable aerial projectiles his PK fire could be worse.
PK flash will probably still be a useless move that makes you go into special fall in the air for no reason.
They won't buff his yoyo back to melee/P:M levels again either.
Being a Ness player is suffering.
The one positive thing is reduced SDI making it so that PK fire actually traps everyone and not just people that don't have a functioning brain.
We're not going to have aerial PK fire be cancellable anymore are we? It's not as if he isn't one of the worst already so considering noone else has cancellable aerial projectiles his PK fire could be worse.
PK flash will probably still be a useless move that makes you go into special fall in the air for no reason.
They won't buff his yoyo back to melee/P:M levels again either.
Being a Ness player is suffering.
The one positive thing is reduced SDI making it so that PK fire actually traps everyone and not just people that don't have a functioning brain.
Weltall Zero
Member
I love how you guys have been arguing about this for hours and nobody bothered to point out the essential flaw in Beelzebufo's logic; namely, that more options in a game do NOT guarantee it to be a better game. Strictly speaking, a game is a collection of rules, and rules are there precisely to determine what can't be done. Chess is not a better game if you make it so that all pieces can move like the queen. Mario is not a better game if you give him the ability to fly. There is such a thing as substractive design.
I'm not saying Melee is not mechanically better than Brawl (IMHO, it IS), but it is not a fact that can be demonstrated in a few phrases. Implying that the fact that it has more movement options than Brawl automatically proves its superiority is hilarious at best.
I'm not saying Melee is not mechanically better than Brawl (IMHO, it IS), but it is not a fact that can be demonstrated in a few phrases. Implying that the fact that it has more movement options than Brawl automatically proves its superiority is hilarious at best.
A link between worlds.
I know, he was the director. Also, sakurai loves to say how much control he has over "his" (;P) games.
But people talk about sakurai like if the teams that actually made those games didnt matter.
For example, mario 3d world had two directors. Would the game have been comparable if it had been made by another team but with the same 2 directors!? The answer is (i think): NO, the EAD tokyo team matters (and 1-UP studio that also helped).
I think that we cant compare melee with brawl because melee was made by HAL laboratory and brawl was not. Sakurai directing (or doing whatever he wants) with melee and brawl is not enough for me for directly comparing both games
Does anyone here have any specific thoughts as to why talking about Brawl v. Melee / Smash/ Games is so hard?
Does anyone think it's TOO HARD to talk about games in a constructive, debate like fashion?
Is the kind of stuff we're seeing in this thread doing more harm than good? Does anyone have hope? What would it take?
I'm all ears. PM me if you want.
Weltall Zero
Member
Oh, I have zero interest in the Melee vs Brawl debate; it was already stale half a decade ago. I just found it funny for an argument to go on for so long without anyone pointing out that gaping logic flaw.
The easy answer is that it's the internet and vitriol and lack of restraint are the rule, as opposed to the exception.
In my experience, conversations don't get much better in real life about Smash or other games/topics. Sure the internet brings out some of the worst in the way we deal with each other... but it only brings it out. That means it's there to begin with.
hmmm
More movement options means that there are more things a player can do at any time and increase the amount of clever predictions or reads that an opponent needs to make to be able to beat the other player, this makes the game a more interesting game to play at a competitive level because it's more engaging and it makes it more engaging for the spectators because it makes matches more dynamic, thus allowing things to happen that you might not have seen before due to all the possible interactions in the game.
So yes, giving a player more options in a fighting game does make the game fundamentally better and I'm surprised that so many fucking people try to argue against this.
Because melee was a brilliant game for competitive play and casual play whereas brawl went in the direction of alienating one audience for the game, this pissed off the competitive audience for smash but because it increased the amount of things that casuals would appreciate they started to look down on competitive players for not enjoying what we've been given without fully understanding (or caring, honestly) what the competitive audience wants.
I'm just going to flat out state that casuals don't give a fuck about how the game plays as long as they have shiny things to look at, it's why whenever you mention stuff about making smash 4 more competitive you're guaranteed to get replies of "stop trying to make it more like melee", despite changes making it better for all levels of play.
The vocal anti-competitive fanbase have become somewhat entitled due to brawl and sakurai's general attitude, thinking that the game should be for them only and that smash is supposed to be as anti-competitive as possible.
I really don't mind smash at a casual level, but I really wish that audience would stop trying to butt into conversations about mechanics that they don't understand, especially when it doesn't affect their enjoyment of the game whatsoever.
Geminosity
Member
Not gonna happen but if it did: Instant main for me :3
I kinda pointed out that it's not really that random in the hyrule warriors thread but as a quick recap:
* She already appeared as a trophy in brawl
* The twilight princess devs seemed quite fond of her themselves:
So basically there's hints that some folk in Nintendo already kind of liked her. I suspect she was fairly well recieved as a character in Japan for being the only gothic lolita in Hyrule and there's plenty of clean fan art of her :3
She can practically taste his delicious tears. mmm... :3
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
We still have no Star Fox stage!
These are some strong words. I've seen a lot said about Smash from both (all) sides. Some of the newest views come from the side pushing back against the "casuals" who are against the "competitive."
Believe me, I can relate to how you feel.
I see the root of our (all smahers) problem is in how we communicate. There's so much to say and so much of that is very difficult to articulate. So instead, we, as most people do, take short cuts which don't inform or get to the heart of the issues.
This comment isn't directed at you specifically. Just talking out loud. I wonder though, do you have any hope of better communication among smashers?
They're strong words because I love the smash series, I truly do, I love it so much that I have a very hard time articulating my thoughts about the community and what it means as a whole that I'm just going to jot down thoughts instead of trying to construct some long paragraph.
Smash is unique in that it's a fighting game with an incredibly low input barrier compared to other fighting games but also has a deceptive amount of possible depth to the game.
It's the type of game that I'm still playing for several hours a day just because I still have so much to learn and get good at, I want smash 4 to have that same amount of playability rather than being something I only play a few times a week everytime a group of friends come round.
I want it to be competitive because I want it to grow. I want everybody to be able to have a local tournament scene because the game is accessible and anyone can play it. I want people to watch it on MLG or EVO streams with the top players in the world playing it and see things that they didn't think were possible and get excited about the game. Then they can go and try these things out with their friends without being put off by hard controls.
I want all this because EVO 2013 gave me a taste of how big smash can truly be, I want more people to go to tournaments so I can make more friends and hang out playing a game we all love.
And hearing certain people, with their stupid opinions that aren't based on any facts and their condescending, dismissive tone telling me that the game doesn't need to be competitive, or that the game is worse when it's competitive, actively wanting the game to be less than what it could be breaks my fucking heart because I truly don't understand how they could say things like that and want or believe them.
And yes, smash 4 probably will be competitive either way and have a following just like Brawl did, but Brawl wasn't a good competitive game, it didn't grow the scene and it wasn't exciting to play or watch. I'm fine with people enjoying it because I also enjoyed it at first, but I hate it more than any game from the last generation for what it did to the smash bros. community.
There's literally nowhere on the internet that I consider a totally positive place to talk about smash anymore, and I put the blame almost entirely on brawl.
Cloud Strife
Member
Likely a timed reveal with a certain charact-FALCOOOOOOOOOO
Uh, he already revealed Final Destination.
But Final Destination is a terrible for Fox because he's a fast faller!
If what you were implying was the fox only, FD meme anyway
They're probably waiting for Miyamoto's new Star Fox game for inspiration...
Smash Wii U for 4Q 2015 confirmed.
I think the main issue at play is that different people want different things from the series. We can all list the advantages and disadvantages of the two games all day, but if BrawlPlayer8 doesn't care about hitstun and dash dancing, and MeleeDude14 isn't concerned with having 10 extra characters and new modes, then the two won't come to the same opinion.
Difference of opinion is something that still is there and can be annoying, even when well communicated.
What do you feel about these games isn't being communicated effectively and objectively?
(Btw, I used to enjoy reading your blog. Haven't checked it in years; do you still update it?)
What? Pit is amazing in Project M.
Troubled Bat
Member
Have you seen what Pit can do?
Mr. Smiley
Member
If P:M tournaments are any to go by, Pit and at least Ivysaur are force in P:M.
Now does Pit have a more boring-looking moveset? Sure.
Wreck-It Ralph
Member
PadWarrior
Member
I've read on some forums that' he needs to be nerfed due to his arrow. I hear a guy named armada is a beast with him.
Eh, I just like to spam side-b and glide with him but can't do anymore. Then they split up the pokemon trainer and make em all bad. They don't even have a FS. I guess Squirtle is the best of the 3 though.
I've never heard any competitive player say they aren't interested in new modes and extra characters, the implication that the competitive community don't/can't/won't also enjoy the game at a casual level for the content is somewhat insulting.
If the two don't come to the same opinion then it's because the casual player feels entitled to his style of play over all others or has a bad attitude towards competitive players, reasonable competitive players will want things that add to the games depth without scaring away casuals and if the casual player is arguing against them then it's just because it's something suggested by a competitive player.
I mean look at the change to the ledge that stops players camping on it due to a lack of invincibility, this is something that makes the game more interesting as a competitive game compared to brawl's ledge stalling, but this concept wasn't really something the competitive community was vocal about.
So now you have people calling it an "interesting change", but I can guarantee if the competitive community were asking for it before it was described there would be backlash too it, and if it was then implemented afterwards, people would complain that sakurai was pandering to a fanbase that doesn't "deserve" it or start being all "there, he gave you what you want now you'd have to be entitled to ask for it to be more competitive"
Ivysaur is quite good, and Charizard isn't too bad either.
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