Why would a special moves that allows for a crazy combo be banned? I would think that would be encouraged.
Such a thing isn't happening with reduced hitstun and increased knockback anyway.
Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 9: F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
- Start date
- Status
Why would a special moves that allows for a crazy combo be banned? I would think that would be encouraged.
Such a thing isn't happening with reduced hitstun and increased knockback anyway.
I'm not saying it's likely to happen, but if there is some guaranteed, easy to pull off combo that can 0% to KO (or at least really high percent) you, then yes, they will be banned because they are broken. If it basically means everyone has to use that character w/ that moveset or they will lose, then yes, they will be banned.
Meohsix
Member
Eh hem, May 5th
=D
Pic of the day. Some of the physical characteristics of Miis get carried over when you use them as Mii Fighters. The smaller ones become speed fighters and the bigger ones are more akin to power fighters.
=D
It would have to be 0 to 60%+ and be incredibly easy to do for it to be considered broken.
It's like how lucario has amazing combo potential in project M being able too get 30-60% (or even death if it ends in an EX side special) off of a good combo and noone seems to call it broken.
Geminosity
Member
Well, looks like my Mii will be one of the fastest characters ever then 
Once I'm done with my current game, I may very well take you up on that. Thankies!
We also have precedent for an actual infinite that is pretty easy to do and most of the time not banned. So it at least partially depends on if it would make the character actual broken relative to most of the rest of the cast.
I worry that the community has sort of a bias against things like customization playing into the fight. We'll see how it plays out.
True enough. That's a good comparison.
Karsticles
Member
Until Samus gets Hidden Missiles.
JediLink
Member
They problem with Miis is that they're inherently impossible to balance. For an ordinary character, if you know their strengths, you can also design their weaknesses, and fit them around a certain playstyle. A Mii, on the other hand, has 243 possible combinations. Some are going to be better than others. They may not necessarily broken, but they're going to be all over the place.
That's all I'm saying. I really don't think it will happen, but with so many variables (64 different move combinations and different weight clases for miis) it's impossible for them to balance test all of it. All it takes is for one creative smasher to use the right combination of custom moves on the right character and maybe----MAYBE someone figures out a combo that is a guaranteed kill. I'm 95% sure it won't happen, but you never know. IF, miraculously, that combination is discovered, custom moves will be banned.
I mean broken as in -- anyone who picks this character/moveset WILL win if they're competent.
Karsticles
Member
I am on board!Palutena gets astral vision and heavenly illusion with medusa as her partner
This is probably going to be the flow for competitive smash 4 as it stands:
Miis - may or may not be banned before character selection, I'm just going to wait until the 3DS version releases to decide, but honestly I'm leaning more towards banned, they seem way too versatile and could potentially require too much effort to set up (and despite how impressed I am with their implementation I still hate their inclusion but that's neither here nor there). You might have to customise all the mii stuff on a completely separate menu due to them having all those costumes and stuff.
Both players pick and lock in their character, they then do RPS, winner gets to decide whether they want first stage pick or first custom move pick.
You then move onto the custom move select which will probably be a part of the CSS after characters have been selected like this:
Then whoever got first move pick picks a neutral > other person picks neutral > first person picks side special > second person picks side special, and so on until all moves have been picked, then whoever got second pick gets to pick a stage first.
And then you carry on with your usual stuff after the first game of the loser picking a stage, winner choosing a character, loser choosing a character and then back to move select if necessary.
Miis - may or may not be banned before character selection, I'm just going to wait until the 3DS version releases to decide, but honestly I'm leaning more towards banned, they seem way too versatile and could potentially require too much effort to set up (and despite how impressed I am with their implementation I still hate their inclusion but that's neither here nor there). You might have to customise all the mii stuff on a completely separate menu due to them having all those costumes and stuff.
Both players pick and lock in their character, they then do RPS, winner gets to decide whether they want first stage pick or first custom move pick.
You then move onto the custom move select which will probably be a part of the CSS after characters have been selected like this:
Then whoever got first move pick picks a neutral > other person picks neutral > first person picks side special > second person picks side special, and so on until all moves have been picked, then whoever got second pick gets to pick a stage first.
And then you carry on with your usual stuff after the first game of the loser picking a stage, winner choosing a character, loser choosing a character and then back to move select if necessary.
Hypemaster
Member
Thanks!
balladofwindfishes
Member
Setup time is the only reason I could see custom moves being banned.
Either way, there's literally no reason to ban the entire Mii character. Tournaments can easily make 3 generic Miis of set weights and it'd be no different than any other character. I think the Wii U/3DS even ships with a variety of generic Miis.
Either way, there's literally no reason to ban the entire Mii character. Tournaments can easily make 3 generic Miis of set weights and it'd be no different than any other character. I think the Wii U/3DS even ships with a variety of generic Miis.
Idk, when it comes to bans, Smash pretty much falls into two categories. Something that should clearly be banned, and things that people want banned and come up with reasons for later. If the community wants to use them, they won't be banned. If they don't, they'll say it takes up too much time (even though we already to plenty of things that waste tourney time aka hand warm ups)).
PadWarrior
Member
I can see that happening sadly. I just can't shake that feeling.
Hand warm ups are before matches start. Between rounds, things tend to move pretty quickly. It's basically counter picking characters and stages.
If you need to back out to the main menu to change custom moves, that's something that would take up too much time between rounds, so they will be banned.
I doubt it, but even if it happens it won't hurt that bad since we'll already have the 3DS version.
Yeah ultimately this is how I feel, cant freaking wait for Smash lite to come out.
Geminosity
Member
wouldn't it be easier/quicker just to upload customs from the 3DS version? I got the impression that was going to be a feature :3
It's kind of a shame the amiibos don't offer the feature to store custom setups for actual play: it's almost their ideal use and yet for some odd reason Sakurai doesn't seem to have implemented it :/
PadWarrior
Member
Very true.
No because the moves you want a character to use will be different depending on the character you're facing and the stage you're playing on so you'll want to change them anyway.
I can't believe people call that a leak.
I think "rumor" is a way overstating it for some guy on GameFAQs.
It won't be delayed. The Wii U need's it's big holiday game and they need to launch amiibo with it at the same time. Iwata even said the Mario Kart 8 and Smash Bros were it's big games for the rest of 2014. You need to think of it in a business sense. If smash bros for Wii U get's delayed then Nintendo has nothing for Christmas thus few Wii U's will be bought.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I still wish language select will be in this game.
I have hopes, FEA has it.
I have hopes, FEA has it.
balladofwindfishes
Member
It's my opinion that Falco would be the perfect candidate of a secret character revealed casually before release like Marth, Toon Link, Lucario and Luigi. Really popular, iconic, and obviously returning, no reason not to show him. He probably isn't getting changed much either, move pool wise or design wise, so no reason to hold off.
I think that's why the "leak" was sort of believable.
I think that's why the "leak" was sort of believable.
Does it really make that much difference?
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I don't want to hear MODOKFox
Fair enough. I was just struggling to think of who it'd even affect.
While thinking about it, I found this and can see what you mean.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Falco is cut.
A bad voice acting is a bad voice acting regardless whether it's first or not. You don't see me praising MMPR or Pokemon Red Blue. Hell, his English Brawl voice was pretty fine.
I love that the announcer is the same English voice actor in the Japanese game.
A bad voice acting is a bad voice acting regardless whether it's first or not. You don't see me praising MMPR or Pokemon Red Blue. Hell, his English Brawl voice was pretty fine.
I love that the announcer is the same English voice actor in the Japanese game.
This is backwards thinking. You're basically saying that before playing a new game you want it to mold into the pre existing format. We should be flexible enough to change our formats for the game.
You're worried about taking too much time? It's the game that comes first. Choosing stages, changing controls (yes this happens between rounds sometimes (players even change out controllers for melee and brawl)), counter picking character, getting water, talking to coaches... all these things happen currently. If tournaments run long it's probably because the TOs aren't running them properly. Basic stuff includes starting one time, enforcing DQs for late people, setting the rules of the tourney appropriately for the amount of setups, and communicating well to the attendees. If you need more time, then you do what it takes to earn more time. That's it. You don't shy away from change because you can't step up and run a decent tournament.
Here's a few new things to consider. Being able to play smash on the Wii U and 3DS will free up space and allow for more setups using less outlets. You may not want to play a tournament match on a Wii u pad, but you can warm up on it or do free play. 3DS free play can exist away from crowded areas. If 50 people show up for a tournament with 2 Wii U setups, then you can have contingency rules that people who didn't bring any Wii U setups can play their matches on the 3DS. This flexibility will be great.
I also think the 3DS IR will be able to beam info to the Wii U game pad. You can do all of your set up in your pocket and then come prepared to the tournament. I also think Amiibos will help out in the same way.
Geminosity
Member
Bleh... I've never been into the whole counterpicking stuff. This is why I prefer blind matches :/
Wreck-It Ralph
Member
But that wouldn't really work since the 3DS has different stages.
It depends. The problem with stuff like Miis or custom moves in general is that they can switch between sets or even between rounds, so unlike just switching the basic rules when the game is turned on it stacks up over time.
Still, if other fighting games can have constant button checks, Smash might be able to have time for a player to make a custom character before a set.
I know a lot of players are leery about custom moves, but I'm hoping they're balanced enough that they can add a new variable to the game like assists in MvC or Skullgirls.
Huw_Dawson
Member
CCs (Devil Jin) are banned in Soul Calibur V. Miis are the same general thing. I cannot imagine they'll be legal...
Then again this is Smash.
Then again this is Smash.
friskykillface
Banned
"You can just play the 3DS version, same version"
What Nintendo will say and probably Nintendo fans to justify the delay when it happens
Lol no, I need dat HD and pro controller support B^)
True. But consider the options.
1) Try to have everyone play on the Wii U. Run the tourney late. People are upset and frustrated. People drop out due to time.
2) Prevent people from entering. Smaller tourney. Less exciting People who traveled for competition are disappointed.
3) Some people have to play on 3DS on other stages or Battle field and FD only (not that bad really). People get the message that they should RSVP or bring set ups. People still play smash and have fun and the best/final matches are still played on Wii U.
I'm not worried about balance. We are still living through Fox and Metaknight. This proves that the community puts up with seriously OP characters just because they wan to. Honestly, the Mii fighters will probably be Mid tier. What's my reasoning? Aren't most characters Mid Tier? Guess how many people play Mid tier characters tournament.... just a handful. I play Pit in Brawl and Kirby (I know.. low tier) in Melee. If my characters took 5x time to set up, the tournament would still go smoothly cause I'm the only one.
Also... complex games should expect complex bans. We don't live in a simple arcade/street fighter era anymore.
Hopefully customization is easy and quick. There are still tons of reasons why the community may choose to ban them. Taking too much time might be one of them. I'm not advocating for banning them at all. I'm just saying that it's a possibility, so don't shoot me for having the idea
Neoriceisgood
Member
Did smash 64 have conservation of momentum?
Hopefully customization is easy and quick. There are still tons of reasons why the community may choose to ban them. Taking too much time might be one of them. I'm not advocating for banning them at all. I'm just saying that it's a possibility, so don't shoot me for having the idea
*puts away Mii gunner*
Very true. Your hopes and fears are justified.
This is the ban reason I'm most afraid of... "because X high level player doesn't like it"
Beelzebufo
Banned
Banning Miis makes sense if only because Sakurai banned then himself haha
This has literally never happened.
I'm just worried because there are so many custom moves (Not just for Mii) and I get the feeling they're not gonna receive too much attention compared to the standard ones from the devs. Never know if we'll get one that's like the Mach Tornado and the Shuttle Loop had a baby that was blessed with the Holy Ghost of the Infinite Dimensional Cape glitch.
- Status