Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread XI: Where 90% correct equals 100% wrong
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
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Since Fox has his SF64 voice, if Wolf's back he'll have his SF64 voice too? He has to be back now, his old voice is so much better than his new one. Maybe his default costume will be more like SF64 too (with the regular eyepatch).
MrSaturn99
Member
But didn't you see that leak from the other day? He was a dictator during Brawl's development!
If fox is anything to go by, I never asked for this. I'll take the brawl or heck the jp voices.
Get on leaked palutena's level fakers.
If they're going to use the proper starfox voice and still use the corgi McCloud model, I don't see why they'd change wolf
True. I guess I'll just hope that it's an alternate costume if he gets back in.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Does this mean that Smash 4 is more rewarding to the competitive player than Brawl?
Who know.
HawthorneKitty
Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
You should watch either way.
Does this mean that Smash 4 is more rewarding to the competitive player than Brawl?
I've never said this game wasn't going to be more rewarding than brawl.
It's going to be that simply by virtue of the fact that it actually looks in line with the first two games unlike Brawl
But what if he is? Plot twist.
I don't want to watch hyrule warriors, bayonetta, or captain toad, because I don't want spoilers or puzzle solutions. I don't want to watch shovel knight because I already beat it. I'm buying those 3 games anyway, so I don't want more info on them!
Smash is just fun to watch.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
But he isn't/
Pop-O-Matic
Banned
He did call us a bunch of maniacs that one time...
WiiRevolution1
Member
Ugh I hope not. I know others want it, but patching a game to change gameplay really grinds on my nerves.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
The hell? Sakurai have fixed many complaints people had about smash already, are you gonna turn a blind eye to these? The reason all 4 smashes are so different to eachother is because Sakurai constantly makes changes, alot of address complaints from the previous title, and alot to add more options and features on to make it easier for everybody.
100% agreed.
If we are forced to have balance updates, I hope it's just once or twice at most, and accompanied by a retail release like UMVC or SFIV.
Let me dream.
It looks more promising, that's for sure.
Fix some of the grabs pls!
Why? If I knew Nintendo was willing to fix Smash my outlook for the game would be a lot more positive. I would be absolutely tickled if they even went a step further and released updated versions like Ultra Smash Bros. for Wii U Turbo because 1) we would be getting a new Smash more then once every five years and 2) when the entire game doesn't have to be rebuilt from scratch we can get some massive, Marvel vs. Capcom style rosters.
But aside from that, patching can help avoid some Metaknight levels of imbalance.
C.Olimar788
Member
I still don't get why the SSB team doesn't just focus on balancing 1v1 no items first. Any additional FFA or items or random elements is going to inherently add imbalances, and casual players really don't care for the most part. I mean, casual players still liked Brawl (generally speaking), and we all know how poorly balanced that game is. At the end of the day, casual players are still going to enjoy it because it's Smash Bros., but the competitive community asks for something more than that and, if it's delivered, will keep the game alive for years to come.
I mean, look at PM. Are there some FFA imbalances that come from it being balances for 1v1? Of course there are, just ask Ivysaur or Bowser! Is it still a lot of fun to play casual FFA? Absolutely, I would argue even moreso than Brawl because once it inevitably gets down to the 1v1 wire every player can feel like their skill is what matters most.
I mean, look at PM. Are there some FFA imbalances that come from it being balances for 1v1? Of course there are, just ask Ivysaur or Bowser! Is it still a lot of fun to play casual FFA? Absolutely, I would argue even moreso than Brawl because once it inevitably gets down to the 1v1 wire every player can feel like their skill is what matters most.
Come to think of it, Smash 4's already rumored to be adopting both balance/maintenance and character DLC right? Wasn't that the last big tangent we had in terms of leaks before the weekend?
Edit: I really will never get this fanbase's complete aversion to post release support sometimes.
Edit: I really will never get this fanbase's complete aversion to post release support sometimes.
They need to just make wolf's voice steve blum, so he can just be wolverine.
And then he can be like.
" I cant let you do that star fox! I'm the best at what I do....SWISS CHEEZE "
C'mon man, I put some actual effort and thought into my post
Balance patches are how modern day fighting games work nowadays and would be how they would have worked in the past if patching was a thing. It is IMPOSSIBLE to get character balance right on the first iteration of a fighting game. IMPOSSIBLE. I think we would all like that safety net to be there no?
MrSaturn99
Member
here's what I think of this conversation
They balance the game for all types of play.
Certain characters will suffer more than others, but that's a compromise that always has to be made. It doesn't have the luxury that Marvel or Street Fighter has. Those games are pretty straightforward as fighters.
Well, with Chrom not being in the game as a playable character the leak is much less certain.
And I don't get people who don't want post release support, either. I've seen some Smash fans that say they don't even really care about the multiplayer and claim they only play singleplayer. It blows my mind.
I don't know why, patching could have fixed some of brawls hit box and meta knight related issues. Sometimes things need a shake up, sometimes things need fixing. Adapt and all that.
I don't get the reasoning for balancing around FFA items instead of 1v1 and then just letting the luck and randomness that casual players love do their thing either honestly.
I mean will they really notice/care if one character is slightly better than the rest when items are on?
I mean will they really notice/care if one character is slightly better than the rest when items are on?
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
People, please private message me if y'all did added me. I lost track of people who added me. Thanks!
Solid Samus
Banned
What?
What?
whaaaaaahurrrrgfhghghggh
Some shit just doesn't make any sense no matter what angle I look at it from.
This is one of those things.
Welcome to the wacky world of fighters, bros, where developers don't have clairvoyance and know exactly how to hash out balance issues before the game ships.
Patches are a god damn boon. I literally can't accept any other opinion, it's like watching someone reject scientifically proven fact.
Nah man that isn't exclusive to Smash fans AT ALL. You hear that pretty frequently from the more casual audience. Not everyone likes fighting games for the same reason.
Is this a binary? Like, any small tweak to percentages or balance is still something of a gameplay change and is therefore a bad thing?
I don't really get that logic to be honest. Nobody's saying the game would drastically change in a post-release update, that'd be kinda weird, but would minor tweaks really set you off?
I don't think they balance completely around FFA. I'd imagine there are a stage of test.
But seeing how Meta Knight slip past them I could be wrong.
I think even if they balanced the game completely around 1 v 1, no items the balance would still be pretty off. I'm not confident that the team has the experience or using the best methods to balance a Smash game. I think Sakurai brings a lot to the Smash series and the games would lose its charm without him but he balanced Melee by himself and something like less than a dozen people balanced Brawl. With teams that small it would be hard to balance a standard fighting game without various game modes, items, and stages.
Ideally, they would be dragging builds to every monthly Smash tourney to get feedback like Capcom does. And aside from vanilla Sagat and AE Yun and Yang, Street Fighter 4 is a very well balanced series.
Exotoro
Member
here's what I think of this conversation
lol so random1!
Broken gameplay (gameplay the developers never intended) should always be patched! Random balance patches are a bit much, but if something is super broken, if some characters are never used, etc, then that needs to be fixed and addressed.
Jumping the gun and nerfing fox (like how quickly project M patches) seems like it's a bit premature. You need to wait a while until things are 100% broken or wayyyyyyyy underpowered and kinda adjust that a bit.
I wasn't refering to Gematsu even though it got the ball rolling with regards to talking about DLC. I was talking about those multiple SmashGAF members and Smashboards posters (one of whom knew stuff for Brawl IIRC) that mentioned that DLC was happening/in planning.
As for the post release stuff, I'd just like to know that if (God forbid) something happens that leads to a Metaknight (re: a combination of base system mechanics and a single or multiple character entities that abuse the absolute worst of the current game design), it can be addressed. Beyond that, I'm also of the opinion that Smash is one of Nintendo's few game series that can become its own "platform" limited only by how creative the team wants to be with its post launch content versus saving it for the next numbered entry.
DLC provides a chance to have things like new costume packs, music packs, stages, a few newcomers from games introduced in this generation or just newcomers in general versus waiting for Smash 5 to play catch up with Wii U/3DS era things. On top of making it so that the current Smash would cover more of the current era of Nintendo, this would also lessen the workload necessary for a Smash 5 by mitigating the need to create more assets to manipulate for that inevitable release since everything already exists to be reused with a few touch ups.
Why would anyone not want this?
Apparently yes
Your second scenario is exactly what I don't want (typical Capcom fighter stuff.) We already see some varying levels of anxiety over Project M's balance adjustments (Sonic, Ivysaur, Ike). I prefer one developed metagame and I really don't understand why that's not possible here. If people don't stick with the game a la Brawl it has more to do with the game's flaws itself more than anything, and after all of these years nobody seems to have any interest in a Melee readjustment. Melee is sort of like what I understand of MVC2 in that sense. Some huge stratification but it's accepted more or less, even if it's just a product of a time where the balance patches we're thinking of weren't a thing.
Now certainly I agree that glitches, bugs and massive balance disparities (on the side of characters being too good) should be worked on. But otherwise no, I don't want constant quasi-novelty. I mean, if the game isn't interesting enough without yearly balance readjustments (SSF4) I would find that alarming.
Besides, I thought rumor had it Smash 6 was already being worked on...? Since Nintendo was supposed to be exploring the next console.
edit: the only post-launch content I'm really interested in is all cosmetic or peripheral stuff - costumes, music, new stages perhaps (we may need some more for tournaments.) Specifically not characters
I will say though, I wouldn't be tickled with the idea of physical releases accompanying patches to the game design. The perception of "ugh, I have to buy nother disc" is etched into most of the audience (thanks Capcom) and the rest of the audience would be pissed to find out that their game isn't "complete or current" and they needed another purchase to keep up with the Joneses.
...the last Project M patch was for version 3.0. 3.01 and 3.02 were patches to make sure that the alt costumes didn't lag up in FFA environments. Care to explain to me what patches were "fast" or "premature"? What's more, the Fox nerf was on something that most people didn't even know was a thing until they came out and said it (Fox isn't COMPLETELY invincible on start up of a Shine/Reflector). Everything else is Melee Fox.
...the last Project M patch was for version 3.0. 3.01 and 3.02 were patches to make sure that the alt costumes didn't lag up in FFA environments. Care to explain to me what patches were "fast" or "premature"? What's more, the Fox nerf was on something that most people didn't even know was a thing until they came out and said it (Fox isn't COMPLETELY invincible on start up of a Shine/Reflector). Everything else is Melee Fox.
HawthorneKitty
Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
Maybe casual play on the Wii U.
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