Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread XI: Where 90% correct equals 100% wrong

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And the too big argument only started after Brawl's release didn't it? That was never an argument against him until they put him in as a boss where he should be massive and suddenly he can never be included because of his size.


I still think this game is the perfect opportunity to have him playable, all this teasing and buildup, a character people have wanted since seeing the melee intro for the first time, anything else is going to be disappointing.


ALSO SHADOWANALYSIS
 
JoeInky said:
And the too big argument only started after Brawl's release didn't it? That was never an argument against him until they put him in as a boss where he should be massive and suddenly he can never be included because of his size.
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Yeah that's it. People thought he'd fit (size wise) at first based on the Melee intro. At least the ones I knew did.
 
This is a little late, but I'm sure any difficulty involved with coding the Ice Climbers involves having four players using them at once.

What kind if specs might those circumstances have, and how could that impact the 3DS?

Edit: Saw the second break down - Nevermind!
 
Kjellson said:
I'm so happy I found this image.
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Haha, me too.
JoeInky said:
And the too big argument only started after Brawl's release didn't it? That was never an argument against him until they put him in as a boss where he should be massive and suddenly he can never be included because of his size.


I still think this game is the perfect opportunity to have him playable, all this teasing and buildup, a character people have wanted since seeing the melee intro for the first time, anything else is going to be disappointing.


ALSO SHADOWANALYSIS
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No, it was definitely already a meme in pre-Brawl hype as well. I wasn't really on the Internet for Melee hype, so idk about that.

Though regardless, Melee's intro has always shown that he would be fine. I don't know why people act like it's impossible.
 
Finale Fireworker said:
This is a little late, but I'm sure any difficulty involved with coding the Ice Climbers involves having four players using them at once.

What kind if specs might those circumstances have, and how could that impact the 3DS?
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If the Ice Climbers were removed, would it have to be because of technical limitations? Wolf being gone is kinda weird too. Also, did all of the "leaks" say Ice Climbers were cut, or only that one that called the clown car a Mario Kart?
 
Beelzebufo said:
If the Ice Climbers were removed, would it have to be because of technical limitations? Wolf being gone is kinda weird too. Also, did all of the "leaks" say Ice Climbers were cut, or only that one that called the clown car a Mario Kart?
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AHHHHHHH YOU'RE BACK!

I think we've mostly established that Ice climbers aren't really a technical limitation. Their removal would likely be a design-based one. That is to say, they're likely not removed.

I'll be ultra bummed if they are.
 
JoeInky said:
I still think this game is the perfect opportunity to have him playable, all this teasing and buildup, a character people have wanted since seeing the melee intro for the first time, anything else is going to be disappointing.
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Anyone who still genuinely believes that Ridley will be playable honestly deserves to be disappointed.
 
Kjellson said:
I'm so happy I found this image.
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Haha. Actually, I don't mind my avatar. It's like constantly reminder for me to remember that Waluig and Tingles' fans got their heart brokers for putting so much faith in those characters. Actually, I don't mind Tingle if he was a joke character but his chance is pretty much gone.
 
The Great Gonzales said:
guys he did it

he solved the problem that has plagued smashgaf for years

tumblr_n9jktjDcX81swll5zo1_500.jpg
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"Pic of the day! When Ridley joins the battle, all other characters experience a Poison Mushroom effect.

Other fighters (with helium voice): 'Leave it to me!'

On Pyrosphere and Spirit Train, Roidley and Alfonso double in size for every Ridley on the field."
 
emb said:
No, it was definitely already a meme in pre-Brawl hype as well. I wasn't really on the Internet for Melee hype, so idk about that.

Though regardless, Melee's intro has always shown that he would be fine. I don't know why people act like it's impossible.
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The Toobigots are irrational people, so utterly consumed by their hatred of Ridley that they'll cling to any absurd reason to keep the most deserving Nintendo character of all time off the roster.
/s
 
And so the cycle continues.

JoeInky said:
And the too big argument only started after Brawl's release didn't it? That was never an argument against him until they put him in as a boss where he should be massive and suddenly he can never be included because of his size.
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It started waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before that. My friend was a known pre-Brawl GameFAQs advocate for that.

ALSO SHADOWANALYSIS
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lol
 
Beelzebufo said:
If the Ice Climbers were removed, would it have to be because of technical limitations? Wolf being gone is kinda weird too. Also, did all of the "leaks" say Ice Climbers were cut, or only that one that called the clown car a Mario Kart?
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All leaks kept saying that Ice Climbers is one that got cut. There is like 2-4 leaks that said that Ice Climbers, Wolf and Lucas that got cut. I apologized if I'm mistaken since there are too many leaks happening at once and people kept slumped all into one.
 
Green Mamba said:
Anyone who still genuinely believes that Ridley will be playable honestly deserves to be disappointed.
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Well, that's mean :(
He's like the only other character I care about unless Daisy is in for some odd reason.


Also, the rumors spread about the ICs being removed is because it was said that they would be hard to implement in the 3DS version. Easy fodder for a fake leak.
 
Green Mamba said:
Anyone who still genuinely believes that Ridley will be playable honestly deserves to be disappointed.
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I think Sakurai has fucked up massively by not outright deconfirming Ridley by this point if this is the case.


It also goes directly against what he's stated in the past about playable characters being de/confirmed.


I mean the set up alone for playable Ridley is brilliant, but if this is all a setup to Ridley flying around the stage and occasionally attacking then it's probably the biggest case of blue balling the smash fanbase ever.
 
georly said:
AHHHHHHH YOU'RE BACK!

I think we've mostly established that Ice climbers aren't really a technical limitation. Their removal would likely be a design-based one. That is to say, they're likely not removed.

I'll be ultra bummed if they are.
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Yeah, I doubt they'd be removed, but if they were it wouldn't necessarily be due to limitations of the 3DS.

For what it's worth, in the same IGN interview where Sakurai said the Ice Climbers were challenging to program, the interviewer requests the Koopa Kids to be added lol
 
I know it's retreading the most tired Smash argument, but while I wouldn't mind seeing Ridley, especially for all those poor folks who saw him in the Melee intro at E3 and thought he was going to be a playable character, I just don't think it's going to happen. He's a boss.

Folks bring up "WHAT IF THE PLAYABLE RIDLEY IS THE CLASSIC ONE AND THE BOSS ON PYROSPHERE IS THE DIFFERENT OTHER M ONE" and like...no...aside from grasping at straws, it's the same thing as Dark Pit being a separate character, readability is hugely necessary in a game like Smash. You can't have a Bowser's Castle stage where Bowser shows up as a boss but he's covered in rainbows like in Mario 64 or something, it'd be weird and confusing.

I'd love to be wrong, but it's like...come on, man...don't do this to yourselves, guys...;_;
 
balladofwindfishes said:
Both are from d-tier Nintendo series with sparse releases
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490px-Ice_Climbers_SSBB.jpg


and neither are even the main character in the majority of those games.
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Lucina_SSB4.png


They were unlockable assist trophies in Brawl and that's why they haven't been shown yet.
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250px-ShadpwAT.jpg



Isaac has no chance. His greatest chance was right when GS hit, but no Smash Game was in development at that time, and that ship sailed ages ago.
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175px-PitSSBB.jpg


I'd even be surprised if they made another GS game at all, let alone made a character for Smash Bros.
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Sakurai pretty much lives on surprises. You should be well aware of this by now.
 
nerdbot said:
I know it's retreading the most tired Smash argument, but while I wouldn't mind seeing Ridley, especially for all those poor folks who saw him in the Melee intro at E3 and thought he was going to be a playable character, I just don't think it's going to happen. He's a boss.

Folks bring up "WHAT IF THE PLAYABLE RIDLEY IS THE CLASSIC ONE AND THE BOSS ON PYROSPHERE IS THE DIFFERENT OTHER M ONE" and like...no...aside from grasping at straws, it's the same thing as Dark Pit being a separate character, readability is hugely necessary in a game like Smash. You can't have a Bowser's Castle stage where Bowser shows up as a boss but he's covered in rainbows like in Mario 64 or something, it'd be weird and confusing.

I'd love to be wrong, but it's like...come on, man...don't do this to yourselves, guys...;_;
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To be fair, Other M Ridley is kind of a design departure. But even though they are separate Ridleys, I still don't expect it to happen sadly.
 
I thought Sakurai never explicitly mentioned Ice Climbers when mentioning characters they had trouble with in that IGN interview, and that was just the article writer speculating?
 
nerdbot said:
I'd love to be wrong, but it's like...come on, man...don't do this to yourselves, guys...;_;
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Sakurai says that he doesn't like ambiguous information that can leave people speculating and getting their hopes up only for it to be destroyed and leave them angry. He says nobody wins in this situation so I'm sure that means even he'd be upset that he did that to people.

Every mention of Ridley has not mentioned him by name and been very ambiguous.

Literally every character deconfirmation has been completely un-ambiguous and to the point.

A potd talking about scale not mattering when the most popular argument against him is '2big'

The SHADOWANALYSIS of Ridley shows that he's not too big to be a playable character and the shadow moves really erratic and weird for a boss.

And all of this has been going on for a year, for a guy who apparently doesn't like teasing and speculation with no pay off.

Also August direct, Metroid Anniversary in August.

It all points to a playable Ridley and if it doesn't, if it's pointing in a completely opposite direction, then Sakurai is a massive dick for doing all that to the fans, especially due to that first quote.


Other M Ridley is going to be playable, I'd take any bet against it.
 
Just from a tecnical standpoint, a FFA with 4 of the same character isn't one of the least taxing 4p FFA possible? Even with the semi-AIs (nanas).

The GC can handle ICs, theres no way the 3DS can't
 
Fandangox said:
I thought Sakurai never explicitly mentioned Ice Climbers when mentioning characters they had trouble with in that IGN interview, and that was just the article writer speculating?
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Really? Did they say that later? The article as a whole doesn't have a lot of direct quotes. I wouldn't take it seriously either way.
 
Unbounded said:
Sakurai pretty much lives on surprises. You should be well aware of this by now.
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This is just the way I feel, and I may be wrong, but Isaac reveal would really only appeal to a small subset of fans who liked those games. Same w/ shulk, but he's more current. Maybe it's because I'm older, and even though I played both GBA golden sun games, they didn't leave a huge impression on me.

Ice climbers and pit have the 'classic/retro' nintendo appeal that Isaac doesn't. Lucina is incredibly current and popular. I think isaac kinda gets lost in the mix. He's on the same level of Saki as far as character 'awareness.'

I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade or anything, I just, personally, am not getting my hopes up for him to be playable.
 
It could be that the "boss characters" part of the Direct was meant as a deconfirmation of Ridley, but they weren't ready to fully show him because he wasn't completed. Just throwing that out there, I would actually like if he was playable.
 
Ahnez said:
Just from a tecnical standpoint, a FFA with 4 of the same character isn't one of the least taxing 4p FFA possible? Even with the semi-AIs (nanas).

The GC can handle ICs, theres no way the 3DS can't
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Lemme play devil's advocate. How about a FFA with 4 ICs, High Pokeballs and Assist Trophies, on a stage containing a boss with 3D turned on.


I have nothing else to say, I was just stating a bunch of stuff.
 
JoeInky said:
Sakurai says that he doesn't like ambiguous information that can leave people speculating and getting their hopes up only for it to be destroyed and leave them angry. He says nobody wins in this situation so I'm sure that means even he'd be upset that he did that to people.

Every mention of Ridley has not mentioned him by name and been very ambiguous.

Literally every character deconfirmation has been completely un-ambiguous and to the point.

A potd talking about scale not mattering when the most popular argument against him is '2big'

The SHADOWANALYSIS of Ridley shows that he's not too big to be a playable character and the shadow moves really erratic and weird for a boss.

And all of this has been going on for a year, for a guy who apparently doesn't like teasing and speculation with no pay off.

Also August direct, Metroid Anniversary in August.

It all points to a playable Ridley and if it doesn't, if it's pointing in a completely opposite direction, then Sakurai is a massive dick for doing all that to the fans, especially due to that first quote.


Other M Ridley is going to be playable, I'd take any bet against it.
Click to expand...

As many have probably suggested, all of this would work with a playable boss mode Ridley as a unique Wii U gamepad feature. Shadow movement being weird doesn't matter if the player, not AI, is controlling Ridley.
 
Beelzebufo said:
Really? Did they say that later? The article as a whole doesn't have a lot of direct quotes. I wouldn't take it seriously either way.
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I am trying to find the article, but I remember that part was not in quotes, and the way it was worded gave me the impression that it was just the writer speculating.
 
Beelzebufo said:
If the Ice Climbers were removed, would it have to be because of technical limitations? Wolf being gone is kinda weird too. Also, did all of the "leaks" say Ice Climbers were cut, or only that one that called the clown car a Mario Kart?
Click to expand...

Seems unlikely that they would be removed for "technical limitations". The game can obviously handle 4 rosalina+lumas on screen at once, I don't think it's a huge jump to assume it could deal with 4 ice climber pairs too.
 
Well, we're moving on from I heard it from a friend to reposting info from a supposed Nintendo retail rep. This post is no way an admission of anything. Take it for what you will.

q06OB9Q.png
 
IGN said:
On the topic of the roster, Sakurai noted that the 3DS version of the game, with its hardware’s technical limitations, would likely keep the volume of the roster in check, though no characters had been cut so far, and any determination to that effect is a ways away. Which characters ultimately are included will be the result of careful consideration, ranging from which fighters have unique characteristics, equally representing franchises and how signature traits carry over well from previous games like Brawl. Sakurai did tell me that “multiple character” combatants like the Ice Climbers were proving a technical challenge on the 3DS.
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Sooooooooooooooooo... maybe?
 
georly said:
This is just the way I feel, and I may be wrong, but Isaac reveal would really only appeal to a small subset of fans who liked those games. Same w/ shulk, but he's more current. Maybe it's because I'm older, and even though I played both GBA golden sun games, they didn't leave a huge impression on me.

Ice climbers and pit have the 'classic/retro' nintendo appeal that Isaac doesn't. Lucina is incredibly current and popular. I think isaac kinda gets lost in the mix. He's on the same level of Saki as far as character 'awareness.'

I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade or anything, I just, personally, am not getting my hopes up for him to be playable.
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See, I would normally agree with you, except the mere fact that Issac and Ray Mk II actually became assist trophies in the first place. Them being assist trophies previously means that they had a chance as far as Sakurai was concerned. As such, I would expect that they were all definitely considered when deciding which characters to have playable.

Does it mean they're guaranteed to make it in? No, not really.

Does it mean that they have an inherent edge over most other characters? Hell yeah it does.
 
Tripon said:
Well, we're moving on from I heard it from a friend to reposting info from a supposed Nintendo retail rep. This post is no way an admission of anything. Take it for what you will.

q06OB9Q.png
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If real (lol) it seems too early either way to really discern the tiers.

Though if Bowser somehow manages to stay on top after the retail release that would be glorious.
 
Berordn said:
Sakurai's never actually said he's too big, it's always been a fanbase argument. The only think he's actually said about Ridley is that he'd have to be a bit slow.
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A lesson of history. If words go around for long time, people start to believe them. It is still strange, that he though, that he would be too slow. If he really gets in, i actually could see him as an mirror to Little Mac. A character, who is great in the air, but sucks on the ground.
 
SmithnCo said:
It could be that the "boss characters" part of the Direct was meant as a deconfirmation of Ridley, but they weren't ready to fully show him because he wasn't completed. Just throwing that out there, I would actually like if he was playable.
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If that were the case, there would have been a potd that fully deconfirmed him rather than continuing to leaving it ambiguous still, especially considering the speculation started rising again only a few weeks after that direct.

Again, even if that was meant to be a confirmation, it completely goes against every other character deconfirmation so far.

Blizzard said:
As many have probably suggested, all of this would work with a playable boss mode Ridley as a unique Wii U gamepad feature. Shadow movement being weird doesn't matter if the player, not AI, is controlling Ridley.
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Sakurai must know by now that Ridley has been the fan favourite for almost 3 games in a row, and I think he'd be absolutely stupid to think that that is what people have wanted out of Ridley for all these years.
 
Tripon said:
Well, we're moving on from I heard it from a friend to reposting info from a supposed Nintendo retail rep. This post is no way an admission of anything. Take it for what you will.

q06OB9Q.png
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Even if this legitimately came from an NoA employee who had hours of time with the game (which itself is doubtful), I still don't think they'd actually have an accurate assessment of what the tiers are when the game comes out, a meta develops, and the full roster is available.
 
Tripon said:
Well, we're moving on from I heard it from a friend to reposting info from a supposed Nintendo retail rep. This post is no way an admission of anything. Take it for what you will.

q06OB9Q.png
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Based of a demo? Too early for me. And no mario is weird cause there have been reports of him being good
 
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