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[MHWilliams]

Bruh, this shows was like right behind Arrow for being the best Arrowverse show. Then the crossover happened and since then it's been terrible for lack of a better term

Correct.

It started the season here:

Arrow>Supergirl>Legends>>>>Flash

But is currently here:

Arrow > Legends >>> Flash >> Supergirl

Arrow has a great ensemble cast, skipped the easy drama, and has a solid threatening villain.

Legends has a great ensemble cast, has realized that taking itself seriously isn't the way to go, and has three (fourish) great villains.

Flash needs to figure out spots for its whole cast this season (at times, Joe, Caitlyn, Julian, and Wells feels extraneous), and it lacks a great villain, but makes up for it being the most ambitious of the shows from a comic perspective.

Supergirl's supporting cast has gotten firmed up, but CatCo sticks out like a sore thumb. The alien focus, especially the bar, has given the show a great Buffy feel, but they need to do more with it. And Supergirl simply lacks a consistent villain. Presumably that's going to be Momma Luthor, who was great in the last episode she appeared in, but that's not being felt right now. Like Flash, they need an ever-present foe to spar with. It's worth noting that prior to the crossover, this was Momma Luthor, who then went away for the underwhelming Martian plot.

 

[LotusHD]

The alien bar is so hilarious to me due to how that suddenly became their new hangout spot

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

You could have just simply typed Wild Dog>>everyone on Supergirl and saved yourself some time.

I have said in multiple threads Wild Dog is the most enjoyable CWverse character atm for me.
Dude is absolute bottom of the barrel but Arrow dun good.

 

[morningbus]

I've been ruminating on the Arrowverse lately, specifically trying to figure out how we've come to Arrow and Legends being on the top of the pile and I think I've figured out why this back half of Supergirl feels like it's missing something.

I mean, it's missing a lot. Like a villain with a plan or a larger threat that needs overcoming. But what I think it's missing most is a perspective. These most recent episodes, even Mister Myxlplyx, could be done on the Flash with minor alterations. We should be seeing stories that deal more directly with what make the character unique: Kara as an immigrant or as a woman in America. This extends to her supporting cast, too: Jimmy Olsen lacks a perspective, so much so that his origin story is about his Father's camera being destroyed. But in this universe he's a black man who has been friends with vigilante crime fighters for years. There's absolutely a compelling story there, but he can't even rise up to the muster of Wild Dog, a character on Arrow that has practically been created whole cloth this season.

The other shows are working better because they are at least doing interesting things that can't easily be retrofitted to the other shows. Arrow couldn't do the Gorilla City episode we just had on Flash. The Flash couldn't do the slavery episode of Legends. These shows, even Flash, at least have a view into the universe that feels consistent and allows for better stories that leverage character traits and a sense of history.

Even Supergirl was doing better at the beginning because they had story beats that felt specific to show, like Kara's relationship to her cousin in the first two episodes and the next few episodes looking at the alien population through various lenses.

 

[T Dollarz]

As weak as Supergirl has been lately, I feel like its problems can easily be fixed and get back on track.

Flash on the other hand I feel like is in a lot more trouble, because it has written itself into some really tough corners these past two seasons.

I'll say Arrow > Legends >> Supergirl >> Flash

 

[WedgeX]

Correct.

It started the season here:


But is currently here:


Arrow has a great ensemble cast, skipped the easy drama, and has a solid threatening villain.

Legends has a great ensemble cast, has realized that taking itself seriously isn't the way to go, and has three (fourish) great villains.

Flash needs to figure out spots for its whole cast this season (at times, Joe, Caitlyn, Julian, and Wells feels extraneous), and it lacks a great villain, but makes up for it being the most ambitious of the shows from a comic perspective.

Supergirl's supporting cast has gotten firmed up, but CatCo sticks out like a sore thumb. The alien focus, especially the bar, has given the show a great Buffy feel, but they need to do more with it. And Supergirl simply lacks a consistent villain. Presumably that's going to be Momma Luthor, who was great in the last episode she appeared in, but that's not being felt right now. Like Flash, they need an ever-present foe to spar with. It's worth noting that prior to the crossover, this was Momma Luthor, who then went away for the underwhelming Martian plot.

I think this has been by far Supergirl's biggest strength. The welcoming of aliens v. genocide has been a needed weight both in the White Martian and Cadmus storylines. Choosing one or the other for the primary big bad would be great with another in the background for future seasons. Instead both are lumped in and they feel more villain of the week rather than primary Big Bads. Which makes the actual villain of the weeks feel even weaker. I feel like the show is trying to find a landing spot for Kara between the DEO, CatCo, and her personal life but...to its detriment. And they are trying to focus each episode on all aspects of her life at once. Sure, there will be struggles. But she's an inheritor to Mary Tyler Moore and can do this shit on her own! Which also makes each and every suitor seem needless with their potential drama. There could be a really strong point for feminist critiques of the types of partners that shows meld their characters with v. what strong women actually look for but the show has not been so ambitious yet.

 

[LionPride]

As weak as Supergirl has been lately, I feel like its problems can easily be fixed and get back on track.

Flash on the other hand I feel like is in a lot more trouble, because it has written itself into some really tough corners these past two seasons.

I'll say Arrow > Legends >> Supergirl >> Flash

Flash has the best cast acting wise and second best character wise. I care about everyone there. I don't give a damn about anyone but Kara and that's because Melissa Benoist is great

 

[Obliterator]

They only spent a couple episodes doing will they/won't they in earnest. He pretended to be dating Eve for the blink of an eye before the truth was revealed and they got together. I can't call it dragged out when the progression has been steady week to week with Mon-El slowly proving her wrong about him.

Training and mentoring Mon-El has shown her transition from the Kara of season 1 that wasn't sure about herself and her powers to the Kara of season 2 that is more settled into her role as Supergirl. Her prejudice toward him and Lena being melted away has also been a season long theme that may turn out to be crucial if Lena does turn into a villain. I do think they need to solidify him as a real partner for Supergirl rather soon and not have him be the guy that shows up and gets punched into a heap for lack of powers and skill, but he's not as useless as James who really does serve no purpose now.

You say all of this as if we've actually gotten well written and meaningful scenes of Kara training Mon-El and him showing all this growth.

You can boil the entirety of Mon-El's "training" down to probably less than 15 minutes of the entire season so far. He has no plot that actually revolves around himself so far, and basically has been written to only exist so that Kara has some sort of love interest. The show runners and writers have done an awful job of giving him a purpose of his own.

Now that all may change and we get some great story with him and he becomes a much more compelling character, but as of now he's just a charming / charismatic dude who doesn't actually do anything. Like someone else mentioned he probably would have worked much better if they waited till the mid season finale to introduce him

 

[ZeroX03]

Why is Kara smooching the comic relief

You don't smooch the joke telling guy

Maggie and Alex scenes have been basically misunderstanding, upset feelings, deep talk, romantic reconciliation for like fifteen episodes in a row

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

+ Mr Mxy was always my least favorite Superman character, but I actually enjoyed this new take. I thought the ep was more fun that I had expected. And being a Legion of SH fan, I was pretty excited to meet somebody new from Dawnstar's planet, although I don't recall them having those alien faces from the comics - they were ancestors of Native Americans, I thought.

- I wish Maggie would move away. I flip past the Maggie and Alex dialogue scenes now, I don't care about them, there are too many scenes and especially this ep, they are so uninteresting.
- Don't care about Mon-El & Kara's relationship either, but I do like Mon-El as his more self-centered clueless womanizing self. Is CW changing the character? Or was this for the benefit of the mandatory lovey-dovey Valentines ep?
- Overall, I think CW is ruining this show, just like they are ruining the once-awesome Flash. Say what you will about season 1, when Supergirl was on CBS it stood out as different from the CW shows. Now it is ... something else, something more boring, despite the 'full DC universe' approach which I do appreciate. I have to admit, I miss the scenes at Catco.

Ship pandering and exploiting is much easier creatively and on the budget and the CW is totally cool with it.

 

[Jorok Goldblade]

- I wish Maggie would move away. I flip past the Maggie and Alex dialogue scenes now, I don't care about them, there are too many scenes and especially this ep, they are so uninteresting.

The problem with Maggie is that she's segregated from the main plot most of the time. She gets Sanvers scenes, but that's it, and since Alex isn't the main character, they feel like another show tacked onto this one. The way to fix this is to have Maggie play a bigger role in Kara's story. An easy way to do this is to have Maggie be Kara's law enforcement contact for non-alien supercriminals, since the DEO's jurisdiction is supposed to be alien matters.

James and M'Gann have a similar problem. They get side stories, and occasionally they get an episode here and there, but they're not a consistent part of the main arc of the series - Kara's journey.

Right now the breakdown is -

MAIN CHARACTER -
Kara

SUPPORTING CAST -
Alex
Winn
J'onn
Mon-El

TERTIARY CAST -
Maggie
James
M'Gann (formerly)

RECURRING GUEST -
Snapper
Lena

The "tertiary tier" is the danger zone - they eat up a lot of screen time, but don't play a pivotal role in the overall story. It's the place where the writers need to find a way for the characters to either step up or step aside. Iris and Thea spent a lot of time in this area on Flash and Arrow until they stepped up.

 

[Shaanyboi]

So I've mostly enjoyed the hell out of this season. Mon-El has been especially entertaining since the comeback episode. I've been enjoying James and Wynn having their little superhero team thing. I think the Miss Martian stuff has been kinda disappointing, but rarely an outright drag. The Alex stuff has been pretty strong and I'm glad that character atleast has some actual material.

But this episode really bothered me. I don't mind the idea behind it, but this was their opportunity to really make fun of themselves. Myxzptlk should have been the old balding guy who reformed himself into this guy who he perceives as "the ideal Kara love interest." Maybe some vague references that this is in-fact a TV show and he's just some fanboy forcing himself into the story. Mock the Mon-El storyline as "not really working." I know this is more of a Bat-Mite thing, but hell, this was an opportunity for some silly reflection and it felt like a bit of a waste. Especially considering how much of it is kinda divorced from Kara's own perspective.

 

[jb1234]

The problem with Maggie is that she's segregated from the main plot most of the time. She gets Sanvers scenes, but that's it, and since Alex isn't the main character, they feel like another show tacked onto this one. The way to fix this is to have Maggie play a bigger role in Kara's story. An easy way to do this is to have Maggie be Kara's law enforcement contact for non-alien supercriminals, since the DEO's jurisdiction is supposed to be alien matters.

Maggie is basically defined by her relationship to Alex. That's all she's there for. It makes her very, very boring. Alex at least has relationships to other members of the main cast that help flesh her out, even if she's mostly been swallowed up by Sanvers in the last several weeks.

(James doesn't have a great deal to do, other than participate in the worst plotline of the season. They should pair him up with Maggie for a while and see what happens. I don't mean romantically.)

 

[LotusHD]

As weak as Supergirl has been lately, I feel like its problems can easily be fixed and get back on track.

Flash on the other hand I feel like is in a lot more trouble, because it has written itself into some really tough corners these past two seasons.

I'll say Arrow > Legends >> Supergirl >> Flash

Bruh, we just went to Gorilla City this week on Flash, it is not worse than Supergirl by any means.

 

[Septimus Prime]

I don't think I like that 5D imps can be crushed. Like what?

 

[Emarv]

I don't need this show to be gritty or anything, but it could definitely use some threats or stakes. Everything just feels by-the-numbers lately. Just falling back on typical CW tropes while they wait for the Mon-El is Prince whatever reveal. I really hope after the musical episode they ramp the final episodes up hard.

 

[caliph95]

I don't think I like that 5D imps can be crushed. Like what?

How did they even capture them, aren't imps basically god

 

[Xenoboy]

I was actually thinking, what is an 4th dimensional being?

 

[Smoolio]

I think we'd be well served by an episode where Kara and Lena spend time together outside of her office. Their relationship needs a lot of developing if they plan on having Lena turn into an antagonist later (which seems likely). I don't think sexism plays into it personally, but this show needs a long term villain that Kara is emotionally invested in now that her aunt and uncle are gone. There aren't many characters on the show that could fill the role.

Still hoping for Mon-el as the big bad. Would be subversively awesome.

 

[caliph95]

I was actually thinking, what is an 4th dimensional being?

Don't but there are Sixth Dimensional beings

 

[ZeroX03]

Mon El the bad guy? That's ridiculous. Chris Wood couldn't pull off a big bad villain.

 

[Joni]

Mon El the bad guy? That's ridiculous. Chris Wood couldn't pull off a big bad villain.

 

[Smoolio]

Mon El the bad guy? That's ridiculous. Chris Wood couldn't pull off a big bad villain.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

I hate that I complain so much about this show because I seriously don't know how to fix it while other shows it is just adjustments here and there.

Remove the DEO? What happens to Manhunter?
Remove James?
Wynn?

More stuff for Maggie to do, at the cost of what?
What about Alex and Lena?

Mon-El - get rid of him or make him a villain.

Just way too much going on.



I mean my obvious and ridiculous wish would be to merge National City back into Metropolis,
Lex is the big bad of S3,
Superman or Clark appears in 1/3rd of the season.(but going into current Superdad plot)
S4 is Death of Superman midseason. Lex and Doomsday remain the big bad for Kara.
Supergirl is out of the DEO back at CatCo full time, which puts her in direct competition with Lois and Clark at the Daily Planet. potentially making her job plot fun.
DEO is reserved for major near crossover level stuff

Spoiler

Or Batwoman gets decent guest appearances and interaction with Maggie. lol

Would never happen though.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

I don't think I like that 5D imps can be crushed. Like what?

I think he was lying and felt threatened by another rival, and in typical Mon-El fashion thought bragging about his (or his people's) strength might impress Kara.

Also, I know why it's that way in the comics but is there a reason why Kara hasn't brought up the fact that he has the same family name as herself (yes, I know she's Kara Zor-El, but it's still the House of El) and Superman?

 

[SomethingInTheSea]

I hate that I complain so much about this show because I seriously don't know how to fix it while other shows it is just adjustments here and there.

Remove the DEO? What happens to Manhunter?
Remove James?
Wynn?

More stuff for Maggie to do, at the cost of what?
What about Alex and Lena?

Mon-El - get rid of him or make him a villain.

Just way too much going on.

To be honest, I don't think that either James or Winn work as characters if they're not mainly based at CatCo, when they're at the DEO all the time it just makes them feel one dimensional and out of place.
I think we need a lot less DEO and a lot more CatCo or somewhere else where people can interact off duty and villains can arise without all having to be linked in someway. And the alien bar doesn't count as anything that happens there ties into the DEO in some way.

 

[Joni]

Why would you remove the DEO? Have Maggie join the DEO. Have some mystery cases running over multiple episodes where Maggie and Alex have to investigate something, sometimes leading to someone that Supergirl needs to fight, sometimes leading to allies or an alien that needs saving from humans. Wynn meanwhile acts as the support for Supergirl in her regular saving tasks. With preferably a villain in the background, someone like Zoom that dumps new villains or that rips a fabric through the earths causing villains to shift from one earth to another. James is even easier. Have Lucy come back for a couple of episodes, and then they leave together to Metropolis.

 

[Smoolio]

Give the DEO a stargate, go cosmic. Setup Darkseid.

For Lena/Alex/Maggie, make them Meta/Power Armor/Green Lantern (interchangeable on this point)

4 Women saving the universe.

 

[caliph95]

Just erase the Guardian storyline and link the martian storyline with the aliens otherwise don't bother. You might as well remove James he contributes nothing and anything he could add can be replaced by occasional appearance of Snapper in catco. Also agree make Maggie part of deo or a liason.

 

[LionPride]

So Arrowverse fans must have hella people who are just unimaginitive and think killing people or writing them off will solve everything right?

 

[T Dollarz]

I care about the characters on Supergirl more than The Flash at this point is what I'm saying.

Edit: actually, my real problem might be finding the character of Kara vastly more likeable and relatable than Barry right now.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

So Arrowverse fans must have hella people who are just unimaginitive and think killing people or writing them off will solve everything right?

Problem is the show is so crowded with characters who get so little to do,
If you start to spend legitimate time on one of them certain characters might as well have been written off with how little screentime they will get.

 

[LotusHD]

I care about the characters on Supergirl more than The Flash at this point is what I'm saying.

Really? Hell, Julian just got here and I already like him more than everyone on this show barring Kara and maybe J'onn.

 

[LotusHD]

So Arrowverse fans must have hella people who are just unimaginitive and think killing people or writing them off will solve everything right?

Usually I'd agree with you, but I agree that it seems trickier with Supergirl. At the very least, absorb Maggie into the DEO and make them move past this whole being defined primarily through their relationships with one another. Better writing would fix Winn and Mon-El, plus Winn is our tech guy anyways, so as long as he doesn't have a dumb crush on Kara again, he's alright enough.

I genuinely don't know what to do with James though.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

Really? Hell, Julian just got here and I already like him more than everyone on this show barring Kara and maybe J'onn.

I like Julian the same,
I like Wild Dog more than everyone here including Kara and J'onn nearly combined at the moment.

Edit: Besides Lena actually.

 

[SomethingInTheSea]

Why would you remove the DEO? Have Maggie join the DEO. Have some mystery cases running over multiple episodes where Maggie and Alex have to investigate something, sometimes leading to someone that Supergirl needs to fight, sometimes leading to allies or an alien that needs saving from humans. Wynn meanwhile acts as the support for Supergirl in her regular saving tasks. With preferably a villain in the background, someone like Zoom that dumps new villains or that rips a fabric through the earths causing villains to shift from one earth to another. James is even easier. Have Lucy come back for a couple of episodes, and then they leave together to Metropolis.

I wouldn't remove it entirely but the problem with every episode starting out there is that it means no threat can arise that doesn't have to run through it in some way, and they're already having to come up with ridiculous reasons why the whole team can't fight specific villains. It also massively reduces the opportunity for interesting villains as she doesn't really go anywhere anymore without being sent by the DEO unlike season one where an episode would follow naturally out of some CatCo article or event.

The show needs to be primarily about Supergirl, not have a teamup every single episode. Have the DEO be busy with other things sometimes and don't have her go running to them every episode as it slows everything down and squeezes out character development in locations that'd actually make sense, instead we're reduced to conversations whilst wandering the halls.

I think part of why the DEO feels so stifling at the moment is that there's nothing driving the story forward right now so it feels like every crisis is some internal thing and not related to the rest of the city at all. Maybe the bar bombing could have led to some wider crisis in the city that provided this, but the writers forgot about it next episode and what should have been the hallowed site of an alien massacre was the place of a throw away joke about being short staffed...

 

[Joni]

So Arrowverse fans must have hella people who are just unimaginitive and think killing people or writing them off will solve everything right?

We watch too much CW. They specialize in it.

 

[Septimus Prime]

I could do without the alien bar. I imagine the restaurant/bar that that used to frequent in season 1 is probably not available anymore, but they could still be doing scenes at Catco instead.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

Why would you remove the DEO?

Its just too much and despite it's scope doesn't do anything outside of National City.
Only 2 characters are relevant to the DEO anyway and one is basically just on lesbian sister duty atm.

Its like if Mayor Oliver and crew had to hang around working for ARGUS(every episode) in addition to everything else.
Oh and Verdant is still up and running.

 

[The Hobo]

The DEO worked better in the background last season, with CatCo being the main focus of Kara's time when she wasn't Supergirl. As it is now, she feels more like a full-time DEO employee, which means she's spending more time as Kara Danvers/Supergirl and not enough as Kara Danvers/Reporter.

 

[Jorok Goldblade]

Kevin Smith is back on set:

https://twitter.com/ThatKevinSmith/status/834936831053455362

I asked them to take me someplace cool - so they brought me to her cousin's house...

 

[Grizzlyjin]

Kevin Smith is back on set:

https://twitter.com/ThatKevinSmith/status/834936831053455362

It looks like he pissed his jorts Haha

 

[Jorok Goldblade]

It looks like he pissed his jorts Haha

That's a bladder spasm.

 

[carlsojo]

Wynn's new alien girlfriend looks like a vampire from Buffy.

 

[Jorok Goldblade]

Wynn's new alien girlfriend looks like a vampire from Buffy.

Or a Bajoran.

 

[iosefe]

Wynn's new alien girlfriend looks like a vampire from Buffy.

oh my go, i knew it lookd faniliar

 

[Makonero]

It looks like he pissed his jorts Haha

just like batman!

 

[Darth Pinche]

oh my go, i knew it lookd faniliar

Yes,this was bugging me so much. Now I know why.

 

[Joni]

https://tvline.com/2017/02/25/supergirl-four-way-dctv-crossover-arrow-flash-legends-cw/
We might be getting a real four way crossover next year.

 

[Bluth54]

https://tvline.com/2017/02/25/supergirl-four-way-dctv-crossover-arrow-flash-legends-cw/
We might be getting a real four way crossover next year.

Sounds great.
It would be amazing if Superman could be part of the crossover too but I doubt that will happen.