Support NeoGAF

[DarkHeartedKill]

The Colt didn't work on Lucifer, so probably won't work on his kid either.

That's what I figured, plus he is likely much more powerful than an Archangel(Jessie who was the Demonborn was said to be able to wipe out the Host of Heaven so I'd assume a Nephilim born of an Archangel would be mega powerful) Question is though, would he be considered part of "creation"? maybe I'm just getting into semantics but I just wannt know who can't be killed by the colt already...

edit: I love the freakout and the whole "I'ma boycott Supernatural if cas is dead!!!!" going on, on twitter still. It's like a character can't die? What's the point of caring for a character if they just keep getting brought back to life or can never, ever die? Imagine The Walking Dead or Game of Thrones where no character dies, or somehow survive dying constantly. It gets a little boring.

Plus most of them are the ones that ship Cas & Dean, and if they leave the famdom I won't miss em tbh lol.

I understand that Cas was awesome, but I rather him die than have him be ruined any further, they didn't know what to do with him for the longest time, and only now did he serve a meaningful purpose(being the guardian of the Nephilim and letting us know the world he saw). I don't like how he died though, going in the portal to futility stab Lucifer? Kinda a lame way to go. Crowley went off on a high note though, poor Crowley

 

[Septimus Prime]

I'm *reaaaaally* hoping they'll bring back Crowley and Cas, but in a way that isn't super contrived and have good stuff for them to do next season.

I hope they stay dead, but maybe they bring in the alt-world versions, who should be pre-nerf. So, like, an actually evil Crowley and a powerful Castiel who gives little fucks about humanity.

The have a clean slate to make these characters more than plot-convenient buddies for Sam and Dean.

I wonder can Nephilim be killed by the colt?

I know they kept hyping how powerful this kid would be, but Nephilim should be weaker than angels because they are half human, right? That's at least how it works in Devil May Cry, as well as in earlier seasons of this very show, where the Nephilim we've seen have been weaker than angels.

This one being Lucifer's son should set him above everyone else, but I'd imagine he's still weaker than his dad and could probably be defeated.

Of course, as I mentioned earlier, there's also that antichrist kid, where he's half human and half demon but way the hell more powerful than even angels.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Nephilim (at least in Supernatural) are more powerful than angels because they have both a human soul and angel grace.

 

[The Silver]

So clearly this is the time to finally bring back Jesse, put in a loophole that since Jack is Lucy's son he "counts" and so Jesse has his full power. I'm still surprised they didn't finally get rid of the kid by throwing him against Amara.

 

[ronaldthump]

good finale.

can't believe they killed off both crowley and castiel!!

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

I don't like how he died though, going in the portal to futility stab Lucifer? Kinda a lame way to go.

It was really odd. It goes in to attack Lucifer, for what reason? Then comes back out but somehow didn't spot Lucifer right behind him? Weird.

 

[riotous]

Your other points are fine but this one they've had for seasons (since the fifth). It's where the holy oil is stored, and I think it's in their trunk.

That doesn't really make the scene any less hokey to me; it's about how they just had gone and collected all these ingredients.. an did so yet still had to explain it all to Sam on the spot behind the rock.. and how did Crowley even know the spell for closing a rift, a concept no one has ever mentioned on the show? And in the previous convo Crowley talked about closing the gates of hell, nobody at that point knew about the "rift" thing. Lucifer didn't seem to even know what it was.. yet Crowley knows a spell to close it?

The whole setup was just sort of random; and what is the point even? The nephelem created the rift by just being ready to be born. Why are we to think there won't be more rifts?

Why was nobody worried about all these crazy demons and angels coming through the rift? Why was UA Bobby so casual about it and had no interested in peaking into the other side? It was just sort of there for Dean/Sam/Cass to use without anyone else seemingly caring?

It was just all so sloppy to me. I don't usually nit pick this show either.. it was just so sloppy I couldn't help but notice every little off thing.

And did I miss something; why does everyone try to stab Lucifer with an angel blade if he is apparently immune to them? Don't they need an arch angel sword?

 

[riotous]

And just to jump off the negative train; as far as people coming back.

- I think it's totally possible Rowena played a trick on Lucifer; either that or the fact that he took a lock of her hair, will somehow be used to bring her back.
- I think that the fact Crowley sacrificed himself might play into him coming back somehow; he's been doing "good" things for a while now, and that final act might somehow cause him to come back to the world
- The nephelem gave Cass his super grace powers back, and clearly has a connection to him.. so I think Cass will be brought back by the nephelem, maybe another "bad Cass" situation

Sorry I'm misspelling nephelem lol.

 

[Not Spaceghost]

So I finally watched the two parter

Wow the madmen actually fucking did it. Next season might be the cleanest start we get for this show.

Lucifer and Mary are effectively gone, mary going away I called multiple times throughout this season so I'm glad I was right...at least for now.
Crowley is dead
Cas is dead

But honestly what a disappointing season lmao.

I'll say that one thing is for sure, jared and jensen really acted their heart out during this finale. Everything about the bunker in part 1 was fuckin gold, and dean reaching out to mary in her head was great.

The problems with this finale were evident in the fact that the BMoL story line was essentially just dropped lmao. Like straight up they just took that story line, wrapped it up asap, had that voice in the computer in case they ever want to come back to it one day (because fuck conclusions and tying up loose ends right? that's for competent writers like kripke). The fact that when dean got woken up from the psy-dream the first-episode-sam-torturing-british-chick (legitimately forgot her name) they were hauling around is dead because I guess she probably didn't want to be involved with season 13 despite the fact that she would have been a really fun character to have on the main squad.

Then when that got wrapped up the writers had to deal with the other story line, the mess of a lucifer-is-back-and-is-having-a-son story line. So the bobby cameo was uh, what the fuck was that? He didn't even know who sam and dean were so it's not like we got a brief touching reunion out of that. It was literally just a "shut the fuck up here is your bobby, satisfied?", and while I was all for killing cas and crowley since they are two characters who have ACTUALLY JUST BEEN DEW CLAWS for the past forever I was legitimately annoyed at their deaths. Mostly because Crowley got some much needed actual character development for the first time in about 3 seasons, and Cas had an interesting and potentially funny storyline in "raising a baby by himself". instead that all goes out the window, jack is born fully grown, gives us an "i'm going to fuck your day up" grin and that's it.

The boys being literally alone is a pretty fun touch I guess and that might actually entice me to peek at next season. I'm glad mary is gone and I hope that a major plot line of next season isn't "let's go to the alternate earth to get mary back- oops we fucked up and brought back lucifer but we also got bizarro bobby i guess?". Mary's exit wasn't good but it could have been worse lmao. Also killing rowena was nice, i mean I hate that rowena is dead but she was too fucking strong and was another character the brothers had in their back pocket to fix problems and make bad decisions that become plot points later.

Also someone at the CW really needs to fucking get this show either a proper budget, a way better SFX team, especially for practical stuff like fucking shoot outs and for the love of fucking god a fight choreographer and a director that know how to shoot fight scenes that don't suck. This season has had the absolute worst fights and the camera work has been abysmal. I had season 1 on as background noise the other day and those fights are kinetic as hell even with shittier SFX.

Honestly this show just needs to pick a clean and simple direction and stick with it. Trimming down the excess fat of side characters that can fix any problem is a fucking good start but I need to see that they don't just decide to make next season "let's bring everyone back from the dead!" before I can really stop being skeptical.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Cas and Crowley aren't going to be dead next season.

And thank god for that. Because they're part of what makes Supernatural the show it is. Fuck the show being just the brothers 13 years in.

Overall, season 12 was really good and one of the better post-season 5 years. The first half was shaky but the second half was great, topped off by an awesome final two episodes.

 

[B-Dubs]

Yea, there needs to be other characters around the brothers. Just Jody and the seasonal guys aren't going to be enough.

 

[DarkHeartedKill]

So I finally watched the two parter

Wow the madmen actually fucking did it. Next season might be the cleanest start we get for this show.

Lucifer and Mary are effectively gone, mary going away I called multiple times throughout this season so I'm glad I was right...at least for now.
Crowley is dead
Cas is dead

But honestly what a disappointing season lmao.

I'll say that one thing is for sure, jared and jensen really acted their heart out during this finale. Everything about the bunker in part 1 was fuckin gold, and dean reaching out to mary in her head was great.

The problems with this finale were evident in the fact that the BMoL story line was essentially just dropped lmao. Like straight up they just took that story line, wrapped it up asap, had that voice in the computer in case they ever want to come back to it one day (because fuck conclusions and tying up loose ends right? that's for competent writers like kripke). The fact that when dean got woken up from the psy-dream the first-episode-sam-torturing-british-chick (legitimately forgot her name) they were hauling around is dead because I guess she probably didn't want to be involved with season 13 despite the fact that she would have been a really fun character to have on the main squad.

Then when that got wrapped up the writers had to deal with the other story line, the mess of a lucifer-is-back-and-is-having-a-son story line. So the bobby cameo was uh, what the fuck was that? He didn't even know who sam and dean were so it's not like we got a brief touching reunion out of that. It was literally just a "shut the fuck up here is your bobby, satisfied?", and while I was all for killing cas and crowley since they are two characters who have ACTUALLY JUST BEEN DEW CLAWS for the past forever I was legitimately annoyed at their deaths. Mostly because Crowley got some much needed actual character development for the first time in about 3 seasons, and Cas had an interesting and potentially funny storyline in "raising a baby by himself". instead that all goes out the window, jack is born fully grown, gives us an "i'm going to fuck your day up" grin and that's it.

The boys being literally alone is a pretty fun touch I guess and that might actually entice me to peek at next season. I'm glad mary is gone and I hope that a major plot line of next season isn't "let's go to the alternate earth to get mary back- oops we fucked up and brought back lucifer but we also got bizarro bobby i guess?". Mary's exit wasn't good but it could have been worse lmao. Also killing rowena was nice, i mean I hate that rowena is dead but she was too fucking strong and was another character the brothers had in their back pocket to fix problems and make bad decisions that become plot points later.

Also someone at the CW really needs to fucking get this show either a proper budget, a way better SFX team, especially for practical stuff like fucking shoot outs and for the love of fucking god a fight choreographer and a director that know how to shoot fight scenes that don't suck. This season has had the absolute worst fights and the camera work has been abysmal. I had season 1 on as background noise the other day and those fights are kinetic as hell even with shittier SFX.

Honestly this show just needs to pick a clean and simple direction and stick with it. Trimming down the excess fat of side characters that can fix any problem is a fucking good start but I need to see that they don't just decide to make next season "let's bring everyone back from the dead!" before I can really stop being skeptical.

The MoL not being cut nicely was annoying and I hope that head BMoL lady and Ketch enjoy hell, which I wonder what it's like now? When Dean went there, there were chains and shit and he was tortured. Then when Crowley took over, souls waited in line for all eternity. Then when we saw Bobby there he was psychotically tortured by demons pretending to be Sam & Dean coming.

I was hoping it'd be like Gabriel not Bobby...I like Bobby and all, but we got plenty of him. We had him on Earth, in Hell, in Heaven, and now on Earth 3(Earth 2 is real world where Supernatural is a show I guess).

Yeah...I'm a little upset how Crowley got so much character development and Cas got killed off before finish his(at least let have him cared for the child a little bit...)

I don't think Jack was born fully born, he just ages very quickly. Wouldn't be surprised if he's an adult by like the third or fourth episode on season 13.

The shootouts was lousy, seemed fan made lol, it was so bad and the headshots were cringe worthy. They probably spent all their budget on the previous season with Amara and the Heavenly Solarbeam.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Bring them back as humans.

This is my hope. It eliminates the problem of Cas and Crowley being too OP but allows them to keep the characters and have them grow. Go full Buffy/Angel and have them living in the bunker. Would be tons of fun.

And if they do that with Cas, no backsies. This is it. Permanent. Human until the end of the series, hunting with the boys.

My two theories:

1) Jack brings Cas back but not Crowley -- until Dean pleads with him to.
2) ... But eventually we find out that Jack is actually

Spoiler

a reincarnated Azazel

.

 

[B-Dubs]

This is my hope. It eliminates the problem of Cas and Crowley being too OP but allows them to keep the characters and have them grow. Go full Buffy/Angel and have them living in the bunker. Would be tons of fun.

And if they do that with Cas, no backsies. This is it. Permanent. Human until the end of the series, hunting with the boys.

My two theories:

1) Jack brings Cas back but not Crowley -- until Dean pleads with him to.
2) ... But eventually we find out that Jack is actually

Spoiler

a reincarnated Azazel

.

Given what they're dealing with Chuck could wind up rezzing them so the tables aren't so slanted in one direction.

 

[Undead Fantasy]

This is my hope. It eliminates the problem of Cas and Crowley being too OP but allows them to keep the characters and have them grow. Go full Buffy/Angel and have them living in the bunker. Would be tons of fun.

And if they do that with Cas, no backsies. This is it. Permanent. Human until the end of the series, hunting with the boys.

My two theories:

1) Jack brings Cas back but not Crowley -- until Dean pleads with him to.
2) ... But eventually we find out that Jack is actually

Spoiler

a reincarnated Azazel

.

Yes. They need to do this. That way Crowley can come back and can't close the gates of hell. Cas living with the boys should be fun.

 

[DarkHeartedKill]

This is my hope. It eliminates the problem of Cas and Crowley being too OP but allows them to keep the characters and have them grow. Go full Buffy/Angel and have them living in the bunker. Would be tons of fun.

And if they do that with Cas, no backsies. This is it. Permanent. Human until the end of the series, hunting with the boys.

My two theories:

1) Jack brings Cas back but not Crowley -- until Dean pleads with him to.
2) ... But eventually we find out that Jack is actually

Spoiler

a reincarnated Azazel

.

Or better yet they get brought back and Cas and Crowley continue their hunting adventures lol

 

[ZeoVGM]

Jensen Ackles deserves an Emmy nomination for the first episode last night.

 

[Dio Brando]

Jensen Ackles deserves an Emmy nomination for the first episode last night.

the difference in acting between him and everyone else on the show has been increasingly absurd. im sure he's happy with Supernatural, but at times, i feel like he deserves so much more.

 

[ZeoVGM]

the difference in acting between him and everyone else on the show has been increasingly absurd. im sure he's happy with Supernatural, but at times, i feel like he deserves so much more.

I think the whole cast legitimately loves doing what they do. I'm sure they're starting to think about winding it down but the #SPNFamily hashtag is legit.

 

[Kevin]

The fact that Misha Collins and Mark Sheppard wanted fans to record their reaction of watching the last 10 minutes of the season finale leads me to believe that both actors will return for season 13. Otherwise I would say that would be a pretty mean thing to do if they are NOT actually planning on coming back.

My guess is either the nephilim will bring them back or maybe we will get the "alternative universe" versions of Castiel and Crowley back. Not sure how I would feel about new versions of these beloved characters personally but I don't think the actors are done with the show. Just my guess though. We will likely find out when they start filming season 13 in July.

 

[Joni]

Toni didn't even get a death scene? WTF

 

[strafer]

I love Misha but I hope he stays dead.

There's never a surprise on this show when they get ressurected all them time.

Look at how many times Dean and Sam have died.

 

[ronaldthump]

the difference in acting between him and everyone else on the show has been increasingly absurd. im sure he's happy with Supernatural, but at times, i feel like he deserves so much more.

its hardly acting as is, he gets a solid af paycheck - the show has crossed 100 episodes so it'll be sydincated forever and he'll get a perma-paycheck from the royalties. I can't say I think he's a great actor.

 

[family_guy]

They should bring back that powerful kid from one of the earlier seasons. He could basically do whatever he wanted.

 

[pitt_norton]

Cas and Crow stay dead please... I've snored through so many soap opera plots with those two since season 6 (have watched the show since season 1).

Maybe the show will bring back surprises???

 

[DarkHeartedKill]

its hardly acting as is, he gets a solid af paycheck - the show has crossed 100 episodes so it'll be sydincated forever and he'll get a perma-paycheck from the royalties. I can't say I think he's a great actor.

You don't think Jensen is a great actor? First time I heard someone say that lol. Jensen always pulls at my heart strings.

They should bring back that powerful kid from one of the earlier seasons. He could basically do whatever he wanted.

Jesse? He went off to wherever and we haven't seen any sign of him whatsoever. Like zero. Maybe now that the Nephilim is born Jesse will come back and have some duel lol. Jesse could do a lot of things, but I don't think he can resurrect people, let alone Angels/Demons that episode he was featured in, he was able to undue all damages except bring back the people that died iirc.

Cas and Crow stay dead please... I've snored through so many soap opera plots with those two since season 6 (have watched the show since season 1).

Maybe the show will bring back surprises???

Same. While I do like em, they started get ruined as time went by because the writers had no idea what to do with em. I liked how they had Crowley and Cas investigate together for some time though lol. I am glad that Crowley got an amazing character development though, that was a great way to end his character imo.

I love Misha but I hope he stays dead.

There's never a surprise on this show when they get ressurected all them time.

Look at how many times Dean and Sam have died.

Yup, same thought process here. What good is worrying about a character if it's always like "o look, I'M NOT DEAD!!!" Everytime Cas fought another Angel I was worried he'd die(even though he is a badass), everytime there was a MoL confrontation I was worried Cas would DIE! If he gets brought back AGAIN then I'd just sit there and be like,"meh...if he dies he'll just come back." Kinda ruins the vibe and connection to character. Dean & Sam I can understand being brought back because the show pretty much revolved around those two.

 

[Alex Stroud]

I think Crowley's death sticks. He got enough development this season, plus that brief goodbye to the Winchesters, so that gives me enough hope that the writers stick to their guns with him. Also, if I remember correctly, they've never resurrected a prominent demonic character on this series. Humans and angels, yes, but not demons. Starting with Crowley would be a terrible idea.

Castiel? No way in hell will they leave him dead. His death was rather abrupt, also I think they connected him with the Nephilim plot to give him a way back to the table. Plus, God has resurrected him three or four times at this point, so He's always an option.

 

[B-Dubs]

They should just bring them both back as humans. The boys need a larger cast around them to play off of, season specific characters who won't make it through aren't enough.

Crowley especially just took a really interesting turn with his revelation that he hates being King of Hell. Make him human like they teased a couple of seasons ago and run with it for a while.

Part of the problem with killing them off is it doesn't accomplish much at this point outside of providing shock value. At this point Sam and Dean are superhero-level hunters, they have been for a while, so nothing short of a world ending mega-threat is going to challenge them. Cas and Crowley aren't really that much more useful than they boys at this point, despite what the fanbase may think. Sam and Dean have a level of knowledge and experience that puts them far above the normal monster tier. Hell, they even have a plan to deal with Lucifer's son that they can execute in episode one of next season! Short of Cuthulu there's nothing they can't beat with what they already know.

 

[Undead Fantasy]

The fact that Misha Collins and Mark Sheppard wanted fans to record their reaction of watching the last 10 minutes of the season finale leads me to believe that both actors will return for season 13. Otherwise I would say that would be a pretty mean thing to do if they are NOT actually planning on coming back.

My guess is either the nephilim will bring them back or maybe we will get the "alternative universe" versions of Castiel and Crowley back. Not sure how I would feel about new versions of these beloved characters personally but I don't think the actors are done with the show. Just my guess though. We will likely find out when they start filming season 13 in July.

I rather them stay dead honestly.

Having said that, I want alternative Azazel. The original was barely in the show.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Misha confirmed on Twitter that "Cas has a future."

Here's hoping what was discussed earlier in the thread is true: Cas and Crowley are brought back by either Jack or Chuck but only as permanent humans until the end of the series. No more OP powers to get the boys out of trouble all the time but the characters stick around and get to grow.

Also, I want to throw out this bat shit crazy theory out there.

The last time we saw real Bobby was in season 10 when he helped break Metatron out of Heaven. The last scene we saw him in had Heaven's agents showing up, clearly ready to punish him. In season 11, it was just a flashback episode and this year, alt-Bobby. So fans have been waiting a long time to find out what happened with him.

My thought is that, at some point, Heaven has turned Bobby into an angel. This means he can now only possess other people and can no longer appear as Bobby anymore.

... Until they bring alt-Bobby into the regular universe and angel-Bobby possesses him.

 

[Septimus Prime]

I really, really don't want to see Cas or Crowley as humans. I'd much prefer they be alt-world versions that are still powerful but just not necessarily allied with Sam and Dean.

 

[ZeoVGM]

I really, really don't want to see Cas or Crowley as humans. I'd much prefer they be alt-world versions that are still powerful but just not necessarily allied with Sam and Dean.

The fanbase would rightfully rage at that. Kill them off only to replace them with alternate reality versions? Lame.

Making them human would solve the OP problem and allow the characters we already know to grow and change.

 

[Septimus Prime]

The fanbase would rightfully rage at that. Kill them off only to replace them with alternate reality versions? Lame.

Making them human would solve the OP problem and allow the characters we already know to grow and change.

Here's the thing: fuck the fanbase. They are the problem.

And, honestly, fuck what I think, too. They should do what they think would be the most compelling.

But my personal opinion is that I really, really don't want to see human Cas or Crowley. It's gotten to the point where, over the years, I really don't even enjoy seeing them at all now because they are so different from what the characters they were. Personally, I feel the same way about all angels and demons on this show now.

 

[riotous]

I really could do without Cas entirely personally; they've already done Cas w/ powers, Cas w/o powers, Cas w/ half powers and just about everything in between with his variations in the amount of grace he has. Don't get me wrong I love the legacy of the character but he's about as one note as it gets; I don't think they'll ever top the diaper/everybody poops scene for that dry comedy either lol, why not go out on a high (brown) note?

I think Crowley is more interesting and entertaining; and there's a lot more room to play w/ the character.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

Trying to get back into this after stalling out midway through S1 a while back.
Is there a good guide for the must watch episodes and such?

 

[Joni]

Trying to get back into this after stalling out midway through S1 a while back.
Is there a good guide for the must watch episodes and such?

Season 1-5. Then you have a nice tidy story.

 

[Septimus Prime]

Trying to get back into this after stalling out midway through S1 a while back.
Is there a good guide for the must watch episodes and such?

S1-S5, then the season premieres and finales of 6-10, then all of 11 and 12.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

Thank you.

 

[Septimus Prime]

Oh, you might need to watch the mid-season finales, too. Some of the crap seasons are two arcs.

 

[Media]

S1-S5, then the season premieres and finales of 6-10, then all of 11 and 12.

I would add Man Who Would Be King to season six, it's pretty key.

 

[Undead Fantasy]

YESSSSS.

Spoilers!

 

[Joni]

I would add Man Who Would Be King to season six, it's pretty key.

And Fan Fiction.

 

[CryptiK]

YESSSSS.

Spoilers!

lmao

 

[cartoon_soldier]

YESSSSS.

Spoilers!

 

[Kevin]

YESSSSS.

Spoilers!

Can you recap the details of whats in the video please?

 

[sturmdogg]

LOL at Jared realizing what he just said, and Jensen trying to get his buddy out of it.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Can you recap the details of whats in the video please?

Basically

"We had to go to the studio to do [something], me, Jensen, and Misha"

 

[-Deimos]

Can you recap the details of whats in the video please?

 

[cr0w]

YESSSSS.

Spoilers!

lol the poor guy. The slow realization is great.

 

[Undead Fantasy]

Now we just need Crowley back and we're good.