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[numble]

If they think that costs and other associated burdens are holding back poor and minorities from voting, they should go door to door and help them get registered, or some anonymous donor can start a foudnation to fund voter registration for poor people.

But people who are not citizens should absolutely not be allowed to vote under any circumstances, and not having a voter ID law to enforce this because of political correctness is madness.

Voter registration already does that.

This is not a citizenship enforcement, because it allows ID that is not evidence of citizenship (driver's license and gun license are not evidence of citizenship, non-citizens can get those). A Native American Tribal ID is evidence of citizenship, but isn't accepted. Technically, some non-citizen nationals can obtain a US passport, which is accepted as well. It will only be clear on page 24 of the passport that the holder is not a citizen.

 

[Squirrel Killer]

If you really care about voting, make an effort about it. I'm sure someone can save a few dollars for an ID within one year by being more frugal.

IANAL, but the SCOTUS has decided that basically any cost required to get a voter ID card, even as low as a $1, constitutes a poll tax, which is why most states that have tried to implement a voter ID card include a free option. If the $6 minimum is TX's lowest cost option, TX appears to be an outlier in this, and it should fail to meet constitutional muster pretty clearly. Time, however, is generally not seen as a poll tax. Rather, the court sees it as part of the cost of exercising your right while allowing the state to protect its legitimate (if unnecessary) interest in preventing fraud.

 

[jond76]

There is no mandatory national ID in the US.
If you move to Texas, you can do everything in life, including drive, open a bank account, without a Texas ID. A Texas ID isn't proof of citizenship anyway. They will accept a Texas concealed gun's license, this isn't proof of citizenship anyway.
They will not accept another state's ID to vote.
They will not accept a state-issue student ID card.
They will not accept a Department of Veteran's Affairs ID card, which you need to be a citizen to get.
They will not accept a Native American Tribal ID card, which you need to be a citizen to get.

You need to get a certified copy of your birth certificate (and this is another issue if you were born outside of Texas) to the Department of Public Safety to get an eligible Texas voter ID. About 400,000 Texans live 1.5 hours or more away from a DPS. You do not need this ID to do anything else.

You're wrong here. If you move to Texas and wish to continue to drive, you have 90 days from when you establish residency to acquire a Texas DL. After that it's a class C misdemeanor.

 

[Kazerei]

If they think that costs and other associated burdens are holding back poor and minorities from voting, they should go door to door and help them get registered, or some anonymous donor can start a foudnation to fund voter registration for poor people.

But people who are not citizens should absolutely not be allowed to vote under any circumstances, and not having a voter ID law to enforce this because of political correctness is madness.

Voter ID laws already existed before this. It's not like Texas elections were a free-for-all where anyone could walk in and submit a ballot. What happened is new laws were introduced that are probably the strictest in the US. And what for? Not to combat voter fraud, but to disenfranchise certain demographics.

You can compare this archived page to its current version to see some of the changes.
https://web.archive.org/web/2010082...ate.tx.us/elections/pamphlets/largepamp.shtml

Before you could use a driver's license from another state for the purposes of identification, even if it was expired. Now it has to be a Texas driver's license and can't be more than 60 days expired. Before you could use a utility bill, bank statement, paystub, government document, etc. Now there's only a list of 7 eligible pieces of government-issued photo ID, not all of which are relevant to everyone.

 

[numble]

You're wrong here. If you move to Texas and wish to continue to drive, you have 90 days from when you establish residency to acquire a Texas DL. After that it's a class C misdemeanor.

I'm not wrong. It is still valid to drive. Especially if you're military or related to military. In any case there is also a fine for not keeping your address up to date, but this is seldom enforced.

 

[poppabk]

In many states in the US (and in my state of Oregon in specific) you can register to vote without an ID so long as you possess a Social Security Number, something that is issued to you at birth / gaining citizenship. So requiring an ID after the fact makes no sense. You've already proven your right to vote, the ID requirement is an unnecessary step for a problem that doesn't exist.

I have had a SSN for over 10 years, I am not eligible to vote.

 

[funkypie]

The lack of perspective is astounding.

I've read the thread and I don't buy into the bullshit that requiring an ID is racist, especially when it costs $25.

The lack of far reaching people will go to, to claim racism is hilarious.

If Texas is doing this to stop illegals voting then that is fine. Getting ID to vote my be inconvenient but it is a far cry from racism.

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

I've read the thread and I don't buy into the bullshit that requiring an ID is racist, especially when it costs $25.

The lack of far reaching people will go to, to claim racism is hilarious.

If Texas is doing this to stop illegals voting then that is fine. Getting ID to vote my be inconvenient but it is a far cry from racism.

I think it hearkens back to the old days when there were poll taxes, tests, etc for voting to keep black Americans from voting. Some people consider the ID to be a poll tax.

But with that said, I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other. Though, I do think the amount of money used to fight the ID laws, activism, etc, would be better used to just get the people who need the ID their IDs.

 

[Link]

I've read the thread and I don't buy into the bullshit that requiring an ID is racist, especially when it costs $25.

The lack of far reaching people will go to, to claim racism is hilarious.

If Texas is doing this to stop illegals voting then that is fine. Getting ID to vote my be inconvenient but it is a far cry from racism.

Except that's not why they're doing it. You're obviously not familiar with voter registration. Good to see you read the thread though.

 

[NimbusD]

I've read the thread and I don't buy into the bullshit that requiring an ID is racist, especially when it costs $25.

The lack of far reaching people will go to, to claim racism is hilarious.

If Texas is doing this to stop illegals voting then that is fine. Getting ID to vote my be inconvenient but it is a far cry from racism.

I think it certainly has racist effects, and is definitely done to disenfranchise voters of low means who are more likely to vote liberal. That said, I can see how people throwing around racist accusations before properly explaining the situation can lead people to be thrown off and claim that people are throwing a race card that doesn't exist. So I'll give you that, I guess...

But that anyone can think that requiring people to pay a single cent of money to the government in order for the 'privilege' to vote is disgusting and short sighted.

 

[davepoobond]

I've read the thread and I don't buy into the bullshit that requiring an ID is racist, especially when it costs $25.

The lack of far reaching people will go to, to claim racism is hilarious.

If Texas is doing this to stop illegals voting then that is fine. Getting ID to vote my be inconvenient but it is a far cry from racism.

How many more legal voters do you think this will stop than illegal voters?

The fact is that people who should be allowed to vote will be prevented from voting because of arbitrary standards set. You don't even have to bring who this law targets based on race to know that it is already bullshit.

How many illegal voters have even voted, and who are they exactly voting as? Who has reported that someone has voted as them? There is only one ballot for each person that has registered.

 

[Sobriquet]

I've read the thread and I don't buy into the bullshit that requiring an ID is racist, especially when it costs $25.

The lack of far reaching people will go to, to claim racism is hilarious.

If Texas is doing this to stop illegals voting then that is fine. Getting ID to vote my be inconvenient but it is a far cry from racism.

How about you read the thread? You might learn something.

 

[Wilsongt]

I've read the thread and I don't buy into the bullshit that requiring an ID is racist, especially when it costs $25.

The lack of far reaching people will go to, to claim racism is hilarious.

If Texas is doing this to stop illegals voting then that is fine. Getting ID to vote my be inconvenient but it is a far cry from racism.

I think you need to look into things a little bit more before saying things of this nature. You may have read the thread, but you're not comprehending what has been stated multiple times.

None of these calls for voting laws or cries of voting fraud were spouted nearly as much when the GOP was in office (except for 2000 in Florida). This is clearly a tactic to allow a certain group of people to say in power by limiting others' ability to vote.

 

[Hilbert]

I have had a SSN for over 10 years, I am not eligible to vote.

A SS number doesn't give you the right to vote, but typically you can register to vote with one, and then they look it up, and make sure you are eligible to vote.

Everyone that can vote has a SS number. Not everyone with a SS number can vote.

 

[Kodeman]

I has always seemed odd to me that you don't need to present ID to vote.

 

[boiled goose]

People have yet to explain why ssn# is not enough. You already need it to register. Why do you need to add another id on top?

There is no poll voter fraud.

 

[temesgen77]

Can someone please explain to me, (as an outsider), why these laws are so bad? I don't really comprehend how showing ID before you vote can someone disproportionately affect minorities unless those minorities just don't possess any form of valid ID? I'm not trying to be coy, I'm coming from a place of ignorance.

Voter fraud is virtually non-existent in the US, these laws are put in place to create barriers and limit voter turn out.

Its more than a bit ironic and hypocritical that the party which says its for less regulation is always looking for ways to add regulations to voting in the name of fighting something which does not exist in any way that materially impacts the results of elections.

And to be clear here, we're not just talking about presenting an ID, people submitting voter registrations on the wrong weight of paper for example get thrown out, legally registered voters get purged and on and on. On the surface it sounds like a small detail but these tactics are used to limit peoples access to the polls in material ways.

Edit:

The tactic is used among other reasons because liberals tend to better at getting out the vote prior to an election but without proper ID these would-be voters can't influence an election. As someone already pointed out getting the proper forms can take time which is exactly what the legislator is hoping for - running out the clock.

 

[fse]

eh I see nothing wrong with this.

 

[AndyD]

People have yet to explain why ssn# is not enough. You already need it to register. Why do you need to add another id on top?

There is no poll voter fraud.

I guess registration is not the same as ID. As in one allows you onto the rolls months or even years prior to the actual voting date. The other identifies you as the person you say you are on the day of the vote. But this theory breaks in that not all accepted forms have pictures on them... and some super valid forms (other state IDs) with pictures are not accepted.

I have no issues with voter ID and voter registration schemes as long as they are done well in advance. Give people a year and no $ cost to get up to date and there would be far less outcry.

My biggest peeve is limited voting hours (workday) and no holiday on voting day.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Since apparently I have to quote myself for each new page:

"These people wouldn't have voted anyway," is not a good excuse for these laws. There are several people who would have voted, but the process of getting an ID is too difficult, so they become less inclined to do so. Election laws should be encouraging as many people as possible to vote, because the US has appalling turnouts for elections, and these laws do the exact opposite of that.

And since people apparently forget about earlier points unless they get brought up every other post,

Jesus Christ, I feel like for threads like this, any time you try to post a reply, you should be forced to look at select posts from the thread.

As has already been stated so many times, the US does not offer free IDs to everyone, and you do not need an ID for many facets of life, meaning that someone would have to go out of his or her way to get a valid ID. To get a valid ID, you often need other official documents, which may take money and a lot of time to get. And the place where you get IDs can make the process very hard in poor and minority neighborhoods, as shown in my old post that people have thankfully already quoted. And the reason why the ID laws are so complicated and restrictive, seemingly designed to prevent people from voting, is because, yes, they are designed to prevent people from voting!

People asking why voter ID is such a bad thing need to remember that this is a specific implementation that has the following factors:
* You can only get valid IDs at certain places, such as DMVs.
* There are intentionally few DMVs in areas with a lot of poor people and minorities, and those DMVs tend to be understaffed and have short working hours, often being closed on weekends.
* The times when these DMVs are open tend to overlap with when people are working, so in order to register, people would have to skip work for a day, which could deprive them of much needed pay or even get them fired.
* Lines at these DMVs can be very long, with wait times up to 4-6 hours.
* $25 to register may not seem like a lot, but it's a huge investment if that's your weekly food budget.

It's all well and good to say that voter ID laws would be fine if they were state-funded and provided to everyone, but they aren't. The voter ID laws that this topic are about are deliberately designed to prevent poor and minority voters from voting, thus netting less votes for Democrats.

 

[DarthWoo]

I've read the thread and I don't buy into the bullshit that requiring an ID is racist, especially when it costs $25.

The lack of far reaching people will go to, to claim racism is hilarious.

If Texas is doing this to stop illegals voting then that is fine. Getting ID to vote my be inconvenient but it is a far cry from racism.

The poll tax from 1964 was about $1.50. Adjusted for inflation, that's $12, a relative bargain compared to $25. Were the original poll taxes therefore not racist in intent by your logic?

 

[Sobriquet]

eh I see nothing wrong with this.

Go on...

 

[wildfire]

It's literally a poll tax. I don't understand how people are supporting a poll tax.

Most (I hope) of them aren't Americans.

People have yet to explain why ssn# is not enough. You already need it to register. Why do you need to add another id on top?

There is no poll voter fraud.

There is actually but it's so miniscule it's a farce for anyone who actually pays attention to American politics.

 

[poppabk]

How do they determine if voter fraud is miniscule?
I can't help thinking that the problem isn't voter ID laws but that it is so difficult to get an official ID.

 

[Hilbert]

How do they determine if voter fraud is miniscule?
I can't help thinking that the problem isn't voter ID laws but that it is so difficult to get an official ID.

Since all this voter ID stuff started up, people have been searching for voter fraud, and nothing has come up. Even conceptually, the effort needed to commit voter fraud on an influential level, from the voting position is exceedingly difficult.

Also, it isn't a coincidence that voter ID laws coincide with cutbacks that make getting an ID more difficult. But at the core the problem IS the voter ID laws, since they address a non-existent problem, and we have never needed them before, and we don't make judgments on how people live their lives or what priorities they have and determine whether or not we think they should be able to vote. EVERY citizen should be able to vote.

 

[Squirrel Killer]

How do they determine if voter fraud is miniscule?

1. When they look for fraud for 2 years, they only find 117 possible cases, lay charges in 27, and get 6 convictions out of a million and and half votes.
2. In person voter fraud is so inefficient, it's not worth doing if you're trying to steal an election.

 

[Stinkles]

If they think that costs and other associated burdens are holding back poor and minorities from voting, they should go door to door and help them get registered, or some anonymous donor can start a foudnation to fund voter registration for poor people.

But people who are not citizens should absolutely not be allowed to vote under any circumstances, and not having a voter ID law to enforce this because of political correctness is madness.

How many people do you know with a crippling fear of dogs go and find a PitBull to punch every year?

You ignorant thoughtless nimrod.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

The more the Republicans try to prevent Democrats from voting, the more Democrats there will be to overwhelm the shrinking Republican base.

 

[Htown]

If they think that costs and other associated burdens are holding back poor and minorities from voting, they should go door to door and help them get registered, or some anonymous donor can start a foudnation to fund voter registration for poor people.

You don't get to disenfranchise people and then say "well if they really cared they'd find a way around it".

But people who are not citizens should absolutely not be allowed to vote under any circumstances, and not having a voter ID law to enforce this because of political correctness is madness.

They aren't allowed to vote. You realize you already have to register to vote, right?

 

[spectral_method]

Thank you based Texas.

 

[Sobriquet]

Thank you based Texas.

Yeah, unconstitutionally blocking legal citizens from voting is a great thing. :|

 

[Hilbert]

You don't get to disenfranchise people and then say "well if they really cared they'd find a way around it".



They aren't allowed to vote. You realize you already have to register to vote, right?

I feel like these threads need a detailed description in the OP about how voter registration works and voting is done. Someone should write it up, and then everytime a voter ID thread appears it is just a copy and paste inclusion.

 

[Squirrel Killer]

I feel like these threads need a detailed description in the OP about how voter registration works and voting is done. Someone should write it up, and then everytime a voter ID thread appears it is just a copy and paste inclusion.

They also need a explanation of the case history in question so people can figure out why the SCOTUS "found" for voter ID in this case and against it in the WI case.

 

[AndyD]

I feel like these threads need a detailed description in the OP about how voter registration works and voting is done. Someone should write it up, and then everytime a voter ID thread appears it is just a copy and paste inclusion.

They also need a explanation of the case history in question so people can figure out why the SCOTUS "found" for voter ID in this case and against it in the WI case.

I thought someone tried it, but it was still ignored. In any case there's also variety from state to state or location to location so it's a massive undertaking.